Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

TOR is NGE2 for SWG. and Titan is WOW2 for Lucas Arts

24567

Comments

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Phry



    unfortunately.. the NGE does what it does.. fairly badly.. the game should be closed down just for how bad it is..  if SWG had been allowed to evolve naturally, there is a chance it would have been a much better game... not like WoW.. but more like Eve.. in terms of numbers, Scifi games even Starwars based.. don't have the appeal of fantasy games, despite my own preferences, i know that SWG would never have been more than a Niche game, and yes.. themeparks do have broader appeal.. but SW:TOR's biggest problem at the moment.. from what i've seen at least, is that the game appears to rely on gimmicks.. Even WoW had to have a solid game beneath all that questing etc.. SW:TOR.. as yet.. doesnt appear to have that grounding. once the game is released we'll know for sure.. all that can be done at the moment is speculation based on released information.. but for  delusional and judgement bias.. look no further than FFXIV and DCUO prelaunch..  if you think something like that couldnt possibly happen again...  well.. we'll see image

    Don't kid yourself, SWG was losing a lot of subs already before NGE. Although I agree, if WoW and to a lesser degree EQ2 hadn't been released at that time and if they hadn't resorted to the rushed NGE move then very likely SWG would have fared better than it did.

    As for SWTOR's features and gameplay, like said, it has all the features modern day AAA themepark MMO's have and to a larger extent than most of them.

    You name an FFXIV which was far from a WoW-styled themepark MMO with a lot of crappy, unpolished features and DCUO that had only questing/leveling content for like 50 hours of gameplay before you reached level cap, and it was missing a number of standard themepark MMO features. Yes, I call thinking that such a comparison is valid only a reinforcement of delusion and judgement bias image

    It would already sound far more sensible and a closer approximation to reality if you'd compare it with a LotrO or Rift: polished, good quality themepark MMO gameplay with the standard set of themepark features present.

    Of course, SWTOR will have more than those 2 MMO's had, but at least we'd be discussing things from a foundation of common sense and reasonable speculation.

     

    the only comparison i was drawing, by naming those 2 MMO's (which had already been made earlier btw) was not in the features they offered.. but the fact that both games, were hyped as being the next big thing..  Final Fantasy should have been a certainty.. at least based on who created it..  DCUO not so much.. but.. it claimed innovation.. among other things...  as for the history of SWG.. im well aware.. the first big 'hit' the game took was with the Combat Upgrade, and of course when levels were introduced into the game.. which broke a lot of the mechanics used by creatures... the losses sustained by the NGE though, make those losses pale by comparison..  but this is a subject thats already well documented.. it shouldnt need repeating..

    i don't actually think SW;TOR will fail.. but im not ruling it out as a possibility..  i don't think however, that the game is going to be as nearly successful as the hype surrounding this game would have people believe, im not even sure the game will do as well as Rift has...image

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    The first big hit that SWG took was in November 2004, when both EQ2 and WoW were released. That's when it started, the CU was 5 months or so later.

    As for comparing, yeah, the whole hype blabla shindig, it can either have a point (WoW, LotrO, Rift) or hype/expectations and reality can be completely out of synch (AoC, STO, FFXIV). Since it looks like SWTOR will have the polished gameplay and high quality production value I expect it to do at least as well as LotrO or Rift did, especially since it'll have all the core themepark features those other MMO's have. As for a larger degree of success for a longer term, we'll see, but from what is known so far it'll offer a lot more content than those other themepark MMO's did, so that looks promising as well.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543

    Originally posted by gotha

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

    Yeah, SOPE does actually. Ever heard of The Matrix Online?

  • gothagotha Member UncommonPosts: 1,074

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

    Yeah, SOPE does actually. Ever heard of The Matrix Online?

    Dammit knew that comment was going to come back and bite me.    Still this hits on heals of them reupping their liscences with Lucas arts.  

  • GuileplayerGuileplayer Member Posts: 418

    is it me or TC is a SWG faboy who keeps creating these qq topics about SWG closing down. How many topics you created now about this? give it a rest bro. Go outside and do other things. There are life outside of video games lol. You don't like what ToR turning out to be? don't play it lol its as simple as that. Take a deep breath, relax and embrace SWG's failure. Blame the vets for its shut down not ToR. If you supported it over the years it wouldn't have come to this.

    Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Exactly guileplayer. If more people played SWG it would still be open and the nerdragers would all still be playing house on tattoine instead of getting their panties all in a bunch over a game that has nothing to do with their boring sandbox.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by Phry

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    yes, we get it, you people dont like teh fact that every mmo that comes out doesnt cater to you, we get it we dont need more threads on it.

     

    Also people seem to forget that teh bad thing about the NGE, was that it was a game, imprinted onto a game, imprinted onto a game, and thats why it didnt work.

