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Vanguard does not need updates/patches/expansions !
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
I don't get the hate. Please explain why the hate can last over three years ?....I don't like SOE If you ask me they are nasty with there MMO's.
EQ1 & EQ2 are old games. They pump out paid expansions every eight months and wank people $30 every time. There expansions hit the store and they pretend that it's a new release. YET, and this is important " they never fix there old content ".
EQ2 's Maps suck, Zoning suck, Coding sucks, Classes are extremely unbalanced, even to the point that every mmo on the list has better balanced classes. Finish a 1-10 level area and try and figure out where to go next. EQ2 has this goofy system where you run out on a dock and ring some kind of bell so you can get a drop down box with a list of zones. OK now that you have a list of zones, what one do you pick ? Ask in open chat ? Sure and get a smart remark back like " we have another noob here ".
People don't Stay in EQ1 & EQ2 because of the above. Both classics are broke and had never been fixed. SOE does not fix there old content they just look ahead with paid expansions. It's 2011 and they still don't play on many new computers.
20K 30K 100K subs ?...........BULL !.............I played EQ2 on and off several times in the past. Each time I made it a point to use there Social Panel, Advanced Find to count real time players on several of the more populated servers only to find maybe 800 to 1000 players on at prime time. So this is telling me they have 4K at the most and this is when the game was more popular.
So yes, SOE sucks !!
NOW ON TO VANGUARD :
Again it's a full game already. All the ingredients are already in
15 balanced classes- 4 good healing classes that can easily solo, need a healer for your group ? No problem. Many people play healers. 7 DPS/ Casters, each one plays different and unique to each other, in fact unique to any other mmo. 3 tank classes, well I have to say I find there tank classes hard to solo it's only my opinion but some work could be done there.
World- 3 huge continents. Kojan, Qualia, and Thestra....They can only be out done by WoW and maybe LOTRO. Feel free to name an MMO that is larger, and with more starting, middle and end game zones....Maybe EQ2 but that game is a mess.
Zoning and maps- Vanguard's rift system and flying mounts are the best in any game for such a large world, getting around is easy. Maps are complicated at first, maybe overwhelming, it may take weeks to developer your skills to understand but if your playing for the long hall like mmo's are made to do, than it gets easy ( a little hint, use the + and - on the mini map to zoom in on your objective ).
Trial Island- Good add on.....It explains everything. By the time your done with the Trial Island you should know how to play. Understand that Vanguard is deep. You will be learning forever !
Dungeons- BEST EVER, OLD SCHOOL, HARD, LONG COMPLACATED....can you handle it ? Vanilla WoW's dungeons were good but they screwed that game up. EQ2 has some good ones, but that game is garbage.
Population- ya it's low, but use your resources. Use the Social panel advanced find, ask others if you can play with them...Don't be lazy....Wa Wa no one will kiss my butt and play with me, can't you see me using /say asking for help to do a quest no one really understands ?....This never works !....Come on, think about it. What mmo has it that people will come running to your aid like that......GO to them, do there stuff, make a friend and add that friend to your list !
Bugs and coding- Bugs are mostly fixed, sorry this is a fact !......Coding and playability problems ? Well change your settings from default " balanced " to " High Performance " and Vanguard will play crisp and clean on a calculator.
OK now that we have all that...........Please tell me what update, patches and expansions you would like to see in Vanguard ? Unless you played the hell out of the game for years, it has everything....everything !!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Sigil and Brad... You did a good job, and sorry the greedy Directors and Investers screwed you over and made you release to early.....You did good !
Comments
Hay did you know :
Healer classes such as Cleric's and Disciple's can tank and fight ?
Even monks can tank.
Vanguard covered all there tracks
That which does not grow, dies. MMO's which don't have players, never gain them spontaneouly, so far only turning them F2P seems to bring a dying game back to life.
VG failed a long time ago, and SOE isn't concerned about its survival.
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Sorry, Vangaurd had its chance, got my money for some months and it got a worse game every month, every patch until i left in anger.
I guess many people had the same experience...
No chance to get me back it can be good as heavens paradise...i am fed up of it til the last judgement.
Also, been disapointed by SOE 3 times (EQ2, !laughable! if played in german language, totally broken translation, forcing you to translate back into english or look at english langauge wikis what the hell you have to do, the naming only a honeypot to get you ingame), SWG speaking for itself and Vanguard - this technically horrible mess of a potential mmo hit.
