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Common (or not) MMO features that shall not be in TOR (at least at launch)

DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

[Edit & foreword] clicky






Quote:


Originally Posted by Emmanuel Lusinchi


There is tons of future features that we want to put into the game but we don't have a ton of time right now to fit it all in, if we tried the game would be released as a huge buggy mess and we don't want that, so our goal is to slowly add these features as time permits, such as more customization for characters, more things for guilds(Giant guild ships etc), and alot more social stuff as well. Hopefully in 2 years alot of it, if not all of it, will be live.





--- ---



So far:


  • Swimming (1)

  • Third party addons (2)

  • Minigames like Pazaak, Sabac or Holo-chess (3)

  • Dual spec (4)

  • Day/night cycles

  • Non humanoid based playable races

  • Multiplayer space content

  • 3d space combat

  • Choice of space ship chassis

  • Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)

  • Planetary housing

  • Pod & Swoop racing

  • Player bounties

  • Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)

  • Companion Deaths

  • Animal based pet classes

  • same-gender romance arcs

  • Resources for crafting does not have quality (6)

  • Guild leveling system (cf WAR) (7)

  • Animal mounts (8)

  • Flying mounts (10)

  • Large (20vs20 - or more) multiplayer PvP Warzones (9)

  • PvP Arenas

  • Collision detection between characters

  • UI Addons (20)

  • Macros (16)

  • Barber / Image Designer (11)

  • Appearance tabs (12)

  • Fishing (13)

  • Guild "Tabard" (14)

  • Multiplayer mounts (15)

  • Gear Dyes (17)

  • Shared storage bank slots (18)

  • In game voice chat (19)

  • LFG tool

  • Guild bank (21)

  • [new] Legacy system (22)

  • [new] Grey path abilities/rewards (23)



==> Finally in <==


  • Companions body customization through kits, some restricted kits for C.E. owners only. (Skin color, hair style and more)

  • AC to AC respecs

  • Display pets: so far there's at least the CE mouse droid.

  • Racial Abilities Clicky @6:56

  • [new] Player’s appearance changing for dark side, based on morality Clicky @7:24

  • [new] Localized constant weather conditions (24)

Refs:



(1) [Clicky]



Quote:


Originally Posted by DanielErickson


-Swimming will not be in TOR for ship. It is not a 'free feature' we turned off and is actually a huge amount of animation, pathfinding and AI work. Either every creature in the game needs to have water moving/fighting animations and AI to handle 3D movement or combat has to stop in the water with all the AI craziness that having safe zones you can jump in and out of entails. We have nothing against swimming but it’s never going to outrank improving combat, Companion AI or any of our other core features.

(2) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller


Let's be clear about this: When we say 'probably not at launch', that isn't any indication that we are for or against addons, it's just a statement that they are unlikely to be in the feature set at launch.

(3) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Damion Schubert


And we do that with every single feature. But, we all want to get, in particular, Pazaak in at some point – I don’t know when that is right now..

Clicky




Quote:

Les mini-jeux tels que le Pazaak, le Sabac ou encore l'Holo-chess ne seront pas présents à la sortie du jeu. Ce sont toutefois des concepts qui ont été inscrits sur le « wall of crazy », un mur sur lequel les développeurs inscrivent toutes les idées géniales qu'ils souhaitent voir implémenter à plus ou moins court terme

=> Pazaak, Sabac and Holo-chess won't make the launch. Their are pinned on the wall of crazy

though.

(4) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller


Correct. The ability to respec your skill point distribution is still in the game. 



Summary, since this is a confusing topic:



You can change your skill point distribution by paying credits at a vendor on your capital world. That has not changed.



You may or may not be able to change your Advanced Class, we haven't decided on this one yet. If you can, the cost would be significant. That has not changed.



There is currently no plan to add dual spec (the ability to swap almost instantly between two skill point configurations) for launch. At this point, it seems not necessary for us, but we're not opposed to add it at a later point / patch should we feel that the game would benefit from it.

(5) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Q&A Mike Bitton from MMORPG.com


Mods as it stands right now are purely functional, such as weapons, shields, etc. Cosmetic modifications to the ship (such as hanging a painting up on your wall) are supported in the game tech, but are not currently available.

