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Aion gone "Pay to Win" now

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Comments

  • heimdall22heimdall22 Member UncommonPosts: 76

    Originally posted by Hyp47

    wats up with all the QQ about this cash item, u want it you buy, you dont want it you dont have to buy, simple as that, in my case ill just continue with the old socketing system.

    Well, let me tell you what is up.

    1) I've paid for the box

    2) I've paid for the doubtful privilage to be able to play this game. Every month.

    3) Now I CAN pay to overcome badly written mechanics that force me to spend my time to do boring and dull things to earn ingame money to buy my stones. 

    4)Funny enough, nobody touched the subject that you may buy Ingame money indirectly from NCSoft ( by buying weapon remodels in NCSoft store and resell them for Ingame currency)

     

    Well, it's their game and they are entiteled to do with the game whatever pleases them, but I won't participate in their treadmill and get sucked and cheated at the same time.

    Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation

  • VaultFairyVaultFairy Member UncommonPosts: 566

    I was waiting to see what 3.0 is going to be like but if this is the future of Aion then i don't want to be a part of it. Did enjoy the game but i found it so bland, it couldn't entice me anymore.

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    Originally posted by Hyp47

    wats up with all the QQ about this cash item, u want it you buy, you dont want it you dont have to buy, simple as that, in my case ill just continue with the old socketing system.

     

    So can we buy kinah now from the dev ? image

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    Originally posted by VaultFairy

    I was waiting to see what 3.0 is going to be like but if this is the future of Aion then i don't want to be a part of it. Did enjoy the game but i found it so bland, it couldn't entice me anymore.

     

    Just hit 32 last night, was also looking forward to 3.0, with the player housing, mounts etc.... but now...

    I'll stop once i hit 55 and find another game....

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • VaultFairyVaultFairy Member UncommonPosts: 566

    Originally posted by arctarus

    Originally posted by VaultFairy

    I was waiting to see what 3.0 is going to be like but if this is the future of Aion then i don't want to be a part of it. Did enjoy the game but i found it so bland, it couldn't entice me anymore.

     

    Just hit 32 last night, was also looking forward to 3.0, with the player housing, mounts etc.... but now...

    I'll stop once i hit 55 and find another game....

    You did better than me i only got to 27! Housing and Mounts look really interesting in the trailer. Kind of get a feeling that they will charge you rent for your house image

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by itgrowls


    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance, that's not the same as pay to win. Pay to win is where you can buy entire armor sets, entire weapon sets that are on par with max raid content gear. It's where your games gear directly effects your toons damage output. Buying enhancements for gear is nowhere near the same thing.

     

    To use World of Warcraft as an example, because so many do, this is the equivolent of buying enchantments for your weapons and armor with real life money.

     

    But i do agree, their game is broken ESPECIALLY if they are still using a failure mechanic at max skill for any kind of gear enhancement. That's just plain rediculous. It's as rediculous as the mechanic used in EQX for crafting anything.

    It's still pay to win, because you're paying extra money to guarantee you do not fail. Not failing is succeeding, which is synonymous with winning. It's not an "I win" button, but it is paying to win the 'mini-game' lottery that is socketing.

    The socketing system is an intentionally designed inconvenience that's been put into the game, that many players seem to outright despise. Instead of actually correcting the system and changing it into something players would tolerate better, or actually enjoy, they instead sell a "solution" to an intentionally created problem. That's pretty damn sleezy from a business point of view.

    Sorry, when you say Pay to Win it might mean something different to yourself, but to everyone else online it means Pay to Win the game. not pay to win in a slot enhancement. Pay to win the game is what Pay to Win means and it was originally coined as such to describe people who can pay real life money to be a success at the game, not a tiny piece of the game the entire game itself. That includes, raiding, pvp, dungeons etc not enchantments. So your little attempt at a redefinition is as fail as Aion trying to improve revenue by not fixing and inherent problem with their enhancement system with a store item. I don't agree with what they are doing, but it's STILL not pay to win until they sell you ACTUAL gear. Can you slot one of these things as a shield or a weapon? no. 

    Slotting a purchasable item (purchasable with RL money)  to use as a weapon or armor piece = pay to win.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,580

    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    Originally posted by twodayslate


    Originally posted by avalon1000

    Just a reminder that Lord of the Rings has a cash shop that can improve  your gameplay and it is NOT Asian. 

