Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Azeroth "Doomsday" Daily

2»

Comments

  • Siris23Siris23 Member UncommonPosts: 387

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23

    Originally posted by ichimarunico

    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because the achievements and progress that they made will now be possible by mouthbreathing monkeys with down syndrome. At least wait until T13 to make T11 pugguble in full greens...

     Once again who cares, the hardcore/skilled players will be working on T12 progression and probably won't give T11 a second thought, and the achieve junkies should have their heroic achieves to be proud of (heroic modes are not being nerfed).

    If achievements are the only lasting 'reward' hardcore gamers have to look forward to for spending countless hours clearing the exact same content over and over again, only to have "scrubs" faceroll their way through it next patch... I think you have your answer as to why people care.

     There are no lasting rewards in mmos, just constant progression.

    Rewards are only good up to the next patch, and then you are give a new set of rewards to chase after and the old rewards don't mean jack.

  • 69Cuda69Cuda Member Posts: 251

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    This is what they do every time a new Tier is released... This is not something new.  Every time this happens people freak out and cancel their subs.  Yet WoW continues to live on.

     Actually they didn't do this until wrath pretty much. My complaint is not that someone else can do it easier. It's that the content is no longer relevant hence the nerfs to it. When people in BC were raiding BT there were still groups in kara and it was still relevant content.

     The gear gap is so large now from tier to tier blizz pretty much HAS to nerf it down so you can scream thu it (if doing it at all) so you can move to the "relevant" content. Which has since degenrated into the current thing of mouthbreathers just get it free while I worked for it argument. (Which I don't subscribe too see above)

     I don't play Wow anymore so I personally could care less. I raided from the ZG for DKP days until I got Nef (cata nef) down and simply burned out and quit. Unless Blizzard can make wow pyhsically have sex with me I will never go back due to simple burn out. Been there done that mode.

     Honestly what I find interesting in comparison to the complaints that were thrown around in the past you could really tell people were angry or happy etc. Anger and happiness with something show passion about something. What I am seeing lately about WoW is really just indifferance. AS a bussiness when I see anger and fanboyism you could say its a good thing overall because your customers are passionate about your product. When they become indifferant it is a pretty scary bussiness environment to operate in.

     As a final note to the "you will be back in xx months" no I wont. I have left and come back before but this time is differant. When the wow talking points are far more engaging content than the game itself.... I will be doing the Single player games until something new comes along thats worth playing. If there isnt anything worth playing then I just wont play anything than playing the same ole same ole.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    They are toning down T11 raids, so they are more accessible as most still haven't experienced them anywhere near fully.   This is so more have access to the new T12 content, which is also being introduced in 4.2.

     

    Raiding guilds can move on to completing T12, with the majority won't be able to do, but at least they'll be able to have fun with T11.  Seriously what do T11 raids mean to raiders, when they are a lower tier.   Lets those who struggled with it have access.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by rygard49

    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

    It takes a very fragile ego to resent someone else for having the same things that you have. When it's a non-tangible, virtual item that practically no one in the real world cares about, it really magnifies how ridiculous that jealousy is.

    I understand that it's something people care about. They've put time and effort into achievements and gear, but just because someone else is getting the same reward a bit easier doesn't diminish your accomplishment, and it doesn't take away the fact that you had that gear for longer.

    Keep in mind, you'll be done clearing the new content way before these other people finish the old stuff you've done already. So you can take pride in the new accomplishments that they won't be able to tackle until it's made easier for them again.

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Siris23

    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by Siris23


    Originally posted by ichimarunico


    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because the achievements and progress that they made will now be possible by mouthbreathing monkeys with down syndrome. At least wait until T13 to make T11 pugguble in full greens...

     Once again who cares, the hardcore/skilled players will be working on T12 progression and probably won't give T11 a second thought, and the achieve junkies should have their heroic achieves to be proud of (heroic modes are not being nerfed).

    If achievements are the only lasting 'reward' hardcore gamers have to look forward to for spending countless hours clearing the exact same content over and over again, only to have "scrubs" faceroll their way through it next patch... I think you have your answer as to why people care.

