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Permadeath

PainbringerPainbringer Member Posts: 63

The word at the end of the description caught my eye.

I know people have been talking a lot about it, and even wanting it, but this is perhaps the first MMO I've seen that will actually have it.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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Comments

  • SquishydewSquishydew Member UncommonPosts: 1,107

    They've already done this in Haven & Hearth ( Made by the same guys )

    Haven & Hearth is basicly a 2D version of what salem will be, although Salem will no doubt have more/new features.. well, i hope.

     

    It can be a pain - But It can also be your ultimate revenge :)

  • liva98989liva98989 Member UncommonPosts: 252

    I hope the grafic is gonna be good, realistic (atleast a bit) because i'm looking foward to play this ):3

    image

    image
  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    the only way perma death in an mmo would work is if maxing your character out only took liek half hour or somthing..

     

    No one in their right mind would want to spend months developing a character only for him to die and them to start over again.. no fun in that..

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    the only way perma death in an mmo would work is if maxing your character out only took liek half hour or somthing..

     

    No one in their right mind would want to spend months developing a character only for him to die and them to start over again.. no fun in that..

     Totally disagree...I think it could be the exact opposite as everyone will die sometime.  The great thing about perma is that noobs can always catch up, allowing for a player base to grow at any point.  Other hardcore mmos like Darkfall or Lineage II suffered from having a brutal grind because no one could enter the game late and have a shot. 

     

    *SWG actually had perma for early jedis...just fyi

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  • FargolFargol Member UncommonPosts: 303

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    the only way perma death in an mmo would work is if maxing your character out only took liek half hour or somthing..

     

    No one in their right mind would want to spend months developing a character only for him to die and them to start over again.. no fun in that..

    Also, I've had toons die because of lag, unexpected disconnect (and my toon gets killed whilst I'm cursing out loud).

    I supposed death could also die via bug, glitch, exploit, etc.

  • ~Roh~~Roh~ Member UncommonPosts: 16

    No one in their right mind you say? Not quite right. All it takes is someone with a little balls who enjoys the risk and feels that it makes the acomplisments ingame actually have some meaning. Instead of being completely pointless. With a game with perm death you don't "beat" it and wait for the next big content patch. You continue to struggle to improve your character without dying.

     

    Heh and in this game you don't even lose all of your characters gains. You get to keep any land he gained, which I think is too much, and you get to keep a % up to like 75% of all points you've ever spent. So it's not so much that no one in their right mind wants it. It's just that pansies with short attention spans won't want it.

  • hasao0012hasao0012 Member Posts: 5

    game was made by paradox interactive

    paradox made Mount and Blade

    heaven and hearth devs did not make this game.

  • rtbbvrrtbbvr Member UncommonPosts: 164

    Originally posted by hasao0012

    game was made by paradox interactive

    paradox made Mount and Blade

    heaven and hearth devs did not make this game.

    Heaven and Hearth devoloper Seatribe is the same devoloper of Salem. Paradox Interactive is the publisher. On that same note, TaleWorlds made Mount and Blade, again Paradox Interactive only published it. 

  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228
    if the in game advancement depend on real life knowledge or skills there is no big lose if you die

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  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    I like death penalties but permadeath? that'll come to me sometime in the next 1-50 years.

    No way in hell I'll play a game with it.

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  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    the only way perma death in an mmo would work is if maxing your character out only took liek half hour or somthing..

     

    No one in their right mind would want to spend months developing a character only for him to die and them to start over again.. no fun in that..

    Or no advancement at all.

  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,016

    Don't mind perma death as long as there is legacy characters to carry on the bloodline so it's really not perma death etc.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • Germaximus_SGermaximus_S Member UncommonPosts: 1,061

    Permadeath works just great in Realm of the Mad God. =)

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  • joeybootsjoeyboots Member UncommonPosts: 628

    I played a game with permadeath once before.....Oh, yeah, It was called Dungeons and Dragons. :)

  • servedoggservedogg Member Posts: 105

    MMOs rely on hooking players for as long as possible in order to keep their revenue streams going.  Permadeath provides players with a natural point in time to quit the game, which is something I would think MMOs would want to avoid. 

    It would need to be done in such a way that players don't feel too frustrated when it occurs. 

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    Originally posted by Painbringer

    The word at the end of the description caught my eye.

    I know people have been talking a lot about it, and even wanting it, but this is perhaps the first MMO I've seen that will actually have it.

    It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

     From the desciption of this game it seam to work the same as their prior mmo Heavean and Hearth, and it work very well. In fact you don't loose that much, just your player stat, and even a potion of that can be restitued if you choose a slower learning curve. In fact all what you build ingame stay for your new incarnation, its like Xsyon (i beleive Xsyon took this and a lot of other idea from their game) where you have a stake claim for your personal or community perspectives and this stay if you die. Also those game are built so differently, you just can't take the perma death idea and slap it in your usual mmo, it just wouldn't give you a proper idea imo.

