Tell you what.....after playing almost 12 years of different MMO's and now all the BS regarding MicroTransactions and Real Money Stores/Auctions...I can honestly tell you that the best MMO ever made is also the MMO I hated the most...EQ....the ORIGINAL EQ.
Here is why....despite its grinding of passive MOBs, lack of story, ancient graphics and animations, and a hundred other things, EQ was still the best MMO because not of what it did have, but what it DID NOT have.
No stupid F2P stores or Real Money stores...you want the gear you EARN it.
No Grinding for TOKENS, you either get the drop or you didnt...PERIOD.
The game took SKILL, class knowledge, and the ability of players to get along and cooperate...it was not solo friendly.
NO PANDAS....
No GEARSCORE
No stupid Group or Raid finders...you organized them the old fashion way.
HARDCORE DEATH......my oh my....even Age of Conan's "Deathwish" server which is hardcore PvP cannot hold a candle to EQs dreaded CORPSE RUN!
ALL of your STUFF..on your corpse....you had better find it...MUHAHAHA, and dodge the mobs with only what is in your hands!
Yeah I hated it....it got boring fast...but the players made EQ...unfortunately as the quality of MMO players declined to its present day a$$hat, WoW kiddie, L33t level, a game such as EQ that mandates player cooperation cannot survive at the head of the pack.
Still....it was a game for REAL players....HARDCORE players and with no hand holding ....and required SKILL across the board including Social Skills for without a group your Dungeom or Raid would be FAIL.
Remember the Auction House? It was great in its simplicity and its player generated economy.
How I miss the game I hated so much.....which compared to the way MMO's are these days such as Age of Conan with its banging rocks in Bori grindfest and WoW with its grind for token fest, and their PvP and PvE armor flavors of the month...I say BAH!
Someone at Sony Verant release a hardcore game with great gameplay and graphics, that somehow screens the a$$hats and WoW kiddies out from playing.
Nowo that would be a game...RANT OVER....
RANT induced by Age of Conan....another ruined MMO by mindless game directors and a$$hat players as well as flawed game design.
Skill huh? Auto attack and 1 or two other buttons takes skill? I remember doing the following on multiple occasions. Step 1 - find blue mob, 2. Hit auto attack, 3. Leave computer to make a sandwich/go to the washroom or watch movie. 4. Step 4 look at screen, mob is dead. 5. Find another blue mob. Dungeon runs were a bit more interesting than in most (not all) modern MMO's but a bit too long IMO.
When I started I had fun, and when I return every once in awhile it is still fun. However after awhile (now that while is a few weeks) the monotony starts to set in and I know it's time to leave.
There was no skill involved - it was just long. Corpse runs just involved patience or a buddy.
Actually the only point I will agree with is the players made it good - and to that I will attribute to a smaller, more like-minded community. Thats it.
Venge
edit - however bards were the exception. Man I loved my bard, twisting songs, yes you had to be on your toes. To the peson that charmed a mob in Karnors phftt. Try charming 3 mobs, cycling your charm song through all three mobs and still keep a buff going - that was fun
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Go try the project 99 emulator. Most of the people there are pretty nice and it's as close as you'll ever get to old EQ. The biggest problem with it in my opinion is that everyone knows what they are doing so well it takes some of the fun out of it. A lot fewer trains and and a lot less chaos which makes it a bit more dull than it was back in the day.
There's also many new players joining, plenty of trains in Crushbones so far
**************************** Playing : Uncharted Waters Online ****************************
Tell you what.....after playing almost 12 years of different MMO's and now all the BS regarding MicroTransactions and Real Money Stores/Auctions...I can honestly tell you that the best MMO ever made is also the MMO I hated the most...EQ....the ORIGINAL EQ.
Here is why....despite its grinding of passive MOBs, lack of story, ancient graphics and animations, and a hundred other things, EQ was still the best MMO because not of what it did have, but what it DID NOT have.
