For those interested, this bit of Massively article is interesting:
To blunt the pain of a permanent character loss, players can stash gear, weapons, and valuables in a "cloak room" that is accessible to their next toons.
basically you can still retain your valuables if you manage your inventory well and do not play around the places for weeks with crowded inventory
I knew it! I knew they'd do something to make it a bit less harsh, but I actually think that's a good idea. That's a little like Salem's idea of perma-death, with your children being able to make use of all that you acquired over your last character's lifetime. To me, this makes a lot more sense.
The only issue is people will end up leaving all their Uber gear at home so as not to lose it, but that's sort of to be expected. Still, I see this is a reasonable compromise. I still think it will have a niche audience, but I see a lot less rage-quitting with this as a feature.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The fact that to this day Permadeath Multiplayers like Diablo are still up and running and have a very loyal hardcore base disproves what you say.
No, it doesn't. Diablo is not an MMO. It's not a persistant world with constantly updating content. It's a single-player game that people can join and play with or against you in. That's a huge difference from an MMO. Furthermore, Diablo's non-hardcore players FAR outnumber those who are hardcore, and if you actually played Diablo you would know this, so I don't know how you could even use this as an example. Diablo isn't entirely permadeath, only the highest set difficulty players have perma-death and most people don't play at those settings.
Further, most people who do have made use of item duping and hacking to get themselves uber gear and stats. So really, I'm not sure where you were going with that example.
Im specificaly speaking of the Hardcore players, which is why I stated it originally but you seemed to miss that, and I do play Diablo 2 LoD, imo if your not playing hardcore servers, your not really playing the game. Also duping and hacking is done on the open servers, not the b.net servers.
Is Diablo a complete MMO, no, but it was more a matter of showing that it can and does work, even looking at Wizardrys Perma Death, its still Perma Death lite, you can run back to your body your good, if you dont die in your ghost form, its not perma death.
Here I guess for you I will be a bit more specific, SWG Jedi system had a form of perma Death thats pretty similar, except it was based on if you died 3 times within a week you lost your jedi character permly. This system was amazing, and made your accomplishments mean something, it was even in a world with no perma death, those specific character still had it. To add to it, there were Player Bounty Hunters hunting them all across the galaxy because of NPC bounty missions to kill player jedi, so theres your PvP involved with Perma Death.
This required people to play smartly, or risk losing alot of work, thats what perma death is supposed to be getting across to the player.
Admittedly most people would not play their jedi if they had died 2 times that week untill it reset to avoid the perm death, but with the running back system Wizardry is showing that doesnt even need to be considered.
P.S. I just saw the post about the stash box for gear to be carried to other characters, this is a decent compromise, and while I do see people leaving because their best gear to keep it safe, by doing that they are just increases their chances of being killed themselves. Also I'm assuming that gear will have stat requirements if not level requirements, so you generally wont get to use it right off that bat on new characters. Smart players will stock up on lowbie items, and gold, and whatever other materials you can so that if a character perm dies you can remake and hit the ground running, this is the strategy used in games like Darkfall and Mortal albeit a little diffrently.
always wanted a game like this but i just watched some gameplay videos and the graphix animations are bad and combat is slow seems like another game not knowing how to make a true action game just adding dodge abilities does not create one if you tank every mob with your armor / buffs and heals
Originally posted by snoocky OMG I am shocked!! Wizardry, such nice historic game, i loved the series....They could have made a good MMorpg of it...wait... Now there's gonna be a mmorpg, made in Asia ?
Why? It's just like Aion, FF etc... This is a real petty.....
Thats because Wizardry Even now is one of THE biggest things in Japan, so it makes sense for japanese company to make wizardry mmo.
Thats because Wizardry Even now is one of THE biggest things in Japan, so it makes sense for japanese company to make wizardry mmo.
I would say that the Japanese love for the grind is directly attributable to copying that particular design aspect of Wizardry.
It's funny that the kind of Western created gameplay people found hardcore in games like Wizardry and Bard's Tale become referred to as 'Asian grindfest' in modern days.
Looks like demon souls on the PS3. (Hardest game ever)
Cant wait!
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well.
No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through.
So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Originally posted by tinuelle Originally posted by psyknx Looks like demon souls on the PS3. (Hardest game ever) Cant wait!