     

    If SWG was built from teh ground up for the gameplay of the NGE it would have been fine, and still better than most other mmos.

     if the NGE had never hit SWG..  would people bother with SW:TOR.... i doubt it.. at least not in any kind of numbers..

    Ya, they would have, because SWG isnt the godly super popular game the internet makes it out to be, it was an decent game with good mechanics.

     

    Really, anyone who thinks no one would bother with TOR if SWG was still going to be around in ANY form, is delusional, plain and simple/

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by gotha

    Originally posted by Xondar123


    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

    Yeah, SOPE does actually. Ever heard of The Matrix Online?

    Dammit knew that comment was going to come back and bite me.   

    Not really, thats one game they bought after it was already dying to try and save it.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • KruulKruul Member UncommonPosts: 482

    Dear kruul,

    Thank you for ordering from Origin Store on July 21, 2011. The following email is a summary of your order. Please use this as your proof of purchase.   If you paid by credit card, please look for EA * Origin.com on your credit card billing statement.

    LOOKING UP YOUR ORDER

    1. Go to http://store.origin.com and click on the Customer Service link. You may also find other helpful information on this page.

    2. Look up your order either through “View recent order history and purchase details” link at the top of the page.

    DOWNLOADABLE PRODUCTS

    Downloadable products may be accessed by looking up your order. When the order summary appears, click on the Download link next to the product name.

    PHYSICAL PRODUCTS

    You will receive a separate e-mail notification when your products have shipped.

    PREORDER PRODUCTS

    Please note that preordered items are not available until the day they are released.

    Please note: This e-mail message was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please visit help.origin.com/ to submit any further questions.

    Sincerely,

    Origin Store Customer Support

    YOUR ORDER AND BILLING INFORMATION

    Order Number: xxxxxxx

    Order Date: July 21, 2011

     

     

     

    Product

    SKU: 71185

    Product Name: STAR WARS(TM): The Old Republic(TM) Digital Deluxe Edition Pre-Order

    Qty Ordered: 1

    Amount: $5.00

    Digital Rights: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx



    Product SKU: 71199

    Product Name: STAR WARS(TM): The Old Republic(TM) Digital Deluxe Edition (Pre-Ordered)

    Anticipated Released Date: Targeting Holiday 2011

    Qty Ordered: 1

    Amount: $74.99

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This was an easy purchase. I spend more than this in 1 night at the bar

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    As for SWG vets and bitterness, can you really blame them, SWG may not have been perfect at its launch, but it really had a lot of potential. Then six months or so later WoW hits and the bleeding that was already there becomes cut to a major artery and then instead of treating the wound, SOE amputates the limb. All MMO's should be a bit bitter about that, not because of the eventual death of SWG, but because of the way its death will likely limited the future of MMO design. 

    As someone already mention, had SWG evolved naturally without the NGE (which probably would have meant not having WoW in the background transforming MMO's and developers expectations) it likely would have found its own success, at a niche level. 

    I understand being upset over the NGE. I have friends that used to work for SOE a long time ago and they've told me horror stories about that time.

    HOWEVER, it's been six years. SIX YEARS. At some point, you have to let it go. Yeah, it sucked. Yeah, it was a dick move. I get it. But it doesn't matter anymore because SWG is going to shut down anyway. It's like the people who are still pissed about Trammel in UO. It's been a decade. Let it go.

  • jjjk29jjjk29 Member Posts: 295

    Originally posted by kasta

    Oh, I think people are overestimating Blizzard's originality.  Warcraft I, II, III.  Starcraft I, II.  Diablo I, II, III.  Ummm, yeah. a paragon of originality.

      Im sorry but Warcraft and Starcraft are far from original...

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by Xondar123


    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

    Yeah, SOPE does actually. Ever heard of The Matrix Online?

    Dammit knew that comment was going to come back and bite me.   

    Not really, thats one game they bought after it was already dying to try and save it.

    And its rumored they only bought the Matrix Online so they could get the DCUO license. Vanguard is a unique situation. Even though it was a train wreck it was made by Brad McQuade whos name still draws a lot of water among MMOers. So when it became possible to buy Sigil out SOE did so. Not because I feel they give a crap about Vanguard, but because they didn't want that IP to end up in the hands of a competitor that may actully make the game playable and popular, and therefore a direct competitor against EQ and EQ2. I feel they have left Vanguard running on life suppoert because they are trying to get as much of their investment in cock blocking it away from the rest of the industry back, and once it has paid for itself they will just shut it down.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,834

    Originally posted by gotha

    Originally posted by Xondar123


    Originally posted by gotha


    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.

    Yeah, SOPE does actually. Ever heard of The Matrix Online?

    Dammit knew that comment was going to come back and bite me.    Still this hits on heals of them reupping their liscences with Lucas arts.  