No stupid F2P stores or Real Money stores...you want the gear you EARN it.
No Grinding for TOKENS, you either get the drop or you didnt...PERIOD.
The game took SKILL, class knowledge, and the ability of players to get along and cooperate...it was not solo friendly.
NO PANDAS....
No GEARSCORE
No stupid Group or Raid finders...you organized them the old fashion way.
HARDCORE DEATH......my oh my....even Age of Conan's "Deathwish" server which is hardcore PvP cannot hold a candle to EQs dreaded CORPSE RUN!
ALL of your STUFF..on your corpse....you had better find it...MUHAHAHA, and dodge the mobs with only what is in your hands!
Yeah I hated it....it got boring fast...but the players made EQ...unfortunately as the quality of MMO players declined to its present day a$$hat, WoW kiddie, L33t level, a game such as EQ that mandates player cooperation cannot survive at the head of the pack.
Still....it was a game for REAL players....HARDCORE players and with no hand holding ....and required SKILL across the board including Social Skills for without a group your Dungeom or Raid would be FAIL.
Remember the Auction House? It was great in its simplicity and its player generated economy.
How I miss the game I hated so much.....which compared to the way MMO's are these days such as Age of Conan with its banging rocks in Bori grindfest and WoW with its grind for token fest, and their PvP and PvE armor flavors of the month...I say BAH!
Someone at Sony Verant release a hardcore game with great gameplay and graphics, that somehow screens the a$$hats and WoW kiddies out from playing.
Nowo that would be a game...RANT OVER....
RANT induced by Age of Conan....another ruined MMO by mindless game directors and a$$hat players as well as flawed game design.
The thing about how EQ was when it began was that it was basic you got out of the game what you put into the game. If you where a casual player you had average gear and weapons. If you were a power player you got the better gear, and weapons. You earned everything you got. And the leveling was such that you knew if you were with a lvl 50 (max level at the time) you were playing with someone who knew there class and knew the content that you all where in.
The biggest failing with EQ is everyone wanted to be "end game" players so the complaing, B$%&^#$@ and other rants and raves caused the developers to be forced to make changes.
example--1: EQ always had the "duel" and "guild war" ability now remember when Jboots were a drop not a quest the arguments that came from one guild camping the mob vs another and rotating your guild memebers in so everyone could get the drop? well rather then have the players solve there own issues with the for mentioned commands SOE and Verant listend when people said they would cancel there account and made the drop a quest .
example-2: remember when the 2 top guilds would argue and fight over the "raid" mobs and the complaining started? rather then telling the top guilds use the "guild war" command to decided who would control the server SOE started working with the instance zones for there next expansion. (instance Zones was the beginning of the watering down of the game)
example-3: remember when POP came out and people got tired of flagging new guild memebers so they could raid time, well complaining started and the threats started so they allowed the change in the rule so for every 5 people 1 person could get in. SOE should have told the people so what quit if your going to we arent going to water down the game just so you can raid. then they should have started mergeing servers if sever population was going down to those levels.
EQ should have stayed true to its original intention, but I guess the bottom line really matters more then anything.
I played EQ from 7 days after the game was released (had the flu) until about years ago, Awesome game but its so watered down and so not what it use to be. Now you can lel from 1 to 90 in what a month if that?
Found this thread and felt compelled to reply because of all these posters claiming EQ didn't take skill. I guess it's true that calling your buddy for a corpse run doesn't take as much skill as say getting it yourself. I rarly if ever needed help getting my corpse, even when my corpse was deep in a dungeon. Knowing agro ranges and safe areas of dungeons took skill to use correctly, but if I didn't have the skill then yeah call on a friend. Training enemies without getting 30 people killed in the process took skill to manage. Kiting multiple mobs around in dangerous zones took skill and patience. Knowing a mob would eventually win an enounter took skill and understanding, then escaping that engaged mob took skill. Sure the combat was kinda bland and was simpy an autotattack with maybe 1 or 2 abilites used, but there were so many tactics you needed to understand and use correctly to get a successful kill, knowing fear paths, kiting or just managing agro. These things are lost in today's MMO's for the most part it's jump in and spam abilites till mob is dead, if your going to die either let yourself die because there is no penelty or just click your ultra speed buff and escape, the mob is leashed anyway and will give up in 2 seconds.
