Cooking sounds like it is a place holder

pockets666

Dawb brought cooking Henrik also said there will be no more place holders.  Uncooked foods are the same as cooked foods.  Devs say they still need to implement sophistication.  Isnt that a placeholder??

 

I know the english is bad but give it a read.

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/67014-big-problem-food.html#post1211365

 

Today, 17:03

#1 (permalink)

johez Newbie   Join Date: Jul 2011   Rep Power: 0

Big problem with the food. I am very ungry with the raw food, becouse a pj without the skill of cook can cook better food than a cheff, and example: raw rye flour give 80% of stam nourishment ( this didnt need a tool and didnt need fire), and luscious fermented rye flour GIVE THE SAME, and u need a tool, and a fire and purified water and the skill. This is a big problem, i dont understand why raw food dont have penalties like poisoned or something like that. Other problem is why the tindremic grocer sell ingredients like flour, jamburra, cavolo etc.. NPCs not sell steel and iron, why this npc sell ingredients?. IT does the profession of cook NOT SERVE FOR NOTHING. PD: i hope than henrik read this and change the mechanical of this part of the game

 

 

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Quote:

It is a very stupid mechanic, and that's why the whole cook system is pretty much useless, which is unfortunate because I did enjoy cooking.

This.



Dear SV



I know you have been basing heavily on real life and I mostly do enjoy it this way, but please- Just imagine most creatures have some kind of toxins in them or their cells (cell walls) are hard to digest for humanoids without some cooking and/or adding chemicals from some spices. Of course those humanoids had the ability to digest everything raw a long time ago, but civilisation striped them off the enzymes needed.

Make cooking a viable play style AGAIN gotdamit!



With love- realnastre

__________________

deathshroud

i wouldnt say a palceholder, just that it needs some tweaks. Theres more to add in terms of the sophistican level affecting npc guilds and areas but that will coem later, the sofistication system is in just has no use yet.

Moreplex

Originally posted by deathshroud

i wouldnt say a palceholder, just that it needs some tweaks. Theres more to add in terms of the sophistican level affecting npc guilds and areas but that will coem later, the sofistication system is in just has no use yet.

Tweaks I understand.  Food Sophistication is not a tweak that is a whole other facet of the system.   Might as well not call the Territory System in place now not a place holder because all the other things are coming later.  

deathshroud

the sophistication system is another aspect to cooknig it is not a replacement for cooking.

Moreplex

Originally posted by deathshroud

the sophistication system is another aspect to cooknig it is not a replacement for cooking.

Of a system is not finished it is a place holder.  Cooking is obviously far from finished.  How is the breeding system going they said it would be in shortly after Dawn.  It has been a little over 3 months how is it?  

pockets666

Originally posted by Moreplex

Originally posted by deathshroud

the sophistication system is another aspect to cooknig it is not a replacement for cooking.

Of a system is not finished it is a place holder.  Cooking is obviously far from finished.  How is the breeding system going they said it would be in shortly after Dawn.  It has been a little over 3 months how is it?  

I am sure the breeding system is sitting right next to the second half of fishing that was supposed to be patched in 2 weeks later.  Give DS a break he is trying his hardest to defend something that shouldn't be defended.  We all know everything they add is a placeholder.  I can say the crap they are using for territory control is not a place holder because it has taxes the new system has taxes so they are just adding the rest of the system in.  See what I did thar.....

deathshroud

no a palce holder is something which hold the palce of something else, for example you could call the mount system a polace holder previously because it was to be superseeded with the current mount system meaning the old one was a palceholder,  what you jsut described is nothing like what a palce holder is, had this been you pickup food eat it and gain health but that was to be replaced with the current cooknig system then the aformentioned eating would of course be a placeholder.

However this is subjective to the communities own knowledge of features since the previous monut system wasnt exactly a palceholder the devs jsut suprised the community with changing it.

Moreplex

If a system is unfinished and thrown in a game until the rest of the system is implmented it is a place holder.  Just like the current territorial control.

SpottyGekko

If a system is not a placeholder, then it is the actual intended system.

In the case of food, that would then mean it's a broken system.

If you add a system to the live game, and then say that you will "tweak it later" to make it actually usefull, it qualifies as a placeholder in my opinion.

Moreplex

Looks like someone knows what they are doing with a food system..

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4453815#4453815

deathshroud

think your abit premature with that comment, they still havent worked out how it will work in archeage as of yet. Its also quite possible at this early stage they may drop eating and drinking. MO's food and hunger system is pretty much perfect except for the balancing, they adjust that and archeage will have competition in regards to cooknig and eating lol. im also looking forward to finally testing Archeage but i have a feeling its gonig to disapoint especially the combat at least, but the boats and housing mechanics are looking great.

