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McDonalds MMORPGs
pharazonic
Member Posts: 860
I've been wondering something... perhaps those of us looking for a rich, fulfilling experience are looking in vain. Given the massive appeal of games like SWTOR, and the fact that developers churn out "WoW clones" with none of WoW's charm, maybe it is us MMORPGers who are looking for that second, living, WORLD who are looking for something that will never come to be.
Is that true? Is the industry really shifting in that direction where players want a standard, mass-produced chain experience? Where the next move is predictable and packaged?
Are players tiring of games that requires them to comit on multiple levels rather than just a superficial one?
Now, this isnt a trend isolated to MMOs. Take RPGs for instance. In a game called Arcanum, you had nigh limitless possibilities but the game did require a tonne of investment. Not that the player lost anything; it was an CRPG after all so people didn't need to play for hours on end. Fast forward to now... "Dragon Age 2" is the standard of CRPG that people willingly settle for.
So back to MMOs: once, the development focus of MMOs was to create parallel worlds; growing up, I remember all the stories, comics, theories and cartoons about "virtual reality". In the mid 2000s, we had Second Life. Not an MMORPG but a definite boon to "virtual reality". Then hop to now, and people are rabid over games like SWTOR that offer a cardboard experience: pretty on the surface, but requires no investment from the player. Hands are held, people are lead by the nose and all that is chalked up to a "great immersive experience". Well how can that be the case; immersion and roleplay has to come from within; it's not something that one can slap on externally.
To feel a living world, the world must have life of it's own.
Is this what the market really wants? A picture-book game?
NB. Let's keep sandbox and themepark out of it... those terms only limit our thinking and discussion.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Comments
Some of us have just accepted the fact that it's never going to happen, and have decided to enjoy the games being made for what they are, instead of bitching about what they aren't.
Oh, and by the way....even back in teh days of PnP RPGs, a shitty GM could ruin your immersion VERY quickly, no matter how much you tried to bring it from "within".
SWTOR is like playing a RPG with a good GM, who can tell a good story, and really draw you into the experience.
Kinda like watching a movie, vs pretending your watching one
Yup, like a real good book. I'd rather read a good book then try to write my own most of the time.
So you're basically going to settle because you think there is nothing better?
That's kind of sad.
And no one is bitching; I was just randomly musing things; if you're looking to troll or start a fight, do it elsewhere.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Bewbies make me stoopid. Um a victim
Kind of sad? No I think it is entirely proper.
If the market is not producing the type of game you want, you have 2 options. Play or don't play. While doing those 2 options you have three more options, while doing that you can bitch and whine, do nothing or engage in constructive feedback.
If you happen to enjoy anything about "newer" games than playing while engage in constructive feedback when appropriate is be far the best choice.
Venge
Again, who said anything about bitching or whining? Honestly, are people tonight bristling for a forum fight or what?
Not like I am playing these games (that I dislike/might dislike), only observing the lack of demand for better games.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I never stated nor implied you were bitching/whining.
And "better games" is entirely subjective. I would argue there is a great demand for better games. Games released in the last 5 years typically have much much more content and are far far more stable than games released of yesteryear. Eve, Istaria, EQ, Shadowbane... all released with horrible horrible bugs, crashes, bad coding... these were slowly fixed over time.
Also newer games have removed a lot of the unnecessary timesinks that older games were riddled with. True they have dropped some things that some players liked.
But in the end - better is subjective.
Venge
Gee, I don't know what possible reason anyone would have for being aggressive towards someone who may be trashing a game they are looking forward to by calling it a "cardboard experience," and then calling them sad because they "settled."
You could have easily asked this same question without personally calling out people that happen to enjoy SWTOR, and probably gotten a decent discussion going about it. But you chose the low road, so you get what you deserve.
i for one love tor. I had a blast. I have never been so immersed in a game i played. Dont get me wrong i loved wow adn still do but tor is much more fun in my opinion
Maybe im blinded by the fact im playing in star wars univers. Or maybe i let the fact that companions give this game a feel that is unique. Maybe its the story that i cant get enough of. I dont know why but the things that are similar to other rpgs console or mmos dont bother me
All i ever want is a fun game that i enjoy playing. Im not looking for a reinvetion of the mmo wheel. I dont want fps or fighter mechanics in my rpgs. I want rpg mechanics.
AI enjoy a good fps game as well as i can and same with fighters. that said i perfer rpgs for a reason. i love rpgs so much more then fps or fighter games. The only games i like as much as rpgs is my sports games like madden and college football.