(6) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by SWTOR-FR


Les objets fabriqués ne possèdent pas de statistiques qualitatives. Des brassards mandaloriens sont des brassards mandaloriens. Leurs stats sont X et X et quelque soit l'artisan, elles seront toujours les mêmes. La différence réside ainsi dans l'objet lui même. La compétition pour les artisans reposera donc dans la quête du schéma et ensuite dans la quête des éléments pour fabriquer l'objet en lui même et non dans la quête de la meilleur ressource.


=> Item stats will only be based on the schematic. The challenge will be to find the schematics and then the required components

(7) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by SWTOR-FR


Le système d'avancement des guildes, comme dans Warhammer, est lui aussi inscrit sur le wall of crazy. Il ne sera pas présent dans le jeu à sa sortie mais pourrait être implémenté ensuite.


=> War like guild leveling system is on the wall of crazy. Won't make the launch.

(8) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by SWTOR-FR


Initially, we're just going with vehicles instead of animal mounts, although we definitely hope to get to the animals post-launch. We felt that, given a choice between the two, being on a vehicle felt more like Star Wars. The vehicles tend to be reminiscent of vehicles you've seen in the films, although it's a balancing act. As a designer, you want to be sure that the vehicles graduate in speed but also that the vehicles look appropriate for the speed at which they're travelling


=> Vehicles at launch. Animal mounts sometime in the future.

(9) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Emmanuel Lusinchi


Well, we have announced two. There are only two. There are the warzones, that you have actually tried today, which is a very codified engagement, because we wanted it to be fair, so 8 vs. 8, objective, very clear, we show you what you're supposed to do and we're going to reward you based on whether you complete the objectives. There is much more reward for the team that wins than the team that doesn't win. Very team oriented gameplay, that's one.


=> Vehicles at launch. Animal mounts sometime in the future.

(10) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson


There’s really not much tradition of atmosphere… we don’t really have jets in Star Wars. Even the Snow Speeders are just a little bit higher… and then after that you’re up in space. So, at least for launch we’re not going in that direction. Our worlds are definitely not built for flying mounts. There was never a thought for that

(11) Clicky @ 3:00



Quote:

Q (SWTORLife): Will a player be able to change their look after creation? go into barber shop type of thing change skin/hair/tattoo



A (DDaniel Erickson): Probably not at ship. Its something that we are fully in support of but it is on the list of things that techwise are probably not going to make it at ship.

*** Update from Comic-Con, seems they are working on a barbershop feature, could be in at launch.

(12) clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Emmanuel Lusinchi


There is no appearance tab for SWTOR, but there is something that is not unlike it in concept in what it will allow, we are hoping that everyone will like it. It serves the same purpose, and is built right into the game. It just makes sense to have because we understand the concept of everyone looking the same and nobody wanting to have a twin just because they have the same gear.


Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Stephen Reid


Both something we want, but possibly not for launch..


clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller


There's more to this:



The mod system in our game is extremely extensive. You can already keep weapons and armor that you like up to date, stats, wise, for long stretches of the game. 



For most items, most, in some cases all, stats on an item come from it's mods, which can be replaced throughout the game.




Quote:


Originally Posted by Comic con Panel


[I]7:30p: Q: Plans for vanity armor that overwrites the equiped one? JO: We debated that, but we're not doing that. If you want to look great you'll have to make scarifies in combat strength.



MMORPG.com interview



Quote:

MMORPG.com:

In some recent discussions regarding gear it was revealed that players will generally be free to wear most gear that falls under their armor class regardless of whether it looks and is statted for another class that uses the same armor type. For example, a Jedi Knight who wears Heavy armor can wear some armor that may have the stats and appearance of Trooper gear. Does this extend to gear dropped in Flashpoints? Can a Jedi roll on Trooper armor and vice-versa?



Daniel Erickson:

Yeah, absolutely. So a Jedi could roll on just about anything and the Trooper will probably get really mad at him, but you can absolutely roll on it. It’s not going to ever be as good as Jedi gear, because the Trooper and the Jedi are looking for different stats. So, he could roll on it, he could put it on, he could run around looking like a Trooper; but if you see a Jedi that is dressed like a Trooper and he tries to join your Flashpoint group, you’re probably going to tell him no, because he clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing.