Moreplex

Perfect??  Really??  Why is everyone complaining and saying cooking is worthless?

deathshroud

because its imbalanced in that raw food is almost as good as the best cooked food, they alter the bonuses and it is prefect. the sofistication system added with npc guilds will add antoher layer to that. the actual mechanics are prefectly fine i dont know of any real bugs at all with cooking, the only problem is the statistics of raw food.

SpottyGekko

Originally posted by deathshroud

because its imbalanced in that raw food is almost as good as the best cooked food, they alter the bonuses and it is prefect. the sofistication system added with npc guilds will add antoher layer to that. the actual mechanics are prefectly fine i dont know of any real bugs at all with cooking, the only problem is the statistics of raw food.

MO is like a spiderweb that's being being slowly built by a n00b spider. The web is complicated and looks very promising, but it's not catching any flies yet. The big question is: "Will the spider starve to death before the web is good enough to catch flies ?"

 

The main problem with MO (from the players' perspective) is the methodology that's being used in development.

The food system is a fine current example. For the food system to actually work as intended, the NPC guild system has to be added, along with Sophistication, because both of those systems will affect the "base values" of the various foods. SV will not "tweak" the base value calculations of food until the other 2 related systems are implemented, because that would mean reworking the tweaks when the related systems ARE eventually implemented, resulting in wasted development time (which they can ill afford).

HOWEVER, this means that the playerbase have to "live with" the current food system values for the next 2,4 or 6 months until NPC guilds and Sophistication are finally implemented.

Of course, NPC guilds and the Sophistication system are most likely not only related to the food system. They may well depend on OTHER systems not yet implemented. So, for example, when Sophistication is finally added to the game, it may only be added with "base values" in place until it's dependant systems are implemented. That would mean that final food values will still not be calculated "as intended", because Sophistication values are not yet "final". And so it goes...

You think the food system is "perfect" now, because nobody has found any bugs. The food bugs (if any) will appear once NPC guilds and Sophistication are added to the game, because that's when calculating food values will start becoming complicated. The more complexity there is in any system, the greater the chance of bugs, and finding loopholes and exploits.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by deathshroud

because its imbalanced in that raw food is almost as good as the best cooked food, they alter the bonuses and it is prefect. the sofistication system added with npc guilds will add antoher layer to that. the actual mechanics are prefectly fine i dont know of any real bugs at all with cooking, the only problem is the statistics of raw food.

MO is like a spiderweb that's being being slowly built by a n00b spider. The web is complicated and looks very promising, but it's not catching any flies yet. The big question is: "Will the spider starve to death before the web is good enough to catch flies ?"

 

The main problem with MO (from the players' perspective) is the methodology that's being used in development.

The food system is a fine current example. For the food system to actually work as intended, the NPC guild system has to be added, along with Sophistication, because both of those systems will affect the "base values" of the various foods. SV will not "tweak" the base value calculations of food until the other 2 related systems are implemented, because that would mean reworking the tweaks when the related systems ARE eventually implemented, resulting in wasted development time (which they can ill afford).

HOWEVER, this means that the playerbase have to "live with" the current food system values for the next 2,4 or 6 months until NPC guilds and Sophistication are finally implemented.

Of course, NPC guilds and the Sophistication system are most likely not only related to the food system. They may well depend on OTHER systems not yet implemented. So, for example, when Sophistication is finally added to the game, it may only be added with "base values" in place until it's dependant systems are implemented. That would mean that final food values will still not be calculated "as intended", because Sophistication values are not yet "final". And so it goes...

You think the food system is "perfect" now, because nobody has found any bugs. The food bugs (if any) will appear once NPC guilds and Sophistication are added to the game, because that's when calculating food values will start becoming complicated. The more complexity there is in any system, the greater the chance of bugs, and finding loopholes and exploits.

 Hey... someone "gets it"! 

deathshroud

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by deathshroud

because its imbalanced in that raw food is almost as good as the best cooked food, they alter the bonuses and it is prefect. the sofistication system added with npc guilds will add antoher layer to that. the actual mechanics are prefectly fine i dont know of any real bugs at all with cooking, the only problem is the statistics of raw food.

MO is like a spiderweb that's being being slowly built by a n00b spider. The web is complicated and looks very promising, but it's not catching any flies yet. The big question is: "Will the spider starve to death before the web is good enough to catch flies ?"

 

The main problem with MO (from the players' perspective) is the methodology that's being used in development.

The food system is a fine current example. For the food system to actually work as intended, the NPC guild system has to be added, along with Sophistication, because both of those systems will affect the "base values" of the various foods. SV will not "tweak" the base value calculations of food until the other 2 related systems are implemented, because that would mean reworking the tweaks when the related systems ARE eventually implemented, resulting in wasted development time (which they can ill afford).

HOWEVER, this means that the playerbase have to "live with" the current food system values for the next 2,4 or 6 months until NPC guilds and Sophistication are finally implemented.

Of course, NPC guilds and the Sophistication system are most likely not only related to the food system. They may well depend on OTHER systems not yet implemented. So, for example, when Sophistication is finally added to the game, it may only be added with "base values" in place until it's dependant systems are implemented. That would mean that final food values will still not be calculated "as intended", because Sophistication values are not yet "final". And so it goes...

You think the food system is "perfect" now, because nobody has found any bugs. The food bugs (if any) will appear once NPC guilds and Sophistication are added to the game, because that's when calculating food values will start becoming complicated. The more complexity there is in any system, the greater the chance of bugs, and finding loopholes and exploits.

 i think the imbalance with the current food stats is simply more of an oversight by the developers, they probably intended it this way but didnt realise how it would afect the cooking system, whilst sofistication adds another element to cooked food, tweaking the current stats of ingredients does not need the sofistication system added. But yea they are trying to make a very complex game with systems supporting systems meaning many dishes will suddenly become sort after when having a high level of sofistication grants you certain privelages. i dont think sofistication itself will calculate anything since the sofistication values of food is currently already ingame waiting for a purpose.

SpottyGekko

Originally posted by deathshroud

i think the imbalance with the current food stats is simply more of an oversight by the developers, they probably intended it this way but didnt realise how it would afect the cooking system, whilst sofistication adds another element to cooked food, tweaking the current stats of ingredients does not need the sofistication system added. But yea they are trying to make a very complex game with systems supporting systems meaning many dishes will suddenly become sort after when having a high level of sofistication grants you certain privelages. i dont think sofistication itself will calculate anything since the sofistication values of food is currently already ingame waiting for a purpose.

I certainly hope that the "imbalance with the current food stats" is not due to "an oversight by the developers", lol

That would imply that they designed, coded and implemented the whole system without testing it ONCE !? Because if the developer actually tested his code, he would have immediately seen that the outcome of cooking food is trivial, and he could have tweaked the base values (or cooking formulas) accordingly.

If it's only a matter of "tweaking the stats of ingredients", then it doesn't even require a patch to fix it. Just change the values in the database.

But it's probably not that simple, because I would imagine that the underlying formulas of the Cooking system use the raw values to calculate the new stats of the cooked item. So possibly there's a bug in the cooking formulas. Or perhaps there are other systems (player stats, equipment, time of day, etc.) that influence Cooking as well, which act as a multiplier to the Cooking formulas, who knows ?

 

It's very easy to criticize the work of others and call them idiots when you don't have all the details of the development process and environment. But one thing is certain, if there are frequent reasons to criticize the outcomes, then there definitely is a problem in the development process and/or environment.

pockets666

Spotty you need to slow down your arguement is to valid for DS to handle.  But what you are describing sounds like a placeholder.  A system waiting for all the toehr bells and whistles to come in and make the system vaild is a place holder.

pockets666

Longtime player in the OP thread link to the official forums. 

 

Hydras

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I also like how they say, "you have not explored the system yet..."



Let's face it, it's not done, like most of the other stuff. SV, can you just focus fire the stuff you have in game rather than add new content? (with the exception of territory control, because it's needed...but NOT HALF-ASSED!!!)

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lol sounds like a place holder.

SpottyGekko

I have always had great respect for the vision that SV has for MO. If they can survive long enough to implement the various systems that they plan to, it will be a great game. They may even end up with a reasonable spiritual successor to UO.

BUT, it's going to be a very rocky road. Almost every system will be seen as "half-assed" when it's first implemented, because of dependancies on other (not yet implemented) systems. You cannot "focus fire" on these seemingly "broken" systems, because the things that are needed to make them work (i.e. other systems) are not implemented yet.

Then, when all the supporting systems ARE finally implemented, there will still be tweaking and balancing required to fine-tune the original system.

From a player's perspective, this is hell, because the gameplay changes constantly. First archery is useless, then overpowered (with mounts), then meh, then perhaps OP again because crossbow bolts get implemented, and so on... People get fed up and burnt out, because no sooner have you got used to a certain playstyle, than it changes again because things that used to work in a certain way suddenly work differently.

Phelcher

It is hell, because Henric is not implamenting things in proper order.

