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(MMOExposing) WoW CAT's downfall

13

Comments

  • catlanacatlana Member Posts: 1,677

    To the OP, the write up was pretty good. I had a lot of friends who enjoyed casual pvp. They are not great at pvp, but in Vanilla & BC, you did not need to be great to get rewards. Since, Wrath and rating requirements a good number of non arena peeps have pretty poor gear.  Facing poorly geared folks makes pvping boring.  

  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152

    I stopped reading at this part

    The Problem with WoW:CAT is the (1)PvP is now destroyed, while at the same time,(2) Blizzard is making PvE less and less casual friendly.

    The pvp part is fairly spot on. But to say PVE is less casual friendly is like pissing in the wind. The last two expansions have taken 99% of the challange out of all PVE content. They basicly hold your hand all the way to 85 and beyound. Every patch makes the heroics and endgame raids easier and easier by giving you stronger and stronger buffs when you enter them.

    So to say PVE is not casual friendly is just showing that your plain stupid / ranting on the game and talking about something you know nothing about.

    If anything the reasion people are leaving WoW is because its too easy. Gone are the early days of having to spend weeks learning a raid in order to beat it. Not its basicly first time enter and you know whats going to happen. Its just a matter of not being stupid is all.

  • spiritsespiritse Member Posts: 67

    The reason WoW died a death with me was Cata...

    they brought out an expansion that sundered the world, ok can live with that. they sundered and changed the world a week i think it was before release (this should have happened on the night of release with the servers going down at a certain time after a big fight had taken place).

    It felt like the expansion only brought a few new area's and 5 levels.... the new race combos were brought in before cata went live as again it was suppose to be something with cata expansion.

    The dungeon drops from DM and other dungeons they gave heroic mode, used the old items and graphics amd just stuck higher stats on them, I felt like they made no real effot in designing new items and gear.

    The only way to improve gear was to add higher and higher stats, but they didnt add an extra 10 or 20 int, stam they went overboard to +300.

    The open Pvp was fun, but now BG's and res are in game it becomes more boring than anything else.

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  • timeraidertimeraider Member UncommonPosts: 852

    thought this tread was about feral druids XD but its about a guy who got killed by a feral druid :P

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  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,522

    yea right, wow is dieing, only 10 million subs!

    so basically you say all mmos are dead, rightie? :)

     

     

     

    next.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • EzhaeEzhae Member UncommonPosts: 735

    Dear OP. You are wrong. Very wrong.

     

    PvP kept vanilla going? I'm sorry, on both servers i played in vanilla, the first one and the second i switched to after PvP-RP were introduced there was 1, literally one Alliance group doing PvP despite server population being medium to high. AV happened 1-2 times a week at tops and only if we actually organized it and talked with horde players to queue up for it. 

     

    Sure not many people got to do end game PvE as well, moslty because 40 man raids were not the most accessible part of the game. You needed 40 people to get anywhere, plenty of guilds don't even have that many people, not to mention that many regulars at top level, with decent gear. 

    There was however loads of people raiding Stratholme and UBRS, later on ZG when it came out as it was smaller scale, that's where mos tof lvl 60ties hanged out. Apart fromt hat majority of WoW players never reached 60 level, they make alts all the time, hang around high 40 ties. 

     

    Cata lost those subs because of Blizzard not providing enough meaningful content. Heroic raids don't count. They are not new content, they are contentyou just did with few new gimmicks. Majority of semi-hardcore raid guilds don't care about heroic raids because they are not fun. It's challenge for sake of challenge and nothing more. Just compare numbers of guilds that cleared Bastion of Twilight versus number of peopel that killed heroic mode bosses. The difference is huge. 

    And then you have Blizzard realising new raid tier, with 7 bosses. 7 bosses. Other raid tiers had double that. Sometimes, like in TBC, they were even split between 2 different raid instances offering some variation (Kara/Gruul/Magth, TK/SSC and BT/Hyjal). ICC had themed wings and came with 3 5mans on top of that.

    Single raid instance with 7 bosses is just not enough for 6 months since Cata came out. Simple as that. 

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

    I keep hope, they will upgrade Cata...

