that is an odd use of words my friend. For onehey were persistent , they had a central keep/tower and you fought for control, and 3 way PvP with-in those areas. To say anything compairing instanced and timed PvP to a whole zone that was persistent and everlasting. yeah. NO DAoC didnt have your battlefields sir
It had actual BG's as well as the frontier... They were 6v6 I believe or was it 8v8? I don't quite remember it's been a long time. But they did have BG's they were more or less a downsized version of the frontier keeps, seige equipment was fun to use, although ballistas were a tad bit overpowered at those level ranges.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
that is an odd use of words my friend. For onehey were persistent , they had a central keep/tower and you fought for control, and 3 way PvP with-in those areas. To say anything compairing instanced and timed PvP to a whole zone that was persistent and everlasting. yeah. NO DAoC didnt have your battlefields sir
daoc had instances battlegrounds, granted they were really for low levels, but they were there.
also rumor is bioware has open world PvP objectives. I don't know anything about that though... I really hope it does.
An “A” for cinematic production value, but a potential “D” for PvP within one of 3 instanced, small shoe-box mini-map, non-consequential, redundantly re-played, 8-player team vs 8-player team attack/defend or e-sport hot-potato scenario.
I’m still waiting on this “massively” multiplayer I’ve heard so much about. I’ve seen a ton of single-player and CORPG game-play, which still lands this title in that game-play segment, but am anticipating finding out how this is a mmorpg.
So...open world PvP objectives on the planet Ilum isn't considered massively multiplayer, huh? Your definition must be very narrow.
that is an odd use of words my friend. For onehey were persistent , they had a central keep/tower and you fought for control, and 3 way PvP with-in those areas. To say anything compairing instanced and timed PvP to a whole zone that was persistent and everlasting. yeah. NO DAoC didnt have your battlefields sir
daoc had instances battlegrounds, granted they were really for low levels, but they were there.
also rumor is bioware has open world PvP objectives. I don't know anything about that though... I really hope it does.
they talked a bit about it at pax prime. here is video of what they said:
that is an odd use of words my friend. For onehey were persistent , they had a central keep/tower and you fought for control, and 3 way PvP with-in those areas. To say anything compairing instanced and timed PvP to a whole zone that was persistent and everlasting. yeah. NO DAoC didnt have your battlefields sir
daoc had instances battlegrounds, granted they were really for low levels, but they were there.
also rumor is bioware has open world PvP objectives. I don't know anything about that though... I really hope it does.
they talked a bit about it at pax prime. here is video of what they said:
I'm sorry, but there is nothing at all innovative about SWTOR's PvP system. It is exactly like WoW - only with fewer people.
SWTOR has a few good things going for it. PvP, Freedom, and Social Quality are not amung them.
It's so funny how people get so mad when one speaks against SWTOR.
I think a lot of people also find it funny how people who're burnt out on themepark MMO's feel the need to discredit SWTOR with conjecture and sometimes downright lies.
Why can't people just say 'I don't like WoW styled themepark MMO's anymore', why does it always have to go accompanied with lies or speculation presented as truth?
If someone dislikes themepark MMO's, fine, nothing wrong with saying it. PvP, freedom and social quality however are very subjective opinions, there's little claims you can make regarding PvP and freedom unless you've played or are one of those people who can only credit PvP and freedom when it's done in a sandbox MMO.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
An “A” for cinematic production value, but a potential “D” for PvP within one of 3 instanced, small shoe-box mini-map, non-consequential, redundantly re-played, 8-player team vs 8-player team attack/defend or e-sport hot-potato scenario.
I’m still waiting on this “massively” multiplayer I’ve heard so much about. I’ve seen a ton of single-player and CORPG game-play, which still lands this title in that game-play segment, but am anticipating finding out how this is a mmorpg.
I don't know. It sounds to me like in your definition and viewpoint even WoW and LotrO aren't MMORPG's because, hey, all of their features are apparently single-player and CORPG game-play.
Then call them what they really are; CORPG's since 80% of their game-play is either single-player or cooperative-online RPG play. Just so happens, we havent seen that "massively" multuiplayuer 20% game-play with SWTOR yet. Just saying.
Anyway, these days games that lobby 100's of players across mirrored shards, even in a series of single-player maps or adjacent to an instanced COOP room are callling themselves mmorpg's; guess its the cool thing to do. Worked with Ace Online, Global Agenda, World of Tanks, etc.
But since Richard Garrett coined the term "MMORPG" with UO, which was "massively" multiplayer, as long as more shallow games that have a hint or mix of that origonal meaning with sparsely sprinkled elements of it in their game, it's ok, even if it isn't true.
I'm sorry, but there is nothing at all innovative about SWTOR's PvP system. It is exactly like WoW - only with fewer people.
SWTOR has a few good things going for it. PvP, Freedom, and Social Quality are not amung them.
It's so funny how people get so mad when one speaks against SWTOR.
So let me see, They have the people who had make the best PvP game of the last 10 years (DAOC), but from your point of view they just made a PvP like WoW. Men u are just a genius, (sarcasm Off). im a DAOC and WAR veteran, without a single doubt, the pvp in swtor is more like that, than wow.
We decided that we would call our battlefields warzones because our game is unique and is in no way just a clone of wow with lightsabers.
Good thing WOW has no battlefields but battlegrounds then ^_^
You, my friend, has won this thread.
He should have said Rift instead, they call it Warfronts :P
I don't understand why battlegrounds/warzones are so despised, instanced areas with many controlled variables is the best way to provide a balanced PvP
There are Open World PvP for whoever wants it as well, an entire planet(s) is dedicated to Open World PvP, with territory control (one poster put a link above)
Both parties are happy in the end, no need to hate on something that you don't like, when the developers provide other options as well.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I'm sorry, but there is nothing at all innovative about SWTOR's PvP system. It is exactly like WoW - only with fewer people.
SWTOR has a few good things going for it. PvP, Freedom, and Social Quality are not amung them.
It's so funny how people get so mad when one speaks against SWTOR.
Capture and hold has been a part of wargames since forever and it has been a part of irl war history since forever. It will be in most of mmorpgs because, why the hell not?
Also what's wrong with WoW's instanced PvP system? It's perfect, there are two teams against eachothers in a competitive balanced map with ageless classic objectives like capture the flag and capture and hold that most people have grown to love, only problem it has there is only one type of map on each scenario, and the first ones are getting OLD! Since I dont see no Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin in TOR I'm afraid you are wrong about the "exactly like WoW" part.
+TOR has WPvP with meaningful content. All I see is good and good.
I dont want to see new Battlefield to have objectives to grow flowers in a garden instead of capturing and hold position, just to be original. I hate forced original failure modes tbh.
SW:TOR has a lot of game content in the launch game....that's really important, and players I think will savour the launch game for its size and complexity, Warzones are a good example.
I don't know. It sounds to me like in your definition and viewpoint even WoW and LotrO aren't MMORPG's because, hey, all of their features are apparently single-player and CORPG game-play.
Maybe you should first define what you consider MMORPG or massively using the examples of wellknown themepark MMO's like WoW, LotrO or heck, pick EQ2 or AoC if you like. I'm certainly interested in your elaboration.
Then call them what they really are; CORPG's since 80% of their game-play is either single-player or cooperative-online RPG play. Just so happens, we havent seen that "massively" multuiplayuer 20% game-play with SWTOR yet. Just saying.
SWTOR has from what I've seen and read so far, shown enough of its MMORPG or 'massively' components, that's why I asked you the simple question in the part of my post that you didn't quote.
I've re-added it in blue in my post: according to you, what makes themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO and AoC etc '" MMORPG's", what is that 20%?
Really is it that hard a question to answer? It seemed simple to me, you state that SWTOR hasn't shown its massively side or MMORPG side, then the simplest thing you can do is just give examples what you considered the massively/MMORPG elements of other themepark MMO's.
At least we'd know if what you're trying to claim or state would make sense and have some valid grounds.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
MrBoots you're beating a dead horse, no one gives a fuck anymore, we all know it's wowstyle with starwars and those who enjoy that will enjoy that. Just move on.
For christmas i wish for the majority of the community in mmorpg to be as wise as this guy.
Comments
It had actual BG's as well as the frontier... They were 6v6 I believe or was it 8v8? I don't quite remember it's been a long time. But they did have BG's they were more or less a downsized version of the frontier keeps, seige equipment was fun to use, although ballistas were a tad bit overpowered at those level ranges.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
daoc had instances battlegrounds, granted they were really for low levels, but they were there.
also rumor is bioware has open world PvP objectives. I don't know anything about that though... I really hope it does.
So...open world PvP objectives on the planet Ilum isn't considered massively multiplayer, huh? Your definition must be very narrow.
they talked a bit about it at pax prime. here is video of what they said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0VwCeRokmJM#t=2375s
also footage of the planet ilum can be seen here in this recent trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GsxdMtGs3AU#t=76s
thanks!! hadn't seen those bits
lol @ everyone jumping on boots.
I'm sorry, but there is nothing at all innovative about SWTOR's PvP system. It is exactly like WoW - only with fewer people.
SWTOR has a few good things going for it. PvP, Freedom, and Social Quality are not amung them.
It's so funny how people get so mad when one speaks against SWTOR.
what is funny is how many peeps speak **** about TOR and they have not played it yet
PS: to all the negative talkers see you at launch
It will be a few years before SWTOR decides to mimic World of Pandacraft, so we are safe.
I think a lot of people also find it funny how people who're burnt out on themepark MMO's feel the need to discredit SWTOR with conjecture and sometimes downright lies.
Why can't people just say 'I don't like WoW styled themepark MMO's anymore', why does it always have to go accompanied with lies or speculation presented as truth?
If someone dislikes themepark MMO's, fine, nothing wrong with saying it. PvP, freedom and social quality however are very subjective opinions, there's little claims you can make regarding PvP and freedom unless you've played or are one of those people who can only credit PvP and freedom when it's done in a sandbox MMO.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well, I think you're trolling is too obvious with a signature like that. I think you should tone it down.
Instanced match PVP? yawn.
Then call them what they really are; CORPG's since 80% of their game-play is either single-player or cooperative-online RPG play. Just so happens, we havent seen that "massively" multuiplayuer 20% game-play with SWTOR yet. Just saying.
Anyway, these days games that lobby 100's of players across mirrored shards, even in a series of single-player maps or adjacent to an instanced COOP room are callling themselves mmorpg's; guess its the cool thing to do. Worked with Ace Online, Global Agenda, World of Tanks, etc.
But since Richard Garrett coined the term "MMORPG" with UO, which was "massively" multiplayer, as long as more shallow games that have a hint or mix of that origonal meaning with sparsely sprinkled elements of it in their game, it's ok, even if it isn't true.
depending on how Ilum is handled it could be quite different from what WoW has.
So let me see, They have the people who had make the best PvP game of the last 10 years (DAOC), but from your point of view they just made a PvP like WoW. Men u are just a genius, (sarcasm Off). im a DAOC and WAR veteran, without a single doubt, the pvp in swtor is more like that, than wow.
You, my friend, has won this thread.
He should have said Rift instead, they call it Warfronts :P
I don't understand why battlegrounds/warzones are so despised, instanced areas with many controlled variables is the best way to provide a balanced PvP
There are Open World PvP for whoever wants it as well, an entire planet(s) is dedicated to Open World PvP, with territory control (one poster put a link above)
Both parties are happy in the end, no need to hate on something that you don't like, when the developers provide other options as well.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Capture and hold has been a part of wargames since forever and it has been a part of irl war history since forever. It will be in most of mmorpgs because, why the hell not?
Also what's wrong with WoW's instanced PvP system? It's perfect, there are two teams against eachothers in a competitive balanced map with ageless classic objectives like capture the flag and capture and hold that most people have grown to love, only problem it has there is only one type of map on each scenario, and the first ones are getting OLD! Since I dont see no Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin in TOR I'm afraid you are wrong about the "exactly like WoW" part.
+TOR has WPvP with meaningful content. All I see is good and good.
I dont want to see new Battlefield to have objectives to grow flowers in a garden instead of capturing and hold position, just to be original. I hate forced original failure modes tbh.
SW:TOR has a lot of game content in the launch game....that's really important, and players I think will savour the launch game for its size and complexity, Warzones are a good example.
SWTOR has from what I've seen and read so far, shown enough of its MMORPG or 'massively' components, that's why I asked you the simple question in the part of my post that you didn't quote.
I've re-added it in blue in my post: according to you, what makes themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO and AoC etc '" MMORPG's", what is that 20%?
Really is it that hard a question to answer? It seemed simple to me, you state that SWTOR hasn't shown its massively side or MMORPG side, then the simplest thing you can do is just give examples what you considered the massively/MMORPG elements of other themepark MMO's.
At least we'd know if what you're trying to claim or state would make sense and have some valid grounds.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
For christmas i wish for the majority of the community in mmorpg to be as wise as this guy.
/respect
Can't beleive how anxious I am for this game, this doesn't help.......