I wouldn't consider AOC a failure, that game turned a profit for sure. WAR could maybe be called a failure though since they had a big budget and a lot of hype. Rift could completely tank down to 100k players and still be a success given the size of the company that made it and how many sales they've had already etc.
P.S Alot of people these days like to look at any mmoRPG that comes out these days and if its decently pretty, is well made, and has the same basic UI most RPGs have these days they call it a clone, but its purely because most people into MMOs these days didnt mess around with MMOs before WoW was around, so they have nothing better to base it on or compare it to, or just dont have enough perception to see that every MMO coming out takes the liked and common themes from every other MMO and uses it themselves.
The newer MMOs you're talking about are clones to me but not because of the UI/gameplay. These 'clones' all lack depth. Depth as in certain races hating each other, not just two warring factions with a few races. Ex. EQ1 - You chose your diety and that determined a lot of things in game, especially the places you could go. Even if you were the saem race sometimes, if you chose Bertoxxulous you weren't going to be using the same vendors as someone with Tunare. It's not that hard. These games just lack depth. Theres no problem with them having the same graphics and UIs. Make a world devs, not a video game.
P.S Alot of people these days like to look at any mmoRPG that comes out these days and if its decently pretty, is well made, and has the same basic UI most RPGs have these days they call it a clone, but its purely because most people into MMOs these days didnt mess around with MMOs before WoW was around, so they have nothing better to base it on or compare it to, or just dont have enough perception to see that every MMO coming out takes the liked and common themes from every other MMO and uses it themselves.
This is pretty backwards. Players who did play in the old days call most of these games clones because they played back when MMOs were more unique. EQ, AO, DAOC, AC, UO etc did not feel anything like each other when you are playing the game. People who didn't play the older MMOs probably don't see them as clones because they don't even realize there is a different way to make these games.
It isn't really about the UI. Rift is more or less WOW with Rifts, the majority of the game feels exactly the same, not really sure how anyone can argue against it being a clone the games are so much alike. Something like AOC I can at least see the argument, but not Rift.
Players who did play in the old days call most of these games clones because they played back when MMOs were more unique. EQ, AO, DAOC, AC, UO etc did not feel anything like each other when you are playing the game. People who didn't play the older MMOs probably don't see them as clones because they don't even realize there is a different way to make these games.
It isn't really about the UI. Rift is more or less WOW with Rifts, the majority of the game feels exactly the same, not really sure how anyone can argue against it being a clone the games are so much alike. Something like AOC I can at least see the argument, but not Rift.
I agree with most of what you said save two points.
1.) It isn't really about the UI. - Okay, it isn't just about the UI, but copying the UI doesn't help.
2.) I haven't been playing mmo's for more than a decade as some of you have. All it takes though, is to play one game that's different, just one good one, and you can appreciate everything that a clone doesn't do.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I don't know about subs or trials or such but what I do know is, in the last week; 5 of my hardcore MMO playing friends tried Rift and bought it. And I know for a fact that 3 of them are REALLY hooked, the other two have much time invested in WoW characters so their saying this is a 'break' period but... I don't know. Personally I think Rift is excellent and I see myself playing for a damn long while. So why not!
Call 'Jinx' if you want but I have a bad feeling about SWTOR. Maybe GW2 though, we'll have to see.
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
Ok I conseed the point about it being very cloneish of wow except two major points. The graphics in Rift are not cartoony and the class system in this game is the best I have seen in any game and blows WOW's system out of the water.
To all those wondering what the rift population currently is and wondering if its going steady or not here is my two cents.I play on Tearfall currently level 47 and have no problem at all getting groups or raids together.The server is one of the more lower pop servers.During primetime it is mostly medium-high.During off peak hours it is low-medium.On high population servers we are still getting 30 minute to 1 hour ques.
I played on Tearfall for 2 months and have a 50 warrior decked out in all Expert dungeon or T2 badge gear. I have since stopped playing on this shard because it is nearly impossible to find a group unless you want to play with the same rotating group of 15 jerks. So let me ask you, what kind of "raids" are you putting together at 47 anyhow? Public groups for rifts don't really count.