==> In short: you're going to wear your equipped gear otherwise he would not say people would refuse players based on their character's look.

(13) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller


As you can see, it's clearly not very viable to fish in this galaxy. Maybe if you'd fly over to that Calamari planet. But then again, as soon as you'd deploy your fishing gear, all the fish would just go 'It's a trap' and there is that.

(14) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by James Ohlen


Currently there is no sort of Tabard or emblem however it is something that is huge that we are missing

(15) Clicky



Quote:

JO: Not for ship but it is definitely something we have discussed so currently you are going to be a little bit lonely in the land-speeder. RV: But it's reserved for future expansion. SR: And the back seat as well, is that reserved for future expansion? RV: Always. JO: That's where were storing the Star Wars Chess mini-game...just kidding.

(16) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by James Ohlen


That's something that we cannot really answer at this point. It's something that we're looking at, but don't have a definitive answer on that right now.

(17) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by Georg Zoeller


Right now, you cannot dye your equipment. We might add that ability at some point in the future, but currently the option you have is to 'unify color to chest piece' or not.

(18) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by James Ohlen


Currently no, you have to do it the old fashioned way through the mailbox, but only if they’re the same faction

(19) Clicky @5:30



Quote:

We're not shipping with the voice over IP chat

(20) Clicky @7:52



Quote:


Originally Posted by Stephen Reid


We're working on that now, post launch feature, but it will at some point come.

(21) Clicky 



Quote:

Guild banks are NOT in at launch. This is number one priority for after launch.

(22) Clicky @6:47



Quote:


Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson


We never said anything about that. No news.

(23) Clicky @7:13



Quote:


Originally Posted by James Ohlen


We won't gimp you. We're careful with it. It doesn't impact all of your abilities. Erickson: You can be snarky and still be light side. You can be a wiseass in conversations but light side. It's the bigger actions that you take that matter.

(24) Clicky



Quote:


Originally Posted by SWTOR QA


Each planet has localized weather conditions. Depending on the world the weather you will encounter will include rain, snow, sandstorms and many other unfavorable conditions; it just happens to be a constant for those worlds. For example, if you&rs
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Comments

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    No confirmation yet on At-At vanity pets in Hello Kitty trim either ...

    I'm getting hopeless. V_V

  • SpandexDroidSpandexDroid Member Posts: 277

    MMOs are full of bad hair days. I gave up on hair, looking forward for shiny head gear!

  • BarakIIIBarakIII Member Posts: 800

    The only one of those that bothers me at all is the swimming. I feel if they have water deep enough to swim in, then there should be swimming. I also want pazaak and pod racing in the game, but as long as they get it in there sometime soon after launch I'd be happy with that.

    Only a few of those fit your thread title. The (or not) should have been bold and highlighted. I mean seriously, you should have gone for another title. All the other issues you have listed are either Star Wars specific or at the very least sci-fi specific and aren't common to MMOs in general.

  • gamer1982o39gamer1982o39 Member Posts: 212

    Originally posted by Deewe

    So far:


    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes



    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes



    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes


    • Day/night cycles


    Appearance tabs [i]


    Weather? 


    Gear Dyes?


    Planetary housing?


    Display pets?





    hmm 'nother dis

    I want to own property too

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by BarakIII

     

    Only a few of those fit your thread title. The (or not) should have been bold and highlighted. I mean seriously, you should have gone for another title. All the other issues you have listed are either Star Wars specific or at the very least sci-fi specific and aren't common to MMOs in general.

    Like Barak already said, the list is a peculiar one especially when laid next to the thread title. I saw this thread on the official forums as well, I still find it as 'meh' as I did back then, the list sounds unrealistic and more like some personal gripe with SWTOR's feature list that isn't conform a person's own wishlist than that it reads like an honest, objective comparison with other MMO's. I mean, a list of features that won't be or weren't ingame at launch could be made of any MMORPG, past and upcoming ones, especially if you include the nice-to-have's uncommon features that make up people's personal wishlists image

     

    Some comments:


    Originally posted by Deewe

    So far:


    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes



    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes



    Swimming (1)


    Third party addons (2)


    Minigames like Pazaak (3)


    Dual spec (4)


    Day/night cycles


    Non humanoid based playable races


    Multiplayer space content


    3d space combat


    Choice of space ship chassis


    Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5)


    Player bounties


    Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)


    Companions body/race customization.