    I loved WoW so much, but can't pay just to wait for party or make hard, but same stuff every day. Beside Cata had nothing much to offer me, so my fun ended & sub followed.

    But if content will be added, I'm ready to renew it.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657

    Originally posted by Foomerang

    This guy constantly creates new topics then leaves. He rarely sticks around to discuss anything. Why would someone take the time to create a topic, present your point of view, request a discussion, then never really bother to reply? Before you know it, hes creating a new thread about something else. I wonder, whats the point?

    He's getting better. He at least puts some personal effort in now rather than posting a controversial thread header and then copy and pasting a link.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    If blizzard can't see whats wrong with cataclysm then they deserve to have Wow become a second class MMO. So many obvious knee jerk design decisions made every patch you would think the devs have schizophrenia.

    I could go on and on about what Wow needs to come back and what needs to be changed to make Wow work. But if the Wow players leaving can't wake up a game company, then my puny opinion wont as well. But for the sake of causing myself pain I will.

     

    1) Put back the hybrid system and expand on it. As of right now, you have a closed and limited system to switch up game play style. Why can't shamans off tank? they were good tanks level 40 vanilla, but that got removed. make it so we have diverse options thats is immersion.

    Totally Agree, More options are always better.

    2) Remove flying mounts from azeroth.

    And not Outlands or Northrend?, the problems that exibit from this are still current in those locations. Personally i can accept flying mounts in a global capacity, they have been in game for quite some time now.

    3) Take that crappy crafting system and make it super complex and make it so that what you make if you put the hard work in can be equal with end game items/gear.

    Why raid when you can craft the same gear, Saves you heaps of time right? what would you do with said gear once you have it? Raid? Solo? how long will you play for if you have the best gear and no room to improve?

    4) Remove guild leveling. You made a guild a single entity and penalize players who devote time into the guild that so when they get kicked or leave the guild, rep gets reset. You should have made it so a player of high value even if he leaves or gets kicked can carry with some prestige with them to the next guild. Plus wheres guild housing? Plus just remove it.small guilds will never get the people to make it to Glvl3 in a human lifetime.

    I dont like the guild leveling system. I think if they added a feature to show which guilds you were previously involved with, (Simmilar to eve online) that would complely solve that problem.

    5) remove heroics or change them to be more casual freindly. take restrictions off of LFG and allow high levels to be able to help lower level groups out. make all cross server tools choose from your server first then go xcross to fill the group out. encourage server specific rewards for people who do home server only groups.

    Heroics are hardmodes, Making them easier kinda defeats the point does it not? they are accessable to anyone that meets the level requirement, but like everything competitive some people dont have the skills at the time to complete their goals. only through preperation and "training" can you improve on ones skills.

    I get the feeling that these days Players only see group members as tools to get there currency or loot. they dont care where they come from as long as they are competent to get the job done.

    6) Stop rehasing old content. it's obvious to older players you lack the vision to add new stuff. You make 300 millions dollars a months take 4 of it and add devs to just make item/armor/weapons misc

    Yep.

    7) Stop with all nerfing policys for classes. Just becuase someone or a grooup complains doesnt mean you change an entire class to become useless every other patch.

    Yep.

    8) remove battlegrounds or make them legacys BGs that dont reward nothing but fun. make world PVP and warzones the way to go. Remove arena and reward those that played with a special title like grandmarshal had, then never make that mistake again. focus on world PVP or warzones.

    The current generation will never go for that, They want the pvp currency as fast as possible. so much so, that their implimenting same faction battlegrounds to improve que times..

    9) remove resillence from the game.

    Yeah, only to be replaced by stat inbalance in order to win.

    10) Allow crafters to destruct item/weapons/armors and extract the magical atrributes from the them to make upgrade componets for new weapons.

    Cool idea. but doesnt disenchantment do the same thing?

    11) upgrade your dam game engine. It's very long in the tooth and can't handle large amounts of people in smaller areas.upgrade it for the new warzones and world PVP i suggested above.

    Seems slowly they are, WIth removed support for "old" opengl, and introduction of new features such as realtime shaddow support and shader technology.

