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Crossfire 5770hd or get a 6870?
rebelhero1
Member Posts: 229
Yo, thanks for checking this out in advance.
I just have a few questions regarding Crossfire; 1 is wil I get more performance from two 5770's or a single 6870/5870 and two is will a 650w Antec Earthwatts PSU power up both 5770's if they are the better choice?
Reason I ask is I already have a Sapphire 5770hd and it'd be cheaper (and wouldn't get nearly as hot, the one I have now won't go above 63c OC'd at 950/1375 in benchmarks, let alone games) to buy one more than to buy a more powerful card and not use the 5770 I have now.
Also, one more question, if I have a Sapphire 5770, is it absoutely necessary and/or advised to get the same brand rather than, say, the XFX 5770?
Thanks again. I don't have any experience with Crossfire/SLI.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW 
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Comments
650w is abit weak for xfire. i usually recommend a 750 or better on xfire/SLi
what kind of case do you have? does it have enough airflow for xfire? and is the intake airflow filtered?:D
what CPU are you pairing this with?
whats your budget like?:D
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371044&cm_re=antec_earthwatts_650-_-17-371-044-_-Product
That's my PSU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061&cm_re=gamma-_-11-146-061-_-Product
That's my case, it has wonderful airflow and a crap ton of fans haha (6 case fans, to be exact)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103913&cm_re=phenom_ii_x6-_-19-103-913-_-Product
There's my cpu.
Budget is ~$200.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
It is safest to get the same brand when xfiring, some companies make minor tweaks. 5770's take around 225 watts each, some from the mobo some from the 6pin power cable. 650 is definitely too little since you have 6 fans, dvd/br drive, hard drive, ram, etc... 750is minimum for 5770 crossfire, and for a 6870 you would want 750 minimum for 1 card IMO as it takes 300 watt in use.
As for capability, the 6870 no OC is just under (within 5-10%) xfire 5770s, however it is also cooler than any high end xfire combo, due to the heat these huge cards put out when bridged. And you can always come back and xfire the 6870s a year down the road.
Wait, as far as I know, a 6870 barely requires more power than a 5770. Wasn't that like, the selling point of the 6xxx models compared to the 5xxx? Would my current PSU really be unable to do it? If I remember correctly they recommend at least a 500w and two 6-pins for it. I appreciate the reply btw. And Good point about crossfiring the 6870's later on.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
First off, it is ALWAYS better to get more power supply than you would ever use and a higher quality power supply than you would ever get stock. The thing that usually goes in systems is the power supply and it often takes out other components. Plus you have a MUCH happier system with a 1,000 watt power supply pulling 600 watts than a 750 watt power supply pulling 600 watts (remember that power supply efficiency is in the 80% range for decent supplies -- 85% for some of the best and could be 70% for a standard model (so a junky 1,000 watt power supply might only give you 700 usable watts -- this is why you see some people with really good but lower watt supplies pulling off things that cheapo higher watt ones cant do).
I know I always figure out the most watts I plan to use, add 200 and spend an extra $75.
Looking at your supply it is not as good as I usually get but it is better than I thought it would be. With that 82% supply you probably can run cards that "recommend" 750w systems.
That said I think you can safely run the single higher end card but you will probably burn it out eventually if you try to crossfire your current card even if it does start up the first time(which it might but you would be really PUSHING your poor power supply).
not sure here but i think 1 5990 would prob be worth the price!didnt ati lower the price since they have 6990!
If you arent wedded to ATI, newegg has the GeForce 560 on sale for 149AR. That should do what you are looking for without destroying your power supply while being in your money range.
It is in the same speed range as the ATI card you are looking at -- possibly a bit faster depending on what you are doing, and you also get PHYSX out of it.
At any rate, it is an idea.
I don't think this advice is necessarily true. I don't dispute the "quality" power supply is necessary, but I don't think you need to over-range the wattage by 50% or more. Efficiency of a power supply is largely dependent on the load, and if it's underloaded by a significant margin, you aren't going to get nearly the efficiency. I usually recommend going over by 20-25% of your expected load: CPU is about 150W stock, Video cards vary widely (100-300+W), and another 100W for other system components, add that up, add 25%, that's about the range you should look at. Of course, if your overclocking, plan on a bit more.