    Animal based pet classes


    • Swimming (1)

    • Third party addons (2)

    • Minigames like Pazaak (3) this one is new, it's certain there are no minigames ingame?

    • Dual spec (4) this is hardly common, it's a nice-to-have, that's it

    • Day/night cycles

    • Non humanoid based playable races matter of personal taste and opinion, SWTOR's races are as nonhumanoid as Star Trek's, Rift's, Aion's, LotrO's, WAR's, to name a few next to the MMO's where the races were purely human like GW and AoC (and TSW)

    • Multiplayer space content hardly any MMO has that, and SWG didn't have any space combat at all at launch

    • 3d space combat variation of the former point, so the same point stands: hardly a typical MMO feature

    • Choice of space ship chassis hardly any MMO has that, and SWG didn't have any spaceships at all at launch

    • Decoration mechanic for personal ships (5) hardly any MMO has that at all

    • Player bounties another rare feature that doesn't exist in MMO's: SWTOR isn't SWG, pining that SWTOR will be like SWG in all kinds of features makes no sense

    • Companions in Warzones (Well tbh I like this one)  Companions are hardly seen in MMO's, so irrelevant point imo

    • Companions body/race customization like said, Companions are hardly seen in MMO's and where they were seen you couldn't customize their body or race. Another irrelevant issue that's more of a wishlist item than serious comparison with the MMO field

    • Animal based pet classes  true, instead the trade off is the Companions

     


    Not confirmed

    • Appearance tabs [i] hardly common in MMO's, nice-to-have feature for some players while others would certainly be very much against such a feature

    • Gear Dyes? [ii]

    • Planetary housing? 

    • Display pets?

    • Pod racing Seriously? Has nothing to do with MMO features, completely a wishlist item.

     



    Appearance tabs [i]


    Weather? 


    Gear Dyes?


    Planetary housing?


    Display pets?





    Would I like some of the issues mentioned to be in SWTOR too? Sure, no doubt about it. But like said before, a lot of those items on the list sound like a personal wishlist, namely of the OP, and have little to do with what's common (or not) as features in MMO's.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • slprslpr Member Posts: 340

    We all know you don't like the design of the game, but yes, the game will be sucessful even if you don't like it. :)

    image

  • ormstungaormstunga Member Posts: 736

    Is that the list of things confirmed not to be in the game?

    If thats it, it looks bloody amazing =D Bring it on!

    Exactly everything on that list affects my enjoyment in a negative way by 0%.

     

    This is unconfirmed atm but there is also no:

    biker moustache

    porkins torso in char creation

    pop culture references

     

    and other silly things.

    O_O

     

    EDIT: no 3rd party addons. Its about god damn time. Instead, make the game playable and enjoyable without it.

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    No confirmation yet on At-At vanity pets in Hello Kitty trim either ...

    I'm getting hopeless. V_V

    Or light cycles, Fin Fang Foom, Dr Zachary Smith, or a decafinated coffee that tastes a good as the real thing. Dat burnit dat blast it! Guess we can't have everything. image

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • goblagobla Member UncommonPosts: 1,412

    Man! looks like I'll be having to go back to WoW to play underwater Pazaak in my fully customisable free-flight space-ship.....

    And to think I was actually looking forward to this game, yet another disapointment in a long list of failed MMOs.

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
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    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    Swimming-yeah Id like to have seen swimming at launch. I was hoping to see some underwater Gungan cities at launch but perhaps that will be in an expansion or patch.

    Third Party Addons-so glad TOR doesnt support this. No more "required" addons to raid that clutter my screen with tables, numbers,random bars and percentages. No more having to wait a couple days after a patch to do anything because everyone's addons are out of date and screwing up.

    Minigames like Pazaak- Id like to see some minigames. But having them in at launch is not a big deal to me. The main content is still fresh for about the first year or so. Minigames dont really appeal to me until after Im max level and have settled into endgame for a while.