I hope one day there is game like EQ, an MMO that is for the millions of loyal subscribing niche players that don't want this mindless crap anymore, Vanguard was probably the closest thing to a playable MMO for me and I'm pretty sure SOE can be blamed for ruining it. That's my 2cents, now go make the damn game.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar edit - however bards were the exception. Man I loved my bard, twisting songs, yes you had to be on your toes. To the peson that charmed a mob in Karnors phftt. Try charming 3 mobs, cycling your charm song through all three mobs and still keep a buff going - that was fun
I miss playing my EQ bard. I have not found any other MMO that even comes close to the EQ Bard playstyle. (sigh...)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
edit - however bards were the exception. Man I loved my bard, twisting songs, yes you had to be on your toes. To the peson that charmed a mob in Karnors phftt. Try charming 3 mobs, cycling your charm song through all three mobs and still keep a buff going - that was fun
I miss playing my EQ bard. I have not found any other MMO that even comes close to the EQ Bard playstyle. (sigh...)
Same. Twisting to be highly effective, awesome in groups, a beast solo... but a VERY high skill cap... Loved it... Miss it...
I loved the feel of teh necromancer and shadow knight as well. Shadow knight seemed more evil and dark than Death Knights anyday.
Knowledgee by itself is just information but it takes skill to know when to use the knowledge you gathered.
But knowing when to use a skill is also just knowledge. The word 'knowing' in the sentence kind gives it away.
Now I realize the meaning of the word "skill" can be debated, but I'm sorry, I can't call an activity that requires nothing more physical than clicking buttons as a skill.
Tell you what.....after playing almost 12 years of different MMO's and now all the BS regarding MicroTransactions and Real Money Stores/Auctions...I can honestly tell you that the best MMO ever made is also the MMO I hated the most...EQ....the ORIGINAL EQ.
Here is why....despite its grinding of passive MOBs, lack of story, ancient graphics and animations, and a hundred other things, EQ was still the best MMO because not of what it did have, but what it DID NOT have.
No stupid F2P stores or Real Money stores...you want the gear you EARN it.
No Grinding for TOKENS, you either get the drop or you didnt...PERIOD.
The game took SKILL, class knowledge, and the ability of players to get along and cooperate...it was not solo friendly.
NO PANDAS....
No GEARSCORE
No stupid Group or Raid finders...you organized them the old fashion way.
HARDCORE DEATH......my oh my....even Age of Conan's "Deathwish" server which is hardcore PvP cannot hold a candle to EQs dreaded CORPSE RUN!
ALL of your STUFF..on your corpse....you had better find it...MUHAHAHA, and dodge the mobs with only what is in your hands!
Yeah I hated it....it got boring fast...but the players made EQ...unfortunately as the quality of MMO players declined to its present day a$$hat, WoW kiddie, L33t level, a game such as EQ that mandates player cooperation cannot survive at the head of the pack.
Still....it was a game for REAL players....HARDCORE players and with no hand holding ....and required SKILL across the board including Social Skills for without a group your Dungeom or Raid would be FAIL.
Remember the Auction House? It was great in its simplicity and its player generated economy.
How I miss the game I hated so much.....which compared to the way MMO's are these days such as Age of Conan with its banging rocks in Bori grindfest and WoW with its grind for token fest, and their PvP and PvE armor flavors of the month...I say BAH!
Someone at Sony Verant release a hardcore game with great gameplay and graphics, that somehow screens the a$$hats and WoW kiddies out from playing.
