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If this game fails, so does the MMORPG Genre. This is our last hope.

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  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,071

    Originally posted by Divion

    Originally posted by Asheram


    Originally posted by Divion

     

    I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..

    I'm not sure I am understanding why you can't grasp that the simple notion that SWTOR is not the future of mmo's, if it succeeds all the more power to it, if it fails it fails and everything else everywhere else continues on as it always has and always will.You seem to like to paint pictures of stock market crashes and debt ceiling debates. 

    Maybe i didn't articulate my point well enough, - When Aion launched, and failed everyone spoke of how SWTORO will succeed where it failed, when STO launched SWTORO was going to replace those dishoveled fans, DCOU ditto, Rift ditto... for the last 2 years SWTORO has been made out by various communities to be the one everyone was holding out for... if SWTORO failed how can SWTORO save it? it can't... again whats next? How many must fail til people just give up on the notion of another WoW 

    Well then by that reasoning then if it fails maybe it will shock developers out of trying to clone WoW and match its numbers and concentrate on just making a fun game.So then by all accords it will be the opposite of your title and be the genres hope that it fails .But SWTOR isnt going to fail nor do I believe it is going to be a game changer either.People that enjoy Star Wars will have a game to play.

    How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?

     Also seem to be painting a picture here with this that applies to Bioware as if Bioware chooses not to continue in the mmo market if SWTOR doesnt succeed that the market will fail and yet seem to forget the many companies out that are still there doing and planning on future titles even Blizzard itself with its Titan project.

    Blizzard has WoW so of course they will do well, out of consumer curosity alone, that is a given - sure smaller companies will continue to push out superficial MMO's but is that what people want? To play each newMMO for the free sub month then move on waiting for the next money sink?

    And smaller companies will also make non superficial games that might not have said budget of yours but still be fun and a solid foundation to grow on.There are plenty in development that people find just as interesting as SWTOR just because they dont already have a ready made fanbase like the Star Wars ip doesnt mean they are any worse off.A few off the top of my head are ArcheAge, Age of Wulin, Blade and Soul etc.And just because they are not your cup of tea doesnt mean they are suprficial as you put it.

    How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?

    As you said before about Guild Wars not qualifying as an mmo this title from Real Time Worlds was even less of one if at all.

    It's just an example as to how a title failing can pull a company with it.. how many companies will fall with their failing titles before other companies back away from the fickle MMO markets, and move to safer investiments?

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,177

    Originally posted by Divion

    Maybe i didn't articulate my point well enough, - When Aion launched, and failed everyone spoke of how SWTORO will succeed where it failed, when STO launched SWTORO was going to replace those dishoveled fans, DCOU ditto, Rift ditto... for the last 2 years SWTORO has been made out by various communities to be the one everyone was holding out for... if SWTORO failed how can SWTORO save it? it can't... again whats next? How many must fail til people just give up on the notion of another WoW

    Aion failed? I find that hard to believe because Aion generated $58,278,012 in revenue in Quarter 1 of 2011 alone, making up 44% of NCsoft's total income and putting the game far above most others in the industry in terms of profitibility, and MMOdata estimates it to have somewhere short of 3 million subscribers, making it the second highest MMO.

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  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890

    2 things.

    1. Its not a world simulator so regardless of whether I enjoy playing it or not, the game has failed as far as being what I consider an MMORPG. Its an rpg with multiplayer elements to it.

    2. If the genre is dependent on 1 game to success, it has already failed.

  • tank017tank017 Member Posts: 2,192

    Originally posted by Omali

    Originally posted by Divion

    Maybe i didn't articulate my point well enough, - When Aion launched, and failed everyone spoke of how SWTORO will succeed where it failed, when STO launched SWTORO was going to replace those dishoveled fans, DCOU ditto, Rift ditto... for the last 2 years SWTORO has been made out by various communities to be the one everyone was holding out for... if SWTORO failed how can SWTORO save it? it can't... again whats next? How many must fail til people just give up on the notion of another WoW

    Aion failed? I find that hard to believe because Aion generated $58,278,012 in revenue in Quarter 1 of 2011 alone, making up 44% of NCsoft's total income and putting the game far above most others in the industry in terms of profitibility, and MMOdata estimates it to have somewhere short of 3 million subscribers, making it the second highest MMO.

    Yeah,

    alot of people think that because a game 'failed' in the consumers point of view,it basically failed in every facet..

     

    which is hardly ever the case.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    2 things.

    1. Its not a world simulator so regardless of whether I enjoy playing it or not, the game has failed as far as being what I consider an MMORPG. Its an rpg with multiplayer elements to it.

    2. If the genre is dependent on 1 game to success, it has already failed.

    i can't agree more with your number 2. which is why i shake my head and facepalm everytime i see someone make this kind of a claim, or everytime i see the term "WoW killer" used. I just ignore those ignorant people and move on about my day. I suggest everyone else does the same.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • LydarSynnLydarSynn Member UncommonPosts: 181

    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    2 things.

