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WoW will be blizzard's last great game......

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  • EmhsterEmhster Member UncommonPosts: 913

    SC2 did not fail. Maybe you didn't like it, but by all means...

    Now I do feel like Blizzard is getting much greedier lately with less content being released outside of expansion packs, cash shops for vanity items and soon for in game features... which is why this is the best time for any competing game studio to try and steal subscriptions off World of Warcraft.

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    Originally posted by Emhster

    SC2 did not fail. Maybe you didn't like it, but by all means...

    Now I do feel like Blizzard is getting much greedier lately with less content being released outside of expansion packs, cash shops for vanity items and soon for in game features... which is why this is the best time for any competing game studio to try and steal subscriptions off World of Warcraft.

    No No, if I don't like a game, it has failed. Or if every single person I know didn't like it, it has failed.

    The end.  Sales don't matter, nor does that there are 1 million players on B.Net playing sc2 daily.

     

    And while many of my friends are not so impressed with D3 in any way, and personally, I most likely won't get it, I'm sure it will do fine.  I'm sure it will have big sales and do great.  Good for it.  If you will enjoy it, do so.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by Swanea

    Originally posted by Emhster

    SC2 did not fail. Maybe you didn't like it, but by all means...

    Now I do feel like Blizzard is getting much greedier lately with less content being released outside of expansion packs, cash shops for vanity items and soon for in game features... which is why this is the best time for any competing game studio to try and steal subscriptions off World of Warcraft.

    No No, if I don't like a game, it has failed. Or if every single person I know didn't like it, it has failed.

    The end.  Sales don't matter, nor does that there are 1 million players on B.Net playing sc2 daily.

     

    And while many of my friends are not so impressed with D3 in any way, and personally, I most likely won't get it, I'm sure it will do fine.  I'm sure it will have big sales and do great.  Good for it.  If you will enjoy it, do so.

     Quite the acute perception. Do you apply these same principles to say, food? If you don't like a food, it's gross. If you don't like a genre of music, they suck?

    Just because something doesn't fit into your mold doesn't make it bad, gross, sucky, a failure, etc.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    I agree that Blizzard games are... well, they are high quality. But SC2 for example was just a remake, offering nothing new. Diablo 2? I didn't follow it that closely, but it just seems to be a more polished version of what has been there for a long time as well.

    I mean sure, that is a concept to make games. Take something that exists, polish it, and sell it. It results in good games, but not in really new experiences or something like that.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • motersmoters Member UncommonPosts: 73

    Im no fan of Blizzard no one can say they will fail for sure or succed  for sure some of blizzards games are good some not as good varies from person to person. They do make an mmo that is easy to play and get started in i have tried wow dont like it but it is easy to get into and play and even have fun for most people.

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    Originally posted by Benthon

    Originally posted by Swanea


    Originally posted by Emhster

    SC2 did not fail. Maybe you didn't like it, but by all means...

    Now I do feel like Blizzard is getting much greedier lately with less content being released outside of expansion packs, cash shops for vanity items and soon for in game features... which is why this is the best time for any competing game studio to try and steal subscriptions off World of Warcraft.

    No No, if I don't like a game, it has failed. Or if every single person I know didn't like it, it has failed.

    The end.  Sales don't matter, nor does that there are 1 million players on B.Net playing sc2 daily.

     

    And while many of my friends are not so impressed with D3 in any way, and personally, I most likely won't get it, I'm sure it will do fine.  I'm sure it will have big sales and do great.  Good for it.  If you will enjoy it, do so.

     Quite the acute perception. Do you apply these same principles to say, food? If you don't like a food, it's gross. If you don't like a genre of music, they suck?

    Just because something doesn't fit into your mold doesn't make it bad, gross, sucky, a failure, etc.