    Supplementing something that isn't working properly with a paid "fix", vs. offering XP boosters/ingredient packs/non-game altering items that are unnecessary fluff.

    Pretty big difference there.

    This is the problem. pay2fix. It is every bit as bad as pay2win, maybe worse. I don't mind if the game has a cashshop in addition to a sub but this kind of design takes advantage of a design flaw to gain profit. If this design is frustrating people enough to encourage them to pay $5 to by pass it then it probably shouldn't be there in the first place or at least needs to be toned down. Another way of looking at it is to ask yourself what keeps NCSoft from cutting the success rate of socketing in half in order to increase sales of this item. This is a huge conflict of interest. Pay2fix is why so many f2p games are horridly designed. This simply encourages a company to maintain and even further develop a bad design.

    With a true p2p game, the incentive is to balance fun with challenging with not too frustrating and so on. Even if they sell barbie cloths or pets in the cashshop. At least they have an incentive to make the game fun by default.

    This is very frustrating because I just returned to the game and am having fun with it. And while I don't like the fetish with RNG that is all over the game I can live with it in isolation. But I will not support a game that sets itself up to encourage and profit from an arbitrarily frustrating design.

    You hit the nail on the head as did Avalon.  Selling fixes for bad game design or putting game enhancements soley through a cash shop sucks and it's the worst sort of game design.

    It seems cash shops aren't there as an alternative.  That was just a little bait to help desensitize us to the idea that it's okay to gouge.  Ever notice how a lot of cool fluff is only available in a cash shop?  We used to actually game for that stuff.  A lot of gamers gave publishers a pass on that because the gear is appearance only, but what it amounted to was removing game play items to a cash shop.  They are now using the same principle to add new game features, fix broken mechanics, you name it.

    If it doesn't stop, and I doubt it will, then eventually all of our games will gouge and double dip us in this way.  I wouldn't mind cash shops if they were just a lazy alternative, but publishers aren't happy with that.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • EpicentEpicent Member UncommonPosts: 648

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO

    I normally can't stand the "OMG PAY TO WIN" crybabies...but this isn't the case.  This one IS actually pay to win.  With a few bucks you can completely bypass the absolute frustration of trying to socket a fabled set.  One of the things I used to talk about to compliment Aion was the fact tht there aren't any guarantees: there's always a risk that you could lose something: XP if you die, sockets if they fail, etc.  This is no longer the case, and it's a sad day.

    Looks like these will only be for sale until October 12th.  For the sake of the game, let's hope they never return but the damage may have already been done.  It's enough for me to consider never going back, and I"ve always defended this game in the face of strong criticism.

    even if it ends on the 12th they will still have massively OPed people due to this. If anything, its worse that they put it in then take it out because people that come after will never equal the people that took part and bought them. christ.........am i ever glad that I didn't get past the first month on this game.

  • MMOtoGOMMOtoGO Member Posts: 630

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO


    Originally posted by itgrowls


    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance...

    So what does this "enhancement" do? It makes you hit harder, live longer...it helps you win.  You pay money, you save the insane amount of gold/time it takes to achieve the equivalent in-game.  It's literally millions and millions of gold and potentially months of time.  What you say is true... a bad player who spends real life money might still lose.

    a tiny enhancement is still not enough to allow you to win. It's only a tiny enhancement. Like it or not it's still not pay to win.

    If it was a "tiny enhancement" then why on earth would any store even sell enhancements? If they didn't matter, why sell them? The fact is: they do matter, and that's why western players have been griping about how long it takes and how expensive it is to enhance gear.  Instead of providing a fix for free, they are simply selling the fix for a profit.

    You and I will agree to disagree on how important enhancing your gear is in Aion.  It's HUGE imho.  Do you know how many enhancement slots are on fabled gear and how many stats are on each stone?

  • EpicentEpicent Member UncommonPosts: 648

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance...

