Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

A list of real world military tactics

13»

Comments

  • AluviusAluvius Member Posts: 288

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Aluvius


     

     So yes you got me, its only now 8 years old. I think the last time I loaded it up was in 2008-ish, yes what a horrible game that I only played it for 5 years.  However, since you most likely still won't accept this more detailed answer, let me really blow your mind.

    Wait for it ...

    I'm still subscribed to PS1 since I have a station pass sub lol.

    So by your logic (some famous logician that I don't know just rolled in his grave) ... I never quit and the call is coming from your own house!!1 

     

    Back to the only point you even semi reasonably addressed, its not an "I Win Button" if everyone has it.   Which before you can fast type it out, was actually your assertion up thread.  That the game was ruineeeeed by everyone having these powers.  Isn't that the textbook definition of balance?

    Also an EMP strike doesn't have enough of an aoe range to take out a full CE field, it only disables turrets for a few seconds and a mine pattern is one of the quickest things you can lay back down.  Which I guess translates into Unreasonablese as "ohmygodafewsecondswehavelostiquitraaaage".

    It is still an "I Win Button" if everyone has it, it destroyed the game, like Jedi which is available to everyone destroyed SWG.

    The EMP has enough range to take out a full CE field, and a mine pattern isn't one of the quickest things you can lay back down if your in the middle of a battle.  Once mines are gone you fall back, which pretty much negates the use of mines as defensive tools in the first place.

     

    SO why did you quit....PLAYING?

    But everyone having a Jedi didn't imbalance the game, that was another problem in that people became entitled to something they hadn't worked at.  We're talking about a rvr mmofps where everyone could eventually get access to every cert and every command rank if they just worked at it the same as with original SWG Jedi.  Now I'm beginning to wonder if I'm dealing with a lazy person that was jealous because other people put in the time to get the Command Ranks (Jedi).   I'm confused.

    I can only repeat that its not imbalanced if everyone has access to it and its on a timer.

    As to EMP ranges, only if a full CE field is placed on top of each other, who'd put a pattern down like that?  You do know that they added advanced engineering that expanded the number of items you could place?  Plus you most certainly can lay down a quick pattern in the middle of a battle .. people do it all the time in PS1.  I had loadouts specifically for that purpose filled with nothing but ACE's.  I got all sorts of achievements with CE kills alone.

     Also I noticed you ignored the part about it not destroying turrets, that they are back in operation in what, 30 seconds?   30 SECONDS? (imagine that bolded and underlined, sorry I'm too lazy to figure out how all those buttons work but hopefully it still has as much emotional impact as when you did it).

    You continue to ask the same question and I keep giving you the same answer only more detailed.  I gave you my 2 dollars, now why are you still following me around on your bicycle?

    Also you never answered my question about why you're here on these new fangled forums instead of sending electronic mail (that is mail sent electronically, its all the rage) on your AOL that you read on your 16 color rgb monitor?*

     

     

    *I'll give you a hint, that's actually not a question but yet another answer to your question.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Aluvius

     

    But everyone having a Jedi didn't imbalance the game,

    I didn't say imbalance the game, I said destroyed the game.  Every one has a checker piece in the game of checkers but I wouldn't pay $15 a month to play checkers.  I will pay $15 a month for a cerebral FPS game with a rich tactical environment, not Team Fortress III.

    that was another problem in that people became entitled to something they hadn't worked at.  We're talking about a rvr mmofps where everyone could eventually get access to every cert and every command rank if they just worked at it the same as with original SWG Jedi.  Now I'm beginning to wonder if I'm dealing with a lazy person that was jealous because other people put in the time to get the Command Ranks (Jedi).   I'm confused.

    You're suppose to out-think your opponent, not out-grind your opponent.  Fine call me lazy, don't care, but I am not interested in Grind2Win.

    I can only repeat that its not imbalanced if everyone has access to it and its on a timer.

    Never said anything about balance, the OS is perfectly balanced.  It was probably the most balanced thing in the game.  All 3 sides had pretty much equal amount of I-win button users.  It still destroyed the game.

    As to EMP ranges, only if a full CE field is placed on top of each other, who'd put a pattern down like that?  You do know that they added advanced engineering that expanded the number of items you could place?  Plus you most certainly can lay down a quick pattern in the middle of a battle .. people do it all the time in PS1.  I had loadouts specifically for that purpose filled with nothing but ACE's.  I got all sorts of achievements with CE kills alone.

