just curious, but what year did the major WoW bashing {mod edit} start?
{mod note- also edited title to match and be a bit less lightning rod}
I think more or less WOTlK release. Also when WoW was starting to implement things like cross-server LFG, zillions of add-ons, shifting bigger focus to instances & socializing solely in guilds, etc
When WoW started to 'feel' more like multiplayer lobby co-op game, than mmorpg.
Well anyway nevermind, WoW is finally starting to decline. It will remain strong, it is still is and will be popular game, but everything comes to an end, and tbh WoW domination and infuence was imho too big. Genre staled cause of it.
I started to bash WoW when patch 2.3 was released in 13 Nov 2007.
Particulary these lines:
"Many leveling improvements have been made for the old world.
The amount of experience needed to gain a level has been decreased between levels 20 and 60. In addition, the amount of experience granted by quests has been increased between levels 30 and 60.
Level 1-60 dungeon quests have had their experience and faction rewards increased.
Many elite creatures and quests in the level 1-60 experience have been changed to accommodate solo play."
For me, this was the very start to the ultimate ruination of this game and I've been bashing WoW ever since.
As soon as WoW became the #1 (subscription/players), which was it's day of release...
Nothing attracts attention like being at the top.
I don't know if this statement is entirely accurate, but it's ok if it is. I played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year, before I picked up WoW and they were better games. The community was better, the lore was more deep and interesting, and heck, WoW, to me after that period of time, was just an EQ clone with what should have been better, second gen graphics but was cartoony, easy and boring.
I "came over" to WoW because people I knew played it, including a girl I ended up dating for several months, but I was never really happy with it. Very few people I met through WoW were actual "gamers" who were able to immerse, but rather treated WoW like a "Second Life" with swords and magic. My personal experiences with WoW made me tired of it virtually before I started playing.
WoW isn't "good" and it was never "good". It's easy and popular, that's it. Some people think it's great because they are ignorant, same reason fat people like McDonalds. For anyone with common sense, McDonalds was a bad deal the day it opened; same with WoW.
As soon as WoW became the #1 (subscription/players), which was it's day of release...
Nothing attracts attention like being at the top.
I don't know if this statement is entirely accurate, but it's ok if it is. I played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year, before I picked up WoW and they were better games. The community was better, the lore was more deep and interesting, and heck, WoW, to me after that period of time, was just an EQ clone with what should have been better, second gen graphics but was cartoony, easy and boring.
I "came over" to WoW because people I knew played it, including a girl I ended up dating for several months, but I was never really happy with it. Very few people I met through WoW were actual "gamers" who were able to immerse, but rather treated WoW like a "Second Life" with swords and magic. My personal experiences with WoW made me tired of it virtually before I started playing.
WoW isn't "good" and it was never "good". It's easy and popular, that's it. Some people think it's great because they are ignorant, same reason fat people like McDonalds. For anyone with common sense, McDonalds was a bad deal the day it opened; same with WoW.
Lol, WoW was better. No need to keep computer running all night for selling goods, no need for macroing stupid mini-game crafting, no artificial instances every where just fluid movement from place to place. EQ2 community wasn't any better, it was just smaller so big egoes had more room to yell. So called gamers were worst people I seen MMO world, small dictators that have very little respect on those who didn't agree or had nerve to call some other MMO better.
And answer to OP question, WoW bashing started even before it was released or in beta. I remember playing EQ2 and boy were they bashing. Still they feel so bitter.
As soon as WoW became the #1 (subscription/players), which was it's day of release...
Nothing attracts attention like being at the top.
I don't know if this statement is entirely accurate, but it's ok if it is. I played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year, before I picked up WoW and they were better games. The community was better, the lore was more deep and interesting, and heck, WoW, to me after that period of time, was just an EQ clone with what should have been better, second gen graphics but was cartoony, easy and boring.
I "came over" to WoW because people I knew played it, including a girl I ended up dating for several months, but I was never really happy with it. Very few people I met through WoW were actual "gamers" who were able to immerse, but rather treated WoW like a "Second Life" with swords and magic. My personal experiences with WoW made me tired of it virtually before I started playing.
