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What is the obsession with sub cost?

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  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716

    Originally posted by echolynfan



    LOL - it's not arrogance - it's fact. $15 is NOTHING for a months entertainment. Now - because so many gaming companies are going F2P many people feel like the subscription model is unfair or a scam. If you can only play an MMO for one day a week I can see where playing a F2P game would make more sense.

    Bottom line: 15 dollars a month is not much money in the greater scheme of things - it's not. And I still haven't seen any F2P games that come close in quality and service as a P2P game.

     

    ... but you fairly consistently see B2P (Buy to play) games that have levels of quality and money invested in making them that exceeds your average P2P MMO.  Games with tons of replay value.

    If GW2 comes out with the B2P model and turns out to be as good, or superior to your average P2P game, using a pricing model that ends up costing the consumer more, is $15 dollars a month still a bargain?

    It's irrelevant that '15 dollars a month is cheap'.  Just because you CAN pay something doesn't mean you should.

    I could afford to pay an extra dollar every time I eat, but that doesn't mean I'd WANT to.

    You talk about capitalism in your next post... it's the job of the consumer to demand as low of a price as they can get while still getting suitable service.  If I can get the same service or better for cheaper, then why WOULDN'T I demand that?

    Even if nobody is going to oblige them, consumers should still want to pay less.  If consumers all went around wanting to pay more, and never second guessing listed prices, that would really totally fuck up capitalism. :P

  • oubersoubers Member UncommonPosts: 855

    must agree with the OP...people all buy iphones and ipads.....but a 15 bucks a month to play a game is too much??

    RLY??

    Dont be cheap.....buy one less cellphone (read iphone) and you got the budget to play your favorite 15 bucks a month MMO for about 3 YEARS.....(600€ : 15 = 40 months).

    lolz :)

     

    image
  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716

    Originally posted by oubers

    must agree with the OP...people all buy iphones and ipads.....but a 15 bucks a month to play a game is too much??

    RLY??

    Dont be cheap.....buy one less cellphone (read iphone) and you got the budget to play your favorite 15 bucks a month MMO for about 3 YEARS.....(600€ : 15 = 40 months).

    lolz :)

     

    A recent poll of teens showed that apparently the majority of them (For this poll anyway) would rather have a smartphone than a car.

    Yes.  That's right.  I said they'd rather have a smartphone than a car.

    Pretty crazy, huh?

    I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but I'd rather have my phone than an MMO for three years.  Just saying.  I mean, it's a PHONE.  You can do so much with it.  Of course, I'm obviously not as addicted to MMOs as some of the other people on this site. :)

    I don't think they're so much more amazing than other games that I feel a huge urge to pay an extra 15 dollars a month just to experience the bliss.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by oubers

    must agree with the OP...people all buy iphones and ipads.....but a 15 bucks a month to play a game is too much??

    RLY??

    Dont be cheap.....buy one less cellphone (read iphone) and you got the budget to play your favorite 15 bucks a month MMO for about 3 YEARS.....(600€ : 15 = 40 months).

    lolz :)

     

    Oh noes - can't do that! I mus haz my iPhones and iPads at all costs!!!!

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • arrecksarrecks Member Posts: 17

     

    I completely agree with the quality difference between games that are P2P straight out the door and F2P games. Then there's the community difference (there is INDEED a difference between players with and without 15$ monthly disposable income). 

    Meowhead is being a pretentious Mill utilitarian with his "higher pleasures." Stealthbr obviously knows his microeconomics. Superfluous is a possible communist who doesn't understand the term sustained income. Echolyfan outlines the economic disparity between MMO players, but makes a valid point and I'm going to build on it. At Caesar's Palace, there are 10$ min craps tables. If further explanation is needed then.... herp derp.

    People don't like to sacrifice things, so they just like to complain and moan, when in reality, not going to Taco Bell or cutting back on cigarettes can easily make up for that monthly 15$. When I was 15, I afforded to play SWG by not eating school lunch, and collecting at least 2-3$ in change weekly. My costs were not eating school burritos and tater tots and my dignity for bending over to pick up change off the ground, my benefit from that was SWG. 

