For the poster who said LA had nothing to do with the NGE, while not having direct experience with LA on the NGE; I was a member of a team that ran Star Wars LARPs. All of our adventures had to be approved by LA for compliance to their canon. I cannot see how it would be any different with SWG, pre or post NGE. That certainly had a lot more players than our LARPs.
For the poster who said LA had nothing to do with the NGE, while not having direct experience with LA on the NGE; I was a member of a team that ran Star Wars LARPs. All of our adventures had to be approved by LA for compliance to their canon. I cannot see how it would be any different with SWG, pre or post NGE. That certainly had a lot more players than our LARPs.
They do that kind of thing. I hear they had a consultant on the set of Night at the Museum 2 to make sure that Vader didn't act out of character. That is just quality control checking. It isn't the same thing as telling a company what features to add to the game. So while I'm sure LA had to sign off their approval on the NGE they didn't design or build the damn thing. That was all SOE. Why on earth LA would approve the addition of endless jedi to a time period when there were only a couple is a bit of a puzzler though.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Oh man you are such a little conspiracy theorist. Let's see you back that up with some proof.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
For the poster who said LA had nothing to do with the NGE, while not having direct experience with LA on the NGE; I was a member of a team that ran Star Wars LARPs. All of our adventures had to be approved by LA for compliance to their canon. I cannot see how it would be any different with SWG, pre or post NGE. That certainly had a lot more players than our LARPs.
They do that kind of thing. I hear they had a consultant on the set of Night at the Museum 2 to make sure that Vader didn't act out of character. That is just quality control checking. It isn't the same thing as telling a company what features to add to the game. So while I'm sure LA had to sign off their approval on the NGE they didn't design or build the damn thing. That was all SOE. Why on earth LA would approve the addition of endless jedi to a time period when there were only a couple is a bit of a puzzler though.
That's what gets me. They signed off on it. Like you say, there aren't more than a half dozen Jedi (in the Expanded Universe, 2 in canon). Someone on the LA side dropped the ball hard on the NGE. SOE just bent us over.
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
"At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need." - Smedley
There are reports that EA will have spent 300 million on making TOR. They will need as many subs as possible, even the ones that would have tried out SWG after trying TOR. They also want the player base that will switch to TOR with SWG going down.
For the poster who said LA had nothing to do with the NGE, while not having direct experience with LA on the NGE; I was a member of a team that ran Star Wars LARPs. All of our adventures had to be approved by LA for compliance to their canon. I cannot see how it would be any different with SWG, pre or post NGE. That certainly had a lot more players than our LARPs.
They do that kind of thing. I hear they had a consultant on the set of Night at the Museum 2 to make sure that Vader didn't act out of character. That is just quality control checking. It isn't the same thing as telling a company what features to add to the game. So while I'm sure LA had to sign off their approval on the NGE they didn't design or build the damn thing. That was all SOE. Why on earth LA would approve the addition of endless jedi to a time period when there were only a couple is a bit of a puzzler though.
That's what gets me. They signed off on it. Like you say, there aren't more than a half dozen Jedi (in the Expanded Universe, 2 in canon). Someone on the LA side dropped the ball hard on the NGE. SOE just bent us over.
Yeah, SOE designed and implimented the NGE, LA had to approve. I just want to know if whoever it was that brought it to LA didn't pull the whole "smoke and mirrors" act that somehow allowed them to keep their license long after the game went to crap.
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
"At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need." - Smedley
TOR will need as many subs as possible, even the ones that would have tried out SWG after trying TOR. They also want the player base that will switch to TOR with SWG going down.