    1. Its not a world simulator so regardless of whether I enjoy playing it or not, the game has failed as far as being what I consider an MMORPG. Its an rpg with multiplayer elements to it.

    2. If the genre is dependent on 1 game to success, it has already failed.

     

    That post is spot on- the genre has never evolved past this stage.

  • odinsrathodinsrath Member UncommonPosts: 814

    "if this game fail so does the mmorpg genre"

    **shakes magic 8 ball**

    it also said "lol"

     

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592

    The amount of hype this game has is utterly obnoxious, and almost completely undeserved.

    <3

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • AkiyeAkiye Member Posts: 109

    If there is money to be made it will be made. Futrue of any type of game never is up to one single game. MMO;s for the biggest part make money. You do no need any near WoW's success to make money.. NO the only peoples gaming future a game like this depends on is you. This game failing or being the nexct WoW will have zero effect on me, I wasnt all the interested in the title to begin with, but the overhype like this is the 2nd coming makes me even more sick of it before its even close to being out.  It;s all hogwash. THere will not be another mmo like the likes of WoW for a long time. Get used to it, stick with WoW, or leave the mmo;s.

  • ChloroCatChloroCat Member Posts: 98

     Yoda says " ..no...there is another." This game want fail but it want end the other Best Sellers out. It'll settle down have a nice fan base and do good numbers like RIFT and WoW, EQ2 and AoC. Ok the AoC was kinda joke even though there are a few people playing it. More power to em. Just don't let EA get hold of it. Ya know what happened to Warhammer.........o damn

    Jymm Byuu
    Playing : Blood Bowl. Waiting for 2. Holding breath for Archeage and EQN.

  • lufiazlufiaz Member UncommonPosts: 122

    I feel sorry for the OP. When a new game doesn't have many defenders in its own forums you know that game has some problems. Heck even FF XIV had more fan(boy)s back then

  • ZergmanZergman Member UncommonPosts: 41

    Havent read the thread...

    Am I the only one hoping it does fail so that a second massive developer doesn't put the final nail in the coffin of creating an MMORPG oligarchy, dictating game design for the next decade and putting me into a self enduced grave?

  • sajiinsajiin Member Posts: 4

    No there is another.....

  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,148

    Originally posted by lufiaz

    I feel sorry for the OP. When a new game doesn't have many defenders in its own forums you know that game has some problems. Heck even FF XIV had more fan(boy)s back then

    Actually, the pattern is the more rabid defenders, the worse the game turns out.

  • jinxxed0jinxxed0 Member UncommonPosts: 841

    lololololol

    Guild Wars 2, ArchAge and a few others are debatable. But ToR is far from being the last hope of MMOs.

    Personally I'd say Guild Wars 2, but I'm sure others have another game in mine. But I'm certain anyone that isn't a star wars super fan knows ToR is just another MMO riding on it's name.

  • NixishNixish Member UncommonPosts: 185

    There will always be another.

  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607

    Originally posted by Zergman

    Havent read the thread...

    Am I the only one hoping it does fail so that a second massive developer doesn't put the final nail in the coffin of creating an MMORPG oligarchy, dictating game design for the next decade and putting me into a self enduced grave?

    I have no particular desire to see the game fail, not because I think it will destroy the genre, but because I generally think that a successful MMO of any kind is good for the business. I always fear WoW-like success because it brings with it unrealistic expectations both from developers/publishers and players. I would like to think the MMO industry has matured enough to move past that, but I'm probably a little too wishful on that. 

  • CorehavenCorehaven Member UncommonPosts: 1,533

    Originally posted by Divion

    1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".

    - First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.

    You are correct.  On GW1.  GW2 is not being built that way.  Its a persistent world.  It is an mmorpg. 

     

    - 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.

    Correct.  However there are plenty of people who play WoW (who ARE the buik of the MMO base), who are really looking forward to GW2.  I dont even care about GW1 and have never played it and dont intend too.  However, Im grabbing GW2 the day it comes out.  Why?  Because Ive done my research.  Its looking to be an incredible game, thats breaking the mold in nearly every way imaginable.  They're doing things in GW2 mmos should have been doing for a decade now, but for some reason haven't. 

     

     

    2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.

     

    Just because Swtor fails?  Just because a game by a developer who's NEVER done an mmorpg before fails thats it for the mmo industry?  Hardly.  If it does fail, just remember, " This has happened before and will again. "  Besides, Blizzard is making an entirely new mmorpg right now.  GW2 is on its way.  You've made the mistake of believing Tor is the most highly anticipated mmorpg ever.  Its not.  Not even at the moment.  If it fails, the industry will continue on as it has.  Bioware will doubtfully create another mmorpg, but other than that, it'll be fine and business will continue as usual. 

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Member Posts: 1,803

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    "if this game fail so does the mmorpg genre"

    **shakes magic 8 ball**

    it also said "lol"

     

    haha!

    actually the mmorpg genre failed me around november 2005. i just kept playing with the survivors (EvE mostly, some EQ1, and ultima online)

    image
    image

  • ZergmanZergman Member UncommonPosts: 41

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    Originally posted by Zergman

    Havent read the thread...