    12) add random weekly world events. not talking about rifts well like rift, but add some excitement gets those asshats off those flying mounts in capital citys. make it so if your afk hovering above the auction house, a group of insane dragons attack the city anything to break up the boredom of ques.

    mmm dragons of nightmare memories.. Cataclysam is the perfect stage for some events with the unstable nature of the landmass and such.

    Not much else who cares right hehe.

    I dont play anymore, And personally i think the game is too far gone to change. I used to think that it was the community that was bringing the game down, but now lately it seems that Blizzard-Activision just dont care.

    Obviously the community cannot come to a consensus about what they want out of the game because of their diverse opinions.Thus, people who make the most noise are usually heard.

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  • ZinzanZinzan Member UncommonPosts: 1,351

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    They said the same things when Rift was released, Aion, GW, LOTRO etc etc....the mythical WoW killers!!

    You honestly think TOR will take 2.5 million players from WoW....seriously? Everyone i know who was hyped about TOR has since decided against buying it at release, ok this is as much an indictment of how bad most games are at release these days as how TOR is looking currently, but still.

    You can make similar claims for other games, but WoW has always been a step ahead of everyone else. What, 8 years in and 11 million subs?  That isn't the kind of game which dies in a few months. When is this "end" you speak of when WoW will be "down" to 3 million EU/US subs (more than any other game curently has i reckon)? 2030?

    I'll wager you TOR loses 30-50% of it's initial subs within the first 6 months of release, same as most new releases and WoW will still be going strong.

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  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    They said the same things when Rift was released, Aion, GW, LOTRO etc etc....the mythical WoW killers!!

    You honestly think TOR will take 2.5 million players from WoW....seriously? Everyone i know who was hyped about TOR has since decided against buying it at release, ok this is as much an indictment of how bad most games are at release these days as how TOR is looking currently, but still.

    You can make similar claims for other games, but WoW has always been a step ahead of everyone else. What, 8 years in and 11 million subs?  That isn't the kind of game which dies in a few months. When is this "end" you speak of when WoW will be "down" to 3 million EU/US subs (more than any other game curently has i reckon)? 2030?

    I'll wager you TOR loses 30-50% of it's initial subs within the first 6 months of release, same as most new releases and WoW will still be going strong.

     As a game player is this really what you want, playing a game that is 6 years old and hoping new games fail?

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  • paroxysmparoxysm Member Posts: 437

    I was sifting through the post by Ghostcrawler about why some changes are being made in 4.2.  I had to read it because I thought they were going to actually answer it with logic and data support.  Instead, I saw more "feelings" and reasons that did not match their general design ideas.

    Here is a good example of what I mean:

     

    "If a class is performing poorly except in the hands of one percent of the population, that’s a problem, but it’s not an excuse for that class to be overpowered when played by that one percent, especially in PvP. In PvP, your group composition (whether your whole Arena team or just the participants in a given fight in a Battleground) matters enormously. In PvE, the encounter specifics matter enormously (and we’re about to get a new cast of characters in Firelands). As a result, it can be challenging to decide which numbers are the right numbers. It doesn’t make sense to balance PvE damage solely around Patchwerk-style target dummies and assume everything else is a gimmick. Likewise it doesn’t make sense to buff and nerf for each individual encounter. (Say a boss buffs casters -- do you then nerf casters as a consequence?)"

     

    Now follow that with:

     

    "Shadow was doing too much DPS in PvE when multiple DoTs was favored, so we nerfed their DoT damage. We want Shadow to benefit from multi-DoTs, but Shadow’s damage was just too high under those conditions. We buffed Shadow cast-time spells to compensate."

     

    So, even though they built encounters that had a noticeable advantage for multi-dotting, they don't like that a class that can multi-dot can excell at it?  With the change stated, that will decrease their damage in multi-dot situations to closer to single target with cast time nukes doing more damage to offset the dot nerfs.  Ok, a pve change that unless the encounter has small openings for casting, it should be a mostly damage wash in the confines of what damage they want them to do.  There are at least a couple like that in older content.  What about battlegrounds?  What about arena?  What about world pvp?  Where people actually cc train and interrupt cast nukes.  Were they overpowered there as well?  Or is it another PvE change that has a large impact on PvP that's not talked about or compensated for?

