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Want to know why Skyrim is so successful in the MMORPG crowd?

JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,283

It's because people have been playing MMORPGs like they are single player games for the last 6 years. MMORPGs cannot offer the same experience of SPRPGS because the world cannot be focused around every single person.

MMORPGs have one major advantage over single player RPGs that make up the difference for some of us, and that is the ability to play with friends and meet new people. The more and more developers get away from MMOs strong point (social) and focus on their weak point (RPG), the more and more people are going to leave the MMORPG community.

I love Skyrim for what it is, a single player RPG. It excels at what its supposed to. 

Now we just need an MMORPG to follow suit.

 

«1

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,011

    Exactly!  People who enjoy MMORPG's for the social interaction with other players (like myself) are not really interested in Skyrim not because it doesn't have great game mechanics (it does), but because there's no other people to interact with.

    Unfortunately, I'm part of a niche market and the typical MMO player is really looking for a single player game in their MMORPG design, with SWTOR being a good example of this.

    MMO's used to be about the story the players created for themselves, (in themepark games as well as sandboxes) and these days its all about the developer created story. (much like any single player rpg)

     

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  • NovaKayneNovaKayne Member Posts: 743

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Exactly!  People who enjoy MMORPG's for the social interaction with other players (like myself) are not really interested in Skyrim not because it doesn't have great game mechanics (it does), but because there's no other people to interact with.

    Unfortunately, I'm part of a niche market and the typical MMO player is really looking for a single player game in their MMORPG design, with SWTOR being a good example of this.

    MMO's used to be about the story the players created for themselves, (in themepark games as well as sandboxes) and these days its all about the developer created story. (much like any single player rpg)

     

    QFT!

     

    I think developers are missing out on the POINT of an MMO.  Not forcing people to be in groups but, making groups the reason to play the game.  All of the insta-group insta-que-to-dungeon type stuff really takes away from getting to know other people and forming groups.  That is how I met most of the people I currently play with!

     

    Ahh, but instant gratification and why should I pay to wait whiners squeek the most and get the grease.  Skyrim needs to add a social hub and you would find the new MMO players gravitating to it like it was the next Dungeon Siege!  Oh wait, isnt that the new Dungeon Siege?

    Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    I actually wish Skyrim had a co-op version, single player is OK, but I want to romp around Skyrim with my friends.    I personally think the reason why Skyrim is a such a hit with MMORPG players is simple -  this is the type of game play we've been looking for in or games - give us a virtual world - give us a "sandpark" - not a themepark - not a total sandbox - but a lot of both and let us play they way we want.    Sad that MMORPG game designers miss this.    Players don't want a total paint by numbers paint set...give them a lot of paints, brushes and canvases and let them paint!  Let them be creative.   Let them explore and find the game inside the game that they like to play - stop leading them around with a ring through their nose.    Skyrim is what an "RPG" should be like.   That is why MMO players are loving it - because Skyrim got the RPG part right and then placed it into a gorgeous virtual world.  

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424

    +1 OP

     

    My thoughts exactly, MMOs are lucky that Skyrim isn't Co-op, or noone would play MMOs anymore :)  It's still fun to chat with friends on 3rd party voice chat while playing Skyrim together though :)

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,037

    As much as I like Skyrim I'm lonely. I miss not having real players around me even if I never say a frikking thing to them. I cannot explain it even when I soloed in other games I still felt I was in a world filled with people because they were real people even when they said stupid stuff like discussing the latest political scandal or football. 

     

    I love skyrim but it is not a MMORPG  experience and it can never be that. I need both types of games in my life.

    image
  • BergirBergir Member Posts: 299

    I have to admit, the OP is right for many, but for me no, i've loved the Elder Scrolls series since the beginining. I posted something along these lines way back, mmorpg games have spilled over into the SP, huge launch tons of players, then a couple months later they leave on to next game, whether is be SP or MMO.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219

    Originally posted by cheyane

    As much as I like Skyrim I'm lonely. I miss not having real players around me even if I never say a frikking thing to them. I cannot explain it even when I soloed in other games I still felt I was in a world filled with people because they were real people even when they said stupid stuff like discussing the latest political scandal or football. 

    I love skyrim but it is not a MMORPG  experience and it can never be that. I need both types of games in my life.

    Same here^. It's a minor aside but ME3 will have co-op missions, fortunately. Think co-op would add a lot to Skyrim ^_^ though Betheseda are v reluctant about multiplayer.

    GW2 should have some decent single-player misssions as well as open world replayable events. In fact I think GW2 takes more than a few notes from GTA's book: Missions in a linear-ish progression plus "some sandyness" surrounding those to wander off to as well. Keeping levelling up/down regulated also helps in the pve world so as to avoid partitioning it up too severely. I suppose in Skyrim you can go anywhere and be good or bad to anyone which is tricky in mmorpgs...

    ...I think mmorpg's can learn heaps from good single-player rpgs and vica-versa (Technical issues of networks etc and all the social problems or reluctance of developers to introduce crime and punishment in mmorpgs for player characters also obstacles that single-player rpgs are fortunate to keep their workload down).

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek Member UncommonPosts: 1,258

    I have an admission to make - After finishing NWN and all its xpacs I have yet to finish any other SPRPG, I loved KOTOR and Vampire The Masquerade:Bloodlines even more but they are still unfinished and both still installed, I re-installed Oblivion to get myself in to the hype for Skyrim, it's a great game but I haven't returned to it since the first initial few hours. Online RPG's have spoiled me, I miss the social interaction. Skyrim looks awesome and I know I'll buy it at some point but I also know I'll miss having people around. If I'm playing a single player it tends not to be an RPG. I guess RPG = social to me these days and without that I feel like there's something lacking.

    image
  • xDayxxDayx Member Posts: 712

    For me, the RPG part is the most important thing in both.

    I am a "character player". The character I play becomes a personality, an extension of myself. Both types of games lack something that the other has:

    MMORPG's Lack: Story, and individualized content where you definately are the hero propheziced, and realistic open world as in Skyrim. 

    Single-Player RPG's Lack: Other people to play with and the ability to show or roleplay with others.

     

    While Im not calling for TES to make an MMO it would be nice to have aMMO with a Skyrim type of world where animals run around and random realistic 'events' happen.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Jimmydean
    It's because people have been playing MMORPGs like they are single player games for the last 6 years. MMORPGs cannot offer the same experience of SPRPGS because the world cannot be focused around every single person.
    MMORPGs have one major advantage over single player RPGs that make up the difference for some of us, and that is the ability to play with friends and meet new people. The more and more developers get away from MMOs strong point (social) and focus on their weak point (RPG), the more and more people are going to leave the MMORPG community.
    I love Skyrim for what it is, a single player RPG. It excels at what its supposed to. 
    Now we just need an MMORPG to follow suit.
     


    People who are social (as in talking to other people) in mmorpg are going to be social, regardless of the game's mechanics. I have no problems in any mmorpg being able to socialize (as in talking) with other people. Actually, the problem for me is getting people to stop talking to me.

    Now, if developers can make games a more social experience, more power to them. If they can do it without archaic features, even better (e.g. keep the dungeon finder while still creating a more social environment).

    I suspect Skyrim is as popular as it is because it is a freaking awesome game. It would be impossible to have something even close to the experience you can get from Skyrim in an mmorpg. Other people in there or no, Skyrim just offers something impossible to get anywhere else.

    ** edit **
    @xDayx - the problem with any sort of realistic ecosystem in a multiplayer setting is that the players mess it up. If Ryzom was a more popular game, there would be no migrating beasts, because at some point players would kill all the beasts. Ultima Online tried it in their betas and the players never knew it because they wiped the ecosystem out before it even had a chance to present itself.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,108


    Originally posted by lizardbones
    @xDayx - the problem with any sort of realistic ecosystem in a multiplayer setting is that the players mess it up. If Ryzom was a more popular game, there would be no migrating beasts, because at some point players would kill all the beasts. Ultima Online tried it in their betas and the players never knew it because they wiped the ecosystem out before it even had a chance to present itself.

    Exactly! The players in MMORPGs mess the world up, not the developers.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Unfortunately, I'm part of a niche market and the typical MMO player is really looking for a single player game in their MMORPG design, with SWTOR being a good example of this.

    MMO's used to be about the story the players created for themselves, (in themepark games as well as sandboxes) and these days its all about the developer created story. (much like any single player rpg)

     

    Sorry, but anyone who was unable to create his/her own stories and story worthy experiences in the MMO's they played, has only to blame himself and wasn't doing it right.

    Regardless whether I played a sandbox MMO, an oldschool MMO or a themepark MMO, I was ALWAYS able to create my own stories myself and participate in great stories that more players had a part in, all kinds of.

     

    That's the trouble, MMO gamers complaining about not being able to express themselves creatively because 'the game won't let them', while actually they're only showing how lacking they really are in creativity and entertaining themselves with the tools that are available, not the ones wished for.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

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  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697

    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    It's because people have been playing MMORPGs like they are single player games for the last 6 years. MMORPGs cannot offer the same experience of SPRPGS because the world cannot be focused around every single person.

    MMORPGs have one major advantage over single player RPGs that make up the difference for some of us, and that is the ability to play with friends and meet new people. The more and more developers get away from MMOs strong point (social) and focus on their weak point (RPG), the more and more people are going to leave the MMORPG community.

    I love Skyrim for what it is, a single player RPG. It excels at what its supposed to. 

    Now we just need an MMORPG to follow suit.

     

    Ive played RPGs sinds ninety's so its not becouse in last six years i play solo in mmo's hehe i follow Elder Scrolls sinds '98 when a new game comes im excited but i did not know it would be so good. Its on par with Morrowind only world is alot more realistic and life like, sometimes Morrowind was to much barren wasteland and thats not the case with Skyrim.

    It would be nice if it had little more mobs/npcs so more combat.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,273

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Kyleran



    Unfortunately, I'm part of a niche market and the typical MMO player is really looking for a single player game in their MMORPG design, with SWTOR being a good example of this.

    MMO's used to be about the story the players created for themselves, (in themepark games as well as sandboxes) and these days its all about the developer created story. (much like any single player rpg)

     

    Sorry, but anyone who was unable to create his/her own stories and story worthy experiences in the MMO's they played, has only to blame himself and wasn't doing it right.

    Regardless whether I played a sandbox MMO, an oldschool MMO or a themepark MMO, I was ALWAYS able to create my own stories myself and participate in great stories that more players had a part in, all kinds of.

     

    That's the trouble, MMO gamers complaining about not being able to express themselves creatively because 'the game won't let them', while actually they're only showing how lacking they really are in creativity and entertaining themselves with the tools that are available, not the ones wished for.

    I agree with you. One can and should use their own imaginations in order to create good game play experiences.

    One doesn't have to do the quests, one doesn't have to be led by the nose if they don't want to. One might also not have the same armor/weapons or be able to do everything in the game but I see this as a fair trade off. Do the things you want and make your game play experiences "good". Otherwise one is relying upon others to make their "good time".




  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367

    The irony these days is that 'social' mmorpg'ers seem to be in the minority now. Half the time when I try to talk with someone in a game I get treated like a leper for my efforts.

    So, If I will find myself alone most of the time anyways, I might as well play the best game possible for one person...so Skyrim it is!

    Now, add to that, better graphics, exploration, combat, crafting, housing, etc than most MMORPG's that it's a no-brainier. Hell maybe we should all get together and form a Skyrim Skype channel so we can all do 'guild chat' while we play our solo game!

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    -Writer
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  • EnerzealEnerzeal Member Posts: 326

    Skyrim has well and truly messed me up.

    It is pretty fantastic so far as a single player game goes. Its world is extensive, detailed and very unique regardless of the fact that is mostly a mountainous area. It is the most alive I have ever seen a world. Each NPC has a life, they all matter.

    My MMO recipe for awesome is...

    Take Skyrim.

    Increase world size even more. (it is already pretty big).

    Throw in building your own cities.

    Add in 5000 or so other human players per server concurant users.

    Slap on a PVP FFA full loot sticker as well as destructive enviroments.

     

    Enjoy.

  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788

    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    Skyrim has well and truly messed me up.

    It is pretty fantastic so far as a single player game goes. Its world is extensive, detailed and very unique regardless of the fact that is mostly a mountainous area. It is the most alive I have ever seen a world. Each NPC has a life, they all matter.

    My MMO recipe for awesome is...

    Take Skyrim.

    Increase world size even more. (it is already pretty big).

    Throw in building your own cities.

    Add in 5000 or so other human players per server concurant users.

    Slap on a PVP FFA full loot sticker as well as destructive enviroments.

     

    Enjoy.

    Everything but the last one and I'd play it.

    image
  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    Originally posted by alacres

    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    Skyrim has well and truly messed me up.

    It is pretty fantastic so far as a single player game goes. Its world is extensive, detailed and very unique regardless of the fact that is mostly a mountainous area. It is the most alive I have ever seen a world. Each NPC has a life, they all matter.

    My MMO recipe for awesome is...

    Take Skyrim.

    Increase world size even more. (it is already pretty big).

    Throw in building your own cities.

    Add in 5000 or so other human players per server concurant users.

    Slap on a PVP FFA full loot sticker as well as destructive enviroments.

     

    Enjoy.

    Everything but the last one and I'd play it.

    Same.  PVP FFA has ruined MO and DF, it's time to say goodbye to an extremely niche mechanic.

  • odinsrathodinsrath Member UncommonPosts: 814

    cuz alot of "old school" mmo players love sandboxes...skyrim is sandboxy  **most new theampark people dont want to admit it but if they love skyrim..they love sandbox mmo's**

    cuz alot of people that play mmorpg's love soloing ...skyrim is single player

    cuz alot of people are sick of cartoony grafix...skyrim looks amazin

    #1 reason for me is cuz the mmorpg market has gone to utter crap its either choose 1.a mmo or  2.b mmo and they both / all seem to be in the lines of the same boreing thing with childish grafix or quests with handrails so you never stumble on yur way

     

    imagei remember when i saw color added to this game ..it was the best thing sence sliced bread

  • xenogiasxenogias Member Posts: 1,926

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Exactly!  People who enjoy MMORPG's for the social interaction with other players (like myself) are not really interested in Skyrim not because it doesn't have great game mechanics (it does), but because there's no other people to interact with. 

    Kyleran, your comments are usually well thought out. While I may not agree with them all you at least put some thought into them. This statement though is so completely false I cant believe you even said it. 

    The ONLY reason I play an MMO longer than a month or two is the social aspect. I am counting actual game content in that. Dungeons with a group of friends = a social blast. However I do love my single player RPG's because *I* get to be the hero. I love them because I can get a sense of immersion that an MMORPG will never have like the OP said.

    But to generalize and say everyone who likes the social aspect of MMO's wont be interested in a srpg like skyrim is like saying anyone who likes FPS's wont like RPG's because its not fast paced enough. Both statements are false.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697

    Originally posted by Teala

    I actually wish Skyrim had a co-op version, single player is OK, but I want to romp around Skyrim with my friends.    I personally think the reason why Skyrim is a such a hit with MMORPG players is simple -  this is the type of game play we've been looking for in or games - give us a virtual world - give us a "sandpark" - not a themepark - not a total sandbox - but a lot of both and let us play they way we want.    Sad that MMORPG game designers miss this.    Players don't want a total paint by numbers paint set...give them a lot of paints, brushes and canvases and let them paint!  Let them be creative.   Let them explore and find the game inside the game that they like to play - stop leading them around with a ring through their nose.    Skyrim is what an "RPG" should be like.   That is why MMO players are loving it - because Skyrim got the RPG part right and then placed it into a gorgeous virtual world.  

    I myself have two good PCs at home who can easely run Skyrim, i would not mind if there was a co-op option so you could play with friend.

    Lan option would be perfect but i gues that out of question these days all these companys  want you to be perma online im affraid.

    2players im still not sure about 4 players.

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

    MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
    CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
    GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
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    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 10 64bit

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,273

    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    It's because people have been playing MMORPGs like they are single player games for the last 6 years. MMORPGs cannot offer the same experience of SPRPGS because the world cannot be focused around every single person.

    MMORPGs have one major advantage over single player RPGs that make up the difference for some of us, and that is the ability to play with friends and meet new people. The more and more developers get away from MMOs strong point (social) and focus on their weak point (RPG), the more and more people are going to leave the MMORPG community.

    I love Skyrim for what it is, a single player RPG. It excels at what its supposed to. 

    Now we just need an MMORPG to follow suit.

     

    Well I would say it's the opposite for me. I didn't start playing and loving Elderscrolls games because I've been playing mmo's "single player" I've been playing mmo's because back in 2004 when I tried one I thought it was going to be like Morrowind but with more players. And of course was sadly dissapointed.

    Teh highlighted part is not a concern for me. I have friends and I'm not actively going around meeting new people. I've been very blessed with the people I have met in mmo's but I don't play mmo's to be social per se,I play them to be in a living world with other people.

    In any case, mmo's can't be like an elder scrolls game because one is about you and your journey throuhg the world and the other is about many people occupying a small space and their interaction. In an elder scrolls game you can be in the wilderness far from civilization and it feels like that. in an mmo you are constantly surrounded by people in places where you should be alone.

    I think mmo players are interested in the elder scrolsl wolds precisely because they crave a more immersive experience.

     




  • paterahpaterah Member UncommonPosts: 578

    Originally posted by xenogias

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Exactly!  People who enjoy MMORPG's for the social interaction with other players (like myself) are not really interested in Skyrim not because it doesn't have great game mechanics (it does), but because there's no other people to interact with. 

    Kyleran, your comments are usually well thought out. While I may not agree with them all you at least put some thought into them. This statement though is so completely false I cant believe you even said it. 

    The ONLY reason I play an MMO longer than a month or two is the social aspect. I am counting actual game content in that. Dungeons with a group of friends = a social blast. However I do love my single player RPG's because *I* get to be the hero. I love them because I can get a sense of immersion that an MMORPG will never have like the OP said.

    But to generalize and say everyone who likes the social aspect of MMO's wont be interested in a srpg like skyrim is like saying anyone who likes FPS's wont like RPG's because its not fast paced enough. Both statements are false.

    Agreed with this and something to add to Kyleran: you can create your own story in Skyrim.

  • AkaisAkais Member UncommonPosts: 274

    I play MMOs because I dig the persistent world and I like to adventure with friends, both RL and those met in game.

    The games I remember most fondly had tons of this: AC, AO, Vanilla WoW so those are the games I played longest.

    But I like to do things by myself as well and all of those games also catered to that in some degree.

    Tons of community in FFXI, but you couldn't really venture alone and get stuff done (old FFXI).

    The other facet that made a difference to me was the story... All of those games had a story, I wasn't the center of it, but I could contribute and I felt my contributions mattered.

    Games like Skyrim are interesting for their story, and allow you to do stuff solo, but feel slightly sterile at the end of the day no matter how well made.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by odinsrath
    cuz alot of "old school" mmo players love sandboxes...skyrim is sandboxy  **most new theampark people dont want to admit it but if they love skyrim..they love sandbox mmo's**
    cuz alot of people that play mmorpg's love soloing ...skyrim is single player
    cuz alot of people are sick of cartoony grafix...skyrim looks amazin
    #1 reason for me is cuz the mmorpg market has gone to utter crap its either choose 1.a mmo or  2.b mmo and they both / all seem to be in the lines of the same boreing thing with childish grafix or quests with handrails so you never stumble on yur way
     
    i remember when i saw color added to this game ..it was the best thing sence sliced bread


    If the sandbox mmorpg that actually exist outside of anyone's dreams were like Skyrim, you'd be right.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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