Nowo that would be a game...RANT OVER....
RANT induced by Age of Conan....another ruined MMO by mindless game directors and a$$hat players as well as flawed game design.
what auction house? I had to sneak through sewers to avoid being KOS by guards in Freeport. Life sucked as a Dark Elf.
Tell you what.....after playing almost 12 years of different MMO's and now all the BS regarding MicroTransactions and Real Money Stores/Auctions...I can honestly tell you that the best MMO ever made is also the MMO I hated the most...EQ....the ORIGINAL EQ.
Here is why....despite its grinding of passive MOBs, lack of story, ancient graphics and animations, and a hundred other things, EQ was still the best MMO because not of what it did have, but what it DID NOT have.
No stupid F2P stores or Real Money stores...you want the gear you EARN it.
Unless you bought plat off of ige.com and bought your gear upgrades in the bazaar
No Grinding for TOKENS, you either get the drop or you didnt...PERIOD.
In other MMOs, you either get drops or you don't, which is the same as it was in EQ. The only difference is everyone gets a token which they can later use to purchase comparable gear once they've saved enough of them. I find it hard to believe that's a bad thing.
The game took SKILL, class knowledge, and the ability of players to get along and cooperate...it was not solo friedly
It took very little skill unless you were trying to solo. I could practically chat with my guild, chat with my group, and have a privte conversation with a buddy via /tell all while holding aggro on the one mob that's pulled at a time. There were no quests that you were forced to finish to progress. You just sat in one spot for hours while the puller brings mobs to you one at a time. If he aggros two, just get the CCer to put one to sleep. Combat was extremely slow paced, and you could only have a certain number of abilities on your hotbar, so you had little use for memorizing 20+ keybinds. Raids were not all that complex, and you had little reason to study a fight unless you were the raid leader because they were so easily explained.
NO PANDAS....
Giant Frogs > Pandas?
No GEARSCORE
WoW wouldn't have GearScore if it wasn't for gear gating which was invented in games like EverQuest. Don't have your epic weapon? You're missing 100 AAs? Sorry, you're not geared enough for this raid...
No stupid Group or Raid finders...you organized them the old fashioned way
I bet you still enjoy riding to town on horseback...
HARDCORE DEATH......my oh my....even Age of Conan's "Deathwish" server which is hardcore PvP cannot hold a candle to EQs dreaded CORPSE RUN
Here's a solution: Never go anywhere without a cleric. On the rare occasion that you dare venture off somewhere where a cleric can't rez you and you can't get to your corpse, just ask a necro in your guild to summon your remains at the zone line. That's hardly evil stuff there...
ALL of your STUFF..on your corpse....you had better find it...MUHAHAHA, and dodge the mobs with only what is in your hands!
Unless you're buddies with a necromancer or a cleric with a 98% rez...
Yeah I hated it....it got boring fast...but the players made EQ...unfortunately as the quality of MMO players declined to its present day a$$hat, WoW kiddie, L33t level, a game such as EQ that mandates player cooperation cannot survive at the head of the pack.
There was a lot I miss about EverQuest, but video games are just that -- games. EverQuest was one hell of a soul sucking, life stealing monster that I don't think anyone could reasonably progress through without devoting more real life time than is reasonably healthy. I'll gladly trade community building, making friends, and cooperation (all of which can and should be done primarily in the real world) for a game that I can sit down and play for an hour and feel like I accomplished something. At least dungeon finders now allow me to do all that with a full group of other real life players regardless of whether or not we do much talking. The fact that WoW became so popular is a testament to the fact that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Your EQ community still exists among WoW, LotRO, SW:TOR and other games; however, it's mixed in with a much larger group of people because quite frankly, MMORPGs appeal to a much larger audience.
Still....it was a game for REAL players....HARDCORE players and with no hand holding ....and required SKILL across the board including Social Skills for without a group your Dungeom or Raid would be FAIL.