    Do I need to write things in italics so you can know when I am being sarcastic.....I mean, really?  <.< I was making fun of the people who do that in threads such as this.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game,

    Yeah, but not for being good. It's one of the most poorly designed MMOs on the market. Sorry, but it wasn't a great game. It had great marketing, and that's all. Great implies you've done something exemplary.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by ichimarunico

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game,

    Yeah, but not for being good. It's one of the most poorly designed MMOs on the market. Sorry, but it wasn't a great game. It had great marketing, and that's all. Great implies you've done something exemplary.

    {mod edit}

    I'm not allowed to share my opinion? WoW literally did nothing new game wise. It had a huge brand name and the biggest advertisement campaign in MMO history, that's what got it where it is. It had no unique gameplay features to speak of to hook already existing MMO players. It's the Wiisports of MMOs.(speaking in terms of how the game was aimed at nongamers, not speaking in terms of innovation)

  • YanniszYannisz Member Posts: 11

    It is difficult to judge the most polished and flawless release developer. If something you can judge them a little for spreading themselves too thin after the merger and developing multiple expansions and titles at the same time. Quality had to give a little bit but hopefully they evened that out with the extensions that most projects and releases got.

    Until they release something BAD, or sub standard, we can't comment on it. I think trying to guess blind that it will suck because the genre sucks now is not a very strong base for a good discussion.

    Games Developer / Game Trailer Director

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

     


    Originally posted by maji

    I agree that Blizzard games are... well, they are high quality. But SC2 for example was just a remake, offering nothing new. Diablo 2? I didn't follow it that closely, but it just seems to be a more polished version of what has been there for a long time as well.

    I mean sure, that is a concept to make games. Take something that exists, polish it, and sell it. It results in good games, but not in really new experiences or something like that.

    Diablo 2 was revolutionary. It literally created the action RPG genre. But as you said you didn't follow it closely and that's why you are misinformed :)


    Just because you don't like a game does NOT make it shallow, crappy or whatever. It means you don't like the game as it doesn't meet your personal requirements. You can't say that numbers = quality but you also can't infer that because a game has big numbers it must be of low quality, shallow and inferior to other games. Both conclusions are not logical.


     


    Most sandbox fans want MMO developers to target a niche market. But niche marketing is associated with higher costs and it can be a meaningful strategy only if your consumers are willing to pay premium for this privelege. But I am pretty sure that most sandbox gamers won't be willing to pay $25-30 per month instead of $15 right? So it is not a viable marketing strategy. Simple investment appraisal will show you that.


     


    A lot of companies make small improvement and refinements rather than massive innovations. This is common practice. It is even trickier when you are making a sequel. You need to make sure that your game is not completely unrecognisable.


     



    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by ichimarunico

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game,

    Yeah, but not for being good. It's one of the most poorly designed MMOs on the market. Sorry, but it wasn't a great game. It had great marketing, and that's all. Great implies you've done something exemplary.

    {mod edit}

    I'm not allowed to share my opinion? WoW literally did nothing new game wise. It had a huge brand name and the biggest advertisement campaign in MMO history, that's what got it where it is. It had no unique gameplay features to speak of to hook already existing MMO players. It's the Wiisports of MMOs.(speaking in terms of how the game was aimed at nongamers, not speaking in terms of innovation)


    We have been through this a couple of thousands of  times. While WoW was not revolutionary, it did have new features.


     


    You don't seem to know much about marketing and all that sort of jazz do you? When you are a marketing manager is quite amusing to see how misinformed people are about marketing and how it actually works....




    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • HelternHeltern Member Posts: 193

    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game, but I think it's really morphed Blizzard into just another company.   I doubt most of the original developers for Blizzard are even still working there.

    The Activision-Blizzard merger were followed right up by all the Bait-and-Switch cashgrabs.  This latest premium service is only more indication of where they're heading. 

    Let's face it, Starcraft 2 really wasn't that great.  Mediocre at best.

    Anyhow that's my prediction.  This Titan game will dominate the market for a few months, but I'm willing to wager it's going to be riddled with cashshops and whatnot. 

     Diablo 3 and code name Titan will be better games than WoW.

  • 69Cuda69Cuda Member Posts: 251

    Originally posted by Heltern

    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game, but I think it's really morphed Blizzard into just another company.   I doubt most of the original developers for Blizzard are even still working there.