     

    It didn't really come back to bite you.   The Matrix Online was only ever aquired by SOE because it was a requirement for them to the the license to make DCUO.   The Matrix Online was in serious trouble long before SOE took over but they never had any interest in that product.... they wanted the license for the DC game.

     

    So I can't really say it was ever a suprise they put no resources into The Maxtrix Online or that they shut it down.   It of course sucked for the people playing the game.   Tho honestly I never understood why SOE bought Vanguard... I happened to have been in that beta when it was still a Microsoft product.

     

    When you consider how much money Microsoft had put into Vanguard and how unfinished the game was.. its not like another company was going to pick it up and "compete" with SOE's titles or any title.

     

    Anyway as to the topic... Lucas Arts obviously has a license fee for their IP.   I would imagine that SOE had some concern about the population numbers post TOR.   Free to play isn't a guarantee people would spend money.. so it was no suprise it wasn't an option.   Would you really want to be obligated to a license fee without a guarantee you won't lose money.

     

    So shutting down SWG most likely was actually a mutual decision..   Obviously if SOE felt they could make money they would run the game.   If LA was going to make money off the IP license they have no incentive to not grant it.   The more sources of license fee = more money.   So there is no motivation for LA to shut the game down...   It would also be a bit odd for LA to have a seperate game with SOE (which they do in fact have) based on Star Wars if LA was responsible for shutting down SWG.

     

    SOE probably also wants to consolidate their focus on Planetside/EQ next projects.   They would obviously be best served by releasing a decent MMO or two... at this point.   Whether that happens or not.. lol...  *shakes magic 8 ball*

     

    *edited to add* The Matrix Online aquisition reason was not a *rumor*.   It was very well documented at the time and no I'm not going to try and find the articles.  Just as it was documented at the time how many tens of millions MicroSoft had invested into Sigil/Vangaurd when Microsoft cut them loose.   If you were in Beta when MS was still involved then you would know how bad the project was for the money already invested.   How many companies do you really think were going to pay off Sigils debts.   Take the year that was needed minimum and 10's of more millions to have competed with EQ1 or 2.   


  • Originally posted by jjjk29

    Originally posted by kasta

    Oh, I think people are overestimating Blizzard's originality.  Warcraft I, II, III.  Starcraft I, II.  Diablo I, II, III.  Ummm, yeah. a paragon of originality.

      Im sorry but Warcraft and Starcraft are far from original...

    he was being sarcastic when saying they were original. ;)

  • LeoghanLeoghan Member Posts: 607

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    As for SWG vets and bitterness, can you really blame them, SWG may not have been perfect at its launch, but it really had a lot of potential. Then six months or so later WoW hits and the bleeding that was already there becomes cut to a major artery and then instead of treating the wound, SOE amputates the limb. All MMO's should be a bit bitter about that, not because of the eventual death of SWG, but because of the way its death will likely limited the future of MMO design. 

    As someone already mention, had SWG evolved naturally without the NGE (which probably would have meant not having WoW in the background transforming MMO's and developers expectations) it likely would have found its own success, at a niche level. 

    I understand being upset over the NGE. I have friends that used to work for SOE a long time ago and they've told me horror stories about that time.

    HOWEVER, it's been six years. SIX YEARS. At some point, you have to let it go. Yeah, it sucked. Yeah, it was a dick move. I get it. But it doesn't matter anymore because SWG is going to shut down anyway. It's like the people who are still pissed about Trammel in UO. It's been a decade. Let it go.

    There are people still upset over the New Deal (not exactly the same, but...) and many of them were not even alive. 

  • zimmy910zimmy910 Member UncommonPosts: 190


    Originally posted by kasta
    Oh, I think people are overestimating Blizzard's originality.  Warcraft I, II, III.  Starcraft I, II.  Diablo I, II, III.  Ummm, yeah. a paragon of originality.

    Blizzard games aren't known for their originality. But the games they make are usually so well done that they're almost always a joy to play. Unless you don't like an entire genre like Diablo. Then Diablo III won't do much for you.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Also people seem to forget that teh bad thing about the NGE, was that it was a game, imprinted onto a game, imprinted onto a game, and thats why it didnt work.

     If SWG was built from teh ground up for the gameplay of the NGE it would have been fine, and still better than most other mmos.

    QFT.  It was a whole bunch like creating "Prince of Persia" with the "Neverwinter Nights" physics engine.  It starts with "Jedi can't jump" and gets worse from there.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by zimmy910

     




    Originally posted by kasta

    Oh, I think people are overestimating Blizzard's originality.  Warcraft I, II, III.  Starcraft I, II.  Diablo I, II, III.  Ummm, yeah. a paragon of originality.




     

    Blizzard games aren't known for their originality. But the games they make are usually so well done that they're almost always a joy to play. Unless you don't like an entire genre like Diablo. Then Diablo III won't do much for you.