    To make things even more ridiculous, 15$ = 1-3 packs of cigarettes (depending on location), 15 chicken sandwiches, 15 slim jims, 15 hot cheetos, 2-3 fast food meals, 1-3 alcoholic beverages at a bar (depending on location), 50 chicken mcnuggets and 2 large drinks, 30 wings at buffalo wild wings on tuesdays, 3 12-packs of soda. 

    Then there's the people who can't afford 15$ straight out and complain about it. That's like me complaining how I can't afford a Maserati and how I can't afford the high octane gasoline it needs.


  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    @ WSIMike

    There are two types of costs when it comes to an MMO, there's development costs and ongoing/maintenance/server costs.

    Ongoing costs are really a small fraction of development costs.  We can tell from NCSoft's quarterly reports where things like rent and bandwidth are mere footnotes in the "Other" category.  I know those aren't the only expenses, but compared to the cost of paying hundreds of developers and artists for 5 years or so to make the game in the first place, those are pretty cheap. 

    If ongoing costs were that expensive, F2P games couldn't really exist.  You're attracting a larger number of players, and even though some of those players are going to pay $50 a month, the vast majority will pay nothing.  It might end up only working out to $1-2 per player per month. 

    As I see it, you get money from investors or a parent company and that pays for development which is then hopefully paid back (with profit) by the things you develop.  If a company is making single player games, they just make another game.  If you're making a subscription MMO, you pay your developers to make periodic updates with the money from subscriptions.  If you're a B2P MMO, you make voluntary expansions.

    I don't really think the comparison to other forms of entertainment is all that valid.  Yes, eating dinner out is expensive, but the restaurant has major expenses like rent, staff, a perishable product as well as a ton of competition.  Restaurants are lucky to make a 4% profit.  Going to the movies is expensive, but it's also not nearly the most cost effective way to get that product.  You can go to a Redbox and get a movie for $1, and that expense doesn't scale up when the whole family watches.

    My objection to the subscription model is largely based on principle.  As I said in my earlier post, I don't think there's a correlation between the total amount paid and what people are getting.  I think it also limits players options about what they can choose to play.  That's why I support the B2P model.  I'm not saying these companies shouldn't make a profit, but we as consumers can demand more. 

     

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • stealthbrstealthbr Member UncommonPosts: 1,054

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    That is not the correct question. What you need to consider is how much money a company is investing in the game, what their target audience is, and what their desired profits are. Only that will determine if companies are being fair in asking for a subscription.

    If you think companies should only sell their products to get enough money to maintain their services running, then you're absolutely delusional. If you think companies that invest large amounts of money on a product, like EA did with SWTOR, should risk not breaking-even by not having subscriptions, then you are again absolutely delusional. If you think companies trying to take over the subscriber-based market will do so without using a subscription-based model, then you are absolutely delusional.

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Paying for sub fees and then expansion boxes is like paying your monthly bill for HBO and then every time a new season of Game of Thrones comes you have to pay another $40-$60 on top of that. I don't have a problem with paying a sub fee but the sub fee is overpriced when you compare it to costs of maintenace. If the Expansions were covered by the $15 a month fee that is acceptable.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO


    Originally posted by echolynfan

    I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.

    And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.

    Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.

    Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?

     

    You need to add that sub to whatever game(s) a player is already paying for.  It's not a single 15 bucks is 15x the number of sub games one owns.  Not to mention a family that plays mmo's together (my wife and two sons both play).  That's $15x4.  It adds up.



    And how much would it cost you to take your family out for one meal and a movie? One night of entertainment would cost you more than a months worth of an MMO. It's much cheaper for your family to all play MMO's than it is to take them out.

    When I take my family to the movies or dinner, I don't pay $60 up front before I step into either one. MMO's charge you for the box (anywhere from 40-60 depending on the game) + the monthly fees (in some cases).

     

    So for my wife and son and myself its, as they other poster metnioned $15 x 3 in my case or $15 x 4 in his case.  Plus the box cost of $60 x 3 or x 4. So for a family of 3 a year's woth of a pay MMO costs you $720 for the first year, and $540 a year after, and once we decide to stop playing it we have nothing to show for it (as opposed to say the ipad example where it is a physical item)

    You are also paying that monthly fee regardless of if you login to play or not, or how much time you put in. So if you put in dozens and dozens of hours it might be worth it to some. If you put in just a few hours a month or get busy at work and don't have login at all, you are still paying that fee.