3 Chances to show me quality and competence and 3 times a miss - i will dance and laugh if this damend bullshit company wents under water and all the incompetent bastards at the helm will end up impaled and burned to death!!!
(to have it said in a colourfull language to express my true feelings toward this company^^)
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Vanguard doesn't need a monthly fee either, but it has one. Go figure...
You mock Everquest II for being complicated in its world, and praise Vanguard for its complicated world in the same breath. Those are some expensive looking rose-tinted glasses you're wearing there, where can I buy a pair?
^ This right here.
A f2p model could only help Vanguard and SOE refuses to do so.
Ok so far we have :
Kylern, Blutmaul, Deathstriker2 Omali Karnage69 on the Vanguard hate list with no backing on there hate.
They hate just to hate !.....No reason. Three years have gone, it's almost a sickness. You should hate OPIC for the high price of oil, yet you drive your car everyday.
##### PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE ADDED TO THIS GAME ????
##### WHAT DOES EQ2 HAVE OR DONE BETTER THAN VANGUARD ??????
EQ2 has there AA system, that allows a player to turn Exp down and increase there strengths. It's a nice feature, but it has draw backs.........A vet level 30 will not play with a noob level 30 because there gimped.
It would take years to run out of content in Vanguard, and miles more updated than EQ2. So please just answer the two questions.
1) What should be added to Vanguard ?
2) What makes EQ2 better ?
That's because it would take a lot of money and effort to make it f2p.
People kept chastising LOTRO because it didnt' come out with the amount of updates they were used to. It's because the team was making the game f2p and completely redoing it so that its contents could be, essentially, monetized.
Of course Vanguard does have some sort of tie with station cash as one can buy currency from players in game. But that hasn't done much to revitalize it.
In any case, Sony would have to spend time and resources making it f2p and since it's not a title they are interested in developing they won't do it.
Remember, companies don't generally do things that make them money. They do things that will make them "a certain amount of money".
there is a difference.
If they were to expend time and money to make slightly more money then that wouldn't be worth it. If spending time and money could provably make them gobs of money then they would be all over that like flies on honey.
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I am tired of developer teams constantly fucking with the games I love. I know they are different teams with different visions for the games they work on. They want to have jobs and get paid. I understand that. But I can just imagine if some of the old single player games that I love were constantly getting changed. I love them just the way they are. Change is not always good. I sometimes wish players weren't so insistant that devs have to patch and update once a month.
Of course the caveat being that there is no monthly fee as well.
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EQ2 did go back and add a quest line that leads you to an appropriate zone for your level, so you're no longer left guessing. But I think Vanguard had the same issue. There were times I wasn't sure where to go, so I just went and explored and figured out it for myself.
As to your question, just from my own perspective and play style, in EQ2 you get an affordable home the moment you start playing. If you want something larger, it gets affordable pretty quickly. Homes are conveniently located, a great way to sell items, and offers transportation with guild hall doors or other items. In the months I played Vanguard, I never had the money to buy a plot (which is inconveniently located and serves no real purpose) let alone the materials to have it built.
But that's just housing. I know some like Vanguard's crafting, but I found it frustrating and enjoy crafting in EQ2. Plus I like their broker system the best out of any mmo. There is almost always something going on, whether it's a city festival, holiday, or moonlight enchantment events that keep me with things to do other than combat all the time.
As large a world as Vanguard is, I hit mid levels and had very limited options left on where to go as a solo or duo player. The one thing I do prefer about Vanguard over EQ2 though is the classes. If EQ2 had Vanguard classes instead of the bland ones they have now, it would be a nearly perfect mmo for me. So if Vanguard added more accessible housing, guild halls that served a purpose other than storage, more soloable/duoable content and variety to get me through the mid levels, and maybe some public quests to bring folks together, and maybe make things slightly less brutal overall, I'd give it another shot.
I think when they added the trial island, that was their last effort to see if they could attract more players. I don't think that succeeded because from my experience the island was more hardcore than any of the original starting zones. The solo quests have you going into caves where you're ganged up by multiple mobs on quick respawns. It was frustrating and not enjoyable. I had loved Halgarad as a starting area. The isle I think lacks the charm and fun of the original starting zones.
But anyway, to sum it up, there's just not enough in Vanguard for me to do, while I do have tons of stuff in EQ2.
