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5 Reasons Why Eve Online Rules and Why Other MMO Developers Should Take Notes

GeminiStaticGeminiStatic Member UncommonPosts: 182

1. The Everlasting Sandbox MMORPG

This game is going nowhere. While many sandbox MMOs have either once been good and went to shit, EVE ONLINE is still strong since 2003. We all know the horror stories about how Ultima Online was the best sandbox MMO until... well you tell me I didn't play the game only read why it kicked ass and when I asked if it was worth playing now by vets.. I hear its not. Shadowbane being one of the best gaming experience for sandbox MMO fans and now its dead. Eve Online still there? Yes indeed.

2. Great for Casual Players

Unlike the whole controveries you hear about MMO addictions, Eve Online doesn't require a lot of your time (with the exception of the learning curve which is made better with the tutorials and the large amounts of reference websites). Real time skill learning is just what the casual player desires if they don't have all the time in the world but still wish to play a great sandbox MMO.

3. Stories, Lores, News, etc.

Eve Online is a universe and with Eve Radio, the Eve Chronicles, etc. You feel like Eve is an actual breathing Universe.

4. CCP Cares About Their Players

Developers listen and gear this game not because of the money but because of their players. Bam! Enough said.

5. Mature Community

Sure there's assholes everywhere you go but what fun is their with a game where you can go toe to toe without any restrictions (with the exception of the world of pain consequences later) and just kill each other. Still there's a game where everyoen is on the same page and no QQ about ganking and etc. Everyone knows what is up with the game therefore...the complete opposite of WOW and 11 year old gamers. This is a grown man (or woman's game).

 

yeah this is coming from someone that was skeptical about playing a ship game in puter space the whole time but remember there's plenty of evidence as to why this game kicks ass and how it has the potential to become more everytime. CCP are kings and other developers NEED to take notes!

Old School Gamer - http://www.rsclegacy.com/

Comments

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760

    Originally posted by GeminiStatic

    1. The Everlasting Sandbox MMORPG

    This game is going nowhere. While many sandbox MMOs have either once been good and went to shit, EVE ONLINE is still strong since 2003. We all know the horror stories about how Ultima Online was the best sandbox MMO until... well you tell me I didn't play the game only read why it kicked ass and when I asked if it was worth playing now by vets.. I hear its not. Shadowbane being one of the best gaming experience for sandbox MMO fans and now its dead. Eve Online still there? Yes indeed.

    2. Great for Casual Players

    Unlike the whole controveries you hear about MMO addictions, Eve Online doesn't require a lot of your time (with the exception of the learning curve which is made better with the tutorials and the large amounts of reference websites). Real time skill learning is just what the casual player desires if they don't have all the time in the world but still wish to play a great sandbox MMO.

    3. Stories, Lores, News, etc.

    Eve Online is a universe and with Eve Radio, the Eve Chronicles, etc. You feel like Eve is an actual breathing Universe.

    4. CCP Cares About Their Players

    Developers listen and gear this game not because of the money but because of their players. Bam! Enough said.

    5. Mature Community

    Sure there's assholes everywhere you go but what fun is their with a game where you can go toe to toe without any restrictions (with the exception of the world of pain consequences later) and just kill each other. Still there's a game where everyoen is on the same page and no QQ about ganking and etc. Everyone knows what is up with the game therefore...the complete opposite of WOW and 11 year old gamers. This is a grown man (or woman's game).

     

    yeah this is coming from someone that was skeptical about playing a ship game in puter space the whole time but remember there's plenty of evidence as to why this game kicks ass and how it has the potential to become more everytime. CCP are kings and other developers NEED to take notes!

    O'rly? where have you been for the past two years?