I enjoy this game, but the server pops are for the most part making the game unplayable. I started over on Briarcliff until yesterday when I ended by sub altogether. Trion is going to be offering free weekly shard transfers in early summer, so I'll be waiting til then to decide if they can have anymore of my money.
BTW, a large number of the newer registered accounts are trials, many of which are gold spammers/sellers.
Ok I conseed the point about it being very cloneish of wow except two major points. The graphics in Rift are not cartoony and the class system in this game is the best I have seen in any game and blows WOW's system out of the water.
You should agree that Rift is WoW clone'ish only if others agree that WoW is a clone of games that came before but, clearly better put together. And after this, when everyone as agreed, you go on saying Rift is better than Wow because well, it does everything better!
It's simple evolution. Every car is a clone of the one that came before... It's got 4 wheels and seats and a damn steering wheel! But do you wanna drive an old car for ever when there's prettier/ faster/ safer/ better ones out there? F'n no! So why should I keep playing ((resub actually since I haven't played in years)) WoW when something better exists?
I totally understand people defending WoW, it's a great game and with 6 years ((7..?)) below the belt it has content and a solid player base, there is no denying it. It's hard for a player to just leave his high level with years of investment and contacts and progress and all that shit for something new.
But we all have to face it, the future brings new stuff and although we do love our flashy old cars... Well, we might need a minivan soon enough... <-- Ok, weird metaphore but you get it.
Oh and yes, graphically, Rift blows WoW out of the water and I'm gona back you up on the Soul/Class system although in the end if you look at you're char, you can easily see the WoW MAJOR influence. But it's still 32 different specialization which is... Well, crazy!
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
I don't know about subs or trials or such but what I do know is, in the last week; 5 of my hardcore MMO playing friends tried Rift and bought it. And I know for a fact that 3 of them are REALLY hooked, the other two have much time invested in WoW characters so their saying this is a 'break' period but... I don't know. Personally I think Rift is excellent and I see myself playing for a damn long while. So why not!
Call 'Jinx' if you want but I have a bad feeling about SWTOR. Maybe GW2 though, we'll have to see.
There has been some movement among my hardcore WoW guildies as well. Rift is also doing pretty well at retaining their subs. Even on our "med/low" pop shard there is still a lot of activity going on. Rift is simply doing well in compared to releases of the past MMOs. Polish and a committed dev team really go a long way. Rift is a good MMO.
I do predict SWToR will be successful based on what very little playtime I got with the game. SWToR feels very different. Rift and SWToR are aimed at slightly different audiences. There is room for both to experience success.
I personally was hooked on Rift but quit recently after the new patch. They dumbed down the T2 dungeons so bad there is n challenge left. I never liked the PvP and really enjoyed the PvE part of it. It got old doing only raids since the T2 dungeons got nerfed so hard.
Just not enough end game content unfortunately....
To all those wondering what the rift population currently is and wondering if its going steady or not here is my two cents.I play on Tearfall currently level 47 and have no problem at all getting groups or raids together.The server is one of the more lower pop servers.During primetime it is mostly medium-high.During off peak hours it is low-medium.On high population servers we are still getting 30 minute to 1 hour ques.
Now, I would like to add that over the weekend.Trion hit over 2 million accounts(this does mean 2 million active accounts) It is hard to pinpoint how many subs there are as we dont have data to tell us what is low, what is medium, what is high.But I can say that im completely comf playing on a server on offpeak hours that sometimes hits low as I still can get a 15-20 man raid group together to wipe an invasion.I would like to also add alot of people dont realise that they added servers much after release.But to be honest this is not a thread to try to guess subs; because it would just be a guess.Its to say ya, if you try it out and you like it dont worry.There are many people that play this game.And if they work good on there content I can see it keep growing.
I don't know (as do any of you really) the number of people playing any of the servers, but on Millrush during peak times I click on random T1 and T2 dungeon in the lfg tool and it gets a group together in less than 15 minutes. Queue for the Warfronts is almost instant. Sanctum is full of players. Just the facts, that's what matters.
It still makes me laugh how people bash games today. I sense that even when TOR and GW2 comes out there will be plenty of posts on these forums about "omg this game sucks" and "skip this game" etc. It's just funny.