     There are no lasting rewards in mmos, just constant progression.

    Rewards are only good up to the next patch, and then you are give a new set of rewards to chase after and the old rewards don't mean jack.

    Yes and no.

    For themepark MMOs, yes that's the trend. Not so much for Sandbox MMOs. Even so, progression in other MMOs is far more gradual, and in many cases past content is still relevant and useful to run. In WoW, the last top end-game tier is almost literally turned into the welfare epics the next patch, and the content it was from becomes laughably easy.

    At least for other MMOs, and oldschool WoW, the power curve wasn't so ridiculous that every new tier of content completely pissed on the last tier of content and made it completely irrlelevant. In part because you still had to do previous tiers to get to the current tier.

  • Short-StrawShort-Straw Member Posts: 422

    Haven't played in awhile. Just kind of interesting to watch the beginning of the end.

    image

  • Siris23Siris23 Member UncommonPosts: 387

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by rygard49

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

    It takes a very fragile ego to resent someone else for having the same things that you have. When it's a non-tangible, virtual item that practically no one in the real world cares about, it really magnifies how ridiculous that jealousy is.

    I understand that it's something people care about. They've put time and effort into achievements and gear, but just because someone else is getting the same reward a bit easier doesn't diminish your accomplishment, and it doesn't take away the fact that you had that gear for longer.

    Keep in mind, you'll be done clearing the new content way before these other people finish the old stuff you've done already. So you can take pride in the new accomplishments that they won't be able to tackle until it's made easier for them again.

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     You do it because you want a challenge.

    If you don't want (or can't handle) a challenge then yes, you are better off sitting around waiting for old content to be nerfed or until you over gear it or you out level it when a new expantion comes out.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Member UncommonPosts: 1,003

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     Because its fun?

     

    I mean thats why people raid, right? At least thats what they used to say.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Siris23

    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by rygard49


    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

    It takes a very fragile ego to resent someone else for having the same things that you have. When it's a non-tangible, virtual item that practically no one in the real world cares about, it really magnifies how ridiculous that jealousy is.

    I understand that it's something people care about. They've put time and effort into achievements and gear, but just because someone else is getting the same reward a bit easier doesn't diminish your accomplishment, and it doesn't take away the fact that you had that gear for longer.

    Keep in mind, you'll be done clearing the new content way before these other people finish the old stuff you've done already. So you can take pride in the new accomplishments that they won't be able to tackle until it's made easier for them again.

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     You do it because you want a challenge.

    If you don't want (or can't handle) a challenge then yes, you are better off sitting around wait for old content to be nerf or until you over gear it or you out level it when a new expantion comes out.

    You're assuming that WoW's raid encounters are "challenging". The fights are more about having the appropriate iLevel of gear and figuring out the gimmick of the encounter.

    At least in vanilla WoW those hours spent getting raid gear in one tier are carried into the next tier. In wrath and cata you can start a new character, level them to 85, do heroics for a couple weeks and have enough gear to jump into the latest raid tier, all thanks to the ridiculous gear inflation and welfare epic syndrom.

    It's zero sum progression when every content patch hits reset on your progression.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Marcus-

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     Because its fun?

     

    I mean thats why people raid, right? At least thats what they used to say.

    It used to be. When your raid progression carried over to the next tier and didn't feel like a waste of time, it was more enjoyable knowing that you were actually progressing through content. These days a character with two weeks at max level can jump into the beginning of the top raid tier thanks to turning the last tier into welfare epics.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286

    It's the same thing they did in WotLK as well. Either they nerf the encounters, or you collect better gear, or both. Allowing folks to stroll through outdated content doesn't have a direct impact on the few hardcore elite, some of them believe it does because of their self-absorbed egos.

    If you clear the content early you get to enjoy the gear you obtained for longer, and get the satisfaction of clearing out a challenging encounter. Anything after the fact is unimportant.

    This has been how blizzard has been doing things now for nearly 3 years. Is it really a shock? People just need to get over themselves.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Member UncommonPosts: 1,003

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Marcus-

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     Because its fun?