    Yepperoni.  I'll take games that are similar but consistently good over "different for the sake of being different", any day.  Sometimes something different can lead to great things, but most often, there's a reason nobody made a game like X before.

  • OkhamsRazorOkhamsRazor Member Posts: 1,047

    To the OP we know very little about TOR and next to nothing about Titan so whats the point in this thread untill we do ??? Its all conjecture and a bit daft to start up a thread like this at present . It seams to me your trying to troll a game thats not even in closed beta yet and flame a game thats years from release .I  think your wanting to make mischief in these forums . Have you nothing better to do with your life ?

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by gotha

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    A) Lucas Arts isn't shutting down SWG, SOE is. B) How can TOR be NGE2 if it is an entirely different game from SWG?

    Ho hum, more "I wanted SWG2!" complaints.

     

    Cause SOE is always shutting down games that only pull a small profit.  Must be why they shut down vanguard.......oooh wait.

    This call came from Lucas Arts who probably did not want to renew the lisences.  I suspect most shit calls came from Lucas Arts.  I am pretty sure there is an former SWG dev blog somewhere on the internet that confirms that with NGE.


    • The matrix online (closed down)

    • The Agency (terminated)

    • Champions of Norrath (closed down)

    • Dungeon Overlord (sold)

    • SWG (closing down)

    • Platform publishing - PC/mmos (Closed)

    SOE has no trouble closing down failed/failing projects, especially if their is a 3rd party fee to be paid. 


    Anyhow, Smed has already admitted that SOE didn't try to renegotiate the SWG license again, because it wasn't the right thing to do.


     


     


     


     


    As for the original topic, I don't really get the NGE2.0 comments as far as SWTOR goes.  Sure it looks to have a lot of similar elements to wow, but it isn't really like the NGE in most regards.  I think Lucas Arts would rather have people paying them subscription fees to 2 Star Wars games instead of 1 and we all know there would be a ton of people who would do that if there were 2 good Star Wars games on the market.  There really is no need to close down SWG to force people to buy SWTOR.  First of all there really are not that many people left playing SWG and second, almost all of them would buy it anyhow. 


     


    As for Titan being a sandbox game, I would love to see information that suggests that.  Even something that says it will be a sandbox/theme park hybrid would be good news looking at what is currently available. 


     


     


     
  • MyGaronaMyGarona Member Posts: 139
    Close. Cataclysm is NGE2.
  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Thankfully, TOR will be nothing like SWG.

    SWG was terribly mismanaged by SOE - that's why it closed. I'm thrilled that BiowarEA isn't SOE and even more pleased that TOR isn't NGESWG.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    Glad this shite thread was put where it belongs. If you want to talk about SWG, do it here. Quit littering the TOR forums. Thanks.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • RajCajRajCaj Member UncommonPosts: 704

    Originally posted by wrekognize

    LA is giving all SWG players the middle finger and saying, play TOR if you want a Star Wars MMO. In turn, we are losing one of the last standing sandbox games. And yes SWG is still a sandbox game as it is now.  Much more so than 98% of the games out there.  There is no other reason why LA is shutting down SWG than to say, play TOR or else.  The sub numbers of SWG were far greater than many other MMOs i've tried.  Three highly active servers, a handful of medium servers and the rest low.  and Lucas Arts will get theirs. Quote me on this.  Blizzard will come out with a polished sandbox game that will set a new standard.  The project is called Titan (google it).  And Titan will do to TOR what WOW did to SWG.  In the end, Blizzard will have owned Lucas Arts twice.  First by using a themepark game (WOW) to destroy the sandbox (SWG), then by using a sandbox game (Titan) to destroy the themepark (TOR).  At least I will have a freaking game to play this time around.  TOR could have been innovative and made a stand in the MMO industry.  Instead, they are taking the easy "safe" route.  It will be RTS games and Chess for me in this day and age of MMOs.  Enjoy your storybook grind in the meantime..

     I hate to break it to ya man, but everything I've seen so far (including an article on MMORPG.com) is that Titan will be an even "more" casual MMO than WOW is...and also rummored to be a MMOFPS.

    And while we are on polished sandboxes......the only game in town thats trying this out (which seemed impossible due to such a high risk involved) is ArcheAge.  It's the only AAA sandbox game thats going to have been released in the last 5-6 years.  Before this, all convential wisdom has said that the only way we get a decent sandbox game is if the developers figure out a MUCH cheaper way to develop & produce the game.....given the limited revenue opprotunity as sandbox MMORPGs makeup a small piece of the MMO pie.

     

    But if you have any info on Titan being a sandbox game, I'd be very excited at this news, and wouldn't mind a link :)

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Member UncommonPosts: 2,156

    Oh God this is a stupid thread.

    image
    image

Sign In or Register to comment.