Lets see should i believe Smedley whose creditability isn't all that great on a title he doesn't own, doesn't run, hasn't had any workings in? OOOR the EA analyst that is talking to investors about a game his company owns, that he could have looked at and most assurently has the figures for? Seeing as one Smedley is quoting 2M and the Ea person during a conference call to investors quotes 500K there is really some differences here in figures.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
On the subject of SOE business decisions, I also fail to see how pumping five years of time and money into The Agency then pulling the plug benefitted SOE in any way either. Facts are, they did just that. I also fail to see why creating a sequel to a game they let go totally rotten (Planetside 2) makes sense when they already have other exisitng games they could upgrade with less effort.
It benefitted them because they pumped "five years of time and money" into a game that just didn't cut it. They probabluy did the math, realized that going forward would not only cost more money but that in order for the game to make back that money AND be profitable, they would need far more initial sales and subs than they knew they could get. So it then becomes a tax write off.
As far as creating planetside 2 instead of updating their current games, well, it seems that they want to keep their pipeline somewhat fresh. Everqust Next won't be coming out any time soon, agency is cancelled, so they need to show their stock holders that they have a healthy pipeline and are putting out products.
I wouldn't doubt that they will be updating their current games. EQ 2 has an update coming, so does EQ and their is rumor that Vanguard might get some sort of "bone".
Putting gobs of money into already established and old games isn't necessarily going to get them a great return on that investment. Especially because SOE is more like NC soft in that way; they are in the business of making games as opposed to making one game their business like CCP (up to this point).
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For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
"At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need." - Smedley
There are reports that EA will have spent 300 million on making TOR. They will need as many subs as possible, even the ones that would have tried out SWG after trying TOR. They also want the player base that will switch to TOR with SWG going down.
So you back up an outrageous statement with another outrageous statement from a man with a reputation of being more two faced than Janus. And EA Louses old chestnut of $300 million that he himself recanted? Brilliant.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Hasn't the "$300 million to develop" claim been pretty roundly debunked?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
"At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need." - Smedley
That's it? John Smedley is your source? You're just as well off asking your average jo on the street. Smedley has NO involvement with TOR whatsoever so just what are HIS sources?. Every time I check in on the disfunctionalism that is SWG I have thanked my lucky stars that the guys behind that train wreck have no reach into Bioware's game. Smedley and his band of morons at SOE couldn't make a fun and stable game if Bioware tattoed the blueprints for one on their foreheads.
There are reports that EA will have spent 300 million on making TOR.
Where do you guys come up with these numbers? Again, sources please and not from a disgrunteled employee whose facts have already been debunked.
They will need as many subs as possible, even the ones that would have tried out SWG after trying TOR. They also want the player base that will switch to TOR with SWG going down.
How many subs did SWG have? 10k? That's not even big enough to fill a small town. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people that are going to be playing TOR. There is also a little online game called Star Wars Clone Wars and it is still up and open for business. Your sense of logic is illogical.
I blame LA completely. Why? Because I have seen this before. LA is greedy. Smedley says the game was not profitable. Yet Ultima Online still continues as do other old mmos. The difference - licensing fees. SWG was not profitable because they did not make enough to cover the LA licensing fees and still make a good enough profit.
This is the third time I have seen companies with a Star Wars license lose it. In the paper rpg world West End Games had a Star Wars license for some years and produced some fantastic rpg products. Wizards of the Coast (of D and D fame) then took over and they also lost their license. Yes, sales were down after the years but the key was the licensing fees.
LA is to blame.
Sigh. Will this stop me from buying the SWTOR Collector's Edition? No. Fools never learn.
If Sony had made a better game maybe they'd be able to afford the license.
Afford? how can Sony afford something which is not even for sale? LA doesn't want to renew the license, its that simple.
Proof please. Any reputable link to a source proving that LA said no to renewing the liscence will do. The way I read it SOE felt it was not worth the cost of renewing because of how bad SWG was fairing AND since SWTOR was coming out, they figured they would loose a good portion of there current customers.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Hasn't the "$300 million to develop" claim been pretty roundly debunked?
