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"Final Fantasy Brand Greatly Damaged" - Yoichi Wada
Falice
Member Posts: 329
At a Tokyo press conference, Square Enix CEO Yoichi Wada said, with reference to Final Fantasy XIV, "The Final Fantasy brand has been greatly damaged."
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/119/1196805p1.html
I agree, FF has been poop for some time now.
Comments
I thought the brand took a dump back in 1997, but I guess their accountants know better.
I can agree with that, the name of the brand has most certainly been tarnished.
Not a fan of the MMO's, but even the single player FF's have been downhill since FF7 imo. Everything after that one just hasn't compared to it.
FF8/9 were passable, X/X2/XII/XIII were my least favorites and even the upcoming XIII-2 has some issues i'll need to ignore in order to enjoy it.
Going downhill during all these years, and just keep on getting worse?
Still you don't realize you keep on voting "satisfied customer" with your wallet, since you're continuing to buy the games, right?
OT: The CEO is right. The FF brand has been damaged, no doubt about that.
I havn't bought an FF game since FFX (that was really the tipping point for me) :P the rest were rentals/borrowed and the MMO's were played at a friends.
Yes, it has been damaged though for quite some time. Basically FF14 just put the final nail in the coffin. There is no escaping that video game tomb imo.
I agree on the single players, I liked ff11 at least before they wowified it and made the game a total joke with Abbysea, Now I won't touch it again. Its kinda sad, I used to love the ff series but now a new one comes out and I couldn't care less.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
FF 13 was one of the worst purchases I've ever made, but sadly so was DA2. I refuse to buy another game unless it scores a 90 metacritic or higher.
Wholeheartedly agree. It's been getting noticably worse and FF14 really just threw it back at them.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Id loved to see a Good Final Fantasy that returns to its turn based roots. not this crazy hybrid button smashy thing its become.
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Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
I thought the nes and snes ones were the best. Although I did enjoy the PS versions. But ya, now its just poop in a nice wrapping (the final fantasy title)
While I agree that FFXIV definitely damaged the FF name in ways beyond words I completely disagree with the comments saying how the franchise has been going downhill since 7. FF8 was actually my favourite of all the titles up until I played 12 which quickly overtook 8 as my all time favourite and I believe the reviews and player reception for 12 was similarly positive. Granted 13 wasn't as brilliant as some of the past titles but 10 was almost as ground-breaking for the PS2 as 7 was for the PS1 when it came out. Similarly FF11 was well received when it came out and held a good chunk of the MMO market for years (biggest mmo playerbase of all until WoW came out iirc) and even after WoW came out it held a steady subscription base of around 500k players until the recent decline (partly in relation to 14's launch but cmon what do you expect after the game has been out for almost a decade).
All in all the FF titles have enjoyed varying levels of critical and commercial success but saying that the franchise has been in steady decline since 1997 is completely ridiculous. So far only FF14 has been both a commercial and critical failure (yes it's inarguably a failure) so much so to the extent that it's affected the percieved quality of the entire franchise. Nevertheless I still believe FF13-2 is headed to some degree of positive commercial (maybe even critical) reception and I'm sure some of you are also looking forward to FF versus 13 just like I am.
http://www.youtube.com/ffxivartist
FF14 is the last brand game i am ever buying, i felt like i was mugged in broad daylight with "MUG" written on my forehead..
My favourite is 8 and 10. I also liked 5, 7, 9 and X-2.
I did not see FF XIV that bad at the start but it seems they had no realistic plan for development after release and the rework of the game seems to be such a huge task that they could make a whole new game out of it.
The new breed of mmos will finish them off and of all options what is left is to become a console mmo.
I apreciate they try to make it a better game but as mmo you have 2 ways to progress:
Start big, fly high and let the good winds carry you away for a long time.
Start little, niche, become bigger over time.
They missed both...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
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You nailed it. In terms of the quality of the story telling the Final Fantasy series has been going down hill since FF6 and FF7. FF12 was an improvement but unfortunatly the director Yasumi Matsuno (The only talent Square-Enix has left) lost his mind or something so he didn't direct anymore FF games.
My theme song.
You thought FF12 was an improvement? It had a worse storyline than FF4-10, and the gameplay matched. That being said, I did enjoy the battle system more than FF8, so it was a slight improvement there... but that's not saying much. I even consider that piece of garbage FF13 to be a step up from FF12, and it was so terrible I couldn't enjoy it passed maybe the first hour because all of the characters were FUCKING STUPID and in every way as unrealistic as a game can get. At least make the characters somewhat believable so one can emotionally connect. The black dude was actually done very well in the bit of the game I played, and was the best character in the game by far, but that's it.
