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SWTOR Testing makes me miss Pre NGE SWG
Abdar
Member UncommonPosts: 400
Just as the title states, did some testing for TOR last night and this morning and if anything, it's made me miss what was pre NGE SWG.
Obviously I can't say what I didn't like in TOR, and we all know pre NGE was great. I just find it sad that after all this time, we're still not going to get what was amazing about the game at the time (specially in a Star Wars universe), and looks like we won't for a long while 
Comments
If you didn't already know that prior to testing then you must have been living under a rock for the past 3 years.
Well I try not to draw conclusions about games until I've actually played them. Unlike you.
Now you're making assumptions.
Bioware have never described their game as anything like SWG, they have in fact done the complete opposite. Other than being set in the same universe that is where the comparisons do and should end.
Thank you OP for that informative update. Obiviously, you took the right colored pill. Nothing irks me more than those who live in such a dream world that they cannot report to truth. It reminds me of the old expression, ' Don't cut off the nose to spite the face...".
Thanks for the news OP.
Never has this game set out to be anything like SWG so if you dont appreciate the game for what it is then dont bother playing it. Bioware intended for the game to be a hevily story focused mmo that takes what WoW has done right and add's new elements to the game...the game is set in the star wars universe but that is all!
Who EVER said this was comparable to the Pre NGE, It's totally apples and oranges.
Pretty subjective point of view.....
Well its been known for years that Bioware was not out to make nor recreate SWG. They have said from the beginning that they were pretty much looking at the WoW model. It's pretty sad that they wasted a beta invite, but it is what it is.
?? "and should end" ??
When I read the OP it seems to me his point was clear, he did not want TOR to be SWG he wanted TOR to be as orginal and creative and as deep as SWG, something different then the temepark style MMO's of today.
Perhaps you can explain why we need less originality and innovation and more themepark MMO's with a splash of dialogue? We have all read enough about this game to know Bioware did their best to take their single player model and combine it into a themepartk MMO. Neither of those experiences are new or grounbreaking. Its just like taking ice cream which is good and a banana which is good and making banana icecream which is not much different than strawberry icecream. Bioware hasnt presented one concept yet that hasnt already been done somewhere else. Im not knocking the game, it will sell well be fun to play but its nothing new, its an existing single player RPG experience that you can play with your friends, And when the story and dialogue are over your gonna be grinding faction doing dailies and running the same dungeons over and over for gear just like todays games
Im just amazed at the last part of your comment that seems to miss the orginal posters point, Its that SWG brought something new to the table TOR does not and if it does they are holding out on us. So by stating the only thing that should be the same is the universe and nothing else your telling the OP that TOR doesnt have to be orginal or innovative which were all attibutes associated with the original SWG.
If thats not what you were implying than what did you mean by "and should end"?
SWG Pre-NGE was a sandbox MMO.
SWTOR is a themepark MMO.
Those who yearn for a sandbox type of MMO and dislike themepark MMO's won't enjoy SWTOR.
So the people saying that this was common knowledge already unless people were living under a rock, and that theres little resemblance between SWG's design model and SWTOR's design model, only that the setting is Star Wars, were right.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I guess you completely missed the word "comparisons" and the meaning of the sentence. There is a huge difference between saying where comparisons should end and what you are trying to say i meant, which seems to be that TOR should not be anything like SWG. I neither said nor meant that.
It has been known since TOR was announced years ago that the game would be nothing like SWG and my original comment stated that he should have already known this prior to testing the game unless he'd been hiding under a rock for years.
@OP: So, you're telling us that you signed up for TOR's beta essentialy without knowing anything about the game and without bothering to collect some basic info. SWG is a sandbox MMO while SW TOR is a true themepark with all the norms (good and bad ones) applying to such games. There is litle to compare between SWG and TOR.
That's one wasted beta invite from Bioware. It could have gone to a person who actually knows something about the game he is going to test.
I'm in the SWTOR beta, I don't see how this would remind of pre-NGE, it reminds me alot more of the first KOTOR and some of Mass Effect more than SWG. Best thing to do with SWTOR is to not even link it to SWG, there's very little in common between the two games.
I think you already did draw a conclusion, by thinking it's like SWG.^^
This.
I'm tired of all these people wishing for things that simply aren't. Sandboxes (in their current evolution) are NOT appealing to the public at large. They are a small part on the pie graph that is MMOs. A LARGE (doubly, triply, quadruply so) part of the MMO experience/players out there are Themepark players.