    So what does this "enhancement" do? It makes you hit harder, live longer...it helps you win.  You pay money, you save the insane amount of gold/time it takes to achieve the equivalent in-game.  It's literally millions and millions of gold and potentially months of time.  What you say is true... a bad player who spends real life money might still lose.

    a tiny enhancement is still not enough to allow you to win. It's only a tiny enhancement. Like it or not it's still not pay to win. It's pay to save time. (and apparently save lots of sub money and heartache since they apparently still have failure in enchanting in this way in game) but that's it. If they sold gear, then yes it would be pay to win because gear by itself with it's stats enhancements would give you a huge advantage over just one or two points in enhancements. It's a tiny enhancement compared to the stats enhancements on gear. So yes it might give you a 1-2% increase in health or damage but that's not an instant win button, sorry, the math for this doesn't work that way.

    actually..............if 2 players are equally skilled and would use the exact same skill sets..............at the exact same times........and one has slightly better stats, the one with the better stats would win. that aside, even in a real pvp situation i have played games where in my personal experience different enchants that i have on gear have made my win ratio go up. you are PAYING money to have an edge in battle so that you can have a better chance of WINNING.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803

    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Having XP bonus items in the EQ2 cash shop is bad but this is just crazy.  I was thinking of giving Aion a try but I won't now.

    It also doesn't speak well of the path GW2 is headed down either.  I can see some crazy cash shop nonsence coming for that game.

  • MMOtoGOMMOtoGO Member Posts: 630

    Originally posted by Epicent

    Originally posted by itgrowls


    Originally posted by MMOtoGO


    Originally posted by itgrowls


    Originally posted by MmoSwan

    http://uk.aiononline.com/news/announcements/limited-time-felicitous-socketing-supplements-ncsoft-store

    A sad day for Aion. NcSoft fixing their broken game with a cash shop. Now you got the option to spend 1000s of hours of grind to beat the random number generator or to pay extra $$$.

    Uhm i hate to break it to you but this isn't pay to win, it's called Pay to Enhance...

    So what does this "enhancement" do? It makes you hit harder, live longer...it helps you win.  You pay money, you save the insane amount of gold/time it takes to achieve the equivalent in-game.  It's literally millions and millions of gold and potentially months of time.  What you say is true... a bad player who spends real life money might still lose.

    a tiny enhancement is still not enough to allow you to win. It's only a tiny enhancement. Like it or not it's still not pay to win. It's pay to save time. (and apparently save lots of sub money and heartache since they apparently still have failure in enchanting in this way in game) but that's it. If they sold gear, then yes it would be pay to win because gear by itself with it's stats enhancements would give you a huge advantage over just one or two points in enhancements. It's a tiny enhancement compared to the stats enhancements on gear. So yes it might give you a 1-2% increase in health or damage but that's not an instant win button, sorry, the math for this doesn't work that way.

    actually..............if 2 players are equally skilled and would use the exact same skill sets..............at the exact same times........and one has slightly better stats, the one with the better stats would win. that aside, even in a real pvp situation i have played games where in my personal experience different enchants that i have on gear have made my win ratio go up. you are PAYING money to have an edge in battle so that you can have a better chance of WINNING.

     

    This poster also seems to forget that without a guarantee, POOF all of your sockets are gone...even if you're on the 5th or 6th one... all of them, destroyed and you have no sockets.  The guarantee truly is pay to win.  Again, I'm not one of these crybabies that hates cash shops or even f2p games.  Facts are facts.

  • MmoSwanMmoSwan Member Posts: 134

    Originally posted by itgrowlsa tiny enhancement is still not enough to allow you to win. It's only a tiny enhancement. Like it or not it's still not pay to win. It's pay to save time.

    So having a few months of a big gear advantage where you win since you paid money isn't "pay to win" because after those months others might have the same gear? Not sure if I share you logic.

    || Languages for gamers: http://gamerslingo.com
    /where God
    ERROR: Target could not be found
    /target Believer
    /skill science
    You missed your target since Believer ignores science
    /skill logic
    You missed your target since Believer traded all his INT for faith.

  • Shroom_MageShroom_Mage Member UncommonPosts: 863


    Originally posted by Hyp47
    wats up with all the QQ about this cash item, u want it you buy, you dont want it you dont have to buy, simple as that, in my case ill just continue with the old socketing system.

    They're telling everyone, "Yeah, we've got a solution to this awful mechanic, but first you have to pay extra." If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it, but you can rest assured that you will never be provided a reasonable solution.

    Socketing is succeed or fail. Win or lose. You pay extra and automatically succeed. It's literally pay to win.