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well. No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through. So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Here be example of my latest playthrough of Wizardry 8: --------------------------------- 8:00: Morning. Fire up the game where I left off. Get into the dungeon i have to go to get some certain item. 8:30: One of my npc party members just got killed and i have no resurrection scrolls for him...oh well... 9:00: I seem to be going in circles as I just went back to the place my party member died. The claustrophobic hallways just look freaking same to me... 10:00: Damn chest with trap killed another party member...and I am still going in circles. 11:30: Finally found a passage I missed. Got rushed by 5 spiders right as i opened the door. only two members left now, if only i knew where the exit was. 12:00: found seemingly recognizable path already. 12:05: and fell into the floor trap, falling few levels down into place I have no idea how to get out of. 12:50: got rushed by skeletons. only two party members alive and low on health and mp.need to find a place to camp and regain hp. 13:50: found one place, seemingly secure. setting up camp. 13:55: HOLY S-*- got rushed by skeleton guys. 14:00: roll a new character. ---------------------------------
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I just read a write up over on Massively... It's been a while since such a small bit of information has gotten me so intrigued about an upcoming game..
I'm in I loved the Wizardry series and I am seriously tired of the games where death is meaningless. It's kind of hard to even pretend to be some kind of hero (any kind) when you simply reappear after you've been killed a thousand times.
Originally posted by LydarSynn I'm in I loved the Wizardry series and I am seriously tired of the games where death is meaningless. It's kind of hard to even pretend to be some kind of hero (any kind) when you simply reappear after you've been killed a thousand times.
Thats kind of my MAIN problem with many present day mmos. Death is cheap. It makes dungeon runs and everything cheap and causes players to rush to endgame.
with this kind of perma-death and danger, the goal is game itself and not the endgame and you can actually feel damn good when you have done some dungeon.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Looks like demon souls on the PS3. (Hardest game ever)
Cant wait!
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well.
No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through.
So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Here be example of my latest playthrough of Wizardry 8:
---------------------------------
8:00: Morning. Fire up the game where I left off. Get into the dungeon i have to go to get some certain item.
8:30: One of my npc party members just got killed and i have no resurrection scrolls for him...oh well...
9:00: I seem to be going in circles as I just went back to the place my party member died. The claustrophobic hallways just look freaking same to me...
10:00: Damn chest with trap killed another party member...and I am still going in circles.
11:30: Finally found a passage I missed. Got rushed by 5 spiders right as i opened the door. only two members left now, if only i knew where the exit was.
12:00: found seemingly recognizable path already.
12:05: and fell into the floor trap, falling few levels down into place I have no idea how to get out of.
12:50: got rushed by skeletons. only two party members alive and low on health and mp.need to find a place to camp and regain hp.
13:50: found one place, seemingly secure. setting up camp.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wizardy Online ! Was all sort of hyped about Wizardy comming back since I used to play that game a lot back in the day... However, with PermaDeath in the game the only Wootage I can think of now is that I will save the money it would have cost me to actualy buy this game.
Don't want to stomp on anyones perade but this game will fail here.
The concept of perma death is terrible unless a good player can easily avoid hard situations and run away.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
But I guess more power to those that want it, hopefully none of you brake your computer that play this game. I know I won't because ill probably brake something.
It's not masochistic at all if they don't put in a level 50 cap that requires 10 hours of play per level ect. Permadeath games don't need high level caps as things won't stagnate due to the dynamic nature of such games. Everyone is gonna die eventually so no need to worry about people getting bored at endgame and requiring them to grind for long periods.
Permadeath games can actually be a lot less masochistic since you typically don't have to grind 1000 rats or whatever at a time to make progress.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Yuui
Originally posted by tinuelle
Originally posted by psyknx Looks like demon souls on the PS3. (Hardest game ever) Cant wait!