    If I don't go to the movies or to dinner (IE use either service), they don't charge me (just to use your example).

    I've been on that train, in my life I must have spent thousands of dollars for myself, wife and now teenager on a bunch of diffrerent MMO games. But as I said previous, I dont see where I am getting $15 a month of value over what I currently get in our FTP game. Again it isn't the best game on the planet, it's ok and perfectly acceptable and fun to play.

    I'm certainly not opposed to companies making a profit or feeling they need to charge $15 a month to cover their costs, if they can get people to pay it and their customers have fun, it's a win win for both of them. But for me personally I just don't see the value there to justify $45 a month (in my case because of the family), over what we are currently getting for free.

  • Lighten_UpLighten_Up Member Posts: 108

     


    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Ah socialism - everything is unfair blah blah blah. Everyone else should work and pay for me blah blah blah.

     

    What are you talking about? 

     


    When you "pay" for non-mmo linear game that ends it's understandable but when you play an MMO the games doesn't end even though the company doesn't ask you to buy the whole game again. Now - they may charge for expansions every couple of years and these are usually pretty inexpensive but you're getting alot of entertainment for your money.

     

    Are you saying I should pay because the gaming company only askes for 10% a month of the whole gaming price? I don't mind paying for my entertainment at all, such as I don't mind paying for my own drinks at the bar. But I do mind if I payed 10 bucks for the whole beverage and I'm still forced to pay another 5 bucks for the actual juice. That's toying with my money. Actually, 10 bucks for a drink is grossly expensive as it is. I wouldn't pay for that at all! I'm derailing.
     


    And people don't deserve to get free housing. I have Stage I kidney failure and yet I still work and don't expect the governement to nanny me so don't talk to me about health issues and paying rent.

     

    Ah, I meant to say 'poor mental problems' and not health problems. I'm sorry to hear about your kidney failure. 

     


    People that expect things for free in life make me ill and are one of the reasons the world is basically broke.

     

    I agree with you wholeheartedly, people need to earn their money. But most people don't want to live in cardboards for the rest of their lives. They have dreams, like you and me and I bet they would work their butts of if they could, if their own goverment didn't fuck them so hard, if they were mentally capable. It's an unfair world, not a broken world. Once everyone is treated individually, be fairly-judged and given the chance to succeed we might have something. It's called idealism. 

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by arrecks

     

    I completely agree with the quality difference between games that are P2P straight out the door and F2P games. Then there's the community difference (there is INDEED a difference between players with and without 15$ monthly disposable income). 

    Meowhead is being a pretentious Mill utilitarian with his "higher pleasures." Stealthbr obviously knows his microeconomics. Superfluous is a possible communist who doesn't understand the term sustained income. Echolyfan outlines the economic disparity between MMO players, but makes a valid point and I'm going to build on it. At Caesar's Palace, there are 10$ min craps tables. If further explanation is needed then.... herp derp.

    People don't like to sacrifice things, so they just like to complain and moan, when in reality, not going to Taco Bell or cutting back on cigarettes can easily make up for that monthly 15$. When I was 15, I afforded to play SWG by not eating school lunch, and collecting at least 2-3$ in change weekly. My costs were not eating school burritos and tater tots and my dignity for bending over to pick up change off the ground, my benefit from that was SWG. 

    To make things even more ridiculous, 15$ = 1-3 packs of cigarettes (depending on location), 15 chicken sandwiches, 15 slim jims, 15 hot cheetos, 2-3 fast food meals, 1-3 alcoholic beverages at a bar (depending on location), 50 chicken mcnuggets and 2 large drinks, 30 wings at buffalo wild wings on tuesdays, 3 12-packs of soda. 

    Then there's the people who can't afford 15$ straight out and complain about it. That's like me complaining how I can't afford a Maserati and how I can't afford the high octane gasoline it needs.




    I love you man :)

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • Lighten_UpLighten_Up Member Posts: 108

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    Originally posted by arrecks

     Superfluous is a possible communist who doesn't understand the term sustained income. 