    The I-win button EMP strike had the range to clear out half the courtyard, and who cares about achievements.

     Also I noticed you ignored the part about it not destroying turrets, that they are back in operation in what, 30 seconds?   30 SECONDS? (imagine that bolded and underlined, sorry I'm too lazy to figure out how all those buttons work but hopefully it still has as much emotional impact as when you did it).

    30 seconds in a FPS is long enough for someone with a pistol to destroy half of them.

    You continue to ask the same question and I keep giving you the same answer only more detailed.  I gave you my 2 dollars, now why are you still following me around on your bicycle?

    Also you never answered my question about why you're here on these new fangled forums instead of sending electronic mail (that is mail sent electronically, its all the rage) on your AOL that you read on your 16 color rgb monitor?*

     Wut?

    *I'll give you a hint, that's actually not a question but yet another answer to your question.

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Aluvius


     

     So yes you got me, its only now 8 years old. I think the last time I loaded it up was in 2008-ish, yes what a horrible game that I only played it for 5 years.  However, since you most likely still won't accept this more detailed answer, let me really blow your mind.

    Wait for it ...

    I'm still subscribed to PS1 since I have a station pass sub lol.

    So by your logic (some famous logician that I don't know just rolled in his grave) ... I never quit and the call is coming from your own house!!1 

     

    Back to the only point you even semi reasonably addressed, its not an "I Win Button" if everyone has it.   Which before you can fast type it out, was actually your assertion up thread.  That the game was ruineeeeed by everyone having these powers.  Isn't that the textbook definition of balance?

    Also an EMP strike doesn't have enough of an aoe range to take out a full CE field, it only disables turrets for a few seconds and a mine pattern is one of the quickest things you can lay back down.  Which I guess translates into Unreasonablese as "ohmygodafewsecondswehavelostiquitraaaage".

    It is still an "I Win Button" if everyone has it, it destroyed the game, like Jedi which is available to everyone destroyed SWG.

    The EMP has enough range to take out a full CE field, and a mine pattern isn't one of the quickest things you can lay back down if your in the middle of a battle.  Once mines are gone you fall back, which pretty much negates the use of mines as defensive tools in the first place.

     

    SO why did you quit....PLAYING?

    Look up this word...parity...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Slampig

     

    Look up this word...parity...

    deep

  • AluviusAluvius Member Posts: 288

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Aluvius


     

    But everyone having a Jedi didn't imbalance the game,

    I didn't say imbalance the game, I said destroyed the game.  Every one has a checker piece in the game of checkers but I wouldn't pay $15 a month to play checkers.  I will pay $15 a month for a cerebral FPS game with a rich tactical environment, not Team Fortress III.

    that was another problem in that people became entitled to something they hadn't worked at.  We're talking about a rvr mmofps where everyone could eventually get access to every cert and every command rank if they just worked at it the same as with original SWG Jedi.  Now I'm beginning to wonder if I'm dealing with a lazy person that was jealous because other people put in the time to get the Command Ranks (Jedi).   I'm confused.

    You're suppose to out-think your opponent, not out-grind your opponent.  Fine call me lazy, don't care, but I am not interested in Grind2Win.

    I can only repeat that its not imbalanced if everyone has access to it and its on a timer.

    Never said anything about balance, the OS is perfectly balanced.  It was probably the most balanced thing in the game.  All 3 sides had pretty much equal amount of I-win button users.  It still destroyed the game.

    As to EMP ranges, only if a full CE field is placed on top of each other, who'd put a pattern down like that?  You do know that they added advanced engineering that expanded the number of items you could place?  Plus you most certainly can lay down a quick pattern in the middle of a battle .. people do it all the time in PS1.  I had loadouts specifically for that purpose filled with nothing but ACE's.  I got all sorts of achievements with CE kills alone.

    The I-win button EMP strike had the range to clear out half the courtyard, and who cares about achievements.

     Also I noticed you ignored the part about it not destroying turrets, that they are back in operation in what, 30 seconds?   30 SECONDS? (imagine that bolded and underlined, sorry I'm too lazy to figure out how all those buttons work but hopefully it still has as much emotional impact as when you did it).

    30 seconds in a FPS is long enough for someone with a pistol to destroy half of them.

    You continue to ask the same question and I keep giving you the same answer only more detailed.  I gave you my 2 dollars, now why are you still following me around on your bicycle?

    Also you never answered my question about why you're here on these new fangled forums instead of sending electronic mail (that is mail sent electronically, its all the rage) on your AOL that you read on your 16 color rgb monitor?*

     Wut?