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well. No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through. So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Here be example of my latest playthrough of Wizardry 8: --------------------------------- 8:00: Morning. Fire up the game where I left off. Get into the dungeon i have to go to get some certain item. 8:30: One of my npc party members just got killed and i have no resurrection scrolls for him...oh well... 9:00: I seem to be going in circles as I just went back to the place my party member died. The claustrophobic hallways just look freaking same to me... 10:00: Damn chest with trap killed another party member...and I am still going in circles. 11:30: Finally found a passage I missed. Got rushed by 5 spiders right as i opened the door. only two members left now, if only i knew where the exit was. 12:00: found seemingly recognizable path already. 12:05: and fell into the floor trap, falling few levels down into place I have no idea how to get out of. 12:50: got rushed by skeletons. only two party members alive and low on health and mp.need to find a place to camp and regain hp. 13:50: found one place, seemingly secure. setting up camp. 13:55: HOLY S-*- got rushed by skeleton guys. 14:00: roll a new character. --------------------------------- For you, I shall leave this link right here.
I know that place to the point that i can pretty much recite website structure by memory :P
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Comments
I knew it! I knew they'd do something to make it a bit less harsh, but I actually think that's a good idea. That's a little like Salem's idea of perma-death, with your children being able to make use of all that you acquired over your last character's lifetime. To me, this makes a lot more sense.
The only issue is people will end up leaving all their Uber gear at home so as not to lose it, but that's sort of to be expected. Still, I see this is a reasonable compromise. I still think it will have a niche audience, but I see a lot less rage-quitting with this as a feature.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Im specificaly speaking of the Hardcore players, which is why I stated it originally but you seemed to miss that, and I do play Diablo 2 LoD, imo if your not playing hardcore servers, your not really playing the game. Also duping and hacking is done on the open servers, not the b.net servers.
Is Diablo a complete MMO, no, but it was more a matter of showing that it can and does work, even looking at Wizardrys Perma Death, its still Perma Death lite, you can run back to your body your good, if you dont die in your ghost form, its not perma death.
Here I guess for you I will be a bit more specific, SWG Jedi system had a form of perma Death thats pretty similar, except it was based on if you died 3 times within a week you lost your jedi character permly. This system was amazing, and made your accomplishments mean something, it was even in a world with no perma death, those specific character still had it. To add to it, there were Player Bounty Hunters hunting them all across the galaxy because of NPC bounty missions to kill player jedi, so theres your PvP involved with Perma Death.
This required people to play smartly, or risk losing alot of work, thats what perma death is supposed to be getting across to the player.
Admittedly most people would not play their jedi if they had died 2 times that week untill it reset to avoid the perm death, but with the running back system Wizardry is showing that doesnt even need to be considered.
P.S. I just saw the post about the stash box for gear to be carried to other characters, this is a decent compromise, and while I do see people leaving because their best gear to keep it safe, by doing that they are just increases their chances of being killed themselves. Also I'm assuming that gear will have stat requirements if not level requirements, so you generally wont get to use it right off that bat on new characters. Smart players will stock up on lowbie items, and gold, and whatever other materials you can so that if a character perm dies you can remake and hit the ground running, this is the strategy used in games like Darkfall and Mortal albeit a little diffrently.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
I present you: the videos from the first Japanese stress test ever:
Wizardry Online - Opening Log In Screen
Wizardry Online: Race Selection Screen
WIzardry Online : Character Creation
Wizardry Online: Starting Town
Wizardry Online: Stress and Latency test with 100 players
Wizardry Online: Special Stress Test Dungeon with 100 Player Party (shows a bit on how combat works and its not click-to-target) <== notice how minimap gets disabled once you enter dungeon? :P
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
It looks like Final Fantasy...
Well, both ff and this has same roots
CRPGS and JRPGS started off pretty much from Wizardry and rogue-like dungeon crawlers
EDIT:
Wizardry Online: Dungeon fly-through video
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
And further back from table top RPGs
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
Town Fly-through
REALLY loving the art style so far.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
sweet looks like from the character creation video, you can spend hours just rerolling for more starting points, I wonder about classes....
always wanted a game like this but i just watched some gameplay videos and the graphix animations are bad and combat is slow seems like another game not knowing how to make a true action game just adding dodge abilities does not create one if you tank every mob with your armor / buffs and heals
OMG I am shocked!!
Wizardry, such nice historic game, i loved the series....They could have made a good MMorpg of it...wait...
Now there's gonna be a mmorpg, made in Asia ?
Why? It's just like Aion, FF etc...
This is a real petty.....
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
Thats because Wizardry Even now is one of THE biggest things in Japan, so it makes sense for japanese company to make wizardry mmo.