To sum that up: Yes, the FF brand has been greatly damaged. However that should not come as purely FF14's fault, because Square-Enix just doesn't know how to make games anymore.
PS: No matter how much work they do on FF14, I can't see myself going back. It's always gonna feel like a small team of modders are fixing it in their basement, like people who fixed Oblivion with unofficial patches.
Yes I've read all the posts and am an avid FF fan but I also feel that I'm also going to drift away from the "norm" of some of others on the FF games and series in some areas. Then again we're all entitled to our opinions. First off, FF7 is probably notorious for 3 primary areas: for being called a "overly-hyped" game, for helping to sell the Playstation and for really selling the genre Final Fantasy was a part of. It also deviated from other FF games in terms of introducing more abstract philosophies that would weave in and out of proceeding FF games and also really introduced more open worlds and activities; Chocobo racing and Golden Chaucer being examples.
Unlike others, I don't think FF7 was a sign of the game going downhill. At some level FF7 wasn't released with the idea of being a "hyped game" because RPG's were still a somewhat niche market. It was heavily advertised undoubtedly but games like Metal Gear were really games that caught more attention. So you have to respect FF7 for bringing RPG's to the public's atention more than other games.
That said I also think FF7 had 2 problems: people who hated it said it was a deviation from the "lore" of FF and some approved it. You can see how FF8 continued the lore and "technological world" more and then you get a shying away of it in later FF's so I think there was a period of identity crisis which confused fans. I really have no comment on FF X; I don't think I want to even know where to begin on that one. I also think that, akin to what everyone else says, FF12 drew heavily on elements of FF11 from the battle system to gameplay so Inever thought it was this "magically innovative game" when they were doing it with an online version of FF.
FF11 did bolster the FF series and its job system was unique to mmo's as well. I think what realy hurt their next escapade into FF14 is, much like some FF11 players would agree with, they took little time to address the fan base and their ideas and desires. They also tried to introduce too many new ideas in a brand new environment. Not that its such a bad thing but there are general game elements players likle seeing. More importantly there are too many game elements that, while you can argue old shcool mmo'ers might not worry about, too many players either got used to them or expect them to exist. Auction Houses are probably the biggest thing to point to; some of the grand-dady mmo's didn't use them but more of the bigger and popular mmo's use them and its hard to ditch it. Also while the idea of job skillsets were unique it was just a world that didn't capture an involve you as much as FF11 did.
I'll probably be a lone wolf in saying that FF14 didn't destroy Square but I'd agree with the CEO that it did hurt their image and ability to really make a new mmo that is based on the FF series. They are still making other mmo's outside FF but they won't be as big as an FF mmo.
Problem with FFXII, according to "game bible" that English translation team was given in order to translate the game as accurately as possible, is that it's basically not even a half of what it was intended to be. Hell, there are even rumors that it wasn't even meant to be a FF game in the first place and that Matsuno had some radical ideas of his own (no numbers at all, characters emoting their status, etc) before the budget got too high and SE had to bank on the FF name to sell the game which in return lead to corporate priority meddling and Matsuno leaving because of it. Rumors, mind you, but so are those that Basch was supposed to be the main character of the game.
To me FFXII is one of the better games in the series simply because it tried something new (politically oriented story with pretty much no angsty after the first 5 hours), but it is also undoubtedly the most flawed game in the series, counting even XIV (which is bad due to sheer design decision stupidity and supposed outsourcing of the game systems) and XIII (because it's subjective, corridors aside).
As for the "greatly damaged brand name" I believe the answer falls under "no sh*t, Sherlock".
Well being that it takes place in the same world and time line as the FF Tactics and Vagrant Story games it's a FF game. But I pretty much agree with you. I'm not saying FF12 was "the best" I'm just saying it was a step above FF8-10 and FF13 and FF14. A step in the right direction that unfortunaly lasted 1 game in the franchise.
My theme song.
It's so sad. I was about as loyal to Final Fantasy as a customer could be to a franchise, eagerly awaiting every new release. Several of the classic FF games are easily my favorites games of all time: 6, tactics, 7, 8, 9, and 10. Now I'm only vaguely interested in any of their new projects. I think part of the problem is that they've spent so much time developing MMOs using much of their main team and incorporating them as part of the main numerical series, causing them to only have released 2 single player console FF games in the last 10 years! In the glory days, Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9 and 10 were all released within a 5 year period! We've gone from almost one great game per year to 1 (many players would say not so great) game every 5 years.