     

    As I've reinforced before on these forums, someone once said the encounter was why Blizzard fails at balancing.  I believed it then, I believe it now.  They need to build smarter encounters instead of constantly changing classes/specs up based on the current raid tier.  Instead all that I see is complete contradictions between statement and action because of a few encounters that will be moved past and the characters left with the hinderances they had placed on them over it.

  • TurdinatorTurdinator Member Posts: 210

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    They said the same things when Rift was released, Aion, GW, LOTRO etc etc....the mythical WoW killers!!

     

    Rift is doing well. Aion has more subs than Warcraft worldwide. GW2 and SW:ToR are two of the most anticipated games coming out.   Yeah, I think all of them are/will be chipping away at Warcraft's 3.4 million subscriber base.

     

    *Were the EQ people this angry when they slowly had to realize that their game wasn't top dog anymore?

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS:
    TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    Hear, hear, interesting times indeed image

     

    I'd put ArcheAge on that list too, with somewhat later EQ Next and WoD.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • xmentyxmenty Member UncommonPosts: 716

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS:
    TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    Hear, hear, interesting times indeed image

     I'd put ArcheAge on that list too, with somewhat later EQ Next and WoD.

      

      Hope all the new MMO put a huge dent on WOW subs so Blizz can really start to innovate on their MMO instead of them trying to innovate ways to suck more money from players lol. image

     

      

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,648

    I disagree with all the doomsayers.

    I think you all have a wicked case of nostalgia.  The game is the best its ever been.  However, that is entirely opinion and conjecture as is this entire thread.

    I just think its funny this thread accuses WoW of being less casual friendly now when I see so many people complain the reverse is true.

  • ZinzanZinzan Member UncommonPosts: 1,351

    Originally posted by Turdinator

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    They said the same things when Rift was released, Aion, GW, LOTRO etc etc....the mythical WoW killers!!

     

    Rift is doing well. Aion has more subs than Warcraft worldwide. GW2 and SW:ToR are two of the most anticipated games coming out.   Yeah, I think all of them are/will be chipping away at Warcraft's 3.4 million subscriber base.

     

    *Were the EQ people this angry when they slowly had to realize that their game wasn't top dog anymore?

    Well, firstly were talking EU/US. Where does the 3.4 million come from? Im assuming this is EA/US subs you have come across somewhere. So why comment on this and in the same sentance talk about Aions global subs base. It's a bit skewed as an argument.

    Also, im angry? Erm, no, i don't think so. Just because i post my view that isn't doomsaying, trolling or fanboisms im instantly touted as angry? If you have tried to edit my post to make it seem this way, it's a bit of a miss tbh.

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  • ZinzanZinzan Member UncommonPosts: 1,351

    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Originally posted by tuppe99

    I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.



    Here is my prediction:



    Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.



    Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.



    In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.



    Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.



    PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

    They said the same things when Rift was released, Aion, GW, LOTRO etc etc....the mythical WoW killers!!

    You honestly think TOR will take 2.5 million players from WoW....seriously? Everyone i know who was hyped about TOR has since decided against buying it at release, ok this is as much an indictment of how bad most games are at release these days as how TOR is looking currently, but still.

    You can make similar claims for other games, but WoW has always been a step ahead of everyone else. What, 8 years in and 11 million subs?  That isn't the kind of game which dies in a few months. When is this "end" you speak of when WoW will be "down" to 3 million EU/US subs (more than any other game curently has i reckon)? 2030?

    I'll wager you TOR loses 30-50% of it's initial subs within the first 6 months of release, same as most new releases and WoW will still be going strong.

     As a game player is this really what you want, playing a game that is 6 years old and hoping new games fail?

    While i believe many new releases will fail to live up to the hype and the doom-and-gloom merchants are over reacting as usual, that doesn't mean i WANT them to fail :)

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  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly Member UncommonPosts: 734

    I keep missing WoW, what nice game it WAS.

    But so far nothing much added to content of Cata, so my sub goes for other game.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • RazeronRazeron Member Posts: 180

    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    I keep missing WoW, what nice game it WAS.

