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Supreme Court Establishes First Amendment Protection of Video Games

gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

Now 100% bullet-proof fundamental constitutional protection for video games, by 7-2 Supreme Court vote.

This is GREAT news for everybody that likes video games...

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35459/Supreme_Court_Decision_Video_Games_Qualify_For_First_Amendment_Protection.php

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

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Comments

  • jado818jado818 Member Posts: 356

    if only they would view other sources of media the same way.

     

    I wonder how much money we waste enforcing laws like this when parents should just monitor their kids and stores should have some common sense if they want to be viewed as "family friendly"

     

    for example, I think cities and towns are perfectly capable of regulating themselves... porn shop likes to sell to kids.. city revokes its business license and makes them move out of the city ^^

    no need for massive public bureaus on decency in video games or movies or w/e.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Hurray!

    "The Court also said that "Psychological studies purporting to show a connection between exposureto violent video games and harmful effects on children do not prove that such exposure causes minors to act aggressively. Any demonstrated effects are both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media."

    Great precedent this. Was getting pretty tiresome hearing that cliche time and time again after kids doing something very stupid. "Blame the medium which we didn't grew up with!" It used to be exactly the same with cartoons, music, movies, etc.

    Other countries and EU take notice.

     

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin Member Posts: 3,033

    It is a nice win.  Sad that entertainment rights had to result in such a waste of money, though.  But probably for the betterment of keeping future as$hats off the business' backs.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by jado818

    if only they would view other sources of media the same way.

     

    I wonder how much money we waste enforcing laws like this when parents should just monitor their kids and stores should have some common sense if they want to be viewed as "family friendly"

     

    for example, I think cities and towns are perfectly capable of regulating themselves... porn shop likes to sell to kids.. city revokes its business license and makes them move out of the city ^^

    no need for massive public bureaus on decency in video games or movies or w/e.

     I agree.  If you buy your kids "God of War" you should seriously expect it to be violent.  It's also rated as such by the ESRB.

    Maybe the parents are worried about kids playing the violent games over friends houses, but this is really no different than them watching R rated movies at friends houses.  You basically can't protect your children from the world forever...

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • astoriaastoria Member UncommonPosts: 1,677

    Here is the direct link to the opinion if anyone wants to read it.

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1448.pdf

    "Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga

  • AmanaAmana Moderator UncommonPosts: 3,912

    Discuss the good news guys, but remember to not stray too far into political discussion or the thread may have to be moved. 

    /friendly mod reminder

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,054

    Not trying to hijack this thread, but Dark Pony, I LOVE your sig! No matter how bad my day is, when I see it, I laugh. Thanks.

    Back to the thread now :)

    Great decision by the Court! Kids will do what kids do. Video games (and other media) are not the cause. I think in more cases than not, videos games are a release of frustrations, that have no consequences in the real world. Just my opinion there :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by jado818

    if only they would view other sources of media the same way.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_Advisory

    well said - but this is good news anyhow

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495

    I"m gonna make a game taht is so violent, even most adults that play it will throw up, and then I'm gonna sell it to kids!

    Whooohooo!

    image

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Not trying to hijack this thread, but Dark Pony, I LOVE your sig! No matter how bad my day is, when I see it, I laugh. Thanks.

    Back to the thread now :)

    Great decision by the Court! Kids will do what kids do. Video games (and other media) are not the cause. I think in more cases than not, videos games are a release of frustrations, that have no consequences in the real world. Just my opinion there :)

    *insert blushing pony here*

    Thanks :)

    Very good news indeed.

  • MaelkorMaelkor Member UncommonPosts: 459

    The way I read it, its not 100% bullet proof protection. The court merely said California was unable to prove harm to children by allowing them to play violent games. As such they can not restrict the sale of violent games due to freedom of speech rights etc.

    If California could prove harm to children then it would still be possible to create a law restricting the sale of such games.

    In addition this only pertains to violent video games. Pornographic games could still be restricted for instance.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Maelkor

    The way I read it, its not 100% bullet proof protection. The court merely said California was unable to prove harm to children by allowing them to play violent games. As such they can not restrict the sale of violent games due to freedom of speech rights etc.

    If California could prove harm to children then it would still be possible to create a law restricting the sale of such games.

    In addition this only pertains to violent video games. Pornographic games could still be restricted for instance.

    If you read the majority opinion written by Scalia (signed by 5 justices) it is bullet proof.  Puts video games on the exact same footing as books, comic books, movies, etc. regarding free speech.  Basically they said if you ban violent videogames you need to ban Lord of the Flies, Grims Fairy Tales, Homer's Odyssey, action comic books, etc.  and all these were already ruled by the Supreme Court in the past as unconstitutional bans.  And that the only historical precident for banning free speech to children was obscenity/pornography and inciting mob violence, etc.  Simulated violence was in no way a reason to ban free speech.  In fact this opinion mocked the historical attempts at banning other violent media in the past for the same reasons.  Crime novels in the 1800s specifically cited as once being blamed for juvinille delinquency.  They even specifically mocked the studies used as evidence for the ban, because they showed Bugs Bunny caused the same emotional effect in kids that violent video games do.  LOL.