It takes zero social skills to shout, "65 paladin LFG" over and over again until you're banned from spamming a public chat channel. It required little skill as mentioned above, unless you count actively trying to play the game against the way it was designed as showcasing your skill. I'll give you one thing, EverQuest certainly was for the hardcore. Of course, that's not really a good thing either.
Remember the Auction House? It was great in its simplicity and its player generated economy
The bazaar was amazing until World of Warcraft came along and popularized the Auction House which blew away the bazaar. No longer did players have to leave their computers on all night long in order to sell an item or no longer did they have to buy a second account just to keep up a bazaar mule. Of course, EQ's bazaar system is working wonders in FFXIV right now.
How I miss the game I hated so much.....which compared to the way MMO's are these days such as Age of Conan with its banging rocks in Bori grindfest and WoW with its grind for token fest, and their PvP and PvE armor flavors of the month...I say BAH!
Grind for gear, grind for tokens? I dont' get the difference. World of Warcraft was the spirtual successor to EQ, and its endgame is almost exactly like that of Everquest only designed to appeal to a larger number of players due to far less of a time commitment. That doesn't mean raiding in WoW is easy. If you think it's easy, by all means link your achievements for all your heroic raid boss kills.
Someone at Sony Verant release a hardcore game with great gameplay and graphics, that somehow screens the a$$hats and WoW kiddies out from playing
They would and then you'd be the first person wondering why you can't find a group. The answer would be because no one is playing. The a$$hats and WoW kiddies pay the bills for these game developers which allow them to keep the servers up and to add new content. Deal with them and play in a thriving, ever changing game world or go hide in a corner with the other self righteous whiners.
Nowo that would be a game...RANT OVER....
If you go subscribe to Vanguard right now, you might just be the 161st person logged into the game world once your download finishes. Go check that out.
RANT induced by Age of Conan....another ruined MMO by mindless game directors and a$$hat players as well as flawed game design.
I still play ole EQ after going to soo many MMOs. I really do think it will be the last MMO I play. Its slowly heading to the grave and has a couple more years left in it. They have had to adapt it to the current market of MMO players and is much much more casual now than it ever has been. The group game, is more like the solo game. The raids are still quite epic (54 players) and even with dated graphics it still has a big draw for me.
Your point I think is a bit off though. EQ is very much a RMT, Microtransaction game on top of a subscription model. The difference between EQ is its not in your face, because your paying a subscription. With the huge wave of F2P MMOs now, I think you remember EQ before these things were introduced. Sadly, most if not all MMOs have adopted RMT and microtransactions. It takes me back to my original statement, that EQ 1 will be the last MMO I play. I know they will never convert the original to a F2P model (it would work because of its age) and I can't stand all these things.
On the up side, I have started playing Console games again after 15 years. Xbox 360 isn't bad and has a great social interface. I believe MMOs are all starting to fizzle out. WoW subscriptions are probably declining, and all these F2P crap MMOs put up a bad name for the MMORPG community. The last great hope is SWTOR, but I don't see it being as big as a success as everything thinks. Most of its concepts are essentially polished old gameplay. I'm tired of that crap, and the MMOs of old are dead or dying. RIP...
have fun on your xbox. Its just a dumbed down PC with a joystick.
That argument is as worthless as saying that "have fun with you wrist watch, it is just a dumbed down PC with a wristband".
... doing repetitive tasks for weeks on end without scooping your own eyeballs out with a spoon is a skill.
Having the patience to do the same simple actions again and again on the chance you will finally get an incremental improvement so you can do a new set of same simple actions is also a skill.
.... I sound like i'm describing the qualifications to get a job in a meat packing plant or something.
It is also very important for doing scientific research: you will face many dead-ends and being able to endure the fact that you've just wasted a lot of time reaching that dead-end without any major result, is an important skill.