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,799

    I think the workers of CCP really do care. I think the upper management nearly collapsed the game and have hindered any chance for new content other than ships or the pre existing WiS game - hence the apology  

     

    I am still waiting for atmospheric flight which was shown years ago.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • generals3generals3 Member Posts: 3,307

    Originally posted by GeminiStatic

    1. The Everlasting Sandbox MMORPG

    This game is going nowhere. While many sandbox MMOs have either once been good and went to shit, EVE ONLINE is still strong since 2003. We all know the horror stories about how Ultima Online was the best sandbox MMO until... well you tell me I didn't play the game only read why it kicked ass and when I asked if it was worth playing now by vets.. I hear its not. Shadowbane being one of the best gaming experience for sandbox MMO fans and now its dead. Eve Online still there? Yes indeed.

    Agree

    2. Great for Casual Players

    Unlike the whole controveries you hear about MMO addictions, Eve Online doesn't require a lot of your time (with the exception of the learning curve which is made better with the tutorials and the large amounts of reference websites). Real time skill learning is just what the casual player desires if they don't have all the time in the world but still wish to play a great sandbox MMO.

    totally agree, though certain activities in EVE will require people to be more than casual.

    3. Stories, Lores, News, etc.

    Eve Online is a universe and with Eve Radio, the Eve Chronicles, etc. You feel like Eve is an actual breathing Universe.

    I personally don't really care but ya it does give EVE a certain "shiny"

    4. CCP Cares About Their Players

    Developers listen and gear this game not because of the money but because of their players. Bam! Enough said.

    Now you lost me. CCP never listened to its community, not that it did a very bad job but they couldn't care less about the players. It's only after incarna and a massive "protest" from the players and lots of account cancellations they decided to do what the players wanted them to do.

    5. Mature Community

    Sure there's assholes everywhere you go but what fun is their with a game where you can go toe to toe without any restrictions (with the exception of the world of pain consequences later) and just kill each other. Still there's a game where everyoen is on the same page and no QQ about ganking and etc. Everyone knows what is up with the game therefore...the complete opposite of WOW and 11 year old gamers. This is a grown man (or woman's game).

    Actually there are lots of assholes but the thing is that it totally fits the EVE universe. It's meant to be harsh and "cruel".

     

    yeah this is coming from someone that was skeptical about playing a ship game in puter space the whole time but remember there's plenty of evidence as to why this game kicks ass and how it has the potential to become more everytime. CCP are kings and other developers NEED to take notes!

     

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
    Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  • generals3generals3 Member Posts: 3,307

    Originally posted by Lateris

    I think the workers of CCP really do care. I think the upper management nearly collapsed the game and have hindered any chance for new content other than ships or the pre existing WiS game - hence the apology  

     

    I am still waiting for atmospheric flight which was shown years ago.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Actually i think i once read a quote from a dev who was pissed the players didn't like the "dev's bigger plan". So basically their plan > your desires. If it wasn't for the money they would just continue following their plan without taking your opinion into account.

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
    Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430

    I get the impression that CCP is a pretty good company.  They are continually trying to improve the game and when they go off track, they are willing to say so and try to compensate.  Very professional IMO.

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • EthianEthian Member Posts: 1,216

    /signed

     

    EvE is hands down the best MMO out right now (IMO) :-)

    "I play Tera for the gameplay"

  • brutotalbrutotal Member Posts: 276

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I get the impression that CCP is a pretty good company.  They are continually trying to improve the game and when they go off track, they are willing to say so and try to compensate.  Very professional IMO.

     

    They didn't give more then lip service to "going off track"  until they had to close some of their offices because they were losing too much revenue. Also they didn't improve the game more than maintence for ~18months~

    Professional is a very intresting word to use, only caring about  the bottom line is very professional.

  • idgaradidgarad Member Posts: 174

    Here is 5 reasons it doesn't for contrast:

     

    1: Top Heavy. Very Top Heavy. In fact I would clear state that Eve Online is held hostage by it's player base. Unable to adapt and attract new players by meeting some basic MMO features that are now considered standard (skinnablemoddable UI for example) It is very clear in Eve's real motto, "HTFU". The CSM have clear stated that their concern isn't the overall health of the MMO but rather their own Alliances interests. They are gladly willing to burn Eve into the ground rather then compromise anything feature wise. Simply ask, "What as an Eve player would you be willing to give up to double the game population?" The answer is universally, "Nothing. HTFU or GTFO" which business wise is just plain stupid. You have to grow at least enough to cover inflation costs.

