I doubt SWTOR will be closed just because LA wants to attract players to a new Star Wars mmo, if the game has a good amount of subscribers. Despite the future some seers have seen, with SWTOR failing, it may well keep a population between 500k-1mil. If it were at those numbers 6 years from now, I doubt the game would be tossed away. Not only that but how many players of SWTOR would really even go to this supposed new mmo? Current SWG players, at least what I've seen on forums, outright despise SWTOR, find any flaws they can, real or imagined, so why wouldn't the same be true in a case of a new SW mmo vs SWTOR?
SWG was never any threat to TOR. There is no reason for Lucas Arts to shut down SWG for any fear of what it might do to TOR. It is simply a nonfactor for TOR.
SWG was shut down, because both SOE and Lucas Arts recognized it was a dead game and jointly decided to shut the game down. There really is no reason for either company to make plans to continue on with the game for years to come. A few thousand subscribers isn't worth holding the license for this MMO being tied up in a game that has failed and is little more than an embarrassment to either company.
It is a shame that SWG will close down but to be honest, it was never that great, in my opinion. I think many people put on the rose tinted glasses and look back fondly on it as something far more and far better than it actually was.
I have played all of the Bioware games to be released and just that fact that Bioware is doing it in a simiar fashion to KOTOR meets ME2, meets MMO makes this a winner for me. I doubt it will go the way of SWG.
That being said, I think we are also seeing the fact that MOST MMOs will have a shelf life with some being longer than others. WOW is really the exception to the rule and came about from a perfect storm and great timing. I doubt, as far as subs and the like there will ever be another game like it as far as level of success is concerned. That doe not make other game a failure though and SWTOR should be a success.
A LOT of non-mmo players will pick this game up as the first experience in an MMO so some of the things that feel a little tired to the MMO elite will be fresh to them, even if they had tried WOW or some other MMO once.
Just putting my common sense hat on I don't see anything that Lucas Arts, EA, or Bioware are doing with this game that is setting it up to fail or go the way of the DoDo (AKA SWG). SWG had issues from the start that had nothing to do with these companies and everything to do with the game itself. I know it is taboo to actually speak of SOE in any positive way here but I do think they made every attempt to save SWG and it lasted far longer than I ever expected it to.
I am probably the most happiest person in the world atm that $OE shut down SWG
I think this first sentence says everything we need to know about you. You are glad that thousands of people have lost their enjoyment. That is really some pathetic schadenfreude.
I am probably the most happiest person in the world atm that $OE shut down SWG
I think this first sentence says everything we need to know about you. You are glad that thousands of people have lost their enjoyment. That is really some pathetic schadenfreude.
I'm not happy the current players lost their game, the majority of them probably did not play the game I loved back in the beginning; I'm just happy $OE lost SWG.
That being said, it sucks for those who enjoy the current game.
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
I'm pretty sure they stated it was a mutual decision, not just LucasArts saying, "You fucked up the game, time to call it quits in lieu of our new blockbuster."
Besides, SWG is a shell of what it was, like they stated in the interview as well. It's never recovered from NGE. I for one, doubt it could have. They turned a game completely inside out without regards to their community. Big no no.
SWG is actually much better than it was at NGE launch. Some would argue that it is the best it has ever been due to the dungeon and PvP content that SWG never had until now. People forget how grindy pre-NGE was.
All of the some may argue that its the best its ever been but look at the sub numbers.
Look at them...
SWG has very good population numbers on at least 3 servers that I know of. Some MMO's today wish they had 3 good servers.
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I'm pretty sure they stated it was a mutual decision, not just LucasArts saying, "You fucked up the game, time to call it quits in lieu of our new blockbuster."
Besides, SWG is a shell of what it was, like they stated in the interview as well. It's never recovered from NGE. I for one, doubt it could have. They turned a game completely inside out without regards to their community. Big no no.