    Dual Spec-only needed really if your game has specs that gimp you in either solo or group play. TOR doesnt seem to have this problem.

    Day/Night cycles-I would have liked to see this implemented.

    Multiplayer space content- upcoming in a patch or expansion. I can wait.

    3D space combat- those polygons look 3D to me. Not sure what youre getting at here. If you mean that its a tube shooter instead of open space then Id agree that Id like it to be more like JTL. But the fact that there is 3d space combat in some form at launch makes it a feature whether you want to recognize it or not.

    Choice of Spaceship chassis- Actually you do have a choice. Depends on whats more important to you: choose your favorite class and get that class' chassis or choose your favorite chassis and get the accompanying class heh. I dunno if its that important at launch or not.

    Decoration mechanic for personal ships-will be a post launch feature. I can wait.

    Player Bounties- I wish this was a launch feature.

    Companions in warzones- who cares really ;)

    Companions body/race customization- well, you can dress them up. besides, these are characters that you meet during your story. that would be weird to design them.

    Animal based pet class- so humanoid and droid companions arent enough for ya? heh, ok.

    Appearance tab-not a fan. if you want to look a certain way for rp purposes or for fashion preference, then by all means just wear those clothes. but having that look carry over into pvp is lame. especially in a gear based game like tor. I want to be able to identify your class and get a general idea of your skill, stats, and spec by looking at your gear. That is part of the strategy in knowing your enemy.

    Gear Dyes- actually, you get to match your gear up into various color schemes. so this is a feature that is in game currently.

    Display pets- cmon, whats with this item shop f2p stuff? It'll come soon enough most likely. But I really dont need this as a launch feature.

    Pod Racing- Id like to see this asap. Would be a very cool addition to the game.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Oh dear !! Oh dear !! Oh Dear !!

    THis MMO will have more than enough features for it to class as an AAA+ MMO.

    This is like a rant thread and to be honest is a little pathetic no very pathetic.This is is a generalised opinion from the OP but has little if no relevance.

    The game is what it is and whining like a little kid will not change anything, if their was anything constructive about this thread i'd contribute but there is not. Nice destructive contribution to a game I guess yopu don't really wan't to play because you can't swim in acid pools.

     

    It does annoy me that you can't be a Chef in game and make Banana splits; Thats a core MMO feature.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

     

    P.s. Tardcore, nice to have some competition in the awesome sig department. Great one.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    While this is a good thread, many of those features you listed are not common at all or even MMO specific features.

    "Features that shall not be in TOR (at least at launch)", would have been a better title imo.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • CammyCammy Member Posts: 864

    Only thing that bugs me at all is no duel spec - I think that's really important for games that offer such flexibility. I figure it'll be one of the first features implemented but if not it isn't exactly the end of the world. 

     

    Looking forward to playing, this game will be my new home :)


  • Originally posted by Foomerang

    Gear Dyes- actually, you get to match your gear up into various color schemes. so this is a feature that is in game currently.

    well its not exactly the same since its color matching based on the color of the chest piece.  you can't get a red chest piece and make it blue.  it would make the rest of the gear you choose to turn red.

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by DarkPony

     

    P.s. Tardcore, nice to have some competition in the awesome sig department. Great one.

    Woot! Thanks! High praise indeed!

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Some things do disappoint me.  How a game can be in development for as long as SW:TOR and not have support for swimming and day/night cycles (as trivial as all that is), 3rd party add-ons,  dual specs, and a dungeon finder is beyond my level of mental cognizance.

    I just hope the questing is as revolutionary as they make it out to be as I grow tired of developers making WoW-styled MMOs that almost seem intentionally launched 5 steps behind the game they're trying to copy.

  • XerithXerith Member Posts: 970

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Some things do disappoint me.  How a game can be in development for as long as SW:TOR and not have support for swimming and day/night cycles (as trivial as all that is), 3rd party add-ons,  dual specs, and a dungeon finder is beyond my level of mental cognizance.

    I just hope the questing is as revolutionary as they make it out to be as I grow tired of developers making WoW-styled MMOs that almost seem intentionally launched 5 steps behind the game they're trying to copy.