    *I'll give you a hint, that's actually not a question but yet another answer to your question.

     You've worn me down and drained my bag of witty comebacks.  I just can't explain the same concepts over and over unless I can do it with humor and acidic wit.  So go reread my posts, that was some of my best work.

    That being said, what destroyed the game is well known, mostly that people didn't want to pay a sub fee for an mmofps as Global Agenda found out much later.  I guess because so many fps fans tend to blow gaskets and take their balls home when they think a single mechanic they don't like has ruinated the game.  That and as I said people can only play games for so long until they tire of them, that's why not many people are still playing  Doom. 

    By the way that was another answer to your never ending question of why I don't play any more.  Things get old after 5 years.  People like bright shiny toys because they are bright and shiny.

    Oh and "Team Fortress III" (I wish I knew how to make an eyeroll smiley thing), aka Planetside 2, is going to be f2p so your $15 a month are safe.

    .

    .

    .

     

    Okay wait, I can't let this one go.  You said that an emp aoe could take out half of a base courtyard.   I swear to the Noodly One your hyperbole is killing me.  At best on the smallest of the bases it could cover a quarter of the courtyard and on the largest bases (dropship centers) barely a sixth or an eighth.  And have you bothered to look at any of the PS2 trailers?  These bases are huge more like towns with alot of buildings and streets.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Aluvius

     

     You've worn me down and drained my bag of witty comebacks.  I just can't explain the same concepts over and over unless I can do it with humor and acidic wit.  So go reread my posts, that was some of my best work.

    That being said, what destroyed the game is well known, mostly that people didn't want to pay a sub fee for an mmofps as Global Agenda found out much later.  I guess because so many fps fans tend to blow gaskets and take their balls home when they think a single mechanic they don't like has ruinated the game.  That and as I said people can only play games for so long until they tire of them, that's why not many people are still playing  Doom. 

    By the way that was another answer to your never ending question of why I don't play any more.  Things get old after 5 years.  People like bright shiny toys because they are bright and shiny.

    Oh and "Team Fortress III" (I wish I knew how to make an eyeroll smiley thing), aka Planetside 2, is going to be f2p so your $15 a month are safe.

    .

    .

    .

     

    Okay wait, I can't let this one go.  You said that an emp aoe could take out half of a base courtyard.   I swear to the Noodly One your hyperbole is killing me.  At best on the smallest of the bases it could cover a quarter of the courtyard and on the largest bases (dropship centers) barely a sixth or an eighth.  And have you bothered to look at any of the PS2 trailers?  These bases are huge more like towns with alot of buildings and streets.

    A)  You must be talking about the smaller EMP OS which is on a shorter timer in addition to a larger EMP OS which is on a longer timer.  There are many I-win buttons on the CUD.

    B)  It doesn't matter what P2 looks like

    "People like bright shiny toys because they are bright and shiny" is pretty weasel of you to not answer.  Let me rephrase that.  What would have to have changed in Planetside to keep you playing, other then the obvious graphics upgrade to the ancient graphics?

    I left Planetside after 9 months cause of A,B,C and D; and A.B.C and D "got old".

  • AluviusAluvius Member Posts: 288

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Aluvius


     

     You've worn me down and drained my bag of witty comebacks.  I just can't explain the same concepts over and over unless I can do it with humor and acidic wit.  So go reread my posts, that was some of my best work.

    That being said, what destroyed the game is well known, mostly that people didn't want to pay a sub fee for an mmofps as Global Agenda found out much later.  I guess because so many fps fans tend to blow gaskets and take their balls home when they think a single mechanic they don't like has ruinated the game.  That and as I said people can only play games for so long until they tire of them, that's why not many people are still playing  Doom. 

    By the way that was another answer to your never ending question of why I don't play any more.  Things get old after 5 years.  People like bright shiny toys because they are bright and shiny.

    Oh and "Team Fortress III" (I wish I knew how to make an eyeroll smiley thing), aka Planetside 2, is going to be f2p so your $15 a month are safe.

    .

    .

    .

     

    Okay wait, I can't let this one go.  You said that an emp aoe could take out half of a base courtyard.   I swear to the Noodly One your hyperbole is killing me.  At best on the smallest of the bases it could cover a quarter of the courtyard and on the largest bases (dropship centers) barely a sixth or an eighth.  And have you bothered to look at any of the PS2 trailers?  These bases are huge more like towns with alot of buildings and streets.

    A)  You must be talking about the smaller EMP OS which is on a shorter timer in addition to a larger EMP OS which is on a longer timer.  There are many I-win buttons on the CUD.

    B)  It doesn't matter what P2 looks like

    "People like bright shiny toys because they are bright and shiny" is pretty weasel of you to not answer.  Let me rephrase that.  What would have to have changed in Planetside to keep you playing, other then the obvious graphics upgrade to the ancient graphics?

    I left Planetside after 9 months cause of A,B,C and D; and A.B.C and D "got old".

     A) No you don't know what you're talking about.  There was only 1 (one) EMP blast, then you got a small orbital strike, then at command rank 5 your small orbital strike was upgraded to the big one.  So you had a single EMP blast on a shorter timer and an OS strike on a minimum hour timer (I think it was longer).  Every command rank ability was on a timer.  The reveal enemies ability was a single static pass that just showed you where people were at that single instant in time.  I guess you don't play any of the modern fps games with drones that update enemy positions in real time?

    B) This forum is titled "Planetside 2"

     

    There is no weaseling, the answer is the answer but you are just not accepting it for some reason that can only be psychologically based.  I played a game for 5 years.  A game.  I got tired of the game.  Because I played it for 5 years.  I played other games.   Games that I had not been playing for 5 years.   How much simpler can I put this?  Are you thinking you might trip me up into revealing the "real" reason I only played it for 5 years instead of forever if you ask me just one more time?  I'm sorry but The Closer you are not.

    If they did nothing but replicate Planetside 1 gameplay with a new graphical engine then I would play it.   Remember I'm the one that played it for at least 5 years, not the one that got twisted up over a single gameplay mechanic and quit after 9 months.

    Although that does explain your lack of knowledge over basic gameplay elements.  You didn't know a single thing about the advanced engineering gameplay did you?  You didn't even get any command rank did you yet here you are opining about how you think it broke the game.  Unbelievable.   No scratch that, this is the mmorpg.com forums so it is completely believable heh.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    I only got to command rank 2 before realizing I didn't feel like grinding for a year to get I-win buttons and BFR's, so yeah I left the game before the new useless engineering crap came out because the old engineering crap was made useless by the CUD I-win buttons.

  • CrimsonFalkonCrimsonFalkon Member UncommonPosts: 46

    Originally posted by Aluvius

    Planetside 1 had the best tactical play in any mmo I"ve seen outside of maybe PotBS (which was much more limited) although I guess WW2Online would probably be up there as well.  I tried it at release and couldn't get past the bugs, I always meant to try it out again though, hmm.

    Anyway I love that SOE is going to actually support outfit specialization in PS2, ie tank outfits, air cav, etc.

    One of my favorite outfits was Azure Twilight, a Vanu outfit that specialized in tactical assault and holds.  We practiced Galaxy drop assaults and MAX assault/holds.  Usually we'd hit a tower via Gal drop for a zerg respawn point, then MAX assault in through the back door to take down the spawn tubes or the generator and hold them.  Other times we would do gal drops on strategic installations, drop the gen and hold it .. this worked very well on the smaller maps or for important bases like the enemy's only vehicle tech base on a continent.

    Then I joined another outfit that specialized in tanking which fit well with my engineering cert emphasis.  We"d do magrider drive by's and retire to a safe spot to repair.

    I ended up with another outfit that was much more loosely disciplined and played the engineer sapper/support.  I'd usually drive an ams to a chokepoint and set up a minefield, turret field and an orion turret.   Great fun :)

    My point is that we were able to do alot in game without official support, I can't wait to see what can be done in PS2 with it.  What I listed was only a sampling of the various tactical and strategic options the game gave us.

    AT is still around and doing their thing. They have drills every Thursday and practice drops and cave runs and base holds and such. I was in the outfit for a bit, but found it to be more of a 2nd job then fun to be honest. Now I am not saying they are doing it wrong, they are very sucsseful in what they do and run the outfit more like a military unit then any I have seen. What I am saying is that I play games to have fun and enjoy it, if I wanted to get yeslled at by my squad leader or platoon commander I would have stayed married to my first wife longer!

    It's a game, don't take it so seriously. You can play tactically and still have fun without the over bearing military style leadership.