    Okay, ouch. I'm not a commie, though, I have been accused of sympathizing with communists before.  Sorry, 'sustained income'? 

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Originally posted by oubers

    must agree with the OP...people all buy iphones and ipads.....but a 15 bucks a month to play a game is too much??

    RLY??

    Dont be cheap.....buy one less cellphone (read iphone) and you got the budget to play your favorite 15 bucks a month MMO for about 3 YEARS.....(600€ : 15 = 40 months).

    lolz :)

     

    A recent poll of teens showed that apparently the majority of them (For this poll anyway) would rather have a smartphone than a car.

    Yes.  That's right.  I said they'd rather have a smartphone than a car.

    Pretty crazy, huh?

    I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but I'd rather have my phone than an MMO for three years.  Just saying.  I mean, it's a PHONE.  You can do so much with it.  Of course, I'm obviously not as addicted to MMOs as some of the other people on this site. :)

    I don't think they're so much more amazing than other games that I feel a huge urge to pay an extra 15 dollars a month just to experience the bliss.



    The problem is: you won't have the phone for 3 years. After you spend your $200+ for you iphone (which is absurd) you then will have to buy the next best iphone/ipad that comes out - it never ends with electronics.

    So you're ok with spending that amount of money + wireless braodband access (4G is usually around 45 bucks on top of your cell phone plan of $50-100 permont. And this is acceptable to you but buying an MMO for $60 + $15 per month is too expensive?

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    People that expect things for free in life make me ill and are one of the reasons the world is basically broke.

    As someone who makes their living studying such issues...let me just say you should stick to talking about MMO's, because you are so very wrong with your assumptions and assurtions and it's really a conversation for a politcal/socio-economical forum not an MMO forum.

    Your basically argueing an ideology vs another people's ideology...not even opinions (which is usually what is argued) but ideology. Idealogical arguements usually do not end well....

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    People are afraid of change, they always have been. Once you realize how shallow human nature is, you stop being surprised by it.

    10-20 years ago most of these people were having these same arguments with people of that generation trying to convince them that change was good, and now they're the stubborn stoggers that need convincing. Pretty easy to laugh people off once you come to that realization.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by kellian1

    Originally posted by echolynfan



    People that expect things for free in life make me ill and are one of the reasons the world is basically broke.

    As someone who makes their living studying such issues...let me just say you should stick to talking about MMO's, because you are so very wrong with your assumptions and assurtions and it's really a conversation for a politcal/socio-economical forum not an MMO forum.

    Your basically argueing an ideology vs another people's ideology...not even opinions (which is usually what is argued) but ideology. Idealogical arguements usually do not end well....

    I disagree - this thread has answered my questions regarding why some people have a problem paying for a game sub and not for so many other things in life that cost more and give you less.

    The ideaology of this topic is simple: Those who want other people to pay for their entertainment and those who are responsible and wish to pay their own way. There's no need for a government funded study - it's black and white. As long as these same people can find F2P MMO's to play - they'll play those BECAUSE they're free - not because it's their game of choice.

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    People are afraid of change, they always have been. Once you realize how shallow human nature is, you stop being surprised by it.

    10-20 years ago most of these people were having these same arguments with people of that generation trying to convince them that change was good, and now they're the stubborn stoggers that need convincing. Pretty easy to laugh people off once you come to that realization.

    You want to clarify your post? Are you suggesting that old fogies like me used to paying a game sub are afraid of the F2P model? If so you're wrong. I've played some of the F2P games and didn't like the games or the lame people who played them.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    Originally posted by kellian1


    Originally posted by echolynfan



    People that expect things for free in life make me ill and are one of the reasons the world is basically broke.

    As someone who makes their living studying such issues...let me just say you should stick to talking about MMO's, because you are so very wrong with your assumptions and assurtions and it's really a conversation for a politcal/socio-economical forum not an MMO forum.

    Your basically argueing an ideology vs another people's ideology...not even opinions (which is usually what is argued) but ideology. Idealogical arguements usually do not end well....

    I disagree - this thread has answered my questions regarding why some people have a problem paying for a game sub and not for so many other things in life that cost more and give you less.