SWG is actually much better than it was at NGE launch. Some would argue that it is the best it has ever been due to the dungeon and PvP content that SWG never had until now. People forget how grindy pre-NGE was.
All of the some may argue that its the best its ever been but look at the sub numbers.
Look at them...
SWG has very good population numbers on at least 3 servers that I know of. Some MMO's today wish they had 3 good servers.
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I am talking days before the announcement. Obviously the population is dropping really bad now...
I'm pretty sure they stated it was a mutual decision, not just LucasArts saying, "You fucked up the game, time to call it quits in lieu of our new blockbuster."
Besides, SWG is a shell of what it was, like they stated in the interview as well. It's never recovered from NGE. I for one, doubt it could have. They turned a game completely inside out without regards to their community. Big no no.
SWG is actually much better than it was at NGE launch. Some would argue that it is the best it has ever been due to the dungeon and PvP content that SWG never had until now. People forget how grindy pre-NGE was.
All of the some may argue that its the best its ever been but look at the sub numbers.
Look at them...
SWG has very good population numbers on at least 3 servers that I know of. Some MMO's today wish they had 3 good servers.
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I am talking days before the announcement. Obviously the population is dropping really bad now...
I was in the star port in Corella, got an invite to a guild. Shorty after the invite I got an email, it said for any member who recruits the next 20 folks we will pay 1 million credits. So I asked what was going on, come to find out the rest of them were like me, and decided to use the free 45 days. Came back and found out their guilds no longer exist, or they had been booted due to not logging in in forever.
I have yet to log into the official forums to see what the current player base is posting, but any indications of how vitriol its been in here the past few days it should be the same over there. I know a few folks I talked to were very upset, however I did not see any protest at any startport, not like when we got the nge and they were banning folks left and right for trying to crash the servers.
Its quite simple, LA wants XX millions each time hey need to renew the IP contract, swg while healty / self substaining now could not afourt to pay xx milllions for the "small" game it is now. if they had millions of players sure,they would ahve paid the prize, but whit resent losses that sony had to take and the stuborn high prize demanding of LA theres no way the contract could be prolonged.
LA is the big looser here (and the players) SOE probaly dint get much retuern and was more of a fine let them diehard fans have thier fw servers, asong those are populated (and they were to the max) the game runs itself (funds) , the loss now will be in in fans of the gerne and mechandice for LA.
EA/Bioaware wont realy notis anyting, they may loos some players over it but compared to the large comunity its just a tiny bit. the long run for SW:TOR might be slightly compromised tho since non-game-hoppers are the one scratching thier heads.
I'm pretty sure they stated it was a mutual decision, not just LucasArts saying, "You fucked up the game, time to call it quits in lieu of our new blockbuster."
Besides, SWG is a shell of what it was, like they stated in the interview as well. It's never recovered from NGE. I for one, doubt it could have. They turned a game completely inside out without regards to their community. Big no no.
SWG is actually much better than it was at NGE launch. Some would argue that it is the best it has ever been due to the dungeon and PvP content that SWG never had until now. People forget how grindy pre-NGE was.
All of the some may argue that its the best its ever been but look at the sub numbers.
Look at them...
SWG has very good population numbers on at least 3 servers that I know of. Some MMO's today wish they had 3 good servers.
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I am talking days before the announcement. Obviously the population is dropping really bad now...
I was in the star port in Corella, got an invite to a guild. Shorty after the invite I got an email, it said for any member who recruits the next 20 folks we will pay 1 million credits. So I asked what was going on, come to find out the rest of them were like me, and decided to use the free 45 days. Came back and found out their guilds no longer exist, or they had been booted due to not logging in in forever.
I have yet to log into the official forums to see what the current player base is posting, but any indications of how vitriol its been in here the past few days it should be the same over there. I know a few folks I talked to were very upset, however I did not see any protest at any startport, not like when we got the nge and they were banning folks left and right for trying to crash the servers.