    The Activision-Blizzard merger were followed right up by all the Bait-and-Switch cashgrabs.  This latest premium service is only more indication of where they're heading. 

    Let's face it, Starcraft 2 really wasn't that great.  Mediocre at best.

    Anyhow that's my prediction.  This Titan game will dominate the market for a few months, but I'm willing to wager it's going to be riddled with cashshops and whatnot. 

     Diablo 3 and code name Titan will be better games than WoW.

     Diablo 3 (if SC2 is any indication) will be pay for 5 discs to play the "one" game. Titan is the in house code word for the new game "World of Wallmart"

     

    Mhmm great things on the horizon.....

  • kinidokinido Member UncommonPosts: 429

    Diablo 3 is going to be better then WoW; .....

     

     

    They just need to release it in the next decade; 

    PS - All mammals have nipples.

    Get over it already.


    image

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by Swanea

    Originally posted by Benthon

    Originally posted by Swanea

    Originally posted by Emhster

    SC2 did not fail. Maybe you didn't like it, but by all means...

    Now I do feel like Blizzard is getting much greedier lately with less content being released outside of expansion packs, cash shops for vanity items and soon for in game features... which is why this is the best time for any competing game studio to try and steal subscriptions off World of Warcraft.

    No No, if I don't like a game, it has failed. Or if every single person I know didn't like it, it has failed.

    The end.  Sales don't matter, nor does that there are 1 million players on B.Net playing sc2 daily.

     

    And while many of my friends are not so impressed with D3 in any way, and personally, I most likely won't get it, I'm sure it will do fine.  I'm sure it will have big sales and do great.  Good for it.  If you will enjoy it, do so.

     Quite the acute perception. Do you apply these same principles to say, food? If you don't like a food, it's gross. If you don't like a genre of music, they suck?

    Just because something doesn't fit into your mold doesn't make it bad, gross, sucky, a failure, etc.

    Do I need to write things in italics so you can know when I am being sarcastic.....I mean, really?  <.< I was making fun of the people who do that in threads such as this.

     Yeah, you probably do. Since your post actually seemed somewhat serious and many gamers actually have that mentality (the one you also admit them having), maybe try to be a little more open about your sarcasm. Tone of voice and body language aren't present on the internet. :)

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by fivoroth


     



    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by ichimarunico


    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by BribarianI

    I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 2.  Played that game 24 hours when I got it on Christmas.

    World of Warcraft is a legendary game,

    Yeah, but not for being good. It's one of the most poorly designed MMOs on the market. Sorry, but it wasn't a great game. It had great marketing, and that's all. Great implies you've done something exemplary.

    {mod edit}

    I'm not allowed to share my opinion? WoW literally did nothing new game wise. It had a huge brand name and the biggest advertisement campaign in MMO history, that's what got it where it is. It had no unique gameplay features to speak of to hook already existing MMO players. It's the Wiisports of MMOs.(speaking in terms of how the game was aimed at nongamers, not speaking in terms of innovation)


    We have been through this a couple of thousands of  times. While WoW was not revolutionary, it did have new features.


     


    You don't seem to know much about marketing and all that sort of jazz do you? When you are a marketing manager is quite amusing to see how misinformed people are about marketing and how it actually works....




    Have we? Does it? Name the new features WoW brought to the table, I'd like to hear this story. As for marketing, yeah I'm sure having a banner ad on every gaming site and having sponsors put previews of the game on the front page every few months , along with advertising their new game in battlenet had NOTHING to do with why WoW was unpopular with core MMO players yet still managed to be a success.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Yannisz

    It is difficult to judge the most polished and flawless release developer.

    ....Are you serious? Polish, sometimes. Flawless, of course not. Do we forget that WoW had a HORRIBLE launch?

  • catlanacatlana Member Posts: 1,677

    Originally posted by kinido

    Diablo 3 is going to be better then WoW; .....