    The ideaology of this topic is simple: Those who want other people to pay for their entertainment and those who are responsible and wish to pay their own way. There's no need for a government funded study - it's black and white. As long as these same people can find F2P MMO's to play - they'll play those BECAUSE they're free - not because it's their game of choice.

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    Hmm interesting conclusion which is completly flawed.

    Why are people who pay for an MMO more "responsible" than others? Isn't is responsible to make sure you are getting your money's worth and not throwing your money around?

    You must have missed my 2 posts on the topic...I play F2P games because currently there is no Pay MMO worth $15 above what I am currently playing. It's called being responsible with your money. I have no problem paying and have in the past paid $15 for an MMO when I find one worth it, currently there isn't.

    How are others paying for my entertainement? The companies who make the F2P games understand they have people who will purchase micro transactions and those who will not, they understand this no?

    No offense, but in my field it's a classic strawman arguement that often has very little validity because things like this aren't black & white as you say

     

  • Lighten_UpLighten_Up Member Posts: 108

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    That's a very narrow-minded thing of you to say, echolynfan. I think I have learned enough from your posts to judge you -- it's all quite black and white.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    People are afraid of change, they always have been. Once you realize how shallow human nature is, you stop being surprised by it.

    10-20 years ago most of these people were having these same arguments with people of that generation trying to convince them that change was good, and now they're the stubborn stoggers that need convincing. Pretty easy to laugh people off once you come to that realization.

    You want to clarify your post? Are you suggesting that old fogies like me used to paying a game sub are afraid of the F2P model? If so you're wrong. I've played some of the F2P games and didn't like the games or the lame people who played them.

    You're post is completely irrelevant to the statement I made, and also gives insight into the true reason you made this thread in the first place. F2P games aren't entirely made up of people who only play for free, and though you seem offended at the assumption of me making a generalization you end your post by doing the exact same thing. Not all people who play F2P games dislike P2P. For instance, I play both, and I play a game depending on if the game itself is good, not the payment model (within reason). While I don't think that monthly fee is too much to ask for, I'm not going to just assume a game is going to be less interesting because it lacks it. To group everyone who plays F2P games into one giant category is silly, especially since you haven't met all of them and, clearly, haven't played a very wide range of F2P games.

    You also assume that because people suggest SWTOR isn't worth paying for, that means no P2P games are worth paying for. What you should have taken from that is exactly what was proposed, that the game isn't worth the money. You know, like that cake that looks amazing but really isn't worth the calories? That.

    You started the thread with a question but it's evident that in the end it was a question you'd already answered in your own mind, so basically it's just you complaining about something that's not actually what you think it is. Good to know.

    Moving on.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by kellian1

    Originally posted by echolynfan


    Originally posted by kellian1


    Originally posted by echolynfan



    People that expect things for free in life make me ill and are one of the reasons the world is basically broke.

    As someone who makes their living studying such issues...let me just say you should stick to talking about MMO's, because you are so very wrong with your assumptions and assurtions and it's really a conversation for a politcal/socio-economical forum not an MMO forum.

    Your basically argueing an ideology vs another people's ideology...not even opinions (which is usually what is argued) but ideology. Idealogical arguements usually do not end well....

    I disagree - this thread has answered my questions regarding why some people have a problem paying for a game sub and not for so many other things in life that cost more and give you less.

    The ideaology of this topic is simple: Those who want other people to pay for their entertainment and those who are responsible and wish to pay their own way. There's no need for a government funded study - it's black and white. As long as these same people can find F2P MMO's to play - they'll play those BECAUSE they're free - not because it's their game of choice.

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    Hmm interesting conclusion which is completly flawed.

    Why are people who pay for an MMO more "responsible" than others? Isn't is responsible to make sure you are getting your money's worth and not throwing your money around?

    You must have missed my 2 posts on the topic...I play F2P games because currently there is no Pay MMO worth $15 above what I am currently playing. It's called being responsible with your money. I have no problem paying and have in the past paid $15 for an MMO when I find one worth it, currently there isn't.

    How are others paying for my entertainement? The companies who make the F2P games understand they have people who will purchase micro transactions and those who will not, they understand this no?