     

    image

  • AluviusAluvius Member Posts: 288

    Originally posted by jleeii

    Originally posted by Aluvius

    Planetside 1 had the best tactical play in any mmo I"ve seen outside of maybe PotBS (which was much more limited) although I guess WW2Online would probably be up there as well.  I tried it at release and couldn't get past the bugs, I always meant to try it out again though, hmm.

    Anyway I love that SOE is going to actually support outfit specialization in PS2, ie tank outfits, air cav, etc.

    One of my favorite outfits was Azure Twilight, a Vanu outfit that specialized in tactical assault and holds.  We practiced Galaxy drop assaults and MAX assault/holds.  Usually we'd hit a tower via Gal drop for a zerg respawn point, then MAX assault in through the back door to take down the spawn tubes or the generator and hold them.  Other times we would do gal drops on strategic installations, drop the gen and hold it .. this worked very well on the smaller maps or for important bases like the enemy's only vehicle tech base on a continent.

    Then I joined another outfit that specialized in tanking which fit well with my engineering cert emphasis.  We"d do magrider drive by's and retire to a safe spot to repair.

    I ended up with another outfit that was much more loosely disciplined and played the engineer sapper/support.  I'd usually drive an ams to a chokepoint and set up a minefield, turret field and an orion turret.   Great fun :)

    My point is that we were able to do alot in game without official support, I can't wait to see what can be done in PS2 with it.  What I listed was only a sampling of the various tactical and strategic options the game gave us.

    AT is still around and doing their thing. They have drills every Thursday and practice drops and cave runs and base holds and such. I was in the outfit for a bit, but found it to be more of a 2nd job then fun to be honest. Now I am not saying they are doing it wrong, they are very sucsseful in what they do and run the outfit more like a military unit then any I have seen. What I am saying is that I play games to have fun and enjoy it, if I wanted to get yeslled at by my squad leader or platoon commander I would have stayed married to my first wife longer!

    It's a game, don't take it so seriously. You can play tactically and still have fun without the over bearing military style leadership.

     

     Yeah I check their website every once in awhile.  I agree with what you're saying which is why I moved around a bit and found outfits that fit my playstyle as it evolved.  The only game that's come close to this was Pirates of the Burning Sea*, which like PS1 had more than its share of problems, but really scratched my rvr mmo itch.  

     

    *I can only hope that Nerf09 didn't ragequit PotBS, too.  :)

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Never played POTBS.  I'm not that much of a Geekston.

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    Originally posted by SioBabble

    Replicating RW military individual tactics is highly dependent on how "real" the virtual world is.  For example. can you get into a gully and have defilade protection from enemy fire?  Will the gully give you LOS protection from without, while allowing you LOS abilities outwards?

    SWG has all these gullies on Corellia and Tattoine that appear to offer you the ability to fire without exposing yourself, but the world engine during the pre CU period wasn't able to translate what you saw on the screen into a reality that affected combat, particularly LOS issues.  The rifleman profession probably came the closest to reality in that if you were in the prone position (three possible positions in the game: prone, kneeling, standing) you had a great deal of advantage over your target in terms of accuracy and visiblity.  Of course, if some melee type managed to find you, they'd have an attack bonus against you as you were much more vulnerable to melee attacks...you'd need to rapidly change your stance to shed that disadvantage.

    If the world engine can support it, and the combat system allows for it (no such luck in WoW...it's highly ritualistic in its approach to combat) you can adapt individual and small unit tactics to the game.  If not...well, find out what the game allows and adapt as best you can.

     The only game I've seen real world tactics work on a continuous basis was the original flashpoint for the PC, based on its realism.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    I find it difficult to describe what I'm trying to describe, all I can come up with is "rich tactical environment".

    A game without a "rich tactical environment" would be like Eve Online.  There is one tactic that's used almost all the time:  Camp the gate. 

    Realism, I hear people using the word realism, have to agree. 

    Realism and Eve Online.

    -A more realistic Eve Online would be the ability to bypass gate, which would also happen in the real world: no military commander would put up with such a chokepoint. 

    -A more realistic Eve Online would be to slow down capital ship rotation speeds considerably and then put a complex hull shield/plate system to where you can pound on one area to hit certain components located in certain areas.  This would "enrich" the tactical options.  As it is now there is one shield that covers everything, armor that covers everything, and they pretty much act the same way.

    There are certain cases where realism would hinder tactics in a gaming environment.

    -The extreme grind time involved with building ships in Eve Online makes PVP far less frequent then it should be, it tempts players to do the most effective tactic to win:  gate camping.  In real life building capital ships does take a long time.

Sign In or Register to comment.