    I also played few NWN servers with perma death, but it didn't played that well, was still interesting.

    There is also an other permadeth perspective from an other design which is to have a set number of lifes before you perma death. That was from an other game that never made it, but the idea was definitly something i noted.

    I don't even understand why so few games played with perma death, the idea isn't even as bad as most people think. It would bring back a natural balance most mmo heavily lack.

  • kyoskiberkyoskiber Member UncommonPosts: 2

    As a victim of the SWG Early Jedi Permadeath, I have a bitter taste in my mouth at the very mention of that word however Salem is something I might give a try anyways. Hey if I can survive months of maxing every job on SWG then going Jedi, dying 3 times and then getting a permadeath without killing myself irl I think I can handle Salem lol

  • AluviusAluvius Member Posts: 288

    Apparently in this game if you die you'll reroll as a "descendant" which will keep the items from the previous incarnation.  I'm not certain about skills though.

    I'm looking forward to it but I hope it won't offer free accounts capable of pvp.  In their previous game, H&H, which also had permadeath almost no one would engage in pvp with their main characters because of the skill loss mentioned above.  So since it was a f2p game people would just create an alt account, roll up a newb, level up to the people murdering skills and then kill people with that toon. 

    That sounds much worse than just having permadeath with paid accounts where people really have to weigh risk vs reward. 

    They haven't announced their pay structure yet but since its browser based I'm just going to assume it will have the same problems unfortunately.  I"ll still give it a whack though.

  • InfearealInfeareal Member UncommonPosts: 111

    Diablo 2 Hardcore mode, had 2 specific characters that got past level 80, one still exists ( i would assume) but alas one did finally fall in pvp. Permadeath puts a whole new level to a game, a level of challenge that makes most care bears cry.

     

    I think people really look at games incorrectly today, the word endgame is to me a very negative word and I think it destroy's the ideal of MMORPG's. Back in the day it was just max level which has a totally different connotation than "end game". MAa level was nothing more than an achievement that came naturally while play a game, where as end game is a destination that is reached. In end game previous content becomes irrelevant and you are pigeon holed into this very specific content group. Just the words create a negative mentality.

     

    In games in the past you could reach max level and be no where near this "end game" content. I guess that is the fault of not only game developers today, but the general gaming population and thier expectations. You know I remember back in the day reaching level 99 or 126(max level per say) and never thinking okay what dunguens do I have to do now. It used to be what do I want to do, not what do I have to do.  You could consider this off topic but really there is a major link, it is how you look at it, permadeath is a part of the game not and end to a situation. Most of you can not even get to "end game" without shelving character after character for "alts", not much difference between permadeath and altitis, just how you view it. 

  • BiskopBiskop Member UncommonPosts: 709

    permadeath is a great concept, I wish more devs had the balls to try it.

    it brings immersion and a real connection to your character and your belongings.

    besides, in Salem a murderer will have a really tough time judging from the available info - you kill someone, others can track you down, summon you and kill you while you're offline.

    so hopefully, random PKing will be pretty  rare.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    I've heard that you'll be able to have descendants or followers or something like that who can inherit your stuff, and put out a contract on the person who killed your previous character. I'm not sure how the skills and such will work out though.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • CopenhagenCopenhagen Member UncommonPosts: 57

    I can tell you that I personally will not be interested in a game that has "Permadeath".

    EveOnline sort of has that (That is if you don't have insurance, on your so-called Clone/Ship), I I don't like it, nor do I play it.

  • BiskopBiskop Member UncommonPosts: 709

    Originally posted by Copenhagen

    I can tell you that I personally will not be interested in a game that has "Permadeath".

    EveOnline sort of has that (That is if you don't have insurance, on your so-called Clone/Ship), I I don't like it, nor do I play it.

    That's very interesting!

    Well, have fun in some other game then... You only have 99.9% of the MMO market to chose from.

  • SupersoupsSupersoups Member Posts: 1,004

    Originally posted by liva98989

    I hope the grafic is gonna be good, realistic (atleast a bit) because i'm looking foward to play this ):3

    You are going to end up so disappointed ;)

    And yeah permadeath is not for me even though i enjoy FFA PVP games.

    image

  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432

    Permadeath is a great concept on paper but in practice it's not so great.  Imagine a player playing your game for 30-40 hours of gameplay and then dieing, thus loosing all the progression from that 30-40 hours.   Now, it's not so great because most people (yes most) would just stop playing.

    Death Penalty is a much more amiable system which promotes care in your player activities while still protecting progression. A perma-Death game would need to have so many stop-gaps and "death protections" to keep players playing that it would be more like a DPenalty type game anyway.

    Eve is a pretty good example of the MMO demographic threshhold for such a penalty, although I think they could reduce payouts from insurance which would likely deflate the economy a bit (which it needs).

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