Yes it has. Even the clown that originally put out that claim later admitted he had no way of knowing how much BioWare was spending on SWTOR. In my opinion, that means that ANYONE who quotes that number is not credible in the slightest.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I fail to see how this deal benefits SOE in any shape or form, they gain nothing. If anything they lose something that may have swayed some tendancy to sign up for everything.
I can't imagine the license fee would be that much to offset any profitability, I really can't.
SWG has overhead through the license fee that most other SOE mmos do not have and SOE isn't exactly swimming in money right now.
SWG generates less subscription revenue per players as SOE has to split the fee with Lucas Arts
Therefor it would take more subscribers to support the same number of developers for SWG than other SOE games
SOE has been laying off employees for three years straight. SWG devs return less for every hour invested in SWG than other SOE mmos that don't have a third party IP to pay.
SWG population was going to take a significant hit when SWTOR released. Players can say what they want, but they are star wars fans and many would try it. Even a decline in playtime of 50% would have a cascading effect on the SWG servers making them appear even less populated. Blah blah, SWTOR was going to have a big impact on SWG.
Most importantly, SWG is a huge negative stain on the reputation of SOE. It is going to be very very difficult for SOE to rebuild their reputation and closing SWG is one step in the right direction. Now they can sob and cry about how they loved the game and made some mistakes they wish they could take back. Again blah blah, closing SWG is ending a long ugly chapter in the history of SOE. Now they can make like they are taking steps forward or whatever snake oil Smed wants to sell.
The benefits might not be crstyal clear at a glance, but it is a smart move by SOE. SWG was dying and likely to implode when SWTOR releases. It isn't like SWG is some big profit center or a huge attraction for people to sign up to station pass.
us from conspiracy theorists. West End Games losing the SW license had nothing to do with LA. Nor did Wizards of the Coast usurp them. West End bought up a bunch of other IP licenses to make new games and none of those sold worth a crap. Their games like Torg also fell flat. Even the new stuff they released for their starting title game, Paranoia stunk on ice. West End went bankrupt because they kept throwing money into poorly made products that did not get a decent fan following/customer base. Just like SOE and SWG. If the cost of the SW license, arguably the one of the best known sci fi franchises in the world, makes SWG not profitable, that isn't the fault of LA. It is the fault of SOE who failed financially not with just one version of the game but with two. In the hands of a more competent company (management wise) SWG would most likely have been a break away success.
I too agree that LA are some arrogant dickweeds at the best of times, but lets lay the blame where it belongs.
Good God...I could not agree more with every word you've typed. Bravo Tardcore!!!!
SWG's failures can be laid squarely at the feet of SOE, not LA. In fact, all I've ever heard is how obliging and easy LA is for them to work with. Heck, they let SOE destroy any appeal of Ewoks by adding in pink flying Ewoks with giant purple hearts, not to even mention the whole "zombie" thing they added.
Until I see something stating otherwise, I will assume what SOE says to be true, that this was a MUTUAL decision.
SWG has overhead through the license fee that most other SOE mmos do not have and SOE isn't exactly swimming in money right now.
SWG generates less subscription revenue per players as SOE has to split the fee with Lucas Arts
Therefor it would take more subscribers to support the same number of developers for SWG than other SOE games
SOE has been laying off employees for three years straight. SWG devs return less for every hour invested in SWG than other SOE mmos that don't have a third party IP to pay.
SWG population was going to take a significant hit when SWTOR released. Players can say what they want, but they are star wars fans and many would try it. Even a decline in playtime of 50% would have a cascading effect on the SWG servers making them appear even less populated. Blah blah, SWTOR was going to have a big impact on SWG.
Most importantly, SWG is a huge negative stain on the reputation of SOE. It is going to be very very difficult for SOE to rebuild their reputation and closing SWG is one step in the right direction. Now they can sob and cry about how they loved the game and made some mistakes they wish they could take back. Again blah blah, closing SWG is ending a long ugly chapter in the history of SOE. Now they can make like they are taking steps forward or whatever snake oil Smed wants to sell.