Before high_end steel armor (or even weapons) were invented/found.. there should've been 20 kinds of wooden shields, 50 types of leather armor. Cooking, dual wielding,etc.. all in the game first.

Then build up to the more sophisticated stuff. Instead.. Henrik built a game based on high end armor & eauipment... with that being the ONLY part of the game. There is absolutely no dochotomy in playstyles for a skill based game.

Even the little boyz over on the MO forums still call classes out, or hybrid this.. lol

deathshroud

none of the high end materials are really even ingame yet. they have some of them on the database but they arent atainable ingame. Im not exactly sure what your talking about here, but steel isnt high end and easy to get, ironbone makes good armor and is easy to get. Infact the best armor is khurite splinted mail and not plate armor in most peoples opinions, the armor training skills really changed what materials were viable and what armors are best. granted bonetissue sucks and really only used by newp layers, but flakestone maalite ironbone incisium etc are all used in either armor or weapon crafting. wood is used in handles nad bows still, silk and other cloth materials often used for a weapons handle grip now. right now aq have players duel wielding and players using sword shield, spear shield, 2handed greatsword, briar axe, gs polarm, briar axe polearms, shortbows,. So there is variety in weapon loadouts especially when you conisder steel, tungsteel, cronite, oghmium, maalite heads.

 

Its also possible to make a cuprum weapon hit like a steel one perfect for players farming.

ShortyBible

If you continue to read the posts in the link provided by the OP. The developers and CM response really tells you a lot.  It show you their  focus, priorities and the direction the game is going. This game is basically an arena match . Mortal Online is no "sandbox"

jadedlevir

Originally posted by ShortyBible

If you continue to read the posts in the link provided by the OP. The developers and CM response really tells you a lot.  It show you their  focus, priorities and the direction the game is going. This game is basically an arena match . Mortal Online is no "sandbox"

This game is a sandbox. I don't even know how you can debate that. The devs are focusing on territory control because they're trying to appease their player base that want to give more purpose to guilds. They are also working on ai, gui, and trade tools at the same time. With the territory control system thats coming you can expand your guilds empire,conquer land and cities/towns, freely place control structurs, knock down others, set taxes, set laws, and outlaw other players. This isn't sandbox? Then wtf is.

Moreplex

Originally posted by jadedlevir

Originally posted by ShortyBible

If you continue to read the posts in the link provided by the OP. The developers and CM response really tells you a lot.  It show you their  focus, priorities and the direction the game is going. This game is basically an arena match . Mortal Online is no "sandbox"

This game is a sandbox. I don't even know how you can debate that. The devs are focusing on territory control because they're trying to appease their player base that want to give more purpose to guilds. They are also working on ai, gui, and trade tools at the same time. With the territory control system thats coming you can expand your guilds empire,conquer land and cities/towns, freely place control structurs, knock down others, set taxes, set laws, and outlaw other players. This isn't sandbox? Then wtf is.

Everything you mentioned is not in the game yet so yes right now it isn't a sandbox.  But I am sure you are like most MO supporters you play on potential..    When all that is in and working give us a line and tell us it has reached sandbox status.  

The rest of us are talking about the game as of now not 6 months from now.  That is a tall order for 3 coders to be working on all at the same time as well.  

Haven't they been working on AI/GUI?trade tools since release??  But this time they really mean it?

jadedlevir

Originally posted by Moreplex

Originally posted by jadedlevir

Originally posted by ShortyBible

If you continue to read the posts in the link provided by the OP. The developers and CM response really tells you a lot.  It show you their  focus, priorities and the direction the game is going. This game is basically an arena match . Mortal Online is no "sandbox"

This game is a sandbox. I don't even know how you can debate that. The devs are focusing on territory control because they're trying to appease their player base that want to give more purpose to guilds. They are also working on ai, gui, and trade tools at the same time. With the territory control system thats coming you can expand your guilds empire,conquer land and cities/towns, freely place control structurs, knock down others, set taxes, set laws, and outlaw other players. This isn't sandbox? Then wtf is.

Everything you mentioned is not in the game yet so yes right now it isn't a sandbox.  But I am sure you are like most MO supporters you play on potential..    When all that is in and working give us a line and tell us it has reached sandbox status.  

The rest of us are talking about the game as of now not 6 months from now.  That is a tall order for 3 coders to be working on all at the same time as well.  

Haven't they been working on AI/GUI?trade tools since release??  But this time they really mean it?

This game isn't a sandbox? Are you serious guy? If this game isn't a sandbox then theres only 2 sandboxes in existence.I don't think you know what a sandbox is.