Anyone who believes Rift has come to a halt is silly. But even more silly, are the people who actually believe the game has a 2+ million playerbase.
Sorta how i feel.. The game has been a success for Trion, atleast succesful enough to warrant them to keep up the aggresive advertisement and pay dev's enough to come out with the content that they are as quick as they are.. BUUUT, 2million is A LOT of people.. I think if they had that many players each server would show as "High" or "Full" lol.. I'am still guessing anywhere from 500k-1mil, but thats just a guess..
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I personally was hooked on Rift but quit recently after the new patch. They dumbed down the T2 dungeons so bad there is n challenge left. I never liked the PvP and really enjoyed the PvE part of it. It got old doing only raids since the T2 dungeons got nerfed so hard.
Just not enough end game content unfortunately....
Hmm the game lauchned ( few months ago) with one 20 man raid and 10 man rift raids. Presumably youve cleared them all.
A new 10 man raid has since been launched, and you QQ not enough content ...
Anyone who believes Rift has come to a halt is silly. But even more silly, are the people who actually believe the game has a 2+ million playerbase.
Sorta how i feel.. The game has been a success for Trion, atleast succesful enough to warrant them to keep up the aggresive advertisement and pay dev's enough to come out with the content that they are as quick as they are.. BUUUT, 2million is A LOT of people.. I think if they had that many players each server would show as "High" or "Full" lol.. I'am still guessing anywhere from 500k-1mil, but thats just a guess..
I'd hazard a guess and say they are around 800k-1 million, but like most new releases they'll lose a lot more subscribers in the coming months (expect as much as a 50% drop off in 3 months). Expect another huge plummet in subscription numbers when the new wave of games hit (especially Guild Wars 2 and SW:TOR). Rift certainly isn't failing, but they are going to have to release some well received content to maintain subscribers. Still, I think they are doing a lot better than other MMOs right now, with the exception of WoW. 2 million seems a bit ridiculous, that's only accounts registered at Trion and not actual subscription numbers.
I personally was hooked on Rift but quit recently after the new patch. They dumbed down the T2 dungeons so bad there is n challenge left. I never liked the PvP and really enjoyed the PvE part of it. It got old doing only raids since the T2 dungeons got nerfed so hard.
Just not enough end game content unfortunately....
Hmm the game lauchned ( few months ago) with one 20 man raid and 10 man rift raids. Presumably youve cleared them all.
A new 10 man raid has since been launched, and you QQ not enough content ...
It takes only 5-6 hours a week to clear the 2 20 man raids and the 10 man raid if your guild is capable of clearing them. It will take many more hours of learning the encounter and gearing up to do them successful. If you've already completed Rift's end game content, no amount of content is going to satistify you in any new MMO, as it will be impossible for devs to keep up with your clearing speed (just like in WoW, the endgame guilds finish content a few months early). I'm in the same boat as you (if you really are in the boat), though there really is no use in complaining about it because no dev can release content that fast. Wait for Hammerknell (~2 months) or go clear out all the content in another MMO would be my suggestions.
Tier 2 content got nerfed so heavily, so I can understand you being upset about that. I am too. A lot of us are hoping we'll get new Tier 3 dungeons to complete with our 5 mans at a difficulty to match those in raid gear and some of the old Tier 2 level encounters. Until then, you might want to voice your opinion in one of the many threads on the Rift forums about the nerf, even most casuals seem upset with the difficulty nerfs.
You should agree that Rift is WoW clone'ish only if others agree that WoW is a clone of games that came before but, clearly better put together. And after this, when everyone as agreed, you go on saying Rift is better than Wow because well, it does everything better
But again this isn't really true. WoW copied everything it could from other games but it didn't feel like a clone of those games. Playing EQ doesn't have the same feel as playing WoW at all. Completely different skill systems, different content types, instance vs non instance, different zone design philosophies etc. WoW copied a ton of stuff from EQ but it didn't clone the game.