     

     

    They just need to release it in the next decade; 

    QFT! Diablo 3 needs to hurry up. Diablo 2 was a great game for its time. I have high hopes for Diablo 3 as well. 

  • BribarianIBribarianI Member Posts: 120

    Originally posted by SonofSeth

    Well, I kind of thought Starcraft 2 was the best RTS I ever played, singleplayer and multiplayer. Every time I see someone claiming otherwise it's: 

    a)they like Dawn of War and Company of Heroes mode of play more so it's understandable

    b)they are quoting some strawman arguments made long before Starcraft 2 was even out and almost never have anything to do with actual gameplay

     

    But hey, I'm no pro, not even a pretend one, I can't claim any of my opinions as fact, I just like to play fun games.

     

    As for Titan and Diablo 3, I have yet to play a Blizzard game that has anything but stellar mechanics, by it's own right and even doubly so compared to competition. Nothing suggests that games coming in the future from Blizzard will be any different.

    I played Starcraft Brood war for probably 5 years on and off.  I play SC2 for about a month.

    It was a big letdown.  Not even compareable to the original.

    I never said anything to it's sales, sure it probably sold well, I mean hell, I bought one.  But at the end of the day will it receive the same praise SC1 got?  Not a chance.

    Starcraft 2 was more of a cashin game.  Diablo 3 will be the same. 

    I make this prediction because I don't think Blizzard's original devs are around anymore.  I also think much of their toying with WoW has been how to extract more cash rather than asking whether this is effects the overall game or not.  As soon as Hebrewvision™ moved in on Blizzard a long list of cashgrabs were tossed out.  Check the dates.

  • SonofSethSonofSeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,884

    Originally posted by BribarianI                                                                                                                                                   I played Starcraft Brood war for probably 5 years on and off.  I play SC2 for about a month.

    It was a big letdown.  Not even compareable to the original.

    I played Brood War on and off for 3 years and now I'm playing Starcraft 2 on and of since release. On top of that I watch casted matches. How was it a letdown, how is it not comparable to the original? From my position they improved just te right few mechanics so I can enjoy the game more. Infinite control groups, multy building control groups , auto mining drones and smart pathing, all small things but make a huge difference while actually playing. No more do I have to get bogged down with the fiddly bits and lose because i forgot to move a unit out of the way so reinforcements can come, or forgot to put probes mining, i can concetrate on planing and playig and the game is all better for it.

    We got interesting and diverse units (well, everyone but Zerg, Zerg got banelings, so that evens it out) and singleplayer is something you never really saw in any other RTS game. Cinematics are still something no one can touch Blizzard, not even close, and their in engine cinematics using the new and shiny tech are something many full CGI houses could look at and learn things.

    BattleNet 2.0 got all the things (except cross continet play) people were requesting,but overall it's so much more user friendly now and extremely functional, for matches with oponents I can actually have fun with playing or for finding custom games. Blizzard is still working on it, as much as the gameplay itself is getting patched, it's the same for the BettlaNet interface and usability. 

    I never said anything to it's sales, sure it probably sold well, I mean hell, I bought one.  But at the end of the day will it receive the same praise SC1 got?  Not a chance.

    Well, we'll probably have to wait for the expansions to come out and then wait another 10 years to see what it will and will not get.

    Starcraft 2 was more of a cashin game.  Diablo 3 will be the same. 

    That's just trollbait, there are no Blizzard cash in games.

    I make this prediction because I don't think Blizzard's original devs are around anymore.  I also think much of their toying with WoW has been how to extract more cash rather than asking whether this is effects the overall game or not.  As soon as Hebrewvision™ moved in on Blizzard a long list of cashgrabs were tossed out.  Check the dates.

    When was Blizzard ever about individual devs? Only time you heard about someone from Blizzard was when they left or got fired and then they they were waving the Blizzard flag like some perstigious badge of honor that opens every door. Most of them did, mind you, open a lot of doors, got the cash to fund their ideas, but most of them also failed to deliver, only few could put ther skill where their mouth was. No, Blizzard was never about primadonas, it was about an idea, gameplay first, and that ideal still stands, they were always about realeasing finished and polished games, when they were done, that hasn't changed either.