Corronet... Right..and that supose to be the hub of swg these days ?
Currently non adventuring or rp players are either in eisley, Coronet at that far side of town doing the remembrance day stuff (rebs) or theed ,again far side of town (imps) and not near the starports.
starsider is packing still and plenty of people will stay till the end, theres also a large part that wont and leave assoon thier sub now runs out.
I'm pretty sure they stated it was a mutual decision, not just LucasArts saying, "You fucked up the game, time to call it quits in lieu of our new blockbuster."
Besides, SWG is a shell of what it was, like they stated in the interview as well. It's never recovered from NGE. I for one, doubt it could have. They turned a game completely inside out without regards to their community. Big no no.
SWG is actually much better than it was at NGE launch. Some would argue that it is the best it has ever been due to the dungeon and PvP content that SWG never had until now. People forget how grindy pre-NGE was.
All of the some may argue that its the best its ever been but look at the sub numbers.
Look at them...
SWG has very good population numbers on at least 3 servers that I know of. Some MMO's today wish they had 3 good servers.
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I am talking days before the announcement. Obviously the population is dropping really bad now...
I was in the star port in Corella
Corronet... Right..and that supose to be the hub of swg these days ?
Currently non adventuring or rp players are either in eisley, Coronet at that far side of town doing the remembrance day stuff (rebs) or theed ,again far side of town (imps) and not near the starports.
starsider is packing still and plenty of people will stay till the end, theres also a large part that wont and leave assoon thier sub now runs out.
You beat me to it. Coronet's hub has been dead for years. Not a good place to gather population intel. Starsider, Chilastra and Europe-Chimera are the ones that I have toons on and they are doing just fine with server population.
While SWG may of had a small and stable community it also was not a SOE origional title, it cost money to retain rights to the IP. So what some people, those playing it, see as enough players SOE might not see as enough. Especially if the subs don't equal the cost of keeping the game. SOE lost a lot of money this year, they closed down a lot of studios and fired a good number of people. With a choice between doing EQ next, a tittle they don't have to pay someone to use, put up against keeping SWG with a new game coming on the market I can see them going the safe rout. EQ had a lot of players once, SWG did too, but it needed a lot to cover the contract cost.
While I worry about ToR, I also know their writers have a 10 year plan, and if they roll out the content and expansions fast enough, and give us underwater environs and more races quick enough the game will last a lot longer than the haters think.
The real fear isn't that LA will shut down TOR when its a shell of a game. (if its a shell of a game, being shut down is a logical thing to happen.)
The real fear is that LA has the ability to step in and call the shots whenever they like. Say a year or two down the road they suddenly get an idea about a change in direction they want they game to go and force Bioware to do it.
I am probably the most happiest person in the world atm that $OE shut down SWG, up until I found out the reason why it was shut down. In an interview $med did with I think Massively (I'll post the link when I find it), $med mentioned he had a conversation with LA adn they agreed that SWG should be shut down.
What that means to me is that LA didn't want two competing products on the market and SWG was the obvious choice to be cut. I just can't help but think what will happen in five years, assuming I really get into SW:TOR and am still playing. What will happen when it gets old and subs are a shell of what they used to be? Does this mean, LA will start another MMO and eventually cut SW:TOR for a better younger model?
What I'm getting at is, $OE should have been the one to give up on SWG and not LA; although it is totally in LA's own right to kill the rights to the game. I'm saying what if at one point SW:TOR only has 10k players who are die-hard fans of the game and LA wants more with a newer game?
I just hope it doesn't happen, but it's always going to be in the back of my head while I play TOR.
Alot of people lost their game, dunno why you're happy... Also in 5 years if there IS a better and younger model, why the fvck will you still be playing the same old game?
The real fear isn't that LA will shut down TOR when its a shell of a game. (if its a shell of a game, being shut down is a logical thing to happen.)