At least 75% of Rift is pulled directly from WoW, most of the abilities, most of the combat systems, the zone design, the PvP, the combat pacing, etc is all directly pulled from WoW and yeah I agree having the same UI doesn't help it either. If you built a mod for Rift that gave it WoWs graphics you could probably trick someone who hadn't played WOW for a few years into thinking it was WOW just changed some from expansions~.
That doesn't mean the game is bad, but for people who are sick of that style of game it makes it a lot harder to get into Rift.
Yeah. Well, it dosen't look like WoW at all. Is alot different in alot of ways. And it is a really awesome game with great ideas. Something about it though just felt, same old same old. Didn't feel new to me. I played it for a couple weeks at launch. Got really bored, and figured, maybe im just burned out on the MMO genre. So i put it down. Alittle time later, i came back to try it again. And same thing. Bored to tears. I finally started trying other titles and also trying a couple older titles i didn't play in the past because my computer couldn't. I found a couple games that brought me excited back to the genre again.
So it was just Rift. For me, Rift just makes me feel that WoW feel again and i hate it. Don't know why.
Anyone who believes Rift has come to a halt is silly. But even more silly, are the people who actually believe the game has a 2+ million playerbase.
Sorta how i feel.. The game has been a success for Trion, atleast succesful enough to warrant them to keep up the aggresive advertisement and pay dev's enough to come out with the content that they are as quick as they are.. BUUUT, 2million is A LOT of people.. I think if they had that many players each server would show as "High" or "Full" lol.. I'am still guessing anywhere from 500k-1mil, but thats just a guess..
I'd hazard a guess and say they are around 800k-1 million, but like most new releases they'll lose a lot more subscribers in the coming months (expect as much as a 50% drop off in 3 months). Expect another huge plummet in subscription numbers when the new wave of games hit (especially Guild Wars 2 and SW:TOR). Rift certainly isn't failing, but they are going to have to release some well received content to maintain subscribers. Still, I think they are doing a lot better than other MMOs right now, with the exception of WoW. 2 million seems a bit ridiculous, that's only accounts registered at Trion and not actual subscription numbers.
As a guild leader on one the EUs largest servers .... my estimates would be that
They sold 1 mil copies initially and lost 80% of those already ...
They sold a further 400k copies since launch and have lost 50 % of those
So I'd say they have 400k players paying a sub atm plus people on trials
2.12 million subs is just a tactical number just like all devs use their 7 digit numbers to show the world that they have lots of subs.... indeed they have lots of sub, but not all are active.... even if they the devs demselves say they are active, i safely bet it is a tactical number and not 100% of them are active unless they show the statistics
Comments
I wouldn't consider AOC a failure, that game turned a profit for sure. WAR could maybe be called a failure though since they had a big budget and a lot of hype. Rift could completely tank down to 100k players and still be a success given the size of the company that made it and how many sales they've had already etc.
The newer MMOs you're talking about are clones to me but not because of the UI/gameplay. These 'clones' all lack depth. Depth as in certain races hating each other, not just two warring factions with a few races. Ex. EQ1 - You chose your diety and that determined a lot of things in game, especially the places you could go. Even if you were the saem race sometimes, if you chose Bertoxxulous you weren't going to be using the same vendors as someone with Tunare. It's not that hard. These games just lack depth. Theres no problem with them having the same graphics and UIs. Make a world devs, not a video game.
This is pretty backwards. Players who did play in the old days call most of these games clones because they played back when MMOs were more unique. EQ, AO, DAOC, AC, UO etc did not feel anything like each other when you are playing the game. People who didn't play the older MMOs probably don't see them as clones because they don't even realize there is a different way to make these games.
It isn't really about the UI. Rift is more or less WOW with Rifts, the majority of the game feels exactly the same, not really sure how anyone can argue against it being a clone the games are so much alike. Something like AOC I can at least see the argument, but not Rift.
I agree with most of what you said save two points.
1.) It isn't really about the UI. - Okay, it isn't just about the UI, but copying the UI doesn't help.
2.) I haven't been playing mmo's for more than a decade as some of you have. All it takes though, is to play one game that's different, just one good one, and you can appreciate everything that a clone doesn't do.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I don't know about subs or trials or such but what I do know is, in the last week; 5 of my hardcore MMO playing friends tried Rift and bought it. And I know for a fact that 3 of them are REALLY hooked, the other two have much time invested in WoW characters so their saying this is a 'break' period but... I don't know. Personally I think Rift is excellent and I see myself playing for a damn long while. So why not!