    There was a slightly differing opinion written by 2 (Roberts and Alito) that still thought the law unconstitutional as is but left it open for a different version of the law if it was more targetted.  If their opinion was the majority it wouldn't be bulletproof, but this was not the majority opinion, the above was.

    There were also 2 that said it was consitutional as is.  Clarence Thomsas basically said kids have absolutely no right to free speech or hearing free speech.  LOL. 

    But since a majority (5 justices) said no way are videogames under any circumstance different than books they cannot be restricted in any way by law other than obscenity and inciting mob violence (which books/etc are also subject to).  Depcitions of violence have never been and never will be restricted based on 1st ammendment free speech.

    You can agree/disagree, but they were very clear about this.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,246

    As a Californian... way to stick it to the eye of the People's Republic of Kalifornia!

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,246

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

    Me, I don't mind it.  Watched alot of violent movies, some nasty horror / gorefests, etc. as a kid.  My Dad didn't mind if I watched those movies with him when I was young as he brought those VHS tapes home for rent (he was fond of action, war, horror, comedic movies, but especially action).  Came out just fine.

    Now, if you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, then that's fine and you hash that with your family.  But don't come with the "Kalifornia People's Committee For Proper Thought" to tell me what's appropriate in my house, my family.  If you think your kids are that weakminded that they'll turn out corrupt by viewing such things, then again... that's up to you.

    I police my household and set the rules (you know, parenting).  You police yours.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273


    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Hurray!
    "The Court also said that "Psychological studies purporting to show a connection between exposureto violent video games and harmful effects on children do not prove that such exposure causes minors to act aggressively. Any demonstrated effects are both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media."
    Great precedent this. Was getting pretty tiresome hearing that cliche time and time again after kids doing something very stupid. "Blame the medium which we didn't grew up with!" It used to be exactly the same with cartoons, music, movies, etc.
    Other countries and EU take notice.
     

    The funny thing is that I know someone who did a masters thesis regarding this very issue in relation to film and television. His research concluded there is *no* relation to changes in violent behavior and watching such media. He even discovered that as early as two years of age that a person can distinguish between fact and fiction. So, I'm still confused as to why this is a topic for debate when the sciences have already refuted this nonsense almost two decades ago (my friend's thesis wasn't the only one to make similar conclusions, apparently).
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484

    Originally posted by ladyattis

     




    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Hurray!

    "The Court also said that "Psychological studies purporting to show a connection between exposureto violent video games and harmful effects on children do not prove that such exposure causes minors to act aggressively. Any demonstrated effects are both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media."

    Great precedent this. Was getting pretty tiresome hearing that cliche time and time again after kids doing something very stupid. "Blame the medium which we didn't grew up with!" It used to be exactly the same with cartoons, music, movies, etc.

    Other countries and EU take notice.

     





    The funny thing is that I know someone who did a masters thesis regarding this very issue in relation to film and television. His research concluded there is *no* relation to changes in violent behavior and watching such media. He even discovered that as early as two years of age that a person can distinguish between fact and fiction. So, I'm still confused as to why this is a topic for debate when the sciences have already refuted this nonsense almost two decades ago (my friend's thesis wasn't the only one to make similar conclusions, apparently).

     

     Politicians don't give a damn about facts. They care about getting re-elected and forcing their wack-a-loon ideas on other people. In between they raise money and try to look busy.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Warmaker

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

    Me, I don't mind it.  Watched alot of violent movies, some nasty horror / gorefests, etc. as a kid.  My Dad didn't mind if I watched those movies with him when I was young as he brought those VHS tapes home for rent (he was fond of action, war, horror, comedic movies, but especially action).  Came out just fine.

    Now, if you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, then that's fine and you hash that with your family.  But don't come with the "Kalifornia People's Committee For Proper Thought" to tell me what's appropriate in my house, my family.  If you think your kids are that weakminded that they'll turn out corrupt by viewing such things, then again... that's up to you.

    I police my household and set the rules (you know, parenting).  You police yours.

    You didn't come out just fine, and some of this crap isn't even appropriate for adults; it should be outright banned.

  • PainlezzPainlezz Member UncommonPosts: 646

    How can you possibly expect anyone to take anything you say seriously?  You flat out attacked another person you've never met by stating an opinion about something you have no basis to make.

    You then make a generalized statement of yet another opinion.  You have no right, no ability, and in all honesty, should have no reason to want to inflict your views on others. 

    It's people with views and opinions like yours that are driving our country into the dirt.  America is no longer "free" and it's only getting worse.  Parents need to take responsability for their actions and their children NOT the government, and NOT you and NOT anyone else.

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Warmaker

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

    Me, I don't mind it.  Watched alot of violent movies, some nasty horror / gorefests, etc. as a kid.  My Dad didn't mind if I watched those movies with him when I was young as he brought those VHS tapes home for rent (he was fond of action, war, horror, comedic movies, but especially action).  Came out just fine.