    Am I the only one hoping it does fail so that a second massive developer doesn't put the final nail in the coffin of creating an MMORPG oligarchy, dictating game design for the next decade and putting me into a self enduced grave?

    I have no particular desire to see the game fail, not because I think it will destroy the genre, but because I generally think that a successful MMO of any kind is good for the business. I always fear WoW-like success because it brings with it unrealistic expectations both from developers/publishers and players. I would like to think the MMO industry has matured enough to move past that, but I'm probably a little too wishful on that. 

    I'd agree with your well nurtured, mature sentiment, if Bioware succeeding in its venture was of any benefit to the MMO industry beyond dollars, and not a massive deterent to other companies should they so choose to enter the business. I for one prefere an industry where it makes sound business sense to create a unique and diverse product, that to me is good for the industry. If Blizzard's entry is anything to go by, we should full well expect small developers to dwindle, their alternative titles to be bought and left to rot under B class gaming companies, and a further tsunami of f2p games with 'lightswords' and 'jedy'.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,865

    I doubt it would mean the genre would just fall apart. It will still be around, but people will just be even MORE wary of new games. MMORPG.com represents a very very small portion of the MMO community and a large majority of the people here are either jaded MMO vets who just suspect every new mmo, or mmo vets who have been around for a long time and are looking for a sandbox game. Most people here probably won't look at the bigger picture.

    The real truth of it is that EA and it's investors are spending a ton of money on this game, more then any MMO has spent in history as far as i know.(double the amount, or even tripple the amount of most) No matter how you spin it, this means that investors will be far less willing to fork over money to fund development of a project of this scale in the future if it fails to be profitable. If the game is polished at launch (no doubt) then fails to meet the long term investment, it just further proves that investing a ton of money into a game like this is not a good idea. 

    Some developers would look at more innovative ideas, but innovation leads to failure more often then not in the MMO genre...which has been proven time and time again. With that in mind, I am basing this more off smaller games with niche communities (sandbox) or with a smaller budget. The reason most of those games are free 2 play out of the gate is because they do not have the level of polish a game would have if it were funded by a big publisher like EA. 

    Another thing to consider is Bioware as a company. Bioware has invested a ton of work into this game and if it fails to profit -- or they even lose profit...it could mean the end of the company as we know it. I don't think there are many people out there who would want this to happen, even if they hated MMORPGs / SWTOR. 

    I don't think it is our "last hope" but i certainly think it will be a huge nail in the coffin for mainstream MMORPGs. Mainstream being, the ones people want to play, not underpolished buggy messes. 

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,407

    The only people that think SW:ToR will be a "failure" are those that think that anything less than 10 million subs is somehow a failure.

    I don't see SW:ToR selling less than a million boxes, though where the economy goes in the next month, or three could impact that. Rift, an unknown IP, and and widely thought to be just another clone of WoW, sold somewhere in the neighborhood of a million boxes, as did AoC, and Warhammer, if memory serves. That's $50 million right off the bat, or roughly half their development costs. To be honest, given Bioware's name recognition, the popularity of KotOR, and Star Wars in general, I think they could probably do closer to 2 million boxes. Cataclysm being effectively at the end of it's life cycle by the time Star Wars releases doesn't hurt them, either. 2 million box sales means development costs are recouped right off the bat, basically. Making anything they get after that gravy.

    If, for whatever reason, Star Wars had extremely poor box sales, and practically zero retention, and was shut down after 3 months, that's going to have roughly zero effect on the MMOG genre as a whole. Most, if not all, the games slated to release down the road will still do so, and will in all likelihood make a profit. Particularly if the developers don't get lulled in to thinking that throwing more money at a project will automagically make it a success.

    So, no, this game is quite far from our last hope, nor does the future of the genre rest on the success of SW:ToR.

  • glim3merglim3mer Member UncommonPosts: 154

    The MMORPG genre will not fail, if SWTOR fails, because the MMORPG genre is driven by elements outside of gaming; human psychology. 

    Same reason facebook gaming apps have become a huge success, the actual games are dull and simple, but adictive.... hence the success.

  • neorandomneorandom Member Posts: 1,681

    for all the flaming and trolling that occurs on this forum, this thread is one of the worst.

     

    did you know that you can literally count the number of failed mmorps, on your fingers.

     

    namely they are auto assault (great game but never caught on, plug pulled 1 year after launch) 

    tabula rasa, plug pulled less then 1 year after launch

    asherons call 2, plug pulled before they ever properly plugged it in

     

     

    just because an mmo like vangaurd, or age of conan, or war, never hits wow sub numbers, does not make it a failure,

    its a recurrent theme on this forum that if a game isnt wow, its fail, well suck it up if the servers are running and a population is playing and it lasts 2+ years, its not failed.

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