Call 'Jinx' if you want but I have a bad feeling about SWTOR. Maybe GW2 though, we'll have to see.
________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
Ok I conseed the point about it being very cloneish of wow except two major points. The graphics in Rift are not cartoony and the class system in this game is the best I have seen in any game and blows WOW's system out of the water.
I played on Tearfall for 2 months and have a 50 warrior decked out in all Expert dungeon or T2 badge gear. I have since stopped playing on this shard because it is nearly impossible to find a group unless you want to play with the same rotating group of 15 jerks. So let me ask you, what kind of "raids" are you putting together at 47 anyhow? Public groups for rifts don't really count.
I enjoy this game, but the server pops are for the most part making the game unplayable. I started over on Briarcliff until yesterday when I ended by sub altogether. Trion is going to be offering free weekly shard transfers in early summer, so I'll be waiting til then to decide if they can have anymore of my money.
BTW, a large number of the newer registered accounts are trials, many of which are gold spammers/sellers.
With Warcraft down to 2.7 million NA/EU players, it seems that someone is stepping up to take the top dog spot.
Marketing, marketing, marketing.
It wins out every time.
You should agree that Rift is WoW clone'ish only if others agree that WoW is a clone of games that came before but, clearly better put together. And after this, when everyone as agreed, you go on saying Rift is better than Wow because well, it does everything better!
It's simple evolution. Every car is a clone of the one that came before... It's got 4 wheels and seats and a damn steering wheel! But do you wanna drive an old car for ever when there's prettier/ faster/ safer/ better ones out there? F'n no! So why should I keep playing ((resub actually since I haven't played in years)) WoW when something better exists?
I totally understand people defending WoW, it's a great game and with 6 years ((7..?)) below the belt it has content and a solid player base, there is no denying it. It's hard for a player to just leave his high level with years of investment and contacts and progress and all that shit for something new.
But we all have to face it, the future brings new stuff and although we do love our flashy old cars... Well, we might need a minivan soon enough... <-- Ok, weird metaphore but you get it.
Oh and yes, graphically, Rift blows WoW out of the water and I'm gona back you up on the Soul/Class system although in the end if you look at you're char, you can easily see the WoW MAJOR influence. But it's still 32 different specialization which is... Well, crazy!
________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
Why do fanboys now and then bring up the 2 million account to fuel thier argument that the game is very much alive and in good health?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
There has been some movement among my hardcore WoW guildies as well. Rift is also doing pretty well at retaining their subs. Even on our "med/low" pop shard there is still a lot of activity going on. Rift is simply doing well in compared to releases of the past MMOs. Polish and a committed dev team really go a long way. Rift is a good MMO.
I do predict SWToR will be successful based on what very little playtime I got with the game. SWToR feels very different. Rift and SWToR are aimed at slightly different audiences. There is room for both to experience success.
I personally was hooked on Rift but quit recently after the new patch. They dumbed down the T2 dungeons so bad there is n challenge left. I never liked the PvP and really enjoyed the PvE part of it. It got old doing only raids since the T2 dungeons got nerfed so hard.
Just not enough end game content unfortunately....
yeah, I played the free month, and quit after a week. oh well. bad game.
I don't know (as do any of you really) the number of people playing any of the servers, but on Millrush during peak times I click on random T1 and T2 dungeon in the lfg tool and it gets a group together in less than 15 minutes. Queue for the Warfronts is almost instant. Sanctum is full of players. Just the facts, that's what matters.
It still makes me laugh how people bash games today. I sense that even when TOR and GW2 comes out there will be plenty of posts on these forums about "omg this game sucks" and "skip this game" etc. It's just funny.
Anyone who believes Rift has come to a halt is silly. But even more silly, are the people who actually believe the game has a 2+ million playerbase.
