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I lose interest once A game turns to Raiding.

Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

 

Anyone else get like this?

They really enjoy a game, questing is great, pvp, dungeons, crafting. This entire time your doing what you want to do and how you want to do it.

You group when you want, you play solo or in a small group and advance your character when you want to.

That is until you hit this wall and are required to raid if you want to continue to progress.

Then you have this kid telling you that you need to log in M-Fri 6-11...

I mean wtf happened? 

Why do our games do shit like that? I get that these are massively multiplayer games but why the hell am i required to log in at a set time like this is a job?

For me once the game gets like this I lose almost all interest.

A good example of this was RIFT. I loved that game, the questing, classes, Dungeons and even the crafting. Then i get to this point where i need to raid or basically gtfo of the game. So i join a guild that raids three days a week and after about a month I find myself hiding on steam playing GRID, Borderlands and Streetfighter lol!!!!!

Does this happen to anyone else? Is this common? if so why the hell do developers but mechanics in the game that force "Schedules" on people?

 

I swear guys if it wasn't for A-nets promise of no raiding endgame I think Rift would have been my last try at the genre. I want to play how i want to play and not feel like i hit this wall where im required to turn a game into a job just to progress my character. 

 

Editted because one line typed in a rant was being focused on and used to derail the thread.

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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,208

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    image

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.

    If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.

    But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?

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  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,208

    which way to go with this...it's pointless to debate if I am or am not a virgin so I wont even try. I'll metion i graduated over a year ago and still raid just fine.

     

    now that 5%...does quests just like you. does dungeons just like you but when endgame hits instead of quitting he starts raiding and keeps staying subscribed due to raiding.

     

    so it may be only 5% but if their subscription is continuous and yours isnt, he's a billion times more valuable to the company than you are.

     

    get it? he plays through the game, doesnt pick it up for a month and then drops it. that's why that 5% is the VIP 5%.

    image

  • ukforzeukforze Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by Z3R01

     

    Anyone else get like this?

    They really enjoy a game, questing is great, pvp, dungeons, crafting. This entire time your doing what you want to do and how you want to do it.

    You group when you want, you play solo or in a small group and advance your character when you want to.

    That is until you hit this wall and are required to raid if you want to continue to progress.

    Then you have this peice of crap virgin, no-life college kid telling you that you need to log in M-Fri 6-11...

    I mean wtf happened? 

    Why do our games do shit like that? I get that these are massively multiplayer games but why the hell am i required to log in at a set time like this is a job?

    For me once the game gets like this I lose almost all interest.

    A good example of this was RIFT. I loved that game, the questing, classes, Dungeons and even the crafting. Then i get to this point where i need to raid or basically gtfo of the game. So i join a guild that raids three days a week and after about a month I find myself hiding on steam playing GRID, Borderlands and Streetfighter lol!!!!!

    Does this happen to anyone else? Is this common? if so why the hell do developers but mechanics in the game that force "Schedules" on people?

     

    I swear guys if it wasn't for A-nets promise of no raiding endgame I think Rift would have been my last try at the genre. I want to play how i want to play and not feel like i hit this wall where im required to turn a game into a job just to progress my character. 

    I also dont liek the raiding aspect, along with a lot of other aspects of the modern mmo's,

    but neither you or i can change it, this is the age of mass cloning of poor mmos

    The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

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  • RivalenRivalen Member Posts: 503

    2 ridiculous comments in this thread.

    A. For all that you could know the raid leader you're talking about could have your exact same life, MMO gamers come in all shapes and sizes.

    B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.

    To the OP, grow a pair already, it's your own fault for being a guild you don't like, join a guild where you don't have to schedule your life around it.

    Don't raid, or raid in a guild that you actually like, or whatever, but don't blame others for your decisions.

  • sloebersloeber Member UncommonPosts: 504

    i think that what the OP is trying to say is that every time a game comes out and you hit the cap.....there are no more things to do but raiding.

     

    I my case.....i feel the OP completely.....i loved rift also ALOT, gfx was good...so is the gameplay, skills......alround a good game (except for the crafting that realy sucks imho).