    Now, if you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, then that's fine and you hash that with your family.  But don't come with the "Kalifornia People's Committee For Proper Thought" to tell me what's appropriate in my house, my family.  If you think your kids are that weakminded that they'll turn out corrupt by viewing such things, then again... that's up to you.

    I police my household and set the rules (you know, parenting).  You police yours.

    You didn't come out just fine, and some of this crap isn't even appropriate for adults; it should be outright banned.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Originally posted by Painlezz

    How can you possibly expect anyone to take anything you say seriously?  You flat out attacked another person you've never met by stating an opinion about something you have no basis to make.

    You then make a generalized statement of yet another opinion.  You have no right, no ability, and in all honesty, should have no reason to want to inflict your views on others. 

    It's people with views and opinions like yours that are driving our country into the dirt.  America is no longer "free" and it's only getting worse.  Parents need to take responsability for their actions and their children NOT the government, and NOT you and NOT anyone else.

    Originally posted by Nerf09


    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Originally posted by Nerf09

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

    Me, I don't mind it.  Watched alot of violent movies, some nasty horror / gorefests, etc. as a kid.  My Dad didn't mind if I watched those movies with him when I was young as he brought those VHS tapes home for rent (he was fond of action, war, horror, comedic movies, but especially action).  Came out just fine.

    Now, if you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, then that's fine and you hash that with your family.  But don't come with the "Kalifornia People's Committee For Proper Thought" to tell me what's appropriate in my house, my family.  If you think your kids are that weakminded that they'll turn out corrupt by viewing such things, then again... that's up to you.

    I police my household and set the rules (you know, parenting).  You police yours.

    You didn't come out just fine, and some of this crap isn't even appropriate for adults; it should be outright banned.

    Parents need to take responsiblity, exactly what this law would accomplish.  Parents would have to buy the game then hand it to their kids if they want to, instead of this system we have now which is anarchy.

     

    if you enjoy motral combat or movies like Saw you need to be locked up in a mental institution.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,589

    Societies by and large have always enjoyed and been fascinated by violence.  Every major culture in history has had some fascination with violence.

    Venge

    edit - movies and now video games are just the ways our culture is expressing it .

    2nd edit - didn't the ruling state that the current game ratings accomplish the same purpose?  And if a stores sells a mature or rated 18 game to someone underage can't they face consequences?  I'm pretty sure they can.  Also correct me if I'm wrong on this, didn't the ruling basically just say you can't ban it?

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Societies by and large have always enjoyed and been fascinated by violence.  Every major culture in history has had some fascination with violence.

    Venge

    edit - movies and now video games are just the ways our culture is expressing it .

     Better than a colloseum I say :).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,180

    The authority for the FCC to censor has been diminished and continues to be diminished every decade since it was given such an authority by the Supreme court 60 years ago.  Soon they will actually have to do what they were designed to do and manage the broadcasted RF Spectrum.  The states were never given similair authority as it clearly violates the 1st ammendment.

    What gives the FCC authority to censor doesn't have anything to do with a law.  Its private agreements with broadcasters to use the RF spectrum.  This is why the FCC has been struck down repeatedly from invoking Net Nuetrality.  The Net is not broadcast, its all done by wires where the companies do not need to reserve RF frequencies.  Cable TV on the other hand is first recieved by broadcast from viacom or the like then it goes into wires.  Viacom has made agreements with the FCC facing penalty to censor for access to its ability to broadcast.

    The ESRB is also voluntary.  For instance if a game publisher produces a game solely for the PC, they will not have to get an ESRB rating.  Many do so they can get the store space from brick and mortar or digital distribution sources.  They also do it to increase consumer confidence in their products.

  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317

    I attacked those people because of the stuff I watched on TV, not the video games I've played.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • MortisRexMortisRex Member UncommonPosts: 350

    Originally posted by Nerf09

    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Originally posted by Nerf09

    So you think this is appropriate for children?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCtwA-Me08

    Me, I don't mind it.  Watched alot of violent movies, some nasty horror / gorefests, etc. as a kid.  My Dad didn't mind if I watched those movies with him when I was young as he brought those VHS tapes home for rent (he was fond of action, war, horror, comedic movies, but especially action).  Came out just fine.

    Now, if you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, then that's fine and you hash that with your family.  But don't come with the "Kalifornia People's Committee For Proper Thought" to tell me what's appropriate in my house, my family.  If you think your kids are that weakminded that they'll turn out corrupt by viewing such things, then again... that's up to you.

    I police my household and set the rules (you know, parenting).  You police yours.

    You didn't come out just fine, and some of this crap isn't even appropriate for adults; it should be outright banned.

     What do you know exactly that everyone else doesn't about Warmaker? I mean seriously, do you think you're helping your cause by making personal and unwarranted personal attacks on a guy because you have a difference of opinion. If anything, he appears to be respectful and tolerant and you appear to be hateful and narrow-minded. I think I'd prefer his upbringing to yours.

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