The benefits might not be crstyal clear at a glance, but it is a smart move by SOE. SWG was dying and likely to implode when SWTOR releases. It isn't like SWG is some big profit center or a huge attraction for people to sign up to station pass.
They still dedicated man hours to SWG, which says to me there was reason to, as it was doing well enough to require as much. I couldn't say how SWG has faired in the last five years as I haven't been playing it, though when I did come back for free playtime, there have always been new additions since the last time I played and people. How much work does SOE put into VG as an example?
I don't disagree that SWG was probably in for dark times, I've acknowledged as much in previous posts in this thread, as I look at TOR as the primary factor in all of this.
Still I don't think it was SOE's plan for things to go down in such a way. It also seems the development team had a few nice plans in place for SWG's future. New GCW content, Atmospheric flight etc...
We can all sit on the outside and say SWG was dying, dead or whatever popular forum sentiment is, that doesn't make it so. I just think as typical SOE gets the blame regardless of facts or anything else, simply because they're SOE.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
us from conspiracy theorists. West End Games losing the SW license had nothing to do with LA. Nor did Wizards of the Coast usurp them. West End bought up a bunch of other IP licenses to make new games and none of those sold worth a crap. Their games like Torg also fell flat. Even the new stuff they released for their starting title game, Paranoia stunk on ice. West End went bankrupt because they kept throwing money into poorly made products that did not get a decent fan following/customer base. Just like SOE and SWG. If the cost of the SW license, arguably the one of the best known sci fi franchises in the world, makes SWG not profitable, that isn't the fault of LA. It is the fault of SOE who failed financially not with just one version of the game but with two. In the hands of a more competent company (management wise) SWG would most likely have been a break away success.
I too agree that LA are some arrogant dickweeds at the best of times, but lets lay the blame where it belongs.
Good God...I could not agree more with every word you've typed. Bravo Tardcore!!!!
SWG's failures can be laid squarely at the feet of SOE, not LA. In fact, all I've ever heard is how obliging and easy LA is for them to work with. Heck, they let SOE destroy any appeal of Ewoks by adding in pink flying Ewoks with giant purple hearts, not to even mention the whole "zombie" thing they added.
Until I see something stating otherwise, I will assume what SOE says to be true, that this was a MUTUAL decision.
You lost me at "appeal of Ewoks". They were the Jar Jar's of my generation and had no appeal.
You lost me at "appeal of Ewoks". They were the Jar Jar's of my generation and had no appeal.
I was 7 when ROTJ released I loved all aspects of that movie even Ewoks I even liked the droids and ewok cartoons, I was a kid, kids like things like that. I also liked Snorks and Smurfs. I'm sure if I was a kid I'd have loved Jar Jar to.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For some reason i think smed may be right. he must have planned on going with SWG he had GCW2 coming and if he really thought LA wont renew he would have not made that plan before the next contract renew. I'm getting from this intervew that LA did it because of TOR. Bet ya all the credits in the world he wasn't allowed to make the game better after the NGE since LA knew that BW had started on TOR. it makes sense to let SWG fail so the cash cow that will be TOR is what they always wanted.
Wow all these years I blamed smed and it was Chicken George.
[1] They still dedicated man hours to SWG, which says to me there was reason to, as it was doing well enough to require as much. I couldn't say how SWG has faired in the last five years as I haven't been playing it, though when I did come back for free playtime, there have always been new additions since the last time I played and people. How much work does SOE put into VG as an example?
I don't disagree that SWG was probably in for dark times, I've acknowledged as much in previous posts in this thread, as I look at TOR as the primary factor in all of this.
Still I don't think it was SOE's plan for things to go down in such a way. It also seems the development team had a few nice plans in place for SWG's future. New GCW content, Atmospheric flight etc...