    Swimming would just be silly in TOR. I mean how would they justify the use of lightsabers and blasters under water, especially in such a story heavy game. Beyond that day/night cycles are just completely trivial, and at most people look at them once or twice before completely forgetting it even happens. 

    As for no addons/macros, Im all for it. All these managed to do was make WoW a borefest where the addons half played the game for you, it was to the point where the dungeons had to be created aroud the addons, stuff like DBM and healbot just made it too easy. 

    They never said no dungeon finder, only no cross server dungeon finder, which again is fine by me, Rift is doing the same and its honestly what a lot of people wanted. 

  • rygar218rygar218 Member UncommonPosts: 332

    No day and night cycles, but what of weather? I know you got Hoth and they showed a molten core of hoth where its actually warm in that ice planet. But, what about actual effects.... Sandstorms? Rain? Lightning.... other than coming from a Sith.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Some things do disappoint me.  How a game can be in development for as long as SW:TOR and not have support for swimming and day/night cycles (as trivial as all that is), 3rd party add-ons,  dual specs, and a dungeon finder is beyond my level of mental cognizance.

    I just hope the questing is as revolutionary as they make it out to be as I grow tired of developers making WoW-styled MMOs that almost seem intentionally launched 5 steps behind the game they're trying to copy.

    You mention how you're tired of devs making WoW-styled MMO's/themepark MMO's yet here you are are complaining about how SWTOR misses features that would make it typically even more like WoW and want MMO's to "catch up" to WoW in features they implement, which is kinda ironic: you dislike MMO's copying WoW but you want them to copy WoW even closer?

    Makes no sense.

     

    As for day/night and swimming, would have been great if they were ingame, but I don't miss them much if they're not in: no swimming didn't prevent me from having a great time in GW and Aion and wasn't even a real annoyance, and I find the weather and night/day cycles in current MMO's laughable anyway, really laughable. In EQ nights were really dark, a snowstorm felt like a real snowstorm.

    I wish that MMO's would start going back/stepping up to include more realistic day/night cycles and weather effects than the trivial impact they have now: in night you should require torches or other lighting tools, rainstorms and blizzards should effect your sight and maybe even cause a combat debuff or health sapping effect. Snow should change the landscape with its snow coverage etc.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • ZzadZzad Member UncommonPosts: 1,401

    No pazaak???? lol

    grrrr

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Some things do disappoint me.  How a game can be in development for as long as SW:TOR and not have support for swimming and day/night cycles (as trivial as all that is), 3rd party add-ons,  dual specs, and a dungeon finder is beyond my level of mental cognizance.

    I just hope the questing is as revolutionary as they make it out to be as I grow tired of developers making WoW-styled MMOs that almost seem intentionally launched 5 steps behind the game they're trying to copy.

    You mention how you're tired of devs making WoW-styled MMO's/themepark MMO's yet here you are are complaining about how SWTOR misses features that would make it typically even more like WoW and want MMO's to "catch up" to WoW in features they implement, which is kinda ironic: you dislike MMO's copying WoW but you want them to copy WoW even closer?

    Makes no sense.

     

    As for day/night and swimming, would have been great if they were ingame, but I don't miss them much if they're not in: no swimming didn't prevent me from having a great time in GW and Aion and wasn't even a real annoyance, and I find the weather and night/day cycles in current MMO's laughable anyway, really laughable. In EQ nights were really dark, a snowstorm felt like a real snowstorm.

    I wish that MMO's would start going back/stepping up to include more realistic day/night cycles and weather effects than the trivial impact they have now: in night you should require torches or other lighting tools, rainstorms and blizzards should effect your sight and maybe even cause a combat debuff or health sapping effect. Snow should change the landscape with its snow coverage etc.