     

    I mean thats why people raid, right? At least thats what they used to say.

    It used to be. When your raid progression carried over to the next tier and didn't feel like a waste of time, it was more enjoyable knowing that you were actually progressing through content. These days a character with two weeks at max level can jump into the beginning of the top raid tier thanks to turning the last tier into welfare epics.

     Sounds to me like you're more concerned with the gear aspect than the actual raiding, but i may be wrong..

     

    but then again,  i don't raid   image

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

     IMO, with the accomplishment system for endgame content, they should have 4 levels of the accomplishment.  The gold medal  for the original release (assumed hardest mode) of a raid, silver medal after the first nerfing, bronze for the second nerfing and finally a plain old one for when it's nerfed due to a new tier release.  It gives the epeeners something to showoff their deeds back when it was tough and still allows the regular people something.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    Originally posted by mm0wiggins

    Originally posted by Siris23


     

     Once again who cares, the hardcore/skilled players will be working on T12 progression and probably won't give T11 a second thought, and the achieve junkies should have their heroic achieves to be proud of (heroic modes are not being nerfed).

    What's so skillful about following scripted directions in a raid you've run 20 times before already?

    So there are games such as Eve or MO or something where the NPCs in PvE require skill to kill?  Or do you stand there and kill them with no needs to do anything else?

    Of course, hard modes are not easy, and it's silly to think otherwise.  It requires skill to do the full 100% damage of your class.  It requires skill to keep that damage up when required to move/dodge things/live.  It requires skill to know when to precast that big heal, to unload lots of healing fast at the cost of mana.  It requires skill to hold a bunch of mobs attention with new ones coming in to grab.

    But no, PvE in other types of games takes more skill. Rofl.

    I do find it funny how some people call PvE in Warcraft "Dumbed down", yet they play games where the PvE consists of the mobs "Standing there meleeing you, or the mobs standing there shooting you from range."  There are plenty of mobs, mini boss, or groups of mobs that do special abilities in WoW that require a hell of a lot more then most games out.

     

    As to this post, there are a few things about it.  I think it's cool to nerf content for those that do not have the skill nor time to complete it.  It allows players to see content.  It does not help players get better to beat harder content, of course.

    But then, opening up more of the game is good for blizzard.  It keeps many more people interested now that they can do the content.  But those that did the content when it was harder, don't think those they will do it when it's easier should be allowed the same items/achievements/etc.

  • Siris23Siris23 Member UncommonPosts: 387

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

     IMO, with the accomplishment system for endgame content, they should have 4 levels of the accomplishment.  The gold medal  for the original release (assumed hardest mode) of a raid, silver medal after the first nerfing, bronze for the second nerfing and finally a plain old one for when it's nerfed due to a new tier release.  It gives the epeeners something to showoff their deeds back when it was tough and still allows the regular people something.

     Um, the hardest mode isn't being nerfed. Only normal mode (easy mode) is getting the nerf.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Originally posted by Aadien

    WoW has always done this, he got butt hurt and left. I give him 3 months or less and he will be back.

    I find it funny that some people are so cock sure they can predict someone ELSE's actions. People leave WoW permanently all the time. You act as though no one has ever PERMANENTLY left the game. I can outright NAME people who have, and I'm sure most people on these boards can as well. If he comes back, well then "woohoo." If he doesn't return.....same "woohoo" for that. What fucking difference does it really make?  But to act like you KNOW what someone else is going to do is just nonsense.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Originally posted by ichimarunico

    Originally posted by mm0wiggins


    Originally posted by Siris23


     

     Once again who cares, the hardcore/skilled players will be working on T12 progression and probably won't give T11 a second thought, and the achieve junkies should have their heroic achieves to be proud of (heroic modes are not being nerfed).

    What's so skillful about following scripted directions in a raid you've run 20 times before already?

    -rolleyes- What's so skillful about pointing a gun and pulling a trigger? What's so skillful about performing a song you've performed 20 times before? What's so skillful about... so on and so forth. High end PvE takes skill in games where it's challenging. I'm sorry. It's true.

    Shenanigans.