How can anyone offer a counterpoint if all you are going to do is brand them a hater. If you want to discuss an issue, then discuss the issue. Don't lower the discussion by trying to discredit anyone who posts an opposing veiw.
I don't much like the way SOE runs their games. I think vanguard is wonderful game. I don't think it has been developed enough over the last 4 years to build on the great foundation it already had.
To that end I will very much disagree with your view that Vanguard doesn't need updates, patches and expansions. Vanguard is dieing as a direct result of it not getting expansions, updates and patches. It could be a great game, but without that support it will never reach its potential.
Sure people can join now and play for a while in the content that already exists, but there is an end to that content. While philosphically everything comes to an end, in the case of vanguard that end is very clearly defined, because at the current state of the game it will never see another update.
This in combination with charging industry premium subscription fee makes it a difficult choice for players to chose to invest their time into a game that could be shut down any day.
I don't hate vanguard, but it isn't going anywhere. All these pleas for people to save the game have not worked for 4 years now. The only real choice for this game is to let it die and hopefully the rights will be sold off to someone else who can give it a modest life again.
I think saying Vanguard failed is a little Harsh , agreed it failed to live up to everything it promised at launch but as the OP states its hard to find a bug in the game now and they did a good job of fixing it.
Its always had quite a sizeable following of fans too, plus its been around for along time.
Hmm... well I sort of agree with the OP about Vanguard not needing updates. For me there is plenty to do as is with the different choices in classes, races, crafting, and diplomacy. But I think anyone can see where it would benefit from some updating. I recently came back to Vanguard and my main character has been focused on diplomacy and diplomacy could use more structured questing. It's difficult to find quests my level so I tend to wander around and get whatever quests I can find, which usually are about 18 levels below me. Other than that a lot of grinding civil diplomacy. I haven't run into any gaps yet with adventure questing and crafting seems complicated enough.
I think if SOE would agree to do something minor like even just a yearly update that would go a long ways to reassuring people that the game is not dead. But it seems like they are happy to leave it in limbo as another game on the station pass that doesn't require their attention.
MMo games require lifeblood in the form of patches and content updates (and dare i say, expansions).
I have said before it would only take a small one of these every half-a-year or so to get my sub money for VG, but as it is i feel like i'm paying both money and time to witness the stagnation of a truly beloved game.
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Vanguard was an excellent game but if the OP would like to rewind a few years to the early days of subscription MMO's and consider a few facts. People were reluctant to part with cash on a monthly basis when the normal way of things was to purchase your game outright and play it for as long as you wished.
Along came the early MMO's. What you got for your subscription is continuous development with patches adding content, fixes and in game events run by the GM's. A living breathing fantasy world that ......... ect, ect. That was why you kept paying.
Some still do. I personally loved Vanguard. Great big world ( Respect for Keith Parkinson Rip.) beautifully done for its time. Good characters. A really excellent atmosphere. Probably the best crafting seen in an MMO and much more.
I left Vanguard when it became apparent that SOE were just milking it for every last $ they possibly could. As someone has posted, it would not have taken much for myself and wifey to stay or resub. But I am damned if I will pay that company another penny for doing nothing at all. SOE are there own worst enemy, a badly run company with scant regard for their customers.
I don't think that's true. The main reasons I think people stay away are that Vanguard is well known for it's terrible launch and anyone investigating the game usually finds out it has no development. Neither of those speak to the actual condition of the game. I've seen a lot of people who say they and their guilds would go back in an instant if there was some promise of development. But I think for many it's not about whether the game is worth playing, but rather just what are you paying for if you put $15 into a game where nothing gets fixed/changed? I wouldn't say she's 'dead in the water' but I certainly think she's in limbo and if nothing changes will eventually just die for good.
dear OP,
like some people said, an mmo without support and updates would not grow. Therefore, it would bite the dust aka die. Plus, whats the point of paying monthly for a game that will never change to keep players growing within its world?... thats like saying, oh super mario bros now is pay to play... screw that. i can see you enjoy the game like the rest of ppl still subbed, but that doesnt mean an mmo is complete and dont need updates... The fact that its an mmo it is mandatory taht it gets updates in order to survive....