Should a power supply be a decent one, a 750W should have no problems at all providing up to 750W all day long for years.
To the OP:
Crossfire/SLI has a lot of "hidden" costs.
You need more power, that means a bigger power supply, more heat produced (which means more noise), and larger electric bills.
You also need a better motherboard. The difference between a motherboard that can run a single video card very well, and the same motherboard that can run SLI/Crossfire well (x8/x8 PCI 2.0 lanes at least, preferrably x16/x16) is easily $50-100+, and that's just for that one extra feature. Sure, a lot of motherboards will "support" SLI/CF, but they do it at x16/x4, or x8/x4, and it isn't going to give you the performance your looking for.
SLI/CF performance is hugely dependent on driver profiles. If there is no profile for the game you are playing, you see 0 increase from the second card. There can also be compatibly issues, such as no acceleration unless your in full screen mode (windowed full screen doesn't count). It can sometimes take weeks or months to get profiles for new games.
For these reasons, I only recommend SLI/CF if you cannot get a single card to cover the performance you are after: which usually means SLI/CF for top-tiered cards only. In the case of a pair of 5770's, you can easily get a single card to cover that performance and then some.
5770's are extremely low power. 108W each. That means, for a system with a pair of them in CF, your still looking at around 500W max.
Read the whole post and OP never mentions which mobo he has or plans to choose. This is very important... read on:
Get a 6850 (only requires one 6 pin plug) and add another 6 months down the road. Don't know how long you've had the 5770, but if it's been longer than 6 months don't bother going dual gpu with it. Upgrade to 68xx and go crossfire within the 6 month window.
I run 2 6850s on a 700W PSU. Also, don't bother doing any type of dual gpu set up unless your mobo has 2 PCI 2.0 X16 lanes.
Based on this, I take it that the 6870 is the way to go? lol
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131647&Tpk=asus%20m4a87td%20evo
Tht's my mobo
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
It's your system, your money, and ultimately what you want to do is paramount. If you just want to play with CF to get a taste for it, a pair of 5770's is a good way to get your feet wet. If your just wanting something that performs well, then it may not be the best choice.
That's my plan, so that's probably what I'll do. A 6870 isn't that much more anyway.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
90% people who used/use sli/xfire, will tell you, this is first and last time they are using it.. as someone who have sli, skip it, unless ur one of those who plays only mmorpgs or play games 2 months after release.. even with new nvidia auto sli profile updates, there is still bunch of games without sli support, i wont mention that for some reason now 90% of released games doesnt have sli/xfire profiles
this been better like year ago. you usually get profile month before game is out.. not to mention if ur not the guywho updates his gpu drivers every 2 weeks or everytime they are out..
to make it short, sli profiles support is terrible, i heard xfire support is even worse.. tho scalling should be better, if you like new games, expect to either play on 20 fps , or wait between week or 2 months till new driver/profile updates. so game is actually using both gpus..
so as sli user : stay away from dual gpu solliutions unless ur enthusiast.. and you aint one.. not with these cards
OP, normally a pair of 5770s is not what I'd recommend in this day and age.
If you already have one, however, there is no better way to get performance for the money than to buy a second. It'll only set you back $120-$130, and then for that money you'll have something considerably faster than a 6800 series card, for less money.
Sure, buying two 6850s/6870s would be faster than two 5770s, as one user said, but only if you have the budget. If we're going to not respect your budget, we might as well suggest you buy two Geforce GTX570s, or two Radeon HD 6970s.
For the situation you're in, there is no way to get more performance for less money than getting a second 5770, and there is nothing else you can get on a $200 budget that will outperform two of them.
Two also won't consume a super lot of power. They have a TDP of 108W, and realistically, I doubt you'll ever draw more than 100W. 200W for your total GPU setup is hardly bad. A single Radeon HD 5870 consumes almost that much, and it's only marginally more power than a 6950 will consume (which is the next step up in performance, and out of your budget regardless).
Honestly, I'm finding it hard to see how you could argue against the dual 5770 route, at least in cases where you already have a first and a motherboard and PSU capable of taking two of them.