    But yeah.....once i hit 50 there is absolutely nothing else to do but raiding or do rifts (i like doing rift still...for now)

    And the raiding realy feels like a job in modern mmo's.......it actually makes me miss the grinding from the older games tbh.

    The fact that devs make raiding the ONLY way to get good items is forcing people into raiding.

    Dont get me wrong, i love a good raid every now and then but i want more options like.....being able to craft uber items that are equal to those that drop from raids......that way i get a choice.....do i get an uber sword from killing the biggest toughest dragon around or by grinding for mats for weeks??

    This way i get the choice and the game is played the way i like it while the raiders can still do there "dungeon grind" but the important thing for me here is.......new mmo's should give the players more options.

    yeah i hear some you already saying.....go play a sandbox then.......trust me, if you can give a title of a sandbox that is even half as good as UO was i am happy to try it out.

    I realy had it with themeparks these days tbh.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Rivalen

    2 ridiculous comments in this thread.

    A. For all that you could know the raid leader you're talking about could have your exact same life, MMO gamers come in all shapes and sizes.

    B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.

    To the OP, grow a pair already, it's your own fault for being a guild you don't like, join a guild where you don't have to schedule your life around it.

    Don't raid, or raid in a guild that you actually like, or whatever, but don't blame others for your decisions.

    There is no such thing as a spur of the moment raid mechanic lol.

    My complaint is more about the game mechanics than the people.

    Look passed the college kid insult that i've editted out and focus on the entire post.

    Raiding requires you to schedule your life around a game, not the people. 

    Go ahead find a casual "raid guild" and see if you still arent required to log in at a certain time to raid lol.

    What a silly troll post...

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  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Originally posted by Rivalen

    B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.

     of course...until he stops paying because he's out of quests and doesnt raid. then one's a paying customer and he other is nothing.

     

    mmo's differentiate from other games because of the monthly fee. why are we always thinking in terms of static "now" when its this 'monthly" process that's most relevant? at the end of the fiscal year, there's 12 months. and the one who payed 12 months will be a more valuable custmer than the one who payed one month.

     

    that was my point. recurring subscriptions hold the highest value in mmo's, not the box sales.

    I will chime in this one last time to say i disagree that raiders play longer than casuals.

    From my experience raiders leave first because they usually exhaust all the avialable content. 

    This is why casuals are catered to more. problem is im not a casual I just like to play how i want and running someone elses schedule because its really the only way to progress for me sucks.

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  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367

    This is exactly the reason why I didn't like WoW's new, more casual direction. I never wanted to schedulize my real life for a game so I never joined any raiding guild, although I enjoyed raids when I got a chance to participate. I had lots of fun with non-max level content, until they made it so easy there was no point to play anymore.

    I believe this is actually the most important reason why so called non-raiders don't want to join endgame; not because it's too hard or too time consuming, but because of this 'if you jump on the wagon you better stay aboard or quit for good' mentality. For me, the best endgame content has always been small group dungeons and long quest lines.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.

    If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.

    But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?

     

    The red text in this post is factually wrong.

    50% of WoW's players (that's what 6-7 Million players?) raided in WotLK expansion. It was actually one of the great successes of WotLK.

    Considering WoW is still what 70-80% of the MMO playerbase I'd say that 5% is a bit too 'low'.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Member UncommonPosts: 1,969

    I have never been in a guild that requires raiding. When I am seeking a guild I always look for a casual guild that has no set raid schedule.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Rivalen

    Originally posted by Z3R01


    Originally posted by Rivalen

    2 ridiculous comments in this thread.

    A. For all that you could know the raid leader you're talking about could have your exact same life, MMO gamers come in all shapes and sizes.

    B. The 5% VIP is hilarious, a payment costumer is a payment costumer.

    To the OP, grow a pair already, it's your own fault for being a guild you don't like, join a guild where you don't have to schedule your life around it.

    Don't raid, or raid in a guild that you actually like, or whatever, but don't blame others for your decisions.