     

    2: Financially unstable. I've posted in other threads before. Enrollment with just 3% interest requires 450 new subscriptions every month, and that assumes they subscribe for at least 12 months. Eve Online has lagged inflation for 4 years in a row. It took 20% of their staff getting laid off for them to realize this.

     

    3: Too many alts. When I started in Eve I took a poll in Jita and Amarr on how many alts people had (pre-plex) and it came out to abour 1.2-1.3 depending on how you look at the numbers. When I reactivated after the layoffs and polled the same people (post-plex) the alt count was at 3. If you work the alt counts into the population numbers Eve has been flat for 2 years in a row, roughly. Without specific Distinct IP address counts that is an estimate as best I can gather.

     

    4: Poor PvE content by standards. The number of different missions and exploration sites that cater to Hi-sec players is tiny in reality. This is large deterent to KEEPING new players.  Remember in the most hard core PvP games there has always been PvE to keep people busy doing fun stuff in the mean time. A good balance is needed. Eve to most is more a hobby or a sim then a game. There is a reason they haven't made a Sim City 5, hobbysim games don't sell well and CCP is not EA or Sony, they don't have a large enough pool or titles to floatsubsidize other titles. There is a reason they wanted White Wolf and World of Darkness. Their margin has been getting bitch-slapped for at least 4 years end-to-end. They knew they needed another title (diversify) at least. Now they risk losing all 3 titles, 2 of which aren't even done yet. My best professional estimate is they have about 15 months to get enrollment back up above 600 a month. If they can't get above 600 a month they might have trouble securing additional funding.

     

    5: Poor PvP mechanics by standard. Eve has what most would call Open RvR in most other MMOs. But that is all it has. Sadly this results in a lot of 5v1 50v1 and Blob vs Blob. Not that giant fleet on fleet battles are a bad thing but by today's mmo standards there is more structure that gives players more options and tools to fight the kind of fights they want. Battlegrounds have been around for over a decade (instanced population controlled battles) as well as arena style combat.  (smaller 1v1 and to 5v5 style battles) Both of which could be easily (relative term) implemented in Eve (See #1 why it hasn't happened).

     

    My biggest problem is that the business side of me clearly sees an weakness in the model CCP has built. Microtransactions can't save it. PLEX is largely brought in by the sub-50 mil skill point crowd as a catch-up tool. With flat, if not lower, enrollment the supply of PLEX gets tighter and tighter. Inflation kicks in, and CCP has to take additional losses by subsidizing the PLEX volume to keep inflation down (Below 580m by my estimates) or risk mass alt cancellations. My question to myself and as I pose it to the Eve community from time to time is, "Where are you will to compromise to draw in new players?" Would you give up hi-sec ganks? What about giving all new players double exp until they hit 10 mil skillpoints? What about putting the Pirate Factions as competition for SoV (extending the Incursion mechanic to all the pirate factions as well as adding SoV mechanics)? What about removing the T2 BPOs that are still out there? What are we willing to do to draw in more players? Remember, 450 each month just to eat inflation.

    "We can HTFU all the way to server shut down, or strike a balance between the need to grow, and the foundations of what Eve is, Ships blowing up ships in space. Eve isn't real, it's a game and we need to get back to the game side of things."

     

    Eve is a good game, now what can we do to make it better? What needs to be added, and what needs to be taken away? One hell of a debate there.

  • kovahkovah Member UncommonPosts: 692

    I've avoided replying to this topic up till this point.  I saw it posted prior to any responses and my first thought was "In Before The Haters."  