WoW isn't "good" and it was never "good". It's easy and popular, that's it. Some people think it's great because they are ignorant, same reason fat people like McDonalds. For anyone with common sense, McDonalds was a bad deal the day it opened; same with WoW.
Lol, WoW was better. No need to keep computer running all night for selling goods, no need for macroing stupid mini-game crafting, no artificial instances every where just fluid movement from place to place. EQ2 community wasn't any better, it was just smaller so big egoes had more room to yell. So called gamers were worst people I seen MMO world, small dictators that have very little respect on those who didn't agree or had nerve to call some other MMO better.
And answer to OP question, WoW bashing started even before it was released or in beta. I remember playing EQ2 and boy were they bashing. Still they feel so bitter.
just curious, but what year did the major WoW bashing poptrend start?
Before Vanilla.
Increased with Burning Crusade.
Increased with Lich King.
Increased with Cataclysm.
You see...with each expansion, some of the people that were fine with the game before that expansion - some of them ended up joining the hatetrain.
I stuck it out through Cata for the most part... bought the expansion, played for a week . . . and brutally /facepalmed myself.
Kind of like you're seeing an increase with MoP.
There would be fewer haters if MoP was not going to be what it is - because those that were fine with Cata would have still been fine. There would be fewer haters if not for Cata, because the LK folks were fine. There would be fewer haters if not for LK, because the BC folks were fine. There would be fewer haters if not for BC, because the Vanilla folks were fine.
There is a growing group of Latter Day WoW haters growing - that still love the game up to a certain expansion and wish it would return to that.
Pretty much this.
The most vocal "bashers" of WoW these days are people who had previously played and enjoyed the game. They're passionate because they enjoyed the game, but the game in the state they enjoyed is gone forever, so they voice their dissaproval of the game in it's current and future state.
Take me for example, who played WoW for over six years. I use to love playing WoW, hell I met my wife through the game. But the game today isn't anywhere near what it use to be, and MoP is just beating that fact over the head and reminding former WoW players exactly why they left the game.
Thats an easy one, The bashing started near the end of Beta Wrath when everyone realised the implications of the grossly undertuned and rehashed Nax, also happened to be the start of the blizzard revolution and changes GC and co were making to make the game 'accessable'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I started to bash WoW when patch 2.3 was released in 13 Nov 2007.
Particulary these lines:
"Many leveling improvements have been made for the old world.
The amount of experience needed to gain a level has been decreased between levels 20 and 60. In addition, the amount of experience granted by quests has been increased between levels 30 and 60.
Level 1-60 dungeon quests have had their experience and faction rewards increased.
Many elite creatures and quests in the level 1-60 experience have been changed to accommodate solo play."
For me, this was the very start to the ultimate ruination of this game and I've been bashing WoW ever since.
Heh I remember that patch, was playing a hunter at the time lol, hunters got #@%#%ed in that patch. As bad as it was it was nowhere near as bad as the WOTLK pre release patch and the WHOPPERs that came after that.
I was playing Anarchy Online at the time, and my guild was laughing at the cartoony medieval THING that Blizzard was making.
It didn't help that IIRC, the first screenshot we all saw was of this cartoon cow.
I wonder how much differently things would have turned out if instead of getting an MMO version of Warcraft, we got an MMO version of it's competitor at the time: Command And Conquer.
WoW bashing from the *players* of the game really started then, when they saw the trend Blizzard was going to take in reaching for the cash cow of the casuals.
WoTLK though caused the major outcry from the dedicated PvE enthusiasts right around the 2nd to 3rd month in after release of that expansion. It was easy as all hell, and thus boring.
I guess it started in Vanilla. The huge debate back then was on 40-man raids. Casuals wanted smaller raids, hardcore players wanted 40-man raids. But other than this there were no major hate movements
TBC - people started hating on Blizzard for removing 40-man raids. People hated the new arenas, battelgrounds, class imbalances etc.
WOTLK - people complained that the game was very easy. People hated that there was no tiered raid progression etc.
Cata - There's no need to explain now is there?