    What makes no sense?  WoW has continually reinvented itself and its own model of development by refining its questing model, implementing its dungeon finder, coming up with a guild leveling system (though that idea didn't originate from WoW), and adding quest helpers, yet most games that are released feel more like a far older game than what they're trying to emulate when they should keep all of WoW's features eand improve upon them by implementing them in unique ways and add original new content and features that aren't found in WoW. I mean, Rift has that class system and the "Rifts," but two months after release, and no one is around for Rift raids.  The class system is nice, but it's not so much multiclassing as it is just giving yourself a much larger skill tree to pick and choose from.  I personally have little reason to leave WoW when new games that come out offer me less than older titles outside of prettier graphics I'm not even talking about content, which is something that is only added with time.  I'm talking about features that simply make the games more playable for a larger amount of people.

    I would even argue that dungeon finders and add-on support are two things every MMORPG should have regardless of whether or not the game follows WoW as they simply improve the game's accessibility.

    Really, the "long story short" version of how I feel on that is a game doesn't copy WoW so much by taking features from it, rather it copies WoW by not trying to innovate or to implement existing features in ways that are unique to the game that almost transform the entire purpose of those features.  Of course, sometimes things like a dungeon finder are just modern innovations that every game should have, much like a keyboard hotkey to open your inventory.  Not too many ways to innovate something like that.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    What makes no sense?  WoW has continually reinvented itself and its own model of development by refining its questing model, implementing its dungeon finder, coming up with a guild leveling system (though that idea didn't originate from WoW), and adding quest helpers, yet most games that are released feel more like a far older game than what they're trying to emulate when they should keep all of WoW's features eand improve upon them by implementing them in unique ways and add original new content and features that aren't found in WoW. I mean, Rift has that class system and the "Rifts," but two months after release, and no one is around for Rift raids.  The class system is nice, but it's not so much multiclassing as it is just giving yourself a much larger skill tree to pick and choose from.  I personally have little reason to leave WoW when new games that come out offer me less than older titles outside of prettier graphics I'm not even talking about content, which is something that is only added with time.  I'm talking about features that simply make the games more playable for a larger amount of people.

    I would even argue that dungeon finders and add-on support are two things every MMORPG should have regardless of whether or not the game follows WoW as they simply improve the game's accessibility.

    This is going offtrack, but ok, here it goes:

    - you like WoW and are impressed by it

    - you want other MMO's to have all the features and finetuning and refining that WoW got added and tweaked over 7 years

    - not only should other MMO's have all the features WoW has, it should have even more features and content than WoW has built up in 7 years

    - yet you dislike it when other MMO's remind you of WoW

     

    This is where the contradiction comes in: you think that all new MMO's should follow WoW's model in features and gameplay elements, yet it seems you only find it acceptable that other MMO's imitate WoW when they have all the features WoW has and can surpass it by adding even more features that WoW doesn't have. Sure, I think that there'd be quite some MMO gamers who would think it great if a new MMORPG can be like a WoW but then with 8 years development and tweaking attached to it.

    It's however a race that is hard to win: in my opinion MMO companies shouldn't be trying merely to run a catch-up race but see what they find features used in WoW and  other MMO's that fits their MMO while adding their own features and gameplay elements that differentiate their game from others and in the mix of old and new features will give it its own identity.

     

    Anyway, this is going too far offtrack. I get your viewpoint now, it's just not one I believe in, so I'll agree to disagree image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by SuperXero89



    What makes no sense?  WoW has continually reinvented itself and its own model of development by refining its questing model, implementing its dungeon finder, coming up with a guild leveling system (though that idea didn't originate from WoW), and adding quest helpers, yet most games that are released feel more like a far older game than what they're trying to emulate when they should keep all of WoW's features eand improve upon them by implementing them in unique ways and add original new content and features that aren't found in WoW. I mean, Rift has that class system and the "Rifts," but two months after release, and no one is around for Rift raids.  The class system is nice, but it's not so much multiclassing as it is just giving yourself a much larger skill tree to pick and choose from.  I personally have little reason to leave WoW when new games that come out offer me less than older titles outside of prettier graphics I'm not even talking about content, which is something that is only added with time.  I'm talking about features that simply make the games more playable for a larger amount of people.

    I would even argue that dungeon finders and add-on support are two things every MMORPG should have regardless of whether or not the game follows WoW as they simply improve the game's accessibility.