    There is no such thing as a spur of the moment raid mechanic lol.

    My complaint is more about the game mechanics than the people.

    Look passed the college kid insult that i've editted out and focus on the entire post.

    Raiding requires you to schedule your life around a game, not the people. 

    Go ahead find a casual "raid guild" and see if you still arent required to log in at a certain time to raid lol.

    What a silly troll post...

     You're really bad at this forum thing, everyone that disagrees with you gets instantly labeled.

    There is such a thing as guild where you're not required to raid, if you end up being able to you can, but you don't have to, i know because i've been in extreme hardcore guilds, ran guilds, and been in relaxed guilds.

    They all raided and they were all extremely different from each other.

    I guess your complain is that in Rift there's only raiding to do in endgame?

    If that's so, that, yet again, is not the guilds fault, it's the game, and you could have read about the game and decided that endgame was not for you, it's not like Rift developers hided the fact that endgame would be raiding.

    I didn't touch rift because i knew for a fact it was a wow clone and what the end game would be, if a game is designed to catter to raiders and you can't/don't like raiding...why play it?

    Im complaining about the game dude...

    You guys focused on the no-life college kid remark instead of what the post was about.

    Basically, Bait and switch. A game going from being this wonderful experience where i progress the way i like and how i want to being a job that requires schedules.

    Its not about the people running the schedules, because if the mechanic didnt require them to then they wouldnt be doing it.

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  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    I really don't see what kind of discussion you were hoping to actually get out of this biased thread. All it is, is just you saying "I hate raiding" and you're just hoping for people to aggree to you. Thus validating your opinion.

     

    Personally I don't have this animosity to raiding but I don't like how insignificant my actions feel, when more and more people are included to the mix.

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  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Z3R01


    Originally posted by Robokapp

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.

    If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.

    But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?

     

    The red text in this post is factually wrong.

    50% of WoW's players (that's what 6-7 Million players?) raided in WotLK expansion. It was actually one of the great successes of WotLK.

    Considering WoW is still what 70-80% of the MMO playerbase I'd say that 5% is a bit too 'low'.

    Wotlk didnt have a raid mechanic. take away the ten mans, take away the easy versions of those instances. What was the percentage of players that ran hardmode 25 mans only? should be around 5%.

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  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329

    Well biggest failure is level system. Most of game contetnt is made obsolete fast becasue you outlevel it and you can 'finish' game once you hit max level.

    With skill based systems content is used much better. If skill based game is made right there is reason to go back to first areas you started.

     

    Well anyway level system or skill system , games have to start providing real activities additionaly to raiding. Nowadays open world, crafting ,exploring are minimalistic and not importatnt at all , housing frequently non existant or instanced.

    There is no politics, hobbies , mini-games ,etc

     

    So devs need to put incredible time-sinks so they do daily/weekly locks, quest and alot of grinding for medallions ,tokens , etc

    To do that you must do repetetive tasks every day whioch seem like a job. Because there is raiding and instancing and nothing else.

    Don't get me wrong , combat overall is very very important in mmorpg obviously , but if there is nothing else then it gets boring fast.

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Master10K

    I really don't see what kind of discussion you were hoping to actually get out of this biased thread. All it is, is just you saying "I hate raiding" and you're just hoping for people to aggree to you. Thus validating your opinion.

     

    Personally I don't have this animosity to raiding but I don't like how insignificant my actions feel, when more and more people are included to the mix.

    This is nothing but an early morning Rant on the classic Bait and switch topic. sadly i tossed it up without editting out the college kid remark and people who are much more aware than myself at 7am caught it and ran with it.

    Its no biggie. Lesson learnt, dont post half a sleep without coffee...

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  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Z3R01


    Originally posted by Robokapp

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.

    If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.

    But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?

     

    The red text in this post is factually wrong.

    50% of WoW's players (that's what 6-7 Million players?) raided in WotLK expansion. It was actually one of the great successes of WotLK.

