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why so much hype
Pixi-Stix
Member Posts: 27
Just wondering, why is everyone thinking this is going to be the best mmo ever? Not trying to flame just wandering, and you guys are all making it sound like youve already played it.
Current game-Eq2
proud member of*Imperium Arcanum*
Retired-eq,CoH,FF11,Eqoa
Comments
A lot of people are very excited because this is a game being made by key members of the original EQ team, with some top-notch art talent on board, too.
We'll see.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I think the best way to illustrate is to compare to familiar games.
Many MMO gamers prefer old MUD-style gaming. Games that are dangerous to play, where accomplishments are not easily obtained, but are fairly difficult (difficult and time consuming are different things). Everquest, while it provided such a style of gaming, had a number of flaws. Travel was boring, the backstory mattered little, and you were impotent outside of a group. The biggest issue, however, was the time requirements: 5 hours plus to really acheive anything in one sitting.
Newer games, while they are not tedious, tend to trivialize acheivments. City of Heroes and World of Warcraft typify this. My WoW character, by level 30, is running around with gear more powerful than most level 65 characters in Everquest. As the game is so easy to play, it does not relaly give me a sense of acheivment. The sense of adventure, danger, and fear that we expect to experience in any fantasy world is not there.
Vanguard promises to improve on Everquest's problems, without trivializing achievment like Warcraft does. For example, rather than a long, boring boatride, travelling on the boats can be an exciting experience (as was demonstrated by Everquest 2's tutorial, and even more so if you got past level 30 there). Solo-ing will be a viable option if you can-not find a group, though grouping will still be the prefered option. There will be less dependance on "camping" than in previous EQ games.
For more information, I would suggest that you try to play some of the MUD's referenced in the Dev FAQs at the vanguard site.
As Neschria said, the game is being made by the original members of the EQ 1 team which was the game that made the mmorpg business what it is today. And also the art team is lead by Keith Parkinson who is an amazing artist. Hes one of my top four(Larry Elmore being my favorite of course
) favorite artist. He is personally contributing alot of art himself and when he is not, he directs the art department. I like how they are moving the game back to being more of a challenge as opposed to following the "lets make it real easy" route most seem to follow these days. Alot of people seem to agree that the best days of EQ 1 were in the beginning up until the Velious expansion pack. When they started to make it easier, thats when I think EQ 1 started going downhill. Yes some of the additions were nice but some was over done. Of couse the Sigil team was around for EQ in the earlier days and not the later. Hmm.... EQ getting worse after most of the originals left, go figure.
With Vanguard they are addressing all the flaws that they seen in EQ 1 and making sure they do not repeat the same mistakes with Vanguard. They also have the benefit of taking all their years of experience and also seeing what does and does not work in the current crop of games and making their game as perfect as it can be. I can't wait for it to come out. I currently play EQ 2 and also some EQ 1 but I will probably jump ship when Vanguard comes out. I also played WoW but it seemed too easy to me.(nice game though) I would suggest reading the faq in the Vanguard site. Its really long and detailed.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Im really looking forward to this game. Ive tried lineage 2 , dark age of camelot , everquest 2, some other horrible game i seriously burned it was so bad and the biggest upset ever, final fantasy online....
THEY ALL SUCK
Everquest had it right....you fought tooth and nail in everquest to get something and even if it was absolute garbage by todays standards you felt that you really earned it and nobody put you down or laughed at you.What was cooler than going to the actual temple of veeshan and killing dragons? The sense of humor like the plane of mischief....
Something terrible happened to everquest with the release of shadows of luclin.....that terrible thing was that the guys making vanguard left and sony lost sight of what they had and turned everquest into a powerleveling twink game all about gear, you didnt earn anything anymore and the only way to kill something was a guild raid....if you had a life you might as well quit the game.
This game shows so much promise because the guys that gave that game so much feel and as trivial as it was the story was amazing, you worked you got rewarded you felt great. Yard trash wont drop the sword of ultimate destruction and most importantly the boats will probably even work! I dont care about the adventure on the boats tho its a plus, im just glad they will probably work.....