    High end PvE (raiding) only takes skill while you're learning the dance moves and governs how fast you master them.  There's a reason why raids end up on "farm mode".  The challenge is in climbing the mountain, especially blind when you do it for the first time, not in sitting on your fat ass once you reach the summit.  Once you learn the dance though, the only trick is getting enough people facing the same direction at the same time.  It's an issue of logistics, not talent.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Siris23

    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

     IMO, with the accomplishment system for endgame content, they should have 4 levels of the accomplishment.  The gold medal  for the original release (assumed hardest mode) of a raid, silver medal after the first nerfing, bronze for the second nerfing and finally a plain old one for when it's nerfed due to a new tier release.  It gives the epeeners something to showoff their deeds back when it was tough and still allows the regular people something.

     Um, the hardest mode isn't being nerfed. Only normal mode (easy mode) is getting the nerf.

    Not all raiders get to do all of the hardmode content?

    Seems like the middle class always gets screwed, whether it's the economic scale or on the casual/hardcore scale lol.

  • catlanacatlana Member Posts: 1,677

    Originally posted by Aadien

    WoW has always done this, he got butt hurt and left. I give him 3 months or less and he will be back.

    Three words to confirm this, Pre nerf Muru. Shaman stacking, drums, glaives, you needed everything. We and 97% of the rest of the guilds did not get him until the nerfs. Blizzard was better ablout slowly nerfing content instead of this massive nerf across the board incoming thou. 

  • mm0wigginsmm0wiggins Member Posts: 270

    Originally posted by Swanea

    Originally posted by mm0wiggins


    Originally posted by Siris23


     

     Once again who cares, the hardcore/skilled players will be working on T12 progression and probably won't give T11 a second thought, and the achieve junkies should have their heroic achieves to be proud of (heroic modes are not being nerfed).

    What's so skillful about following scripted directions in a raid you've run 20 times before already?

    So there are games such as Eve or MO or something where the NPCs in PvE require skill to kill?  Or do you stand there and kill them with no needs to do anything else?

    LMAO!    ok buddy...

    Go into EVE and run some Incursion content....   or go into a Wormhole and clear out a Sleeper site....  or even, go to a plain old x/10 rated complex (3 or above) and see how far some spell rotation and dance move gets you....  

    The point I was touching on with my remark about the lack of skill it takes to Raid in WoW is simply about the change to the raid content that this OP is actually about.     WoW has done this since BC came out, and people complain everytime, but they keep their subs up.    The complaints go unnoticed as long as the subs keep rollin' in. 

    All i'm saying is... Blizzard constantly nerfs and screws with everything in WoW to try and keep up with their casual crowd's desire to have an easy, fun, child-safe game, and this is nothing new.    So, if you, or anyone who still plays that game thinks there's something wrong with that, cancel your account.   That's the only way to show them that they're doing something wrong.  Otherwise, they'll keep on thinking they're doing it right.    

    (Doing it right doesn't mean "making more money than other game companies" either, so don't start with the financial talk.   Doing it right is creating a name for yourself as the Best in the eyes of the community, not your investors.)

    This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Marcus-


    Originally posted by Ceridith

    You're interpreting the disdain backwards. It's not necessarily about resentment or ego of those after. Rather, at least for me, it's more a matter of "why should I spend several hours farming gear in a lower end of a raid so I can spend hours trying to down the high end of the raid, when in a few months it will be nerfed down so it can be defeated by a group taking a leisurely stroll?"

    To put it another way. Why should I bother spending countless hours doing something that will be doable with far less effort in a few months?

    It's along the lines of climbing Everest a few months before an escalator to the top is installed. Sure you could still do it to say you did, but most people would much rather just not bother and wait for the escalator. Which is the point, why bother with 'end-game' content when today's current 'end-game' becomes tommorow's walk in the park?

     Because its fun?

     

    I mean thats why people raid, right? At least thats what they used to say.

    It used to be. When your raid progression carried over to the next tier and didn't feel like a waste of time, it was more enjoyable knowing that you were actually progressing through content. These days a character with two weeks at max level can jump into the beginning of the top raid tier thanks to turning the last tier into welfare epics.