Sorta how i feel.. The game has been a success for Trion, atleast succesful enough to warrant them to keep up the aggresive advertisement and pay dev's enough to come out with the content that they are as quick as they are.. BUUUT, 2million is A LOT of people.. I think if they had that many players each server would show as "High" or "Full" lol.. I'am still guessing anywhere from 500k-1mil, but thats just a guess..
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Hmm the game lauchned ( few months ago) with one 20 man raid and 10 man rift raids. Presumably youve cleared them all.
A new 10 man raid has since been launched, and you QQ not enough content ...
I'd hazard a guess and say they are around 800k-1 million, but like most new releases they'll lose a lot more subscribers in the coming months (expect as much as a 50% drop off in 3 months). Expect another huge plummet in subscription numbers when the new wave of games hit (especially Guild Wars 2 and SW:TOR). Rift certainly isn't failing, but they are going to have to release some well received content to maintain subscribers. Still, I think they are doing a lot better than other MMOs right now, with the exception of WoW. 2 million seems a bit ridiculous, that's only accounts registered at Trion and not actual subscription numbers.
The game will not sink, this seems to be a stable title, not 2 million by a long shot either
Showing high/full server means nothing if you dont know the server capacity
But anyway, I will have a damn good laugh at the end of the year if the only mmo to succed is Rift..
Then I will retire of mmos for a very long time
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
It takes only 5-6 hours a week to clear the 2 20 man raids and the 10 man raid if your guild is capable of clearing them. It will take many more hours of learning the encounter and gearing up to do them successful. If you've already completed Rift's end game content, no amount of content is going to satistify you in any new MMO, as it will be impossible for devs to keep up with your clearing speed (just like in WoW, the endgame guilds finish content a few months early). I'm in the same boat as you (if you really are in the boat), though there really is no use in complaining about it because no dev can release content that fast. Wait for Hammerknell (~2 months) or go clear out all the content in another MMO would be my suggestions.
Tier 2 content got nerfed so heavily, so I can understand you being upset about that. I am too. A lot of us are hoping we'll get new Tier 3 dungeons to complete with our 5 mans at a difficulty to match those in raid gear and some of the old Tier 2 level encounters. Until then, you might want to voice your opinion in one of the many threads on the Rift forums about the nerf, even most casuals seem upset with the difficulty nerfs.
Make it 1,999,999 subscribers, because i just unsubscribed. ..
But again this isn't really true. WoW copied everything it could from other games but it didn't feel like a clone of those games. Playing EQ doesn't have the same feel as playing WoW at all. Completely different skill systems, different content types, instance vs non instance, different zone design philosophies etc. WoW copied a ton of stuff from EQ but it didn't clone the game.
At least 75% of Rift is pulled directly from WoW, most of the abilities, most of the combat systems, the zone design, the PvP, the combat pacing, etc is all directly pulled from WoW and yeah I agree having the same UI doesn't help it either. If you built a mod for Rift that gave it WoWs graphics you could probably trick someone who hadn't played WOW for a few years into thinking it was WOW just changed some from expansions~.
That doesn't mean the game is bad, but for people who are sick of that style of game it makes it a lot harder to get into Rift.
Yeah. Well, it dosen't look like WoW at all. Is alot different in alot of ways. And it is a really awesome game with great ideas. Something about it though just felt, same old same old. Didn't feel new to me. I played it for a couple weeks at launch. Got really bored, and figured, maybe im just burned out on the MMO genre. So i put it down. Alittle time later, i came back to try it again. And same thing. Bored to tears. I finally started trying other titles and also trying a couple older titles i didn't play in the past because my computer couldn't. I found a couple games that brought me excited back to the genre again.
So it was just Rift. For me, Rift just makes me feel that WoW feel again and i hate it. Don't know why.
As a guild leader on one the EUs largest servers .... my estimates would be that
They sold 1 mil copies initially and lost 80% of those already ...
They sold a further 400k copies since launch and have lost 50 % of those
So I'd say they have 400k players paying a sub atm plus people on trials
Caveat Emptor
2.12 million subs is just a tactical number just like all devs use their 7 digit numbers to show the world that they have lots of subs.... indeed they have lots of sub, but not all are active.... even if they the devs demselves say they are active, i safely bet it is a tactical number and not 100% of them are active unless they show the statistics