    I'm glad you're enjoying your time with EvE.  The points you bring up are valid and have valid critisms.  Keep doing what you do though.  It's a game and if you're having fun then it is serving its purpose.  Ignore the haters cause haters gonna hate.

    Cheers,

    K

  • GarkanGarkan Member Posts: 552

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

     Very professional IMO.

    Best laugh I had all week, CCP have consistently proven that they are the total opposite of professional. They hae used dev powers to cheat, made fun of the players, trolled the forums, told us to HTFU and buy $1000 jeans and so many other things.

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

    Gravity Rush,
    Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
    Company of Heroes II.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    So there are 5 Pro and 5 Con Points in this thread as I type this out.

    First, in regard to the 5 Pro Points:


    1. EVE has danced around with the tragedy of a NGE, but CCP has avoided that so far.  NGEs have killed quite a few games.

    2. Our definition of Casual differs.  I would not say that EVE is a good game for Casual players.  Casual is more than just the amount of time a person plays - it is about how you play in that time, regardless of the amount of time you play.  Yes, EVE can be a friendly game for those that do not have a lot of time to devote to the game...where they can still get a sense of progress from training or the market.  "Death penalty", scammers, pirates, etc, etc - I would not recommend this game to a person I consider a Casual gamer.  Hardcore with Little Time?  Sure, but not "Casual"...

    3. I've never listened to EVE Radio.  Chronicles are hit and miss.  PVE is definitely light.  Yet, EVE definitely has what I would consider a living world/Universe compared to most games.  There is more meaning in what you do than what one is likely to find in most games.

    4. Um...not to be rude...but...LOL.

    5. Our definition of Mature Community also differs.  An understanding of what you're getting into does not necessarily mean you are "mature" - so to speak.  It leaves plenty of room for immaturity.  Sure, I came across far more players of an "advanced age" (lol, over 25) in playing EVE than in other games - but that would not be the "Mature Community" I think you're talking about either.  I cannot even really say that taking a "mature" view is necessary for enjoying the game, but yeah - if you start to shed tears - you'll be eaten alive.  Would that make it more of a Predatory Community?

    Second, in regard to the 5 Con Points:

    1. NGEs have killed quite a few games.

    2. CCP might have been fine if they left White Wolf alone and never started development on DUST 514.

    3. PLEX is an abomination...but...whether a person is paying for their ALT's subs or somebody else is buying the PLEX to convert to ISK - CCP is getting paid for the sub.  Depending on what you're doing, running two accounts can make the game that much more fun.  Heck, even having that alt to scout out for you without having to logswitch - heh, to fly as bait - etc... I usually ran two accounts when I played (paid both directly).

    4. See #2.  See #1.

    5. Um...not to be rude...but...HELL NO.  Yeah, the blob warfare can get old - but there is very little in EVE that would allow for any of the casual PvP nonsense that plagues games these days.  If players wanted to try out various "fair fights" - they could do that.  Corps can hold tourneys, etc, etc, etc.  No, you're not going to get your game lobby PvP mini-game.  Blecch!

    Third, in regard to my own thoughts...


     


    I definitely think that other developers need to take a look at what EVE Online has managed to do since 2003.  It did not start out with the need to have a bazillion subs.  They have not implemented a NGE in an attempt to get a bazillion subs.


     


    There are things that people like about EVE.  There are things that people do not like about EVE.  Developers should pay attention to that.  They should not attempt to "clone" it in the way that Perpetuum did...meh.


     


    I firmly believe there is a crowd out there waiting for an EVE-WoW hybrid...

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • pexisxpexisx Member Posts: 11

    Totally agree, EVE is one of the best games out there.

  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 Member Posts: 826

    Yes EvE is a great game.. or is it really a game?

    EvE is not built around, making it fun for YOU..

    many people that try to play EvE just dont understand it...  And if they dont understand it, it becomes boring.. Its like trying to do University level mathematics when you havent undestod the basics of mathematics, you will be hoplesly lost and confused..