Originally posted by InFaVilla Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
time != skill
... doing repetitive tasks for weeks on end without scooping your own eyeballs out with a spoon is a skill. Having the patience to do the same simple actions again and again on the chance you will finally get an incremental improvement so you can do a new set of same simple actions is also a skill. .... I sound like i'm describing the qualifications to get a job in a meat packing plant or something. It is also very important for doing scientific research: you will face many dead-ends and being able to endure the fact that you've just wasted a lot of time reaching that dead-end without any major result, is an important skill.
There are skills involved in playing mmorpg, just not in the way that most people use the term. Largely it's in reading comprehension, planning, the ability to work with others in group situations and in some group situations leadership or management skills.
I think the minimum skill level required is pretty low though. Anyone with an average intelligence should have no trouble successfully playing EQ by the age of 10. Really, anyone capable of reading a fantasy novel or a long graphic novel should be able to do it if they really want to.
The things you need most though are patience and determination. If you lack those two character traits, you're really going to have trouble with mmorpg.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The things you need most though are patience and determination. If you lack those two character traits, you're really going to have trouble with mmorpg.
Patience, determination, knowing your enemy's abilities, knowing your character's limits, being aware of your surroundings, strategizing which of your abilities to use and when, planning what equipment/abilities to focus on obtaining/training, maximizing your efficiency, planning an escape in case things go wrong, being dextrous enough to hit the right button quickly and accurately when the need arises...
Most of these are no longer a factor in today's MMOs, but they were things to really think about back in good old EQ.
Comments
Skill huh? Auto attack and 1 or two other buttons takes skill? I remember doing the following on multiple occasions. Step 1 - find blue mob, 2. Hit auto attack, 3. Leave computer to make a sandwich/go to the washroom or watch movie. 4. Step 4 look at screen, mob is dead. 5. Find another blue mob. Dungeon runs were a bit more interesting than in most (not all) modern MMO's but a bit too long IMO.
When I started I had fun, and when I return every once in awhile it is still fun. However after awhile (now that while is a few weeks) the monotony starts to set in and I know it's time to leave.
There was no skill involved - it was just long. Corpse runs just involved patience or a buddy.
Actually the only point I will agree with is the players made it good - and to that I will attribute to a smaller, more like-minded community. Thats it.
Venge
edit - however bards were the exception. Man I loved my bard, twisting songs, yes you had to be on your toes. To the peson that charmed a mob in Karnors phftt. Try charming 3 mobs, cycling your charm song through all three mobs and still keep a buff going - that was fun
There's also many new players joining, plenty of trains in Crushbones so far
****************************
Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
****************************
The thing about how EQ was when it began was that it was basic you got out of the game what you put into the game. If you where a casual player you had average gear and weapons. If you were a power player you got the better gear, and weapons. You earned everything you got. And the leveling was such that you knew if you were with a lvl 50 (max level at the time) you were playing with someone who knew there class and knew the content that you all where in.
The biggest failing with EQ is everyone wanted to be "end game" players so the complaing, B$%&^#$@ and other rants and raves caused the developers to be forced to make changes.
example--1: EQ always had the "duel" and "guild war" ability now remember when Jboots were a drop not a quest the arguments that came from one guild camping the mob vs another and rotating your guild memebers in so everyone could get the drop? well rather then have the players solve there own issues with the for mentioned commands SOE and Verant listend when people said they would cancel there account and made the drop a quest .
example-2: remember when the 2 top guilds would argue and fight over the "raid" mobs and the complaining started? rather then telling the top guilds use the "guild war" command to decided who would control the server SOE started working with the instance zones for there next expansion. (instance Zones was the beginning of the watering down of the game)
example-3: remember when POP came out and people got tired of flagging new guild memebers so they could raid time, well complaining started and the threats started so they allowed the change in the rule so for every 5 people 1 person could get in. SOE should have told the people so what quit if your going to we arent going to water down the game just so you can raid. then they should have started mergeing servers if sever population was going down to those levels.