Really?
How many games can you specifically cite that don't have Crossfire support at the moment? More to the point, how many games can you specifically cite that don't support Crossfire at the moment, and are intensive enough to warrant using it?
I've run dual 5770s for the past 18 months, and while I may well have come across a game where the scaling was bad, I've never had a game fail to play with high framerates at high settings on my 1920x1200 monitor, so clearly I've never encountered the problem in any game that's intensive enough to matter.
Oh my. There is so much bad advice early in this thread. The advice does get better later in the thread, though.
First, a Radeon HD 5770 has a TDP of 108 W. A Radeon HD 6870 has a TDP of 151 W. That means that that is as much power as the cards are designed to pull. Now, they may occasionally go over that a little, but it's pretty rare for a game to push a video card significantly over an honest TDP. (A dishonest TDP like the "365 W" on the GeForce GTX 590 is a different matter.)
Second, you can CrossFire any two cards based on the same GPU die. It's best to pick two cards based on the same bin (e.g., both 5770s, rather than a 5770 and a 5750), but you can pick different bins and it will work. It will merely set the higher bin to the specs of the lower bin and run that way.
Third, it doesn't matter if the cards are different SKUs or from different brands. What matters is the GPU chip.
Fourth, you've got x16/x4 PCI Express bandwidth on your motherboard. CrossFire will kind of work with that, but it's not how you want to do it. I'd say don't go CrossFire on that motherboard.
You might want to consider waiting a while before upgrading. Your "old" card with a Juniper GPU is still something that makes sense to buy in a modern new computer, as TSMC's 40 nm process is still the latest and greatest used in commercial video cards. That will change, well, as soon as TSMC and/or Global Foundries get their 28 nm process nodes up and running. Die shrinks are what drives Moore's Law.
5770 is only 128 bit wide data path!
But it's 1.2 GHz GDDR5, so it offers considerably more memory bandwidth than a G80-based GeForce 8800 GTS with a 320-bit memory bus.
The memory bus width doesn't matter for its own sake. It's memory bandwidth that matters.
on average all ati are better then nvidia only in specificly nvidia optimised game does ati begin to let nvidia come closer!
here is a good resource that you should bookmark for future reference
http://www.geeks3d.com/20090618/graphics-cards-thermal-design-power-tdp-database/
I agree with your sentiment of getting more power but you are definately alittle mis informed on the actual draw of each card.
I stand firm in my belief of 650w being too weak for xfire/SLi, especially when dealing with a healthy 6 core CPU:D however i doubt you will be hearing the cap's poping from too much power draw.
it's hard to recommend the solution here since the gpu is obviously mismatched with the CPU. I dont like xfire/SLi, but you already have one card and your budget is low... as quizzy mentioned, your board isnt ideal for xfire so I guess you should go with a single card solution.
It depends on what cards you're putting in CrossFire or SLI. Sure, a 650 W power supply would be far too little for a pair of GeForce GTX 580s in SLI. But it would be overkill for a pair of Radeon HD 5770s in CrossFire. Two 5770s will tend to use less power than one GeForce GTX 570 all by itself. Add in a Thuban processor and you've got a system that will likely never pull 350 W from the power supply. If a "650 W" power supply can't handle that, then the problem is that the power supply is junk, not that it's 650 W.
An Antec EarthWatts Green isn't a great power supply. But it is decent enough, and wouldn't be seriously stressed by a pair of Radeon HD 5770s in CrossFire. Power delivery would not be a problem at all for that setup.
I know my belief in this is irrational:D but i do tend to overallocate when it comes to SLi/xfire. the 650w 1 card limit is more of a hard and fast rule then based on rational calculations of actual needs.
aside from that, the ONLY powersupply that has ever actually blown up on me was an antec and i've never had good opinions about their product since that time:D
had two 5770, and two 6870's. i'd say go for the 6870. it's about the same power as 2x5770, and will be much, much better for demanding games with higer 3d settings. any Cf setup of weaker card will always give you lower minimum frames than a stronger card. not to mention 5770's are 128 bit. no brainer.