Now I have my own opinions of FF12 and 13 (I actually really enjoyed my first playthrough of 12, and despised every moment of 13 after the first 5 hours), but this isn't exactly the time or place to incorporate full reviews of both games. Suffice it to say that there's no way will I blindly buy the next FF game before renting it or trying it elsewhere first next time.
I'm going to give FFXIII Versus a try. It looks good and it looks like they are going to try some new things.
My theme song.
I seriously believe that FF are losing its player bases, mainly because they are putting more emphasis on Graphics and not that much on stories anymore. My favorite is still Final Fantasy 2 and 3 , or in their actual titles Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI
These two games actually made you feel like you are part of the world, uncovering the secrets and actually hate the bad guy and wanting to destroy them. FF 7 continued that formula with some update on Graphics but still give you a huge world to explore. Making the world that they created yours as you explore every Nook and Cranny that is there.
Then slowly they shrink the worlds, made the stories simpler until FFXIII took the next major step of making the game linear but with better graphics. You are no longer an participant, we gamers are now a Spectactor, but who wants to be a spectactor in an Final Fantasy Game.
I doubt they will ever go back to their story driven formulas for FF games, but I really hope that FFXIII and FFXIV have knocked some senses into them. So that they know that Stories about characters that we care about , or will care about regardless of whether or not they are evil is the key to their success.
Stop giving us some stupid teenager , Give me Cecil , Give me Locke , Give me someone that is mature but with faults. Someone that people can relate to.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I think why many people disliked FF (single player games) after final fantasy 9 was because Final Fantasy turned into a linear experience (in my opinion) rather than an open world experience.
I did enjoy the story immensely in FF10, but I did not enjoy the lack of an "open world". It seems many games after FF9 turned into more linear worlds rather than fly your airship anywhere/land anywhere.
Final Fantasy 11 (online) was pretty fun in my opinion. I loved the job classes and the ability to mix and match, it blows the new FFXI? online out of the water in my opinion.
I do agree that the whole FF name is going down the drain and they really need to go back to their roots, maybe release a Final Fantasy Tactics 2 with a seriouse story line/graphics, (FF Tactics advanced was too kid-like in my opinion), and go back to open world Final Fantasys. I haven't played FF13/14 so maybe they do have open worlds...but I don't Think they do?
I am not giving up on FF yet, but if they keep making games with some Female Looking kid as the main character, I am not sure if I can handle that. Need more adult oriented FF in my opinion, but then again FF9 was very kid-ish, but was still fun.
I haven't boughten a FF game since FF10, except the 2 online ones, and don't plan on buying another one unless they make these storylines more adult oriented and with less "female looking males who look like 12 year old kids".
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
I think this statement tells us a lot. It's important to look at who Squaresoft was marketting their games to in the 90s. If you look at the majority of the characters throughout final fantasies 4-9, they were extremely childish. Characters like Rinoa, Zell and Selphie literally have the personalities of 10-12 year olds in 17 year old bodies. I'd argue that your Cecil and Locke were both very childish in their own cartoony ways as well. These games were made for players between the ages of 12 and 18, which was about my age when I played them. I recall a friend who was fascinated with how he related to Squall's throughts, which are really the thoughts of a naive, immature 15 year old who feels mature only relative to the 12 year olds who surround him. If he were to read Squall's thoughts today, he wouldn't possibly relate at all.
Thus is the challenge SE faces over a decade later. They've developed an extremely loyal fanbase from the 90s, most of whom are now in their mid 20s to early 30s who still want these games to cater to them, but there's also a whole new generation of 12-18 year olds to make games for. They're stuck in a position where they must either choose which audience to cater to or try to add elements, themes, and characters that can please both generations. I've also heard it's somewhat taboo in the Japanese culture for adults in their 20s and 30s to play video games. As I'm not very knowledgeable about their culture, I could be completely off, but if true, then SE would have much more incentive to develop with the next generation of teenagers as their target audience.
Agreed. SE simply doesn't know in what direction to take with FF, especially if they aim to encompass the western market(s) as well given that Japanese market alone can no longer cover the costs of AAA level development. This is in a way evident with all Japanese devs this generation in that they cannot penetrate the western market on their own. Even when they acquire western studios, they simply either outsource their projects to them or give them cash for their own stuff. There is no attempt to change their own ways so far and this is what's holding them back.
On a semi-related note, I'd like to echo something that Jim Sterling mentioned some time ago - SE likes to announce things and then tease us with, well, cryptic teasers for like 2 years. STOP THAT.