EQ should have stayed true to its original intention, but I guess the bottom line really matters more then anything.
I played EQ from 7 days after the game was released (had the flu) until about years ago, Awesome game but its so watered down and so not what it use to be. Now you can lel from 1 to 90 in what a month if that?
Found this thread and felt compelled to reply because of all these posters claiming EQ didn't take skill. I guess it's true that calling your buddy for a corpse run doesn't take as much skill as say getting it yourself. I rarly if ever needed help getting my corpse, even when my corpse was deep in a dungeon. Knowing agro ranges and safe areas of dungeons took skill to use correctly, but if I didn't have the skill then yeah call on a friend. Training enemies without getting 30 people killed in the process took skill to manage. Kiting multiple mobs around in dangerous zones took skill and patience. Knowing a mob would eventually win an enounter took skill and understanding, then escaping that engaged mob took skill. Sure the combat was kinda bland and was simpy an autotattack with maybe 1 or 2 abilites used, but there were so many tactics you needed to understand and use correctly to get a successful kill, knowing fear paths, kiting or just managing agro. These things are lost in today's MMO's for the most part it's jump in and spam abilites till mob is dead, if your going to die either let yourself die because there is no penelty or just click your ultra speed buff and escape, the mob is leashed anyway and will give up in 2 seconds.
I hope one day there is game like EQ, an MMO that is for the millions of loyal subscribing niche players that don't want this mindless crap anymore, Vanguard was probably the closest thing to a playable MMO for me and I'm pretty sure SOE can be blamed for ruining it. That's my 2cents, now go make the damn game.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Same. Twisting to be highly effective, awesome in groups, a beast solo... but a VERY high skill cap... Loved it... Miss it...
I loved the feel of teh necromancer and shadow knight as well. Shadow knight seemed more evil and dark than Death Knights anyday.
But knowing when to use a skill is also just knowledge. The word 'knowing' in the sentence kind gives it away.
Now I realize the meaning of the word "skill" can be debated, but I'm sorry, I can't call an activity that requires nothing more physical than clicking buttons as a skill.
what auction house? I had to sneak through sewers to avoid being KOS by guards in Freeport. Life sucked as a Dark Elf.
That argument is as worthless as saying that "have fun with you wrist watch, it is just a dumbed down PC with a wristband".
Finding methods to be able to endure tedium is a skill and actually a very good one as it often requires mental strength.
It is also very important for doing scientific research: you will face many dead-ends and being able to endure the fact that you've just wasted a lot of time reaching that dead-end without any major result, is an important skill.
Having the patience to do the same simple actions again and again on the chance you will finally get an incremental improvement so you can do a new set of same simple actions is also a skill.
.... I sound like i'm describing the qualifications to get a job in a meat packing plant or something.
It is also very important for doing scientific research: you will face many dead-ends and being able to endure the fact that you've just wasted a lot of time reaching that dead-end without any major result, is an important skill.
There are skills involved in playing mmorpg, just not in the way that most people use the term. Largely it's in reading comprehension, planning, the ability to work with others in group situations and in some group situations leadership or management skills.
I think the minimum skill level required is pretty low though. Anyone with an average intelligence should have no trouble successfully playing EQ by the age of 10. Really, anyone capable of reading a fantasy novel or a long graphic novel should be able to do it if they really want to.
The things you need most though are patience and determination. If you lack those two character traits, you're really going to have trouble with mmorpg.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Everquest was the best MMORPG ever!!
Now there is none... 
Patience, determination, knowing your enemy's abilities, knowing your character's limits, being aware of your surroundings, strategizing which of your abilities to use and when, planning what equipment/abilities to focus on obtaining/training, maximizing your efficiency, planning an escape in case things go wrong, being dextrous enough to hit the right button quickly and accurately when the need arises...
Most of these are no longer a factor in today's MMOs, but they were things to really think about back in good old EQ.