    EvE is what you make it, If you want to do something or make something, within the limitatios of the game ofc, you can. Will some other players try to stop what you are doing? probably but that is what EvE is.. The content of EvE is its players not what the developers have made. This concept is hard to explain to people who have not jet "GOT IT" so to speak..

    Someone mentioned pve content, there is no such thing in EvE, Is there a grind mechanic to make you ISK? yes but I would hardly call that PvE content, that Usaly define such fetures in other so called MMOs..

    EvE is a PvP experince from the time you log on untill you  log off, Anything you do Influence other peoples play time.

    One Example is you log on and go and grind a level 4 mission, Because you need more ISK, because in 2 days time you are going to do a low sec roam and kill some people that Uspet you and your Corp mates... When you hit that lvl4 mission, A ninja loot salvager shows up with his friends and fucks with your income....

    Your reason for doing the Lvel 4 in the first place was to get Isk to mess with other players. Who did something 2 you to make you want to get back at them. Also your decision to do it created content for the Ninja salvager and his friends...Point of this = Players are the content In EvE, if you dont want to Interact with others EvE gets Boring fast....

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas Member Posts: 468

    Eve Online is definitely the most advanced MMO out there now, and the most advanced ever made to date. Some people here have been complaining about it being difficult for new gamers to get into, but if a new player really takes a little time to plan out their development that is a complete non-issue. A small squad of players no more than one month old each could kill an 8 year old player in a battleship if they prepare properly.

    Do the initial tutorial missions to learn the basic game mechanics (which are quite good at doing so), and then TAKE YOUR DESTINY INTO YOUR OWN HANDS! Plan out what you want to do. Look at the ships available; if one makes you really go "I want that!" then look at the skills and equipment required for it, and GET THEM. If you want to fight, FIGHT. If you want to build, BUILD. More than any other game I know, your actual personal experience and knowledge is worth far more than what any point score on a character screen could give, so take the Eve bull by the horns and go get that experience! You have Battleclinic for checking out what are considered good ship fits and the Eve Fitting Tool (EFT) and Singularity test server for testing some of your own before having to buy them for real, a plethora of player-created guides on virtually every aspect of Eve...if you're determined to get strong quickly, use them. All of them. You'll be racking up ship kills before you know it. 

    The one thing I would recommend for any new player reading this would be to join a friendly trainer corp to show you some of those tips and tricks that you learn through cold, hard experience, such as better ways of fitting ships for certain roles and, more importantly, how not to die embarrassingly quick in PvP.

    I'm a 4 year veteran of this game and I have no intentions whatsoever of quitting anytime soon. Eve Online is the king of games, powerful, chaotic, unpredictable, and the only true challenge out there. If you have the guts for it, I look forward to flying with/against you.

    Where's the any key?

  • udorusudorus Member Posts: 79

    If you name just 1 expansion that they have actually finished i am waiting in the meantime im off to laugh at those monocles

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    No such thing as 'finished' look up agile development.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    No such thing as 'finished' look up agile development.

    Always found "Agile Development" to be kind of funny...it is manager-speak for feature creep.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699

    Originally posted by brutotal

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I get the impression that CCP is a pretty good company.  They are continually trying to improve the game and when they go off track, they are willing to say so and try to compensate.  Very professional IMO.

     

    They didn't give more then lip service to "going off track"  until they had to close some of their offices because they were losing too much revenue. Also they didn't improve the game more than maintence for ~18months~

    Professional is a very intresting word to use, only caring about  the bottom line is very professional.

    A business exists to make money, plain and simple.  Providing a service (in this game a video game) is their way of acheiving that goal.  You make it sound like it's a bad thing.  Do you worry about your pay check every week?

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    No such thing as 'finished' look up agile development.

    Always found "Agile Development" to be kind of funny...it is manager-speak for feature creep.

    Feature creep seems to happen no matter what.  Esspecially working on in-house applications where the users and your managers are the same people.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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