    Considering WoW is still what 70-80% of the MMO playerbase I'd say that 5% is a bit too 'low'.

    Wotlk didnt have a raid mechanic. take away the ten mans, take away the easy versions of those instances. What was the percentage of players that ran hardmode 25 mans only? should be around 5%.

    And if I only consider those who beat the encounter standing up while playing a flute the % is zero.

    What's your point?

    Or is it that raids are only 'raids' if they meet your personal standard that no one that plays the game accepts?

    That's some bizarro logic there.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367

    Originally posted by Sulaa

    Well biggest failure is level system. Most of game contetnt is made obsolete fast becasue you outlevel it and you can 'finish' game once you hit max level.

    With skill based systems content is used much better. If skill based game is made right there is reason to go back to first areas you started.

     

    Well anyway level system or skill system , games have to start providing real activities additionaly to raiding. Nowadays open world, crafting ,exploring are minimalistic and not importatnt at all , housing frequently non existant or instanced.

    There is no politics, hobbies , mini-games ,etc

     

    So devs need to put incredible time-sinks so they do daily/weekly locks, quest and alot of grinding for medallions ,tokens , etc

    To do that you must do repetetive tasks every day whioch seem like a job. Because there is raiding and instancing and nothing else.

    Don't get me wrong , combat overall is very very important in mmorpg obviously , but if there is nothing else then it gets boring fast.

    Great post! This is exactly my thoughts, thank you!

  • ZolgarZolgar Member Posts: 533

    I'm not one to do the whole raiding thing myself. I have in the past, and I enjoy(ed) it, but I would like it if games offered more to the "end game experience" outside of combat oriented things (raids/PvP).

     

    For example, there could be long story driven quest lines that take hours to complete or meaningful crafting systems where it takes many resources, rare and otherwise, to make weapons, armor, buildings, cosmetics, etc.

     

    As to how these would advance your character, they'd have to be complicated/time consuming enough to warrant the rewards (quest rewards or crafted item) being equal to, or at least close to equal to, gear you would recieve by completing larger group activites (such as raiding). Though they wouldn't have to be rewards to advance you "numbers" wise. Perhaps unique abilities, cosmetic effects, etc. If that's all you're wanting to do (get bigger numbers) then yeah, PvP and Raiding would be the best option obviously, as the advancement there is for taking on higher ranked/better geared players, and bigger more powerful bosses.

    0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3

  • Z3R01Z3R01 Member UncommonPosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Z3R01


    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Z3R01


    Originally posted by Robokapp

    because that guy you hate so much actually is the majority and gamers actually love raiding? you can be a rebel and wear make-up but that wont make you cool enough to have mmo's designed for you.

     

    turns out the no-life college kid one-upped you here, buddy.

    I don't hate him, Its not his fault his life hasent started yet and he has no responsibility yet.

    If i offended you because your a virgin, no life college kid that can spend 80% of his day living in a mmo i apologize.

    But you do realize about 5% of the mmo community raids right? so why would they be catered to?

     

    The red text in this post is factually wrong.

    50% of WoW's players (that's what 6-7 Million players?) raided in WotLK expansion. It was actually one of the great successes of WotLK.

    Considering WoW is still what 70-80% of the MMO playerbase I'd say that 5% is a bit too 'low'.

    Wotlk didnt have a raid mechanic. take away the ten mans, take away the easy versions of those instances. What was the percentage of players that ran hardmode 25 mans only? should be around 5%.

    And if I only consider those who beat the encounter standing up while playing a flute the % is zero.

    What's your point?

    Or is it that raids are only 'raids' if they meet your personal standard that no one that plays the game accepts?

    That's some bizarro logic there.

    No i actually applaud Blizzard for making raiding more casual and Pug friendly but sadly raiding isnt like that in every game. In other games raiding requires a real schedule and way less people actually even bother with it.

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  • SulaaSulaa Member UncommonPosts: 1,329

    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Considering WoW is still what 70-80% of the MMO playerbase I'd say that 5% is a bit too 'low'.