[2] We can all sit on the outside and say SWG was dying, dead or whatever popular forum sentiment is, that doesn't make it so. I just think as typical SOE gets the blame regardless of facts or anything else, simply because they're SOE.
[1]
I was just giving you some reasons why closing SWG would be a benefit to SOE. SOE is obviously in financial trouble with all the closures and layoffs. They have X games that require Y developers. When they have to make decisions of what to cut and what to support I'm pretty sure SWG came up pretty low on the list due to overhead, split revenue and the overall effect it has on their reputation.
[2]
Well Smedly did mention that the games performance was one of the reasons they decided to close it down. Also he was talking about the possibility of sunsetting the game a few years back when SWTOR was announced. That isn't something a CEO talks about if a game has a healthy and strong userbase.
Almost everything from the words of the CEO, to server closures to players begging for additional moves/closures supports the low population. Short of SOE giving exact numbers I think it is pretty clear the game was in bad shape.
Just to be clear, I don't think all the blame falls on SOE. I think Lucas Arts had a benefit from SWG closing down and that is why it wa a mutual agreement between the two companies. After 8 years I think they are both adult enough to admit that SWG is beyond saving.
"EverQuest only been out for just over a year, so we didn't know about the shelf life of these things."
That's about right for Smed, he didn't think look at UO which was a pretty strong indicator that MMO's have a longer than 5 year shelf life, even though UO had been going strong since 1997 and showed no sign of slowing down. I bet the added time was the first big game change up date and the second the NGE, which proves even more how much Lucas were behind the NGE change, more time only if you change it to play like that wow game.
For some reason i think smed may be right. he must have planned on going with SWG he had GCW2 coming and if he really thought LA wont renew he would have not made that plan before the next contract renew. I'm getting from this intervew that LA did it because of TOR. Bet ya all the credits in the world he wasn't allowed to make the game better after the NGE since LA knew that BW had started on TOR. it makes sense to let SWG fail so the cash cow that will be TOR is what they always wanted.
Wow all these years I blamed smed and it was Chicken George.
LOL. One of my last posts on the Official Forums before my sub ran out in Dec'05 was something like "We've been screaming about the Trade Federation, but it was the Chancellor himself behind it the whole time."
As I recall, the rumor mill put the start of TOR planning at Jan'06, if not earlier. A lot of developers left SWG after NGE, and headed to BioWare. So it seems pretty obvious that LA wrote off SWG within a month after NGE launched, crashed, and failed to rise again. I have no proof and no one in-the-know is likely to confirm the suspicions, but I agree that LA is probably the reason that SWG never significantly improved after that, or opened a classic server like so many players wished.
Comments
For the poster who said LA had nothing to do with the NGE, while not having direct experience with LA on the NGE; I was a member of a team that ran Star Wars LARPs. All of our adventures had to be approved by LA for compliance to their canon. I cannot see how it would be any different with SWG, pre or post NGE. That certainly had a lot more players than our LARPs.
Aurora, 4x Gaming
They do that kind of thing. I hear they had a consultant on the set of Night at the Museum 2 to make sure that Vader didn't act out of character. That is just quality control checking. It isn't the same thing as telling a company what features to add to the game. So while I'm sure LA had to sign off their approval on the NGE they didn't design or build the damn thing. That was all SOE. Why on earth LA would approve the addition of endless jedi to a time period when there were only a couple is a bit of a puzzler though.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
EA doesn't want SWG running. So EA had it put in their contract with LA that they (LA) would have SOE shut down SWG...
Where's the proof? I really doubt SWG even registered on Bioware's radar...lol
Oh man you are such a little conspiracy theorist. Let's see you back that up with some proof.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
That's what gets me. They signed off on it. Like you say, there aren't more than a half dozen Jedi (in the Expanded Universe, 2 in canon). Someone on the LA side dropped the ball hard on the NGE. SOE just bent us over.