The real fear is that LA has the ability to step in and call the shots whenever they like. Say a year or two down the road they suddenly get an idea about a change in direction they want they game to go and force Bioware to do it.
Which is why I wont put my time into this game based on this simple truth. I think the uphill battle is that gamers need a studio that is dedicated to them without screwing the customer over. I don't see any at all these days who can hold that title for "life" for MMORPG's.
SWG had a small but stable population. I returned a couple of years ago but didn't stay. The sandbox concept kept a lot of people still playing the game.
But your post brought about something that I've long talked about. An MMO based on a licensed property vs. an original story. It seems that outside of LOTRO mosty licensed based MMOs have failed to live up to subs and hype vs. their original story counterparts. SWG, AoC, Star Trek Online the list goes on with MMOs that pale in comparison with Eve Online, WoW, Rift, EQ/EQ2 etc. When you have a licensed property, you are continously beholden to its owners. Your expansions, patches, updates all have to conform to whatever the owner desires. If Blizz wanted to destroy Stormwind in WOW tomorrow, it could. But Bioware couldn't do the same.
And there's the eventual problem with SW:TOR a stable dedicated player base may not be enough to save it in 5 years if the game fails to live up to expectations with WOWish numbers.
I think you may be forgetting that this game is set 3,500 years or so before the "Original Trilogy". That gives BioWare a LOT of freedom to make changes that history itself could obliterate over time. Alderan itself could be completely devistated and abandoned for a thousand years and it would still fit in with the "Lore" of the original movies because it was later resettled and prospered. All BioWare has to do to maintain there agreements with LA is to remain true to the feel of Star Wars with this game because of the time difference. It really was a brilliant move.
As for the rest of your argument, I don't do the whole fortune telling thing too well, so I'll remeain silent there.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The real fear isn't that LA will shut down TOR when its a shell of a game. (if its a shell of a game, being shut down is a logical thing to happen.)
The real fear is that LA has the ability to step in and call the shots whenever they like. Say a year or two down the road they suddenly get an idea about a change in direction they want they game to go and force Bioware to do it.
The problem with SWG and why the sweeping changes were made was because SOE released a tech demo - chat room and called it an MMO.
I'd like to see your source, copies of the contracts, information or whatever it is that would lead you to believe Bioware would be dumb enough to sign an agreement where LA has complete creative control over TOR. It's "the real fear", hahaha just ridiculous.
Yeah, Lucasarts might force Bioware to make the game more like WoW like they did with SWG... oh wait....
Sorry, can you point to a link that shows us that LA actually did that to BioWare please. Last I knew BioWare Reps were saying that all the design decisions were up to them, but I may have missed something.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Why would SWG be a competitor to SWTOR? It's an old game, and only veterans will play it (nostalgic reasons). Players who have never played SWG will 100% always choose a new product - SWTOR.
Yeah, Lucasarts might force Bioware to make the game more like WoW like they did with SWG... oh wait....
Sorry, can you point to a link that shows us that LA actually did that to BioWare please. Last I knew BioWare Reps were saying that all the design decisions were up to them, but I may have missed something.
Lucasarts did it to SWG is what I was saying. Biowares MMO just happens to be a WoW clone... What a coincidence!
So why would they renew a 10 year license if they weren't going to make money off of it? If Bioware is faultering in 10 years and has less than 20k people playing the game then I am sure that SWTOR will be shut down at the end of the license as well. Not really concerned with what MMo I am going to be playing in 10 years though honestly.
Comments
I doubt SWTOR will be closed just because LA wants to attract players to a new Star Wars mmo, if the game has a good amount of subscribers. Despite the future some seers have seen, with SWTOR failing, it may well keep a population between 500k-1mil. If it were at those numbers 6 years from now, I doubt the game would be tossed away. Not only that but how many players of SWTOR would really even go to this supposed new mmo? Current SWG players, at least what I've seen on forums, outright despise SWTOR, find any flaws they can, real or imagined, so why wouldn't the same be true in a case of a new SW mmo vs SWTOR?