    Wotlk didnt have a raid mechanic. take away the ten mans, take away the easy versions of those instances. What was the percentage of players that ran hardmode 25 mans only? should be around 5%.

    WoW is not 70-80%.

    Aion+Lineage I+LineageII+Runescape only have around 5 mln subscriptions total.

    Then there are other games like Rift having around 500 k , Eve around 300-350k , Lotro around 300 k.  Not to mention smaller games.

    I am not even counting F2P games . (well Runescape and Lotro are but they have subscriptions as well and those numbers afaik count those which subscribe).

     

    So WoW have more like 60%. With Swtor , Gw2 and Tera coming and ArcheAge and TSW following some time after imho WoW might take quite a hit.

     

    Imho games focusing on raiding ONLY or MOSTLY won't do as good as they did. Alot of mmorpg players have or are playing WoW and I am sure many of them looking something bit diffrent.

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,809

    Depends really.   For a while I was in a guild in EQ2 raiding 4 nights a week.   They always wiped on the harder stuff but were funny as hell on vent.. fun to play with.   So I actually liked raid nights... didn't care if we "won" or "lost" it was just having fun with some people.

     

    Had a guild else where that had the same problem with certain content.   So you'd hear some comment about bring in the "better players" and they'd wipe faster...   There was people in the guild I liked and raiding was optional so I just played the game.

     

    Even in the OP's example of Rift... my solution was I never joined a guild.   Every day I did my crafting dailies and sometimes the adventure dailies.   I'd harvest for a while and put things up on the AH to sell...   I was in rift probably only for 60 days and only left because there were design changes made I didn't agree with.

     

    To be honest I probably could have stayed and kept playing it the way I was... I just decided I was sick of stupid changes being made to MMO's.   I guess that sounds mysterious.. I left over changes that were made to some fighter souls.. even tho I played a Scout.. I didn't agree at all with the changes and its probably my number 2 complaint with games... while "raiding" isn't even on my complaint list... unless you want a core design debate but lol anyway.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Z3R01

     

    No i actually applaud Blizzard for making raiding more casual and Pug friendly but sadly raiding isnt like that in every game. In other games raiding requires a real schedule and way less people actually even bother with it.

    Other than EVE which has even more 'boring' stuff (oh my god do I despise POS shooting OH GOD~!), WoW's raiding is probably the template for a lot of games.

    Rift as far as I know has a similar gameplay/difficulty along with Aion.

    Other than FF11/FF14 which has horrendous raids (24 hour raids with 3 'shifts' between 60 people is just insane) not sure which one you are talking about.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • DarkholmeDarkholme Member UncommonPosts: 1,212

    1. In most MMOGs raiding isn't the only thing to do at end game. It depends on how meta and creative you want to get, but there are plenty of other things to do.

    2. 5% of people in MMOGs raid? That number is excruciatingly obviously made up to try and help make your point (aka pulled from thin air with nothing to sunstantiate it). That number is certainly much higher than that, and not only that, the percentage of raiders that actually enjoy it is a lot higher. How do I know? Experience first of all, and there has been actual polling done over the years that bear it out.

    3. Stereotyping raiders as no life youngsters is yet another strike against your argument. I have been in the same casual raiding guild in WoW for going on four years now. The vast majority of our members are older adults with families and busy careers outside of the game. Hell probably over half of our 25 man raiding core is over 40. We raid about 9 hours a week scheduled and have a ton of fun doing it.

    I am not sure what the real issue is for you with regard to your bias against raiding as an end game goal in MMOGs but to me it seems quite misguided, based on my own experience and your arguments here. I feel that if you can find a good core group like I have that fits into your schedule then raiding can be a really fun and rewarding experience.

    -------------------------
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    Member Since March 2004

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    A lot of people lose interest at the cap.

    Your post-cap activities are confined to essentially two categories, Raid or PVP.  It's been this way for fifteen years now.

    My only suggestion would be seeking out a game where the leveling content is pretty repeatable, lots of new classes and builds and options to encourage alt-itis as much as possible.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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