MoP (worst abbreviation ever!) - kung-fu panda masters! No talent trees.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Once it was crowned king of the MMOs, it was game on for the bashing. If you're watching the American Republican debates, its the same thing. Whoever is on top in any given weak, is who gets the extra lov'in from the bashers.
I don't know about bashing, but i do not about facts because i was there on launch day.
My intial day in Wow was incredible,the worst nonsesne i have ever seen in any MMO even to this day.Also upon login i was astounded at the graphics,i had just tried out EQ2 for a coupel weeks prior.My initial thought was geesus this Wow game won't last at all and won't have many subscribers it looks chilidsh.I was wrong on my assumption of subs,the power of marketing and fanbois is amazing.
The first thing i saw was a whole pile of people forming a circle train doing the emotes,it was childish.
Then as i am out and about ,this player keeps following me asking me to duel,i said no like 10x ,he still kept bugging me.Basically everything i saw was childish,example ons were just jumping over fences back n forth,i thought thank god FFXI didn't have jumping.My whole opinion of the WOW crowd was a bunch of little kids who were just over joyed with being in their first MMO.
When i joined FFXI a year or two earlier ,it was completely different,the community was extremely mature.Further more i was so happy to be in FFXI and not see retarded chat,like Chuck Norris jokes or other insulting jokes.I also did not see WTS or WTB spam,all i saw in FFXI chat was people looking to group up and help each other.
So i made my rounds in EQ2 and WOW,then back to FFXI it was a no brainer for me.Before that time ,i would usually scoff at community being much of an issue,that wa the turning point ,that made me realize community means a lot and the game design is the biggest factor.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All wrong, it started when Vanguard was the hype. If anyone on here remembers all the WoW trash talk back when Vanguard was close to release, you'll know what I'm talking about. Before that, there wasn't a whole lot of bashing, maybe a few haters here supporting EQ2 since EQ2 and WoW released so close to each other, but honestly most WoW reviews in the early days were pretty good. Vanguard was the first supposed "WoW killer". Trust me, been reading these forums for years lol.
Needless to say, Vanguard came out and flopped hard, since then though pretty much every new AAA title that has released had the bashers coming out of the closet claiming it to be the next "WoW killer", and of course nothing has done it yet, till SWTOR releases anyways.
I guess it started in Vanilla. The huge debate back then was on 40-man raids. Casuals wanted smaller raids, hardcore players wanted 40-man raids. But other than this there were no major hate movements
TBC - people started hating on Blizzard for removing 40-man raids. People hated the new arenas, battelgrounds, class imbalances etc.
WOTLK - people complained that the game was very easy. People hated that there was no tiered raid progression etc.
Cata - There's no need to explain now is there?
MoP (worst abbreviation ever!) - kung-fu panda masters! No talent trees.
I would say it started well before WoW's release, somewhere when people first learned Blizzard was going to release an MMO. I was in a gaming clan as far back as 2001 when I first heard about Blizzard working on WoW and it was already getting bashed. Heck, I was one of the bashers because I was annoyed with WC3 (I never really liked it as much as WC2, the first Blizzard game I got back around 1996) and all I saw were female models in chain bikinis (something that irritates me in fantasy games).
Back then though we didn't speculate if it was a kiddy game or not. I think the bashing increased exponentially when the "kids" came in. Granted, Blizzard has a particular talent of releasing great games that attract the cesspools of humanity. Take D2 for example, one of the worst gaming communities I ever had the displeasure of being part of. A lot of those folks came to WoW, and a lot of them are now the bashers. It is no surprise to me that this game attracts negative people, or people who are unpleasant to be around in general. What is a surprise to me are people who have played previous releases and wonder about how bad the community is in WoW (there are lots of nice folks too though so the bad community in WoW is not as bad as some people would like to have you think).
I have noticed though, after ten years of visiting gaming forums and the like, all games attract bashers. Unfortunately, now it is cool to bash WoW; it is almost like institutionalized bashing. It is a bit odd because there is nothing truly seriously flawed about WoW, in comparison to some games that have attracted ire such as AO, AoC, WAR, Dark and Light, SWG, etc. It is also cool to bash WoW players, which is something I don't fully understand. Take me for example, I am a WoW player, but I enjoy many other games whether sandboxy, hardcore, whatever.