EDIT:
Wizardry Online; Combat demo
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I like the dungeon design, tight corridors is what i think of when i think of a dungeon, not these huge open spaces
I would say that the Japanese love for the grind is directly attributable to copying that particular design aspect of Wizardry.
It's funny that the kind of Western created gameplay people found hardcore in games like Wizardry and Bard's Tale become referred to as 'Asian grindfest' in modern days.
meow great point
in the 80's if some of you actually played the originals we used to do things like
Grind Greater demons for hours on end
Grind 4 groups of berserkers x99 for hours
Grind City Guards for hours on end aboard our frigates.
Grind Jousters for hours on end
AND WE LOVED IT!!!!!!
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well.
No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through.
So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through.
So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Here be example of my latest playthrough of Wizardry 8:
---------------------------------
8:00: Morning. Fire up the game where I left off. Get into the dungeon i have to go to get some certain item.
8:30: One of my npc party members just got killed and i have no resurrection scrolls for him...oh well...
9:00: I seem to be going in circles as I just went back to the place my party member died. The claustrophobic hallways just look freaking same to me...
10:00: Damn chest with trap killed another party member...and I am still going in circles.
11:30: Finally found a passage I missed. Got rushed by 5 spiders right as i opened the door. only two members left now, if only i knew where the exit was.
12:00: found seemingly recognizable path already.
12:05: and fell into the floor trap, falling few levels down into place I have no idea how to get out of.
12:50: got rushed by skeletons. only two party members alive and low on health and mp.need to find a place to camp and regain hp.
13:50: found one place, seemingly secure. setting up camp.
13:55: HOLY S-*- got rushed by skeleton guys.
14:00: roll a new character.
---------------------------------
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I just read a write up over on Massively... It's been a while since such a small bit of information has gotten me so intrigued about an upcoming game..
I'm in
I loved the Wizardry series and I am seriously tired of the games where death is meaningless. It's kind of hard to even pretend to be some kind of hero (any kind) when you simply reappear after you've been killed a thousand times.
with this kind of perma-death and danger, the goal is game itself and not the endgame and you can actually feel damn good when you have done some dungeon.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I hate mazes. So this game is not for me. But looks interesting. I'm sure a lot of people will have fun playing it.
For you, I shall leave this link right here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wizardy Online ! Was all sort of hyped about Wizardy comming back since I used to play that game a lot back in the day... However, with PermaDeath in the game the only Wootage I can think of now is that I will save the money it would have cost me to actualy buy this game.
Ratero.
It's not masochistic at all if they don't put in a level 50 cap that requires 10 hours of play per level ect. Permadeath games don't need high level caps as things won't stagnate due to the dynamic nature of such games. Everyone is gonna die eventually so no need to worry about people getting bored at endgame and requiring them to grind for long periods.
Permadeath games can actually be a lot less masochistic since you typically don't have to grind 1000 rats or whatever at a time to make progress.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I applaud them for trying to be different in a world of clones
Hehe, I loved that game..... though damn straight hate it as well.
No damn game has ever pushed me that hard to the point of wishing to smash my PS3 to pieces like the Demons souls. Though got addicted and played it through.
So yeah, if its anything like that, lovely....... and hate!
Here be example of my latest playthrough of Wizardry 8:
---------------------------------
8:00: Morning. Fire up the game where I left off. Get into the dungeon i have to go to get some certain item.
8:30: One of my npc party members just got killed and i have no resurrection scrolls for him...oh well...
9:00: I seem to be going in circles as I just went back to the place my party member died. The claustrophobic hallways just look freaking same to me...
10:00: Damn chest with trap killed another party member...and I am still going in circles.
11:30: Finally found a passage I missed. Got rushed by 5 spiders right as i opened the door. only two members left now, if only i knew where the exit was.
12:00: found seemingly recognizable path already.
12:05: and fell into the floor trap, falling few levels down into place I have no idea how to get out of.
12:50: got rushed by skeletons. only two party members alive and low on health and mp.need to find a place to camp and regain hp.
13:50: found one place, seemingly secure. setting up camp.
13:55: HOLY S-*- got rushed by skeleton guys.
14:00: roll a new character.
---------------------------------
For you, I shall leave this link right here.
I know that place to the point that i can pretty much recite website structure by memory :P
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON