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Why!?!
Painlezz
Member UncommonPosts: 646
Can anyone please tell me what keeps the few people still playing this game around?
I gave it yet ANOTHER try and I just can't see anything good. I'll list my complaints that really kill it for me and see if anyone has anything useful in response! My GF and I are looking for something to do for the next month or two!
1) Combat is horrible. Why? The cooldowns are just bad. I created 4 different classes and they all suffer from the bad combat. You click an ability, wait for it to cast, wait for cooldown, click next ability. NO QUEUE system. If you arent spamming the button then you're missing time between attacks.
It does not feel fluid. I fully understand the need for cooldowns, but the way they did them in this game really kills the combat.
2) Visuals - Nothing special. Nothing stands out as anything better or worse than any other game. I will give it props in that it runs perfectly on max settings. We tried EQ2 and that game runs horribly on max settings (it's like 10 years old or something?) and barely runs "OK" on normal settings.
3) Pretty sure we found Bots or automated NPC's talking in global channels. Not sure if this is developers trying to make game look more populated, players cheating, or maybe we're mistaken?
4) Class selection pretty dull. More so than the average. The unique "thing" about the classes was only in place to LIMIT what a player could do. Not offer them additional tools and enjoyment. Druid for example has a pool of points that regenerate over 60 MINUTES. A full hour to regenerate points. You should never have to wait hours to use minor abilities that heal or do damage. Summoning a HUGE pet to destroy everything, or rez an ally in combat might have a 10-20 minute cooldown but a basic direct damage spell that uses a pool of points that takes hours to regenerate? BAD!
5) UI is pretty terrible. Took us a while to figure out how to move icons around. You have to Click, hold, wait, then it will move. The lock/unlock options have nothing to do with this.
Spell icons provide little to no real information about the abilities. Tooltips on the quickbars are actual auto-generated macros. You often have to open your spell book to see details on an ability. Otherwise you'll just see /macro "Cast bla bla bla" or something similar.
I'm sure there are other things that haven't come to mind while writing this.
I think we'll end up playing rift together. It might be a clone of wow or other popular MMO's but at least the combat feels enjoyable, the population is active, the UI is decent, visuals are on par with everything else, and you can't complain about class selection when you can be just about everything on 1 character 
Comments
Maybe it's just not for you. I personally don't really agree with any of your complaints. Cooldowns? I guess I just deal with them. Graphics? Fine for me, though character design does strike me as dated. Class selection? Best class selection in any game I have tried. I find it odd that you suggest Rift has good class selection as I left Rift because to me it had horrible class selection. In the end it has only 4 classes with the room to play around with different combinations, but the same combinations as everyone else. And for the druid points I'm assuming you didn't get to level 10 where they get an ability that changes that? Most classes don't really do anything too exciting till level 10 and some get really interesting around 15 or 20. As for the UI, I have no issues with it. If I want to read what an ability does I open my abilities and read it. I do find moving icons around tricky at times but then that takes maybe an extra second. I keep tabs on Rift and hope that one day it has enough development to lure me back as I have friends still playing it.
I think we'll end up playing rift together. It might be a clone of wow or other popular MMO's but at least the combat feels enjoyable, the population is active, the UI is decent, visuals are on par with everything else, and you can't complain about class selection when you can be just about everything on 1 character
I,think this last statement says it all,many of VG's players don't want the same old for want of a better word WOW based gameplay VG is more a mix of old AC2,Asherons Call with the best crafting system since Horizons.
Throw Diplomacy faction based gameplay and more features u can shake a stick at and with a little love VG could be a suprise to to those who yearn for something a tad different.
Also i would venture that the OP is not of my generation ie:did u play Rogue Online with a 56bit connection or went through the Dark and Light Fiasco,or were online when Eve servers did their regular Sunday crash and pretty much exploded the night they hit 10000 online,Now that is something to complain about.
Rift was technically very good but they did not push the boat out,but Sigil did try failed at first but after many problems survived,if SOE keep their promise i'll be a very happy camper and so will a lot more if the in game chat is any indication.
yeah i don't really agree with you on most of these things. My thoughts:
1, combat - if you want a certain type of combat then a game that doesn't have it will be lacking. for me I just take the combat for what it is and just get used to it. So vanguard's combat "is what it is".
2, I definitely disagree with this but with something like art design "your mileage may vary". There are some areas that suffer and some amazing vistas. I mean, look at the Vanguard screen shot thread. There's some nice stuf fin there. Still, it's uneven, part of the troubled development for the game. But for me, seeing the great sites softens the blow that I get when I see something that could have been done better.
3, I've never seen that and don't know why anyone would really be using bots. You would have to be more specific as to how you know they were bots for me to give a better answer.
4, I also disagree with this. Necromancers where you can alter your own beast? Disciples that are part sword wielder, part monk and part healter? Rangers that can be either melee based or Bow based? I love my dark elf dread Knight. I can't speak to why a druid has this recharge. maybe it's a lore thing? dont' know. I would also look at this as "it is what it is". or essentially, you have these abilites and there is a huge cool down. Use wisely.
5, yeah the UI does some issues. It's part of the wonkiness that Vangaurd still retains so it's something that has to be endured.
And yet I only liked Rift for the invasions, didn't like the combat for the most part.
In the end the game was just not for you. But at least you gave it a try so cheers for that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I've tried Vanguard 3 separate times now, and just have not been able to get into it. I agree with basically every complaint you listed, with the exception of the visuals. I do think that the game is very nice looking visually, with a massive, beautiful world. Everything else you listed is my experience as well. It's too bad, too. I really wanted to like this game.
Rift combat is overly spammy and macro driven. The population is moderate and steadily declining (way better than VG, but worse than, say, an EQ2 Server), UI isindeed decent, graphics are technically very good but the art design itself, to me, is bland. YMMV of course. And you sacrifice unique flair in your class for flexibility. More playstyles per character, but less playstyles overall.
This post to me seemed like a post that was made to draw attanetion to Rift as opposed to express your feelings on VG.
I consider Rift vs Vanguard an apples to oranges comparison. While both are themeparks, Rift is a modern one while Vanguard is far more retro in design. From my understanding, the draw of Vanguard is that it's not a modern themepark.
I find all your complaints accruate, except for the one about the bots. I completely agree about the classes and how limited they are. And I find the cool downs really irritating when I am getting hammered by adds. I really agree with you on the UI, especially when some settings aren't saved. Most of the other players I know use third-party UIs.
I could add to the list. We could talk about the crafting: not knowing what the finished product will be or look like. We could talk about diplomacy and how hard it is to progress at lower levels with wild level and presence disparities in specific locations. We could talk about the absolute grind that levels require. This game almost requires a masochistic dedication. Boats and houses are cool, but you have to bust your ass to get them and then they're buggy.
But I keep coming back for more!
There's always stuff to do. I would love it if I could get my girlfriend to play. This game is so much deeper than LotRO and EQ2, the games we do play together. I complained about Diplomacy, but it so much fun when you get good at it. I complained about crafting but the progression quests, work orders and learning continental styles still keep me busy. And with a good group, the level grind can be a lot of fun with the gazillion of places to adventure and quest and dungeon crawl.
And I kinda like the slower pace of the battles, because it makes me think about the skills I use, and, I am old and slow.
I would love to see this game get some tweaking.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
You can't take the opinion of a guy who says Vanguard is visually nothing special very seriously.
Everyone has to find his game. for me all the stuff like UI, classes, all that gameplay stuff is secondary. in VG this is ok to good for me just like in most other MMOs.
for me the world and atmosphere matters. that's what touches my heart and ties my to a game. and VG did not look like a theme park to me like, Telon has the feeling of a real existing world with great opportunities to roleplay, complex history and just flair. ships are pointless? maybe, but i love to sail the oceans and to anchor in the harbor of Khal with it.
I have the feeling that they made VG to create a beautiful world with a lot of depth and love. When i played Rift I had the impression, they tried to just make a game which gives money. it's fine if you play that, but personally I look for something i can dream in and that touches me emotionally. VG does that to me. Rift did not. It feels commercial.
so you aksed "why?" there only can be a personal answer. what's fine for one player is bad for another. the world and atmosphere catched me so i stay.
I think this summed it up pretty well.
This is called: "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
While I have also seen games with more stunning visuals (LotRO and AoC), discounting all of the OP's opinionated observations because of one is a bit daft.
I love playing Vanguard, but I find it interesting how many other fans of it do not want to talk about its flaws. The graphics and the visuals are showing their age in this game, that's a fact. They're still awesome, but many games do it better now, even if they are not open world. This is especially true on the newbie Island. While the Island is indispensible for tutoring and gearing for all, it really doesn't show off many of the things that make Vanguard unique. It was probably designed by the same person who gave us that cursed, flying deer...
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
Rifts combat is more enjoyable?
You macro your skills so you only needs to press 1-2 keyes during a fight, might aswell buy a chimp so you don't have to press a single key at all in Rift
Besides i really doubt you even leveled up any of the classes you have tried to lvl 15+ sounds more like you leveled to around 5 and then rerolled another class.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
You are right, it is an oversimplification. I just know as far as the world goes, Vanguard is nice to look at. The character models themselves are not great though. I also think it has plenty of character class options and it seemed like every class is more unique than in games that come out nowadays too.
All that said I am not a fan of Vanguard. It is an MMO I have always wanted to get into but just never could. Still I think it is unique and a bit old school nowadays so I hope it continues to survive and maybe someday even get me to stay.
I tried vanguard several times over the years over the years but couldnt get into it for 2 reasons: lack of players, slow levling in the early levels.
Visually this game is stunning, and i wish this game had been a success so i could have roamed this land, but no one to play with just kills the purpose of a MMORPG...
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I loved Vanguard, only game I have really liked that has been released in the last 5 years or so.
Vanguard has good PvE, interesting classes, good harvesting (common/rare/ultra rare spawns, and group harvesting), involved crafting that is too much for some, but very good.
I am keeping an eye on what Sony is doing, if they seem to be serious about putting resources and bringing out content, I may come back. I would like to see a pvp server or both brought back if the population gets to where it would support it, and they are willing to fix the pve vs pvp problems that got screwed up.
4) Class selection pretty dull. More so than the average. The unique "thing" about the classes was only in place to LIMIT what a player could do. Not offer them additional tools and enjoyment. Druid for example has a pool of points that regenerate over 60 MINUTES. A full hour to regenerate points. You should never have to wait hours to use minor abilities that heal or do damage. Summoning a HUGE pet to destroy everything, or rez an ally in combat might have a 10-20 minute cooldown but a basic direct damage spell that uses a pool of points that takes hours to regenerate? BAD!
Its nice how you only mention the things that benefits you, besides you are looking at it the wrong way. And much of what you are witing is plain WRONG.
Its only a few spells that requires Phenomenon points, and its EXTREMELY powerful spells. That ofc are not to be used all the time, thats why they are limited. Besides you have an ability that gives you back all Phenomenon points ever 15min. 15 MINS + they regenerate automatically. thats hardly a bit downtime eh?
Summoning your pet doesn't require Phenomenon, not before level 30 at least, which I am.
You got one BIG ASS damage spell that more or less kills a 3 dot monster, which has has a few mins cd, and costs alot of Phenomenon points. Then you have a heal over time spell which costs Phenomenon. And a few more, like root, and a small damage spell.
But they are just some extra flavor to the druid, and not part of their standard spell, which includes many damage spells, and damage over time spells, rooting, and HEALING. Yes you can heal perfectly fine without Phenomenon.
The druid is fine without Phenomenon, I actually think with the Phenomenon abilities it makes the druid kinda op in certain situations. But its a fine addition, and system to do something new, and to give you some extreme abilities to save your asses once in a while. How the hell can you fail to mention all this?
I tried rift 3 times, combat on rails is not for me, I found with vanguard if you get an SSD HD it cuts down on all lag as the game suffers from some performance issues but still is a classic game
Vanguard is combat on rails too.. but it does have more rails.
When I played a few years ago the end game was terrible. Not only was the combat boring in terms of progression, but the "raid" guilds were overly snooty. They were very similar to the old EQ1 raid guilds where there would be one or two on the server and they just treat new people like garbage. You know the 2 month trial process, app, interview....
When I finally got in and started raiding I found out they had loot based on officer decision.... which they only gave loot to the devoted members...
I'll take LoL ragers over that any day. The silly vanguard raiders can play in their dead game (and yes its dead just like DAoC is dead).
Bad experiences in raid groups how shocking!!! Hey if you were in a guild and they did that just quit- that guild sucks. In Vanguard you can just wander around and take quests here and there very different from rift
O yea This
Can't really compare Rift and Vanguard, Rift's open world is about the size of the smallest continent in Vanguard. Rift is a small place, filled with everything.... over-abundance on maps, tons of mobs and invasions and buildings and rifts. Does not feel "natural" to me.
Yes Rift has it's nice things but Vanguard also has flavour: guild halls, player housing, insane crafting, diplomacy, how about those? Sure, it lacks in population, the number of people who like slow, meaningful advancement and planning is way way smaller compared to those who just want to smash things.
On my 2nd char i went 1-50 in 1 week in Rift, as there was nothing "new" to do, in Vanguard i plan things for months, got alts in all tiers to be ready to join my guildies when they want to run a low dungeon and i can surely say that every time i rolled an alt, each and every time i've found something new and exciting in the game.
After the first month of Rift, when boredom hits you, give Vanguard another chance. Search for Twylighte Song, the "new player" guild, they're still going strong and will be happy to have you. Vanguard is not a solo game.
If everyone who complains about the lack of population would actually come back, the game would be revigorated.