Could you explain how they would go about delivering story and characters (Bioware's strongest suits) on a Sandbox? It would be NEARLY impossible.
So basically, the OP wants/expects the game to be not what it is. I'm sorry you didn't care for it. It seems to be JUST what I'm looking far as games/communities go but I will withhold judgement until I play. My POINT is that EA/Bioware are out to turn a profit and you do that by gearing the game to reach the audience most likely to spend the money.
Yeah. Not to be mean, but that's how I feel too. Though to be fair, there's no way BioWare could have known about this guy and what he expected of the game. He has just come to a realization that 99% of us here already knew, which is the reason for the "Thank you, Captain Obvious" posts.
I have no idea how you can not draw conclusions about something that was general information and don't even need some kind of beta testing. SWTOR a themepark story based MMORPG..SWG pre NGE open sandbox MMORPG.
Some people like living under a rock. I don't think Bioware was ever intending on cloning another game let alone a game that saw such a mediocre success rate due to the amount of changes $OE put it through. Will we see a return of CU or Pre-CU engine ever? Not unless $OE develops it, and there is little odds of that.
I'm tired of people projecting their personal preference as fact and basing their assumptions on the .02% of gamers that write in MMO forums.
Themeparks are a backslide. MMOers have been through MOGs, 2D MMORPGS, Themeparks and on into sandboxes. The mass market has only made it to Themepark so far. The largest part of the PC gaming community is made up of consolers who have recently graduated to PCs. The glut of these people haven't experienced sandboxes yet and only know MMOs as the trash that's been released and/or converted in the past couple of years. The level of sophistication of the mass market hasn't caught up to the difficulty level inherant in sandboxes.
You'll get here - as soon as you get tired of shallow crap and want to build something cool we'll welcome you with open arms.
Been hearing this same song and dance since 2007 and now we are entering 2012 and the only titles that we hear about is Archage which is not even a pure sandbox and is an Asian title. Words are good but reality says something else. Majority doesn't care for sandboxes, themepark is where the real money is.
Second verse, same as the first. All the way since 2007? Wow
Like I said, we'll welcome you with open arms
Cyberdeck has a valid point, but it was lost in the way he wrote his post. What he was trying to say is the genre is moving towards themepark/sandbox hybrids, but a successful, PURE sandbox is - at least for now - out of the question. TOR has some sandbox elements, though they aren't too strong. GW2 has more prominent sandbox features. This trend will likely continue with AAA releases.
Where will you welcome us? i see nothing on horizon. If the offer still stands after 10 years, i will get back to you.
Themeparks are a backslide. MMOers have been through MOGs, 2D MMORPGS, Themeparks and on into sandboxes. The mass market has only made it to Themepark so far. The largest part of the PC gaming community is made up of consolers who have recently graduated to PCs. The glut of these people haven't experienced sandboxes yet and only know MMOs as the trash that's been released and/or converted in the past couple of years. The level of sophistication of the mass market hasn't caught up to the difficulty level inherant in sandboxes.
You'll get here - as soon as you get tired of shallow crap and want to build something cool we'll welcome you with open arms.
Didn't MMO's start out as sandbox 15 years ago? UO was a sandbox game. Themepark MMOs seem to be in favor by game developers and a large portion of MMO players are fine with themepark MMOs. Sandbox games are a thing of the past, the recent ones has been busts, so I don't think sandbox is going to rise up from the dead anytime soon.
Another thread complaining about TOR. Is this really what the SWG community has been reduced to? Is the game so lifeless that you can't talk about anything else? Just asking.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm not sure if you are referring to what I wrote or not.. that's not what I was trying to say, but the part about "lost in the way he wrote his post" could apply to my post - I shouldn't post before my meds kick in lol.
What I was trying to say is that not a lot of the younger crowd have experienced wide open worlds without set rules or paths. Don't get me wrong, I have a PS3 and I love it. I've never seen a game that's as vast or has as much freedom as the Sandbox games though. Most of the RPG or action and adventure type games for the PS3 are on rails. Someone's going to have a list of examples that aren't though and I welcome it - I need to add to my to-play checklist
A lot of the newer Sandboxes are failing, true, but most of them are labors of love from independent developers. The big money has rushed into RMT, micro-payments and item shops. Two of my favorite IP themeparks have flipped to the model. DDO was dying and F2P did ressurect it, but IMHO it was a relatively low risk massive sales pitch to Warner Bros. LotRO was a greed move.