    But so far nothing much added to content of Cata, so my sub goes for other game.

     

     

    Lucky.

     

    I wish I could find another MMO worth the hard drive space, but Blizavision is going the route of $oE with EQ back in the OoW days.

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    I appreciate that you tried to present your (obvious) rant in a controlled manner, however you are so dead wrong I couldn't even finish reading your post.

     

    You start off by saying that the original pull of the game was the PvP, AV this and that, yet WoW didn't even release with any BGs. They didn't come till much later. People did world PvP back then (the mill, stv etc).

     

    Then you start pulling numbers like only 11% beat Black Temple. How can you possibly say that the rest were PvPing? Your conceptual skills are simply awful. It just means that the rest of the people were STILL PvEing, only they simply didn't get to the last boss.

     

    Same deal with vanilla, a fraction of the community (I believe like 3%) got to even set foot in Naxx 40. That odesn't mean the other 97% were PvPing, they were doing PvE as well trying to get to Naxx. This is also the reason why they re-released Naxx in TBC.

    As far as PvPing is concerned people didn't really start grinding honor regularly until they turned honor into a currency instead of a ranking. Once they took out ranks for PvP, that's when PvP started being more main stream.

     

     

    Hell, in vanilla WoW and for the first half of TBC, PVE Gear was often what was needed to be used for PvP.

  • AusareAusare Member Posts: 850

    Can not say I see the game dying.  Of course people say it has been dying for years now....sounds more like dreams and hopes than facts.

  • paroxysmparoxysm Member Posts: 437

    Originally posted by paroxysm

    I was sifting through the post by Ghostcrawler about why some changes are being made in 4.2.  I had to read it because I thought they were going to actually answer it with logic and data support.  Instead, I saw more "feelings" and reasons that did not match their general design ideas.

    Here is a good example of what I mean:

     

    "If a class is performing poorly except in the hands of one percent of the population, that’s a problem, but it’s not an excuse for that class to be overpowered when played by that one percent, especially in PvP. In PvP, your group composition (whether your whole Arena team or just the participants in a given fight in a Battleground) matters enormously. In PvE, the encounter specifics matter enormously (and we’re about to get a new cast of characters in Firelands). As a result, it can be challenging to decide which numbers are the right numbers. It doesn’t make sense to balance PvE damage solely around Patchwerk-style target dummies and assume everything else is a gimmick. Likewise it doesn’t make sense to buff and nerf for each individual encounter. (Say a boss buffs casters -- do you then nerf casters as a consequence?)"

     

    Now follow that with:

     

    "Shadow was doing too much DPS in PvE when multiple DoTs was favored, so we nerfed their DoT damage. We want Shadow to benefit from multi-DoTs, but Shadow’s damage was just too high under those conditions. We buffed Shadow cast-time spells to compensate."

     

    So, even though they built encounters that had a noticeable advantage for multi-dotting, they don't like that a class that can multi-dot can excell at it?  With the change stated, that will decrease their damage in multi-dot situations to closer to single target with cast time nukes doing more damage to offset the dot nerfs.  Ok, a pve change that unless the encounter has small openings for casting, it should be a mostly damage wash in the confines of what damage they want them to do.  There are at least a couple like that in older content.  What about battlegrounds?  What about arena?  What about world pvp?  Where people actually cc train and interrupt cast nukes.  Were they overpowered there as well?  Or is it another PvE change that has a large impact on PvP that's not talked about or compensated for?

     

    As I've reinforced before on these forums, someone once said the encounter was why Blizzard fails at balancing.  I believed it then, I believe it now.  They need to build smarter encounters instead of constantly changing classes/specs up based on the current raid tier.  Instead all that I see is complete contradictions between statement and action because of a few encounters that will be moved past and the characters left with the hinderances they had placed on them over it.

    Not one comment for or againts this post on here.  No comments that I saw about it for WoW period.  Now, on patch day, people are complaining about it.  Funny stuff.

  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,392

    Apparently, every game on the market right now is bleeding subs. Where are they going?

  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 2,130

    Originally posted by Golelorn

    Apparently, every game on the market right now is bleeding subs. Where are they going?

    Outside for the first time in years would be my guess. image

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