    It's true that if there was no WoW, we would see SC2 and D3 much sooner, but Blizzard now is that much more experienced with multiplayer gameplay and server architecture, their MMO still has the smoothest, most responsive combat from all the competition and the thing, the only thing we should really care about, gameplay, can only improve, be it future WoW or new games coming from Blizzard.

    I see a lot of bold statements coming from you, but very little reasons, you sound more like you are just mad for some reason and looking for a place to vent. 

    image

  • BribarianIBribarianI Member Posts: 120

    Originally posted by SonofSeth

    Originally posted by BribarianI                                                                                                                                                   I played Starcraft Brood war for probably 5 years on and off.  I play SC2 for about a month.

    It was a big letdown.  Not even compareable to the original.

    I played Brood War on and off for 3 years and now I'm playing Starcraft 2 on and of since release. On top of that I watch casted matches. How was it a letdown, how is it not comparable to the original? From my position they improved just te right few mechanics so I can enjoy the game more. Infinite control groups, multy building control groups , auto mining drones and smart pathing, all small things but make a huge difference while actually playing. No more do I have to get bogged down with the fiddly bits and lose because i forgot to move a unit out of the way so reinforcements can come, or forgot to put probes mining, i can concetrate on planing and playig and the game is all better for it.

    We got interesting and diverse units (well, everyone but Zerg, Zerg got banelings, so that evens it out) and singleplayer is something you never really saw in any other RTS game. Cinematics are still something no one can touch Blizzard, not even close, and their in engine cinematics using the new and shiny tech are something many full CGI houses could look at and learn things.

    BattleNet 2.0 got all the things (except cross continet play) people were requesting,but overall it's so much more user friendly now and extremely functional, for matches with oponents I can actually have fun with playing or for finding custom games. Blizzard is still working on it, as much as the gameplay itself is getting patched, it's the same for the BettlaNet interface and usability. 

    I never said anything to it's sales, sure it probably sold well, I mean hell, I bought one.  But at the end of the day will it receive the same praise SC1 got?  Not a chance.

    Well, we'll probably have to wait for the expansions to come out and then wait another 10 years to see what it will and will not get.

    Starcraft 2 was more of a cashin game.  Diablo 3 will be the same. 

    That's just trollbait, there are no Blizzard cash in games.

    I make this prediction because I don't think Blizzard's original devs are around anymore.  I also think much of their toying with WoW has been how to extract more cash rather than asking whether this is effects the overall game or not.  As soon as Hebrewvision™ moved in on Blizzard a long list of cashgrabs were tossed out.  Check the dates.

    When was Blizzard ever about individual devs? Only time you heard about someone from Blizzard was when they left or got fired and then they they were waving the Blizzard flag like some perstigious badge of honor that opens every door. Most of them did, mind you, open a lot of doors, got the cash to fund their ideas, but most of them also failed to deliver, only few could put ther skill where their mouth was. No, Blizzard was never about primadonas, it was about an idea, gameplay first, and that ideal still stands, they were always about realeasing finished and polished games, when they were done, that hasn't changed either.

    It's true that if there was no WoW, we would see SC2 and D3 much sooner, but Blizzard now is that much more experienced with multiplayer gameplay and server architecture, their MMO still has the smoothest, most responsive combat from all the competition and the thing, the only thing we should really care about, gameplay, can only improve, be it future WoW or new games coming from Blizzard.

    I see a lot of bold statements coming from you, but very little reasons, you sound more like you are just mad for some reason and looking for a place to vent. 

    Nah, I'm not mad just my prediction about the future of Blizzard.  It's not that epic indy compnay it once was.  It's part of activision now.  And ever since it's just been nickel and diming everything and game quality has slipped.

    SC2 is total cashin.  Why do you think they split it up into 3 games?  Cashin time.

    Titan will be Sub + cash shops everywhere.  GG

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