Those guys who started everquest did it right, they left...sony killed a wonderful game and turned it into a mindless power gaming PoS.....
The guys who had a vision and knew how to make a story and a game are making a new game.....It cant possibly be anyworse than the crap , like everquest 2 and WoW , they are trying to pass off these days...so how can you not be excited?
Well...
To say that EQ creators are all in Vanguard is an overstatement, many remain with SoE. It would be more appropriate to say Kunark creators are in Vanguard...Brad the father of raiding. Raiding can be nice as long as nobody but raiders need to raid. Raiding affecting groups and solo is not fun, was never fun, will never be fun...unless it would be both ways(solo equally affecting raiding? Nobody would raid, if you cut 1 way of the bridge, you need to cut both way).
The best groupers and the best soloers hardly ever raid, and it should show and affect how the game dynamic evolve, you dont want peoples who hardly group be the ''gods of grouping'', they dont deserve it and it ruin the game to make it so.
But both teams have my interest in future release.
Accomplishment is great, but I disagree with the feeling of Veeshan, it was not fun, was never fun, was never interesting, as far as I am concerned, to have to be with more then a group...anything raid oriented was not fun, I have nothing against raiding, as long as it dont affect me in anyways. To bad they still think solo is for casuals, but well, I am both a soloer and a grouper, they still have a big part of my interest.
Instead of making achievements relevant only in the ''high end'', it would be easy to work a level cap on every dungeon and work a ''high end'' system for each level cap, by spreading it so wide, making it so wild, the casuals can easily pick a dungeon or 2 and be good there and achieve a lot there, that almost no hardcore will ever achieve because they are busy competing with each others in harder dungeons and should a player max something eventually, leave a lot to max. (Levels cap also protect pre-expensions zones from becoming irrelevants, of course the hardcores will move to the hardest and leave them behind, but they still have everything they have as before and players would spread even a little more and enjoy all type of zones, those zones would be appealing to some casuals because they can convince some hardcores to come group with them there, because those hardcores never lose whatever they work in those precise zones...). It is more then time to have a non-linear A is better then B which is better then C, that dont work, A is better then anything else in a A dungeon, however in a B dungeon B is better then anything and so on...
Specific servers rules is what keep my interest into that game. A non-raiding server is an acceptable solution to me, exactly like a non-PvP server was an acceptable solution, as long as they dont affect me, I cant care less what happen there(I want the same rewards unless they pay more $ on every servers however, so you need to redistribute the loot in a grouping fashion on those specifics servers). If they could work raiding another way that dont affect me, it would be acceptable as well(unlimited levels that dont become exponentially impossible would work, but again, nobody would raid there...I think raiders should depend on others stats and be unaffected by levels, so a level 1 can be the best raider...killing goblins is not exactly going to help you fight Gods and dragons).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It is accurate to say that there are more EQ developers (including original developers and including the first two (Steve Clover and myself) on Vanguard than any other project. Yes, SOE as a whole still employs a lot of people who have worked on EQ, but they are spread out on all sorts of different projects. Check out the current members of both the EQ Live and EQ 2 teams and compare them to who is on the Vanguard team -- I think you'll see that we have the biggest concentration of former/original EQ developers by far.
As I've said elsewhere, if you liked the original EQ and the first couple of expansions, I really think you'll enjoy Vanguard.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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That s why am so excited about this game man!
Hope you can delivery the hype
A big part of me want to believe this...but we will see. In 1999:
- The word raiding would have been answered with a ''What do you mean exactly?''.
- Back then, from my gaming experience, I didnt even think 1 moment possible that a game would offer no real rewards to soloers, since solo mean that YOU achieve something rather then hide behind others. If you can solo in any game back then, the reward is just accordingly bigger in the worst cases.
- I left the only MUD I try after 2 weeks thinking it was a game designed by lame peoples, for lames peoples(I abuse the spell to summon someone who think it was a bright idea to jump and PK me while I was not even at ease with the commands of the game, which lead to lames managers to have a chat with me and open defiance + insults from me, and not only did I never apologize, I expect THEM to apologize for wasting my time if they ever want to open the chat again). So a no PvP game was something new in itself...