Aurora, 4x Gaming
"At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need." - Smedley
There are reports that EA will have spent 300 million on making TOR. They will need as many subs as possible, even the ones that would have tried out SWG after trying TOR. They also want the player base that will switch to TOR with SWG going down.
It also has to be asked... Who believes anything Smedley says anyway?
"The CU is here to stay" - John Smedley
Yeah, SOE designed and implimented the NGE, LA had to approve. I just want to know if whoever it was that brought it to LA didn't pull the whole "smoke and mirrors" act that somehow allowed them to keep their license long after the game went to crap.
Lets see should i believe Smedley whose creditability isn't all that great on a title he doesn't own, doesn't run, hasn't had any workings in? OOOR the EA analyst that is talking to investors about a game his company owns, that he could have looked at and most assurently has the figures for? Seeing as one Smedley is quoting 2M and the Ea person during a conference call to investors quotes 500K there is really some differences here in figures.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
It benefitted them because they pumped "five years of time and money" into a game that just didn't cut it. They probabluy did the math, realized that going forward would not only cost more money but that in order for the game to make back that money AND be profitable, they would need far more initial sales and subs than they knew they could get. So it then becomes a tax write off.
As far as creating planetside 2 instead of updating their current games, well, it seems that they want to keep their pipeline somewhat fresh. Everqust Next won't be coming out any time soon, agency is cancelled, so they need to show their stock holders that they have a healthy pipeline and are putting out products.
I wouldn't doubt that they will be updating their current games. EQ 2 has an update coming, so does EQ and their is rumor that Vanguard might get some sort of "bone".
Putting gobs of money into already established and old games isn't necessarily going to get them a great return on that investment. Especially because SOE is more like NC soft in that way; they are in the business of making games as opposed to making one game their business like CCP (up to this point).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So you back up an outrageous statement with another outrageous statement from a man with a reputation of being more two faced than Janus. And EA Louses old chestnut of $300 million that he himself recanted? Brilliant.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Hasn't the "$300 million to develop" claim been pretty roundly debunked?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Proof please. Any reputable link to a source proving that LA said no to renewing the liscence will do. The way I read it SOE felt it was not worth the cost of renewing because of how bad SWG was fairing AND since SWTOR was coming out, they figured they would loose a good portion of there current customers.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Yes it has. Even the clown that originally put out that claim later admitted he had no way of knowing how much BioWare was spending on SWTOR. In my opinion, that means that ANYONE who quotes that number is not credible in the slightest.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
SWG has overhead through the license fee that most other SOE mmos do not have and SOE isn't exactly swimming in money right now.
SWG generates less subscription revenue per players as SOE has to split the fee with Lucas Arts
Therefor it would take more subscribers to support the same number of developers for SWG than other SOE games
SOE has been laying off employees for three years straight. SWG devs return less for every hour invested in SWG than other SOE mmos that don't have a third party IP to pay.
SWG population was going to take a significant hit when SWTOR released. Players can say what they want, but they are star wars fans and many would try it. Even a decline in playtime of 50% would have a cascading effect on the SWG servers making them appear even less populated. Blah blah, SWTOR was going to have a big impact on SWG.
Most importantly, SWG is a huge negative stain on the reputation of SOE. It is going to be very very difficult for SOE to rebuild their reputation and closing SWG is one step in the right direction. Now they can sob and cry about how they loved the game and made some mistakes they wish they could take back. Again blah blah, closing SWG is ending a long ugly chapter in the history of SOE. Now they can make like they are taking steps forward or whatever snake oil Smed wants to sell.
The benefits might not be crstyal clear at a glance, but it is a smart move by SOE. SWG was dying and likely to implode when SWTOR releases. It isn't like SWG is some big profit center or a huge attraction for people to sign up to station pass.
Good God...I could not agree more with every word you've typed. Bravo Tardcore!!!!