So in a way what we are witnessing is a form of general chauvinism bordering on a sort of them vs. us mentality that has become "acceptable" in ingame chat channels both towards the game and towards its players, whether those players are jerks or not. Sometimes I think that moderators should do a better job of clearing the serious bashers out.
Oh well, I guess the new kid on the block, ToR, is going to get bashed. It is cyclical.
I remember the WoW bashing happening when I was playing DAoC. I think that was in 2005 that I started hearing it. I didn't even know other MMO's beside UO, DAoC, and EQ existed and I definitely never tried any others or read about them, or even heard of mmorpg.com at the time. I played DAoC for a few years by then. Anyways, I'd hear people bashing WoW while playing DAoC, not even knowing what WoW was exactly. The community back then as a whole was used to highly group focuses leveling, harder and more complex gameplay, with little actual quests. WoW was pretty much the opposite of what we now call classic MMORPG's were at the time.
Im still trying to figure out how people let something like a game drive them insane, maybe they are just angry people in real life and need to find anything to vent against so they feel better.
plus i keep seeing people say "kids" when people are acting immature, do you mean just acting like kids or do you think they are kids? because honestly i have met only one kid ever in warcraft between the 4 servers i play on and the now 7 years ive been in the game, all the people acting "immature" as people say have been adults lol. maybe i just got lucky with the not running into kids part huh lol
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Seems like a lot of it started when WotLK came out. Not to say that there wasn't any before that, but when they started "balancing" PvP for arenas only I left. Open world PvP didn't really happen, and the game became all about entering queues (be it dungeons or BGs). So essentially you could level from 1-80 by standing in one spot. And yeah the guy who said when they sped up leveling is right too (although that is a sticky situation for every game, how to balance between new players and veterans).
Comments
I think more or less WOTlK release. Also when WoW was starting to implement things like cross-server LFG, zillions of add-ons, shifting bigger focus to instances & socializing solely in guilds, etc
When WoW started to 'feel' more like multiplayer lobby co-op game, than mmorpg.
Well anyway nevermind, WoW is finally starting to decline. It will remain strong, it is still is and will be popular game, but everything comes to an end, and tbh WoW domination and infuence was imho too big. Genre staled cause of it.
I started to bash WoW when patch 2.3 was released in 13 Nov 2007.
Particulary these lines:
"Many leveling improvements have been made for the old world.
The amount of experience needed to gain a level has been decreased between levels 20 and 60. In addition, the amount of experience granted by quests has been increased between levels 30 and 60.
Level 1-60 dungeon quests have had their experience and faction rewards increased.
Many elite creatures and quests in the level 1-60 experience have been changed to accommodate solo play."
For me, this was the very start to the ultimate ruination of this game and I've been bashing WoW ever since.
As soon as WoW became the #1 (subscription/players), which was it's day of release...
Nothing attracts attention like being at the top.
I don't know if this statement is entirely accurate, but it's ok if it is. I played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year, before I picked up WoW and they were better games. The community was better, the lore was more deep and interesting, and heck, WoW, to me after that period of time, was just an EQ clone with what should have been better, second gen graphics but was cartoony, easy and boring.
I "came over" to WoW because people I knew played it, including a girl I ended up dating for several months, but I was never really happy with it. Very few people I met through WoW were actual "gamers" who were able to immerse, but rather treated WoW like a "Second Life" with swords and magic. My personal experiences with WoW made me tired of it virtually before I started playing.
WoW isn't "good" and it was never "good". It's easy and popular, that's it. Some people think it's great because they are ignorant, same reason fat people like McDonalds. For anyone with common sense, McDonalds was a bad deal the day it opened; same with WoW.
Lol, WoW was better. No need to keep computer running all night for selling goods, no need for macroing stupid mini-game crafting, no artificial instances every where just fluid movement from place to place. EQ2 community wasn't any better, it was just smaller so big egoes had more room to yell. So called gamers were worst people I seen MMO world, small dictators that have very little respect on those who didn't agree or had nerve to call some other MMO better.