    No offense, but in my field it's a classic strawman arguement that often has very little validity because things like this aren't black & white as you say

     



    If you play F2P games and never use the cash shop or buy anything you're letting other people pay for the game - it's that simple. I don't throw my money around at all - I find an MMO I like and I pay for it and if I don't like it later on I un-sub.

    The problem with people that live in theoretical worlds is that all the see is grey when there is only black and white. These people are called wishy washy and are the same people who call themselves "independents" because their more "enlightened" than everyone. What they really are - are people that stand for nothing.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Originally posted by echolynfan


    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    People are afraid of change, they always have been. Once you realize how shallow human nature is, you stop being surprised by it.

    10-20 years ago most of these people were having these same arguments with people of that generation trying to convince them that change was good, and now they're the stubborn stoggers that need convincing. Pretty easy to laugh people off once you come to that realization.

    You want to clarify your post? Are you suggesting that old fogies like me used to paying a game sub are afraid of the F2P model? If so you're wrong. I've played some of the F2P games and didn't like the games or the lame people who played them.

    You're post is completely irrelevant to the statement I made, and also gives insight into the true reason you made this thread in the first place. F2P games aren't entirely made up of people who only play for free, and though you seem offended at the assumption of me making a generalization you end your post by doing the exact same thing. Not all people who play F2P games dislike P2P. For instance, I play both, and I play a game depending on if the game itself is good, not the payment model (within reason). While I don't think that monthly fee is too much to ask for, I'm not going to just assume a game is going to be less interesting because it lacks it. To group everyone who plays F2P games into one giant category is silly, especially since you haven't met all of them and, clearly, haven't played a very wide range of F2P games.

    You also assume that because people suggest SWTOR isn't worth paying for, that means no P2P games are worth paying for. What you should have taken from that is exactly what was proposed, that the game isn't worth the money. You know, like that cake that looks amazing but really isn't worth the calories? That.

    You started the thread with a question but it's evident that in the end it was a question you'd already answered in your own mind, so basically it's just you complaining about something that's not actually what you think it is. Good to know.

    Moving on.



    No - not true. My question was answered after reading all these great posts. Perhaps it's not fair of me to generalize and put everyone who likes to play F2P games in the same category but in my experience the attitude is generally the same among those kind of players.

    SWTOR is worth the sub - it's better than anything out there right now and I predict will be a huge success.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • kellian1kellian1 Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Originally posted by echolynfan

     



    If you play F2P games and never use the cash shop or buy anything you're letting other people pay for the game - it's that simple. I don't throw my money around at all - I find an MMO I like and I pay for it and if I don't like it later on I un-sub.

    The problem with people that live in theoretical worlds is that all the see is grey when there is only black and white. These people are called wishy washy and are the same people who call themselves "independents" because their more "enlightened" than everyone. What they really are - are people that stand for nothing.

    Again you seem to be missing the point. You seem to be under the assumption that the companies who create F2P games think 100% of the player base will pay for items. The reality is 100% of the people will not and that is understood when they create the business model. They hope that they will and create content so they will, again you say people are "paying for me" the reality is I have purchased both expansion packs for LotRo back when I payed $15 a month for it...so I get alot of the perks for free others have to pay for because of this.

    Ahh see shade of grey...funny how things like that can sneak up on you. The thing Is, I purchased these things BEFORE it became F2P. When it became F2P I didn't go crazy and complain, I don't sit there and complain that I'm "paying for people" to play. The bottom line is it's their business model and they understand the downsided better than you.

    See what your trying to do is make some grandious politcal statement rapped up in an MMO arguement. Something that has to do with conservatism vs...well everything else. Again take it the the appropriate forum.

     

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Originally posted by Superfluous

    Originally posted by echolynfan

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    That's a very narrow-minded thing of you to say, echolynfan. I think I have learned enough from your posts to judge you -- it's all quite black and white.

    This +1

  • echolynfanecholynfan Member UncommonPosts: 681

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Originally posted by Superfluous


    Originally posted by echolynfan

    I'm just happy that those kind of people won't be playing SWTOR when it comes out so I won't have to deal with them :)

    That's a very narrow-minded thing of you to say, echolynfan. I think I have learned enough from your posts to judge you -- it's all quite black and white.

    This +1

    Oh good - that means I won't be seeing either one of you in any of the MMO's I'm playing :)

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

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