As a side note/ DDO always made more sense with the F2P model. D&D is the original F2P- we got a free pamphlet with the basic rules at the comic shop and then purchased the game in small chunks. There was a players handbook, DM's guide, modules, Monster manual, crystal dice and multiple colors of number wax, DM's shield and the list goes on.
However, D&D was also the epitome of a fully immersive sandbox. It took place in your head and you played your role as you headed into an instance/module with your friends. I'd campout like an Apple freak for the opportunity to play DDO with that kind of immersion in VR and go straight from being the 4th guy to get an iNeckSocket (2.0 - always 2.0 with Apple) to the line for the item shop. /side note.
Everquest has been around forever. Well, since 99 and still has 15 servers up in the age of consolidation. Furthermore, from Wikipedia
EverQuest has earned numerous awards, including 1999 GameSpot Game of the Year and a 2008 Technology & Engineering Emmy Award.
These are real life Emmy's in 2008 that Everquest 1 won along side the Wii controller, Nintendo DS, the Havok physics engine, and World of Warcraft.
Right now EQ2 has 1,982,085 playes online in the US - certainly not WoW numbers, but not bad for one of the "old school" games. LotRO players are estimating 200-1000 players per server online in the US at peak time. SWG was actually gaining subscriptions 2010 - 2011 and the only reason they're going away is because Lucas won't renew the rights so that SWTOR isn't affected by SOE deciding to do a SWG facelift on the coat tails of all SWTOR’s Star Wars hype
There is a huge bubble of players coming into their own right now - players that grew up with games with a smaller scope and have never really experienced user generated content like the thrill of riding past your house on the way to a dungeon with your group.
Newer 'MMOs' have real marketing money now because of the gold rush towards the less work / more profit F2P item shop model. That doesn't mean it's good for the gamer when you look past the F2P gloss. Sandboxers have always been a niche market and will continue to be - for a while. The reason I say that sandboxes aren't dead is because they'll also get their traditional cut of the massive influx of gamers. Meanwhile, the themepark/ F2P market is completely saturating itself. They're getting so blatantly greedy (Eve, TSW, LotRO's pay2win direction) that even the gamers coming off the consoles primed by DLC mini-transactions are calling them on it.
Because of all this, I predict that within a couple of years the MMO market will be so saturated with small games that the only way to attract enough gamers for development money will be to add features. There will be a feature race with the biggies winning and the ultimate feature list still and will always belong to the sandboxes. They are more expensive to develop, but EA could handle it and that is how the big boys will stand out.
By the time the pendulum swings back Apple or Google will have released glasses with actual retina displays and people will again be looking for more immersion in their MMOs. (To be fair, Microsoft will have released some crashy glasses that cause migraines, but I think most of us recognize the fact that it's Microsoft(ware) and not Microhard(ware) for a reason)
So, no. I don't think Virtual Worlds are dying at all. We've always been a niche market and will be untilgamers start to realize that player generated content < micro transactions in Six Flags.
*edited for spelling/grammer and to take out an unnecessary jab at the end*
This actually made me laugh like hell because you say this and then go on to project your personal preference (which OBVIOUSLY leans to sandboxes). You also insult console gamers by saying they are "graduating" to PC's. I've been a PC gamer FAR longer than I have a console gamer. I prefer PC for my stuff.
Mass-market IS where the money is. Whether you choose to accept that or not. I'm not saying that Themepark is BETTER or Sandbox is BETTER. They both have their uses. I enjoy Eve Online, Terraria, Minecraft and the like but I also enjoy themeparks that give me a good story as I can sit back and enjoy the ride.
I can ALSO see how you would say the flood of smaller games with only 1-2 big boys. In my OPINION, that's how it really is NOW. You have WoW at the top of the ladder. You have what I'll call mid-level games (Rift, Eve, EQ2, etc) and then you have what I PERSONALLY consider low-level games (LoL, Vindictus, WoT, etc). Not saying one is more fun than the other but developmentally that's how I see them. EQ used to be at the top of my list (up around Velious as I recall I got bored). I also thought that of UO back in the day. Personally, if someone would develop a modern day UO I would be positively in heaven. I know UO is still around but it's not the same.