    Think of it this way. Most games come with a difficulty setting for their computer opponents: Easy through Hardcore, right? You buy a game and you're not good enough to play at the Hardcore level, so you set it on Easy. You get the same rewards. This is no different.

    And come on, dude. You don't have to socialize with these people. You don't need to associate with them or participate with them in any way. You have your own guild that does your own thing. All that should matter to you is your accomplishment with them as a team. Why do you care what people you'll likely never talk to have access to? Why do you think your accomplishments are cheapened just because they have the same gear?

    Your'e playing a game. Stop being so concerned with what pisses you off and start figuring out what makes it fun. If it's not fun, stop playing. Either way... stop whining that "scrubs" stole your loot.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23


    Originally posted by waynejr2


    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

     IMO, with the accomplishment system for endgame content, they should have 4 levels of the accomplishment.  The gold medal  for the original release (assumed hardest mode) of a raid, silver medal after the first nerfing, bronze for the second nerfing and finally a plain old one for when it's nerfed due to a new tier release.  It gives the epeeners something to showoff their deeds back when it was tough and still allows the regular people something.

     Um, the hardest mode isn't being nerfed. Only normal mode (easy mode) is getting the nerf.

    Not all raiders get to do all of the hardmode content?

    Seems like the middle class always gets screwed, whether it's the economic scale or on the casual/hardcore scale lol.

     

    Hence why T11 is being made easier.  

     

    Raiders will move onto T12, which is being added at the same time.  Something that was omitted from the OP.  Others can gear for hardmode T11 and/or T12. 

     

    Top tier end game isn't being made easier.  Its moving to new content.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by Siris23

    I really don't get this mentality.

    No one who cares about raid difficulty is going to be running the tier 11 normal-mode raids when 4.2 hits so why do they care if old normal-modes get nerfed?

    Because it diminishes the accomplishment.

    Kind of like how these days every kid is given a trophy, even when they lose. Kind of diminishes the point of winning a trophy when people who didn't do as well or try as hard get the same.

    It's bad enough that the gear is going to be handed out like candy on halloween from facerolling heroics.

    What's the point of spending hours each week trying to clear content and gear up to be able to clear the current top end content, when in a few months you'll be able to stroll in there and faceroll through everything? The answer is exactly why people are starting to get fed up with WoW.

     IMO, with the accomplishment system for endgame content, they should have 4 levels of the accomplishment.  The gold medal  for the original release (assumed hardest mode) of a raid, silver medal after the first nerfing, bronze for the second nerfing and finally a plain old one for when it's nerfed due to a new tier release.  It gives the epeeners something to showoff their deeds back when it was tough and still allows the regular people something.

    One of the biggest mistakes  blizzard made with achievments was to remove 10/25 man seperate achievments, I like your ideas about the multi levels, but the bottom line is blizzard is targetting casual players, casual doesnt want to see an achievment that they cannot achieve etc (and to that end it is no mistake i guess)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • FaelanFaelan Member UncommonPosts: 819

    I'm starting to feel sorry for Blizzard even though I'm not anywhere near being a Blizzard fanboy. At this stage, it doesn't matter what they do. There's going to be some group of players jumping at their throat screaming bloody murder and predicting the end of WoW. I guess that's what happens when you let the pendulum swing all over the place.

    I am, however, not surprised with what I'm seeing in 4.2 as such. It strikes me as an attempt to win back some of the 600K that left. With the raid nerfs in place, easier access to better gear and more solo content, casual players should have a bit more to do, no? And let's be honest here, there are more casual that handcore players. If they win back two casual players for every hardcore player who leaves in anger because his precious gear and achivements are now much easier to get, then they still end up with more profit than before. But those are big ifs I must admit. Even with those changes in place, Cata is nowhere near the casual heaven that WotLK was and people don't like constantly having your gameplay change on you. It could backfire instead. Either way, I find it interesting to watch Blizzard trying to wiggle their way out of this. Now, if only they sold popcorn... image

    I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Sign In or Register to comment.