And answer to OP question, WoW bashing started even before it was released or in beta. I remember playing EQ2 and boy were they bashing. Still they feel so bitter.
Pretty much this.
The most vocal "bashers" of WoW these days are people who had previously played and enjoyed the game. They're passionate because they enjoyed the game, but the game in the state they enjoyed is gone forever, so they voice their dissaproval of the game in it's current and future state.
Take me for example, who played WoW for over six years. I use to love playing WoW, hell I met my wife through the game. But the game today isn't anywhere near what it use to be, and MoP is just beating that fact over the head and reminding former WoW players exactly why they left the game.
I remember people bashing it before it came out on my lineage 2 server. People will bash the game for years to come also.
The Day Tigole let Kalgan and GC take over dev duties.
I am fairly sure that if you used a time machine and traveled to 2,000,000 BC someone or something would already be bashing WoW.
Thats an easy one, The bashing started near the end of Beta Wrath when everyone realised the implications of the grossly undertuned and rehashed Nax, also happened to be the start of the blizzard revolution and changes GC and co were making to make the game 'accessable'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Heh I remember that patch, was playing a hunter at the time lol, hunters got #@%#%ed in that patch. As bad as it was it was nowhere near as bad as the WOTLK pre release patch and the WHOPPERs that came after that.
before release.
I was playing Anarchy Online at the time, and my guild was laughing at the cartoony medieval THING that Blizzard was making.
It didn't help that IIRC, the first screenshot we all saw was of this cartoon cow.
I wonder how much differently things would have turned out if instead of getting an MMO version of Warcraft, we got an MMO version of it's competitor at the time: Command And Conquer.
THAT I would have played!
Deniter with post #28 of the thread hit it.
WoW bashing from the *players* of the game really started then, when they saw the trend Blizzard was going to take in reaching for the cash cow of the casuals.
WoTLK though caused the major outcry from the dedicated PvE enthusiasts right around the 2nd to 3rd month in after release of that expansion. It was easy as all hell, and thus boring.
I guess it started in Vanilla. The huge debate back then was on 40-man raids. Casuals wanted smaller raids, hardcore players wanted 40-man raids. But other than this there were no major hate movements
TBC - people started hating on Blizzard for removing 40-man raids. People hated the new arenas, battelgrounds, class imbalances etc.
WOTLK - people complained that the game was very easy. People hated that there was no tiered raid progression etc.
Cata - There's no need to explain now is there?
MoP (worst abbreviation ever!) - kung-fu panda masters! No talent trees.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Once it was crowned king of the MMOs, it was game on for the bashing. If you're watching the American Republican debates, its the same thing. Whoever is on top in any given weak, is who gets the extra lov'in from the bashers.
I self identify as a monkey.
I don't know about bashing, but i do not about facts because i was there on launch day.
My intial day in Wow was incredible,the worst nonsesne i have ever seen in any MMO even to this day.Also upon login i was astounded at the graphics,i had just tried out EQ2 for a coupel weeks prior.My initial thought was geesus this Wow game won't last at all and won't have many subscribers it looks chilidsh.I was wrong on my assumption of subs,the power of marketing and fanbois is amazing.
The first thing i saw was a whole pile of people forming a circle train doing the emotes,it was childish.
Then as i am out and about ,this player keeps following me asking me to duel,i said no like 10x ,he still kept bugging me.Basically everything i saw was childish,example ons were just jumping over fences back n forth,i thought thank god FFXI didn't have jumping.My whole opinion of the WOW crowd was a bunch of little kids who were just over joyed with being in their first MMO.
When i joined FFXI a year or two earlier ,it was completely different,the community was extremely mature.Further more i was so happy to be in FFXI and not see retarded chat,like Chuck Norris jokes or other insulting jokes.I also did not see WTS or WTB spam,all i saw in FFXI chat was people looking to group up and help each other.
So i made my rounds in EQ2 and WOW,then back to FFXI it was a no brainer for me.Before that time ,i would usually scoff at community being much of an issue,that wa the turning point ,that made me realize community means a lot and the game design is the biggest factor.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All wrong, it started when Vanguard was the hype. If anyone on here remembers all the WoW trash talk back when Vanguard was close to release, you'll know what I'm talking about. Before that, there wasn't a whole lot of bashing, maybe a few haters here supporting EQ2 since EQ2 and WoW released so close to each other, but honestly most WoW reviews in the early days were pretty good. Vanguard was the first supposed "WoW killer". Trust me, been reading these forums for years lol.
Needless to say, Vanguard came out and flopped hard, since then though pretty much every new AAA title that has released had the bashers coming out of the closet claiming it to be the next "WoW killer", and of course nothing has done it yet, till SWTOR releases anyways.
Late TBC once it became apparent to everyone they were REALLY dicking around on content releases and expansions and everyone was burnt out.
My Little Panda
I would say it started well before WoW's release, somewhere when people first learned Blizzard was going to release an MMO. I was in a gaming clan as far back as 2001 when I first heard about Blizzard working on WoW and it was already getting bashed. Heck, I was one of the bashers because I was annoyed with WC3 (I never really liked it as much as WC2, the first Blizzard game I got back around 1996) and all I saw were female models in chain bikinis (something that irritates me in fantasy games).
Back then though we didn't speculate if it was a kiddy game or not. I think the bashing increased exponentially when the "kids" came in. Granted, Blizzard has a particular talent of releasing great games that attract the cesspools of humanity. Take D2 for example, one of the worst gaming communities I ever had the displeasure of being part of. A lot of those folks came to WoW, and a lot of them are now the bashers. It is no surprise to me that this game attracts negative people, or people who are unpleasant to be around in general. What is a surprise to me are people who have played previous releases and wonder about how bad the community is in WoW (there are lots of nice folks too though so the bad community in WoW is not as bad as some people would like to have you think).
I have noticed though, after ten years of visiting gaming forums and the like, all games attract bashers. Unfortunately, now it is cool to bash WoW; it is almost like institutionalized bashing. It is a bit odd because there is nothing truly seriously flawed about WoW, in comparison to some games that have attracted ire such as AO, AoC, WAR, Dark and Light, SWG, etc. It is also cool to bash WoW players, which is something I don't fully understand. Take me for example, I am a WoW player, but I enjoy many other games whether sandboxy, hardcore, whatever.
So in a way what we are witnessing is a form of general chauvinism bordering on a sort of them vs. us mentality that has become "acceptable" in ingame chat channels both towards the game and towards its players, whether those players are jerks or not. Sometimes I think that moderators should do a better job of clearing the serious bashers out.
Oh well, I guess the new kid on the block, ToR, is going to get bashed. It is cyclical.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I remember the WoW bashing happening when I was playing DAoC. I think that was in 2005 that I started hearing it. I didn't even know other MMO's beside UO, DAoC, and EQ existed and I definitely never tried any others or read about them, or even heard of mmorpg.com at the time. I played DAoC for a few years by then. Anyways, I'd hear people bashing WoW while playing DAoC, not even knowing what WoW was exactly. The community back then as a whole was used to highly group focuses leveling, harder and more complex gameplay, with little actual quests. WoW was pretty much the opposite of what we now call classic MMORPG's were at the time.
Im still trying to figure out how people let something like a game drive them insane, maybe they are just angry people in real life and need to find anything to vent against so they feel better.
plus i keep seeing people say "kids" when people are acting immature, do you mean just acting like kids or do you think they are kids? because honestly i have met only one kid ever in warcraft between the 4 servers i play on and the now 7 years ive been in the game, all the people acting "immature" as people say have been adults lol. maybe i just got lucky with the not running into kids part huh lol
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Seems like a lot of it started when WotLK came out. Not to say that there wasn't any before that, but when they started "balancing" PvP for arenas only I left. Open world PvP didn't really happen, and the game became all about entering queues (be it dungeons or BGs). So essentially you could level from 1-80 by standing in one spot. And yeah the guy who said when they sped up leveling is right too (although that is a sticky situation for every game, how to balance between new players and veterans).