SWG's failures can be laid squarely at the feet of SOE, not LA. In fact, all I've ever heard is how obliging and easy LA is for them to work with. Heck, they let SOE destroy any appeal of Ewoks by adding in pink flying Ewoks with giant purple hearts, not to even mention the whole "zombie" thing they added.
Until I see something stating otherwise, I will assume what SOE says to be true, that this was a MUTUAL decision.
They still dedicated man hours to SWG, which says to me there was reason to, as it was doing well enough to require as much. I couldn't say how SWG has faired in the last five years as I haven't been playing it, though when I did come back for free playtime, there have always been new additions since the last time I played and people. How much work does SOE put into VG as an example?
I don't disagree that SWG was probably in for dark times, I've acknowledged as much in previous posts in this thread, as I look at TOR as the primary factor in all of this.
Still I don't think it was SOE's plan for things to go down in such a way. It also seems the development team had a few nice plans in place for SWG's future. New GCW content, Atmospheric flight etc...
We can all sit on the outside and say SWG was dying, dead or whatever popular forum sentiment is, that doesn't make it so. I just think as typical SOE gets the blame regardless of facts or anything else, simply because they're SOE.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You lost me at "appeal of Ewoks". They were the Jar Jar's of my generation and had no appeal.
I was 7 when ROTJ released I loved all aspects of that movie even Ewoks I even liked the droids and ewok cartoons, I was a kid, kids like things like that. I also liked Snorks and Smurfs. I'm sure if I was a kid I'd have loved Jar Jar to.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For some reason i think smed may be right. he must have planned on going with SWG he had GCW2 coming and if he really thought LA wont renew he would have not made that plan before the next contract renew. I'm getting from this intervew that LA did it because of TOR. Bet ya all the credits in the world he wasn't allowed to make the game better after the NGE since LA knew that BW had started on TOR. it makes sense to let SWG fail so the cash cow that will be TOR is what they always wanted.
Wow all these years I blamed smed and it was Chicken George.
[1]
I was just giving you some reasons why closing SWG would be a benefit to SOE. SOE is obviously in financial trouble with all the closures and layoffs. They have X games that require Y developers. When they have to make decisions of what to cut and what to support I'm pretty sure SWG came up pretty low on the list due to overhead, split revenue and the overall effect it has on their reputation.
[2]
Well Smedly did mention that the games performance was one of the reasons they decided to close it down. Also he was talking about the possibility of sunsetting the game a few years back when SWTOR was announced. That isn't something a CEO talks about if a game has a healthy and strong userbase.
Almost everything from the words of the CEO, to server closures to players begging for additional moves/closures supports the low population. Short of SOE giving exact numbers I think it is pretty clear the game was in bad shape.
Just to be clear, I don't think all the blame falls on SOE. I think Lucas Arts had a benefit from SWG closing down and that is why it wa a mutual agreement between the two companies. After 8 years I think they are both adult enough to admit that SWG is beyond saving.
"EverQuest only been out for just over a year, so we didn't know about the shelf life of these things."
That's about right for Smed, he didn't think look at UO which was a pretty strong indicator that MMO's have a longer than 5 year shelf life, even though UO had been going strong since 1997 and showed no sign of slowing down. I bet the added time was the first big game change up date and the second the NGE, which proves even more how much Lucas were behind the NGE change, more time only if you change it to play like that wow game.
LOL. One of my last posts on the Official Forums before my sub ran out in Dec'05 was something like "We've been screaming about the Trade Federation, but it was the Chancellor himself behind it the whole time."
As I recall, the rumor mill put the start of TOR planning at Jan'06, if not earlier. A lot of developers left SWG after NGE, and headed to BioWare. So it seems pretty obvious that LA wrote off SWG within a month after NGE launched, crashed, and failed to rise again. I have no proof and no one in-the-know is likely to confirm the suspicions, but I agree that LA is probably the reason that SWG never significantly improved after that, or opened a classic server like so many players wished.