    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  • KuppaKuppa Member UncommonPosts: 3,292

    cash shop on top of monthly fee?! sounds bad....

    image


    image

  • TGSOLTGSOL Member Posts: 274

    A system intentionally designed poorly to be annoying and frustrating so that they can sell you a fix, despite the fact that you've payed for the box AND pay a monthly fee? And some people are ok with this?

     

    Sweet. I think I'll start a web hosting company that sells web-space with both an upfront and standard monthly fee, and then instead of guarenteeing 99% uptime like most (respectable) hosting companies, I'll intentionally design my server software poorly so that it crashes every once in awhile and charge a fee to fix this purposefully created problem. 

    Apparently, people are stupid enough to tolerate this sort of crap, so I should make a fortune.

  • sassoonsssassoonss Member UncommonPosts: 1,132

    Originally posted by TGSOL

    A system intentionally designed poorly to be annoying and frustrating so that they can sell you a fix, despite the fact that you've payed for the box AND pay a monthly fee? And some people are ok with this?

     

    I agree with you

    Its outrageous. MMO are just trying to milk as much as possible.

    Purposefully they put hindrance to the game and then charge for temprorary fix

     

     

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

    Grr, it greedy...

    I don't like Aion as found it too boring grinder.
    Not sure if idea of sub & cash shop works well too.

    Hope GW2 will not be ruined with NSoft ideas....

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • TalinTalin Member UncommonPosts: 819

    This is simple - "Eastern" MMO player mentality related to grinding and cash shops just don't work in the "West". Until publishers and developers consistently recognize this and change gaming dynamics - which is more effort to maintain code and publish updates - bad decisions from one cultural perspective will often happen.

  • mizanyxmizanyx Member Posts: 70



    Originally posted by TGSOL
    A system intentionally designed poorly to be annoying and frustrating so that they can sell you a fix, despite the fact that you've payed for the box AND pay a monthly fee? And some people are ok with this

    You talk about it as if P2P mainstream titles weren't guilty of similar 'marketing strategies'. Like charging per month and then basing the game off tireless timesinks deprived of real fun. Both marketing models have their dirty tricks.

    Probably the best of the bunch and the eventual winners of the market will be the action based, F2P games with cash shop, like League of Legends, S4 League, etc. Ask anyone, they will prefer to be fighting frantically to kill thousands of identical mobs only to farm some mats or to kill the same boss over and over only for the slight chance to get a piece of the next tier set.

    In conclusion, P2P games are guilty too of milking cash from the user with no real FUN.

  • DiSpLiFFDiSpLiFF Member UncommonPosts: 602

    and that is why i'll never play another game associated by any means with NCsoft. 

  • HalandirHalandir Member UncommonPosts: 773

    Originally posted by DiSpLiFF

    and that is why i'll never play another game associated by any means with NCsoft. 

    While I liked a lot of things (besides the massive gear dependence and RNG) in Aion I will never return with this move.

    The bad decisions in Aion is not going to keep me from buying GW2 though. ArenaNet has handled their cashshop extremely well in Guild Wars, even if it is B2P.

     

    We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
    (repeat ad infinitum)

  • MmoSwanMmoSwan Member Posts: 134

    Got SW jerkin drop today. Bought 80 Attack +5 stones, used all of them -> SW jerkin had a max of 2 slots filled. Then used 83 attack +3 stones and had 3 slots with +3 stones in end. Tried to fill up the remaining 2 slots with HP +70, loosing all attack stats.

    Nearly 2 hours of non stop frustration, resulting in nothing but money burnt, I'd call that broken by design. And now they want their players to pay cash to fix this? Don't think it's worth the over $100.

    || Languages for gamers: http://gamerslingo.com
    /where God
    ERROR: Target could not be found
    /target Believer
    /skill science
    You missed your target since Believer ignores science
    /skill logic
    You missed your target since Believer traded all his INT for faith.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,129

    Are you kidding me $100 ? That is a lot of mullah to get a good jerkin no thank you. My god what a rip off.

    Chamber of Chains
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    Originally posted by mizanyx

     






    Originally posted by TGSOL

    A system intentionally designed poorly to be annoying and frustrating so that they can sell you a fix, despite the fact that you've payed for the box AND pay a monthly fee? And some people are ok with this




     

    You talk about it as if P2P mainstream titles weren't guilty of similar 'marketing strategies'.

     

    And you talk about it as if it's ok.

    I'm getting fed up with this rationalisation and justification of what is pure BS for the customer tbh.

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