SWG was never any threat to TOR. There is no reason for Lucas Arts to shut down SWG for any fear of what it might do to TOR. It is simply a nonfactor for TOR.
SWG was shut down, because both SOE and Lucas Arts recognized it was a dead game and jointly decided to shut the game down. There really is no reason for either company to make plans to continue on with the game for years to come. A few thousand subscribers isn't worth holding the license for this MMO being tied up in a game that has failed and is little more than an embarrassment to either company.
It is a shame that SWG will close down but to be honest, it was never that great, in my opinion. I think many people put on the rose tinted glasses and look back fondly on it as something far more and far better than it actually was.
I have played all of the Bioware games to be released and just that fact that Bioware is doing it in a simiar fashion to KOTOR meets ME2, meets MMO makes this a winner for me. I doubt it will go the way of SWG.
That being said, I think we are also seeing the fact that MOST MMOs will have a shelf life with some being longer than others. WOW is really the exception to the rule and came about from a perfect storm and great timing. I doubt, as far as subs and the like there will ever be another game like it as far as level of success is concerned. That doe not make other game a failure though and SWTOR should be a success.
A LOT of non-mmo players will pick this game up as the first experience in an MMO so some of the things that feel a little tired to the MMO elite will be fresh to them, even if they had tried WOW or some other MMO once.
Just putting my common sense hat on I don't see anything that Lucas Arts, EA, or Bioware are doing with this game that is setting it up to fail or go the way of the DoDo (AKA SWG). SWG had issues from the start that had nothing to do with these companies and everything to do with the game itself. I know it is taboo to actually speak of SOE in any positive way here but I do think they made every attempt to save SWG and it lasted far longer than I ever expected it to.
At least the NGE was admitted to be a huge mistake and with that knowledge i hope it will not be repeated with TOR.
Note that i did say hope
I think this first sentence says everything we need to know about you. You are glad that thousands of people have lost their enjoyment. That is really some pathetic schadenfreude.
I'm not happy the current players lost their game, the majority of them probably did not play the game I loved back in the beginning; I'm just happy $OE lost SWG.
That being said, it sucks for those who enjoy the current game.
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
Lol your kidding me I logged into starslider the past few days. The most folks I saw was in bestine. I counted 15 total for the 3 hours I was online. I also used a search using that tool looking for friends. If you call that a healthy population then somethings wrong with you.
I am talking days before the announcement. Obviously the population is dropping really bad now...
I was in the star port in Corella, got an invite to a guild. Shorty after the invite I got an email, it said for any member who recruits the next 20 folks we will pay 1 million credits. So I asked what was going on, come to find out the rest of them were like me, and decided to use the free 45 days. Came back and found out their guilds no longer exist, or they had been booted due to not logging in in forever.
I have yet to log into the official forums to see what the current player base is posting, but any indications of how vitriol its been in here the past few days it should be the same over there. I know a few folks I talked to were very upset, however I did not see any protest at any startport, not like when we got the nge and they were banning folks left and right for trying to crash the servers.
Its quite simple, LA wants XX millions each time hey need to renew the IP contract, swg while healty / self substaining now could not afourt to pay xx milllions for the "small" game it is now. if they had millions of players sure,they would ahve paid the prize, but whit resent losses that sony had to take and the stuborn high prize demanding of LA theres no way the contract could be prolonged.
LA is the big looser here (and the players) SOE probaly dint get much retuern and was more of a fine let them diehard fans have thier fw servers, asong those are populated (and they were to the max) the game runs itself (funds) , the loss now will be in in fans of the gerne and mechandice for LA.
EA/Bioaware wont realy notis anyting, they may loos some players over it but compared to the large comunity its just a tiny bit. the long run for SW:TOR might be slightly compromised tho since non-game-hoppers are the one scratching thier heads.