    This is going offtrack, but ok, here it goes:

    - you like WoW and are impressed by it

    - you want other MMO's to have all the features and finetuning and refining that WoW got added and tweaked over 7 years

    - not only should other MMO's have all the features WoW has, it should have even more features and content than WoW has built up in 7 years

    - yet you dislike it when other MMO's remind you of WoW

     

    This is where the contradiction comes in: you think that all new MMO's should follow WoW's model in features and gameplay elements, yet it seems you only find it acceptable that other MMO's imitate WoW when they have all the features WoW has and can surpass it by adding even more features that WoW doesn't have. Sure, I think that there'd be quite some MMO gamers who would think it great if a new MMORPG can be like a WoW but then with 8 years development and tweaking attached to it.

    It's however a race that is hard to win: in my opinion MMO companies shouldn't be trying merely to run a catch-up race but see what they find features used in WoW and  other MMO's that fits their MMO while adding their own features and gameplay elements that differentiate their game from others and in the mix of old and new features will give it its own identity.

     

    Anyway, this is going too far offtrack. I get your viewpoint now, it's just not one I believe in, so I'll agree to disagree image

    I really don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

    I think the best way to simplify how I feel is to use an insanely overblown example.  Basically,  UO, which for the purpose of this example is the very first MMORPG ever made, had grouping, and it was a big hit amongst the population.  Along comes EQ1 which is quite different from UO, but it also has grouping.  Similarly, I feel that ALL MMORPGs with instanced dungeons should have a dungeon finder even though they might not exactly be anything like each other, and I feel that ALL MMORPGs should have support for 3rd party add-ons, as while there's a vocal minority who oppose them, and I have no evidence to back up what I'm about to say, I think it's rather elementary to deduce that the general population has no problems with these features. 

    Conversely, it makes little enough sense as it is for some games to nearly clone an entire game only to tack on a couple unique aspects here and there, but if they're going to do so, they should at least make sure that what what they're developing is of the same quality.  How do the quests compare to WoW?  How do the dungeons compare to WoW?  How does the progression compare to WoW?  How many features does WoW have that ___ doesn't have?  How many features does ____ have that WoW doesn't have?  As mentioned, dungeon finders and add-ons are two things that I feel are simply part of the natural evolution of the genre, hence, adding those things into a game isn't really what I consider "copying WoW even more" as much as I consider it fitting in with the natural evolution of the genre.

    As what I mean by wanting a game that takes in everything within WoW while putting its own spin on existing ideas and implementing new ideas, WoW itself is the perfect example.  There was little if anything in WoW that wasn't already in EQ.  Sure, maybe WoW had it easy since EQ was really only a group grind game, and progression through WoW has since become far more complex, but at WoW's heart and soul, it was basically kill, level, and raid, which was exactly the heart of EQ, yet the way in which the two games went about doing each of those things was drastically different.  Not even mentioning the combat system, players couldn't just kill random mobs and expect to level at a resonable pace, they had to quest, and the mobs they killed had to be related to their quests.  As a result, leveling was via quests, and those quests weren't exactly group friendly.  No,  WoW "casualized" the MMORPG market by allowing the solo player to advance to the max level with just as much ease as a group player.  Even the endgame was casualized.  Raiding in EQ1 was a hardcore affair, consisting of a few top guilds per server that had rediculous requirements in terms of player skill, time commitments, and, player gear in order to join.  WoW raids require far less people, are considered easier by relying more on platforming abilities than class knowledge, and are accessible to pretty much anyone with relatively minimal effort in comparison to EQ1's backflagging and previous expansion gear progression.

    Lets see a game that is casual friendly and a game that has quests (imaginative quests), but lets see a game that takes those features for granted.  Lets see a game that does to quest leveling what WoW did to mob grinding.  How can developers do that?  No idea, but I'm not the one who gets paid to sit around and think about those things.  What I do know is actual progress in the genre is relatively laughable compared to the vast amount of different experiences we had shortly after the launch of WoW and prior to it. SW:TOR promises to emphasize story in an MMORPG and that combined with fully voiced NPCs may put a more unique spin on the quest grind that makes it all seem like more than just an endless list of menial tasks, but that remains to be seen.  It just saddens me that there are features that I think every MMO should take for granted aren't looked upon as favorably as I think they should be, but that's really a topic for another thread.

  