But if u are gonna insult the people who like these games expect them to fight back and insult u back. u dont have to like tor i am not saying that at all.
Everyone likes there own games. I hope somoene eventually makes taht game u crave but until them find a game u enjoy have fun in and play it .
Thats all that matters to me.
It does NO GOOD to "demand" anything. You will be ignored, and gaming companies will still make the games that THEY want to make.
I've played so many MMORPGs that I've literally lost count of them all, searching for that old-school virtual world feeling. It is not out there, and it's not on the horizon.
So, I have a choice....I can post on forums like this and cry about it, or I can deal with it and enjoy a game for what it is.
I'm not "settling".....SWTOR (for example) is a damn good game. The kind of game I was looking for doesn't exist, so I will play another kind of game and have fun.
It's one thing to not be interested in some particular game, whether WoW or SWTOR or whatever. But there are a lot of games out there that aren't remotely similar to WoW. If you hate hand-holding, then go play a game that doesn't do it. It's not really that hard to figure that out, is it?
Of COURSE games now are more polished and far more stable. When EQ/UO, etc began..the internet itself was still in it's infancy. Hell, I was playing EQ on dial-up and cable internet was just being heard of. UO/EQ, etc were among the first MMORPG's, so yeah...they were crude, because they were brand new and still in a sort of experimentation state as far as what worked.
But I disagree mainly with there being more content in today's games, mainly if speaking of MMORPG's. Nearly every MMO on the market today you can reach cap and see most of the content in a month, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. But still far too quick and you don't even have to be hardcore to do this.
So it makes you wonder..is it simply that today's MMO's are made far too easy to appease the Gimme it now crowd that is now the majority? Or that there isn't as much content in these MMO's as people seem to think there is?
And again, ALL MMO's have timesinks. Some just disguise them better than others is all.
Better is subjective. What is better for you could be crap for others. Me personally i can't stand games like UO, EQ anymore. Back when i was in college it was fun. bot not any more. I am perfectly happy with what i have and i will be looking forward to all the new releases in 2012 and beyond.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I agree with this. But I also think SWTOR is more challenging and less grindy than many other popular games, (story aside).
(I waited years (decade) for a Fallout 3, was it perfect? hell no. Did I still enjoy it? yeah, but New Vegas was better. Live and learn.)
You have a small market, then a company sees with a few modificatons and making the product more accessible and easier they can attract people that enjoy that kind of thing, which are the majority (Bell curve). Then that new people settels in and they become a big majority. Then the companies say that's what the market wants. This happens with TV and music and pretty much everything.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
McDonalds should sue. Most modern MMORPGs have pirated their concept.
Exactly what onthestick said, "better" is totally a matter of personal opinion, and it blows my mind when people like the OP never stop to think that "gee, maybe they are making games the way they are because MOST people enjoy them and WANT those types of games". You can't please everyone, and of course the minority who are never satisfied will be the most vocal. I want personal hover vehicles that run on skittles, but that doesn't mean I'm going to boycott the auto industry.
It's not like you are doing anything too except complaining.
I just take the game for what they are. And quite honestly nothing on the market interest me. Im' still playing Atlantica Online after so long.(tryign to get out and find a more enjoyable game for me which I can't).
Devs make games to make money.
It basically comes down to this: if you go to a restaurant, do you order the dish you've never tried, or do you order something you're familiar with?
With the first option, you might get lucky and love it, or you may hate it, while the second option might not be the greatest meal, but you know you're at least getting your money's worth. Unless you're jaded and burned out on the "familiar", in which case you should probably register in the mmorpg.com forums.
Unfortunately for sandbox lovers, the majority of people are more comfortable ordering hamburgers than a gourmet dish they're not familiar with. Avoiding risks is human nature.
Actually, I always attempt to try a new dish when I eat at a restaurant. There is an inherent value in broadening horizons. Even if I dislike the taste, the inherent value of trying something new may very well override the negative value attached to what I perceive to be bad taste.
Edit:
There are two conflicting aspects of human nature in your example:
1. Familiarity yields comfort.
2. Variation stimulates.
99% of the new releases (Skyrim for example) are sausage fest reproduction f old formulas and they are crap.
The reason the industry trends htis way is because game developers need to manage their finances and basically, no one likes to take new risks. This means that the game industry is basically full of idiots with no vision or understanding of whata good game is. So ifyou know what is a good game and can make it, you will be super rich. Like me.