Now, why the game doesnt die already? easy question... SOE whole staff would die from a real world cataclysm before they shut down a game that has some ppl subbed even if they dont update it anymore... they want those extra bucks and i wont fall for that joke of service (note i said service, not game... cos the game has potential, SOE service doesnt)
I more or less agree with that. There are basically three reasons it's hard to get people into Vanguard:
Launch-era hard feelings. This is hard to dispute; a lot of people felt burned by the game. Sigil (well, Brad) managed two things very badly: the company and customer expectations. The initial talk of a hardcore, old-school game gave way in development to a more mainstream design, which I ironically feel is a near-ideal mix between challenge and accessibility, but this priority shift wasn't clearly communicated to potential customers gearing up to launch. This has left the game with enormous baggage that's hard to dispel. A real relaunch could do it, and maybe SOE is working on tthis, but we have no real reason to think so.
The lack of development. As I mentioned before, people want to feel like they're playing a viable game, and no development makes Vanguard seem non-viable. There's a certain type of player who's willing to ignore this, but efforts to pitch the game to that audience have been halfhearted.
The low population. This is more a perception than a fact, but it's there nonetheless, and the vastness of the world tends to amplify perceived population issues.
I think these are able to be overcome, but it'd going to be very difficult to do without some help from SOE. Not impossible, but certainly a community-led effort to revitalize the game would be unprecedented. But I'm a sucker for lost causes.
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Hate list? I am not on any hate list.
After getting two characters to level 50, a Disciple and a Ranger. I grew tired of doing almost everything by myself. There is SO MUCH MORE in that game to explore, but you NEED a group. Its hard to do that with such a low population. I would go back to this game in a heart beat, if it just went F2P. I say this, because I honestly believe a F2P model would bring more population back to the game.
They game is dead, why cling on to it?
If it was a good game, more people would be playing based on that.
It's still got bugs from release, I'm actually really surprised the plug hasn't been pulled on it yet.
Station access, and no crew. Why would they pull the plug? Obviously SOE thinks its still valid.
People 'cling' to it because they play it or have played it and enjoy it and think it's a good game. It's not for everyone but then I don't think anyone is suggesting it is. I do think it's worth trying and making up one's own mine, rather than determining the quality of a game based on the number of players.
The purpose of the post was to cover the three points. We all know each one HOWEVER NONE OF THEM ARE VALID ANYMORE :
1) Launch-era hard feelings- It's all purely an on going three year hate feeling some can't get over. And by saying that and I can only guess without doing some major research back in Vanguard mmorpg.com post that it's the same posters over and over again. This is most likely not the majority, but a select group here with a vendetta of hate.
2) The lack of development- Yes, were getting no updates. I feel as if this should only be a small pill to swallow. ITS ALREADY A FULL GAME, WITH ONLY MINOR BUGS. The game is already bigger than FF11 and 5x larger than FF14, Champions Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, City of Heros, DAOC, Rift,SWG, and most every game on the list of about 100 mmo's. Bugs and coding is for the most fixed. It has no more bugs than EQ2, and If you have computer problems, they can easly be over come by changing from " Balanced " to " High Performance ".
3) Low population- This is the least problem of all !!!!........Yes it is !!!!.......I've made countless topics here on mmorpg.com about the low population.
Every mmo gives you a Social Panel.....For some odd reason no one uses them for it's intended purpose TO FIND PEOPLE. Why is this so hard to understand and use ? No one ever uses it. You can search the entire game of vanguard, and any other mmo by level and class. Need a level 22 healer ? Click on the Social Panel >Find> Advanced find. Type in 20-24 >Healer drop down box > Search.........Bam.... Your now looking at 9 healers of what your looking for. Ask with a /tell if they would like to come with your group. Just be nice. I've been doing this in mmo's for three years, 70% of them come.
People are amazed at how fast I can get a group together, and I tell them. I'm trying to spread the word on easy solution of a built in feature of any mmo. YET No one on mmorpg.com can understand. My only guess could be that people come to this site to act Superior and to tell people what to do instead of learning something.
Vanguard's low population can have advantages as people are looking for friends, even Vets. Vanguards community is by far the best of any other mmo, and I've played most all of them. Why am I sticking up for Vanguard ?...Because it's the only game that does not suck !
9 healers on within my level range and 70% of them willing to come help me? Please share what you are smoking. It might work like this at the high levels but it certainly does not at the lower ones, and that's where first impressions are made.
Vanguard is dead. No patches in 2 years. No players. EQ2 has more content than VG and EQ2 is definitely not dead unlike VG. I am not sure if that game even has 1k players ;D
The OP is either a troll or he's delusional ^^^
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