- I was younger, which mean more socially inclined as with most persons...the older I get, the less social I become, yet the nicer I also turn, since I actually care less and less about meeting peoples and simply enjoy been alone, more and more. Also...I have no shortage of RL friends or activities, in fact I still think I have to many of those(yet I try to be nice and fight the urge to cut contacts, maybe they need it more then me). Which mean that any social activity that is a pain(waiting LFG) will not be acceptable or tolerated much.
- I was thinking that ''waiting'' could be fun while mana come back, but it was not thinked over. It was not because I enjoy it. It was because I did play another game that was like that and that I enjoy it a LOT, so copying a bad feature from a game I really like was not tolerated, it was perhaps bringing the memories of this game while I was waiting...I would not wait more then a few seconds for mana to come back...back in EQ I could wait 15 minutes to kill only 2 spawn.
Bottom line is I change, the market prolly have change as well. I dont think peoples will bear as well some mistakes that where acceptable, like if raiding get the best rewards, I dont think it will be tolerated very well in any game those days. Dont read me wrong, I wish no harm to raiding, as long as it dont affect me in any negative way I can think of, since after been ''abused'', I am quite paranoid against raiding. So if playerX get something nice while raiding and use it in group...I would not be wasting my time and leaving player & friends enjoy a whole empty world of me & folks like me.
PS: Just by missing a few keys elements(and there are far more then a few key elements in SoE IMO), Vanguard is indeed quite different then what Verant was ever. Dont read me wrong. You could have 90% of the original staff and be the most creatives devs as well. However,the final result would be extremely different from the original Verant. And...we didnt even consider that you, or the market, evolve during those years.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I can easily say that Kunark was the best expansion EQ1 ever received.
I can easily say that Kunark was the best expansion EQ1 ever received.
Kunark was great, but Karnor's Castle..../shudder. I used to think lguk and solb trains could be bad, but KC will always be my EQ nightmare.
Never had too much problem with trains in KC... Just have to avoid the entrance is all
Had some good times with trains in Karnor's, but none of those zones got quite as bad as unrest. Now THAT was a rush as a lowbie, though being a monk with feign death trains were nevera threat.
As for vanguard, i have complete confidence that Sigil will deliver.
"We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some whore he picked up in town."
-Jack Handey
Ahh cannot believe I forgot about Unrest and the fond memories there. /shudder x2
It is accurate to say that there are more EQ developers (including original developers and including the first two (Steve Clover and myself) on Vanguard than any other project. Yes, SOE as a whole still employs a lot of people who have worked on EQ, but they are spread out on all sorts of different projects. Check out the current members of both the EQ Live and EQ 2 teams and compare them to who is on the Vanguard team -- I think you'll see that we have the biggest concentration of former/original EQ developers by far.
As I've said elsewhere, if you liked the original EQ and the first couple of expansions, I really think you'll enjoy Vanguard.
This is the reason Im putting my faith in Vanguard. EQ1 was incredibly fun pre-Luclin. I really liked the challenge, and the fact that ppl didnt run around with Mighty_dragonslayer_of_doomfire at lvl 1. Getting somewhere was tough, but far from boring. Ok, waiting for boats etc wasnt that uber but thats supposed to be fixed in Vanguard right?
And it seems to be quite group-focused which I think is great...soloing just isnt my thing, Im much to social for that.
Woo, KC trains was a blast. My No.1 train station. Mistmoore wasnt that bad either.
I dunno why some people consider a game "attractive" when u have to spend two days without sleeping just to get a sword or anything else. Maybe that is appealing to some hard core players and i completely understand that (i was one of them)...but you have to realize that more than half of the player base are people that have jobs, have a wife, kids, etc, and do not have that huge amount of time to play a game.....which at the end the word says it all by itself: A GAME, a thing designed to make you have fun!