Corronet... Right..and that supose to be the hub of swg these days ?
Currently non adventuring or rp players are either in eisley, Coronet at that far side of town doing the remembrance day stuff (rebs) or theed ,again far side of town (imps) and not near the starports.
starsider is packing still and plenty of people will stay till the end, theres also a large part that wont and leave assoon thier sub now runs out.
You beat me to it. Coronet's hub has been dead for years. Not a good place to gather population intel. Starsider, Chilastra and Europe-Chimera are the ones that I have toons on and they are doing just fine with server population.
While SWG may of had a small and stable community it also was not a SOE origional title, it cost money to retain rights to the IP. So what some people, those playing it, see as enough players SOE might not see as enough. Especially if the subs don't equal the cost of keeping the game. SOE lost a lot of money this year, they closed down a lot of studios and fired a good number of people. With a choice between doing EQ next, a tittle they don't have to pay someone to use, put up against keeping SWG with a new game coming on the market I can see them going the safe rout. EQ had a lot of players once, SWG did too, but it needed a lot to cover the contract cost.
While I worry about ToR, I also know their writers have a 10 year plan, and if they roll out the content and expansions fast enough, and give us underwater environs and more races quick enough the game will last a lot longer than the haters think.
I love how everyone hates SOE for making SWG into a Themepark...but praise ToR as being the savior of MMOs! Its gonna be a themepark guys...
Dont play for what maybe, play what you enjoy at the moment or "in the moment".
The real fear isn't that LA will shut down TOR when its a shell of a game. (if its a shell of a game, being shut down is a logical thing to happen.)
The real fear is that LA has the ability to step in and call the shots whenever they like. Say a year or two down the road they suddenly get an idea about a change in direction they want they game to go and force Bioware to do it.
(mod edited)
Alot of people lost their game, dunno why you're happy... Also in 5 years if there IS a better and younger model, why the fvck will you still be playing the same old game?
Which is why I wont put my time into this game based on this simple truth. I think the uphill battle is that gamers need a studio that is dedicated to them without screwing the customer over. I don't see any at all these days who can hold that title for "life" for MMORPG's.
I think you may be forgetting that this game is set 3,500 years or so before the "Original Trilogy". That gives BioWare a LOT of freedom to make changes that history itself could obliterate over time. Alderan itself could be completely devistated and abandoned for a thousand years and it would still fit in with the "Lore" of the original movies because it was later resettled and prospered. All BioWare has to do to maintain there agreements with LA is to remain true to the feel of Star Wars with this game because of the time difference. It really was a brilliant move.
As for the rest of your argument, I don't do the whole fortune telling thing too well, so I'll remeain silent there.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Yeah, Lucasarts might force Bioware to make the game more like WoW like they did with SWG... oh wait....
Remember Old School Ultima Online
The problem with SWG and why the sweeping changes were made was because SOE released a tech demo - chat room and called it an MMO.
I'd like to see your source, copies of the contracts, information or whatever it is that would lead you to believe Bioware would be dumb enough to sign an agreement where LA has complete creative control over TOR. It's "the real fear", hahaha just ridiculous.
Sorry, can you point to a link that shows us that LA actually did that to BioWare please. Last I knew BioWare Reps were saying that all the design decisions were up to them, but I may have missed something.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Why would SWG be a competitor to SWTOR? It's an old game, and only veterans will play it (nostalgic reasons). Players who have never played SWG will 100% always choose a new product - SWTOR.
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My Guild Wars titles
Lucasarts did it to SWG is what I was saying. Biowares MMO just happens to be a WoW clone... What a coincidence!
Remember Old School Ultima Online
So why would they renew a 10 year license if they weren't going to make money off of it? If Bioware is faultering in 10 years and has less than 20k people playing the game then I am sure that SWTOR will be shut down at the end of the license as well. Not really concerned with what MMo I am going to be playing in 10 years though honestly.