Also, i dont know why some people demand the game to be played always in groups. That is something that should be required for just few things, not for all!! and specially not to advance!! The reason? same as above...time requirements. Imagine coordinating not only with job, family, wife, kids, dogs, etc, but also with 10-15 other people (whom also have same issues) in different time-zones across the country to set up a schedule to just go kill some guy who drops a sword...do u really think you are gonna get it? noooo..so? you will have to do it 10 times with the same guys to wait for your turn to get that sword. Your Odds? almost zero...by the time your turn is up...no one is gonna help you. And yes....that happens a lot to people (like me) who is not a hard core gamer.
Maybe, that can be balanced with "Hard core servers" and "Casual game servers" (if you have better names to it, then welcome) or something like that in which the difficult on one is higher than the second one. Dont you think? Drop rates are lower and rare than in the "casual gamers servers"..dont you think that would help? I think it will do. Since they say they are putting up a set of rules for each type of server....why can't they implement this? I think that is a good thing.
Why I think this will work? Because U just have to give a look to WoW...you may say whatever you want, but that game is the most succesful one so far...that proves what i am saying. The only constant complaint about WoW is coming from hard core gamers who find the game somewhat easy..right? then? where is the success coming from? I'd say that not exactly from hard core gamers....but from people like me, with jobs, wife, etc, etc. who cant spend that amount of time and still want to feel that achievement is something real in the game.
Dont you remember those old games in which you simply selected the difficult in which you wanted to play???
Just to make an example in WoW terms (because is the game I am playing now): what if you would have been able to go inside the Deadmines ( a level 20-25 dungeon as is today) when you were only level 10?? Nice right? How?? well..the only option is raiding it. With a group of 20-30 (say the number u want) level 10s that would be possible.. and on top of that if the boss only drops the XXXX item only once every 12 hrs....bam!!! you have what you are looking for Mr. hardcore gamer....right? difficult, raiding groups and rare drops.
I hope this can be implemented in Vanguard. I am a casual player..cant be the other type..
I look forward to this game but if it is going to be that difficult and time consuming...bye, bye.
Well...this is my 5cents in this.
i don't think so
First of all, I think its too early to say that WoW is the most successfull MMO ever. They did a good job attracting subscribers, that I can admit, getting the old school MMO players and the Warcraft fans who are new to the genre. But its impossible to say how many subscribers they will have in 1,2,3 or 5 years. Everquest is still the most successfull MMO since it had about 500,000+ subscribers for over 5 years.
From what you write I assume you dont like the EQ style MMOs, which are "big timesinks". Well, the creators of Everquest is making this game and they've stated that it will be tough and grouping will always be the best way to go. It will probably not be the best choice for ppl with 30min a night to play.
My question is this (not only directed to Pasho): why must a mmo cater all different player needs? It sounds impossible for me. "casuals" think EQ is too tough/takes too much time and "hardcores" think WoW is to easy. You already got EQ2 and WoW for your casual, solo needs, now why cant the hardcore player base get a new game, EQ style? EQ needs to be replaced after beeing online for 7 years. I think (this is just my opinion) that Vanguard will aim for that playerbase. And if you dont like it, you got lots of new game that lets you solo through the entire game or get the uber sword after 30min.
I agreen with that.
I don't understand why people want every game to be either for Hardcore or Occasional players.
Game devs know already since they start to dream about the game which particular market they gonna aim for.
Games like Vanguard, D&L, Darkfall are aimed for CORE players (don't confuse with Hardcore)
Games like GW, WoW, CoH are aimed to occasional players.
I don't understand why Occasional players goes on Vanguard Forum complaining that the game should be more solo friendly, as I don't understand why a Core player goes on WoW forum and complains that WoW suxx because it is too easy.
Those game have been designed for different audiances there is not point in trying to change them, cause it will never happen.
PS: I t is ok giving positive or negative opinions, but starting flaming wars about things you will never be able to change, it is plain silly (I am not referring to anyone in this thread, I am just talking in general)
Why so much hype? very easy, is not only the developers, or the screenshots, it's the world, their ideas about what a mmorpg should be, game concepts...
I hope that this game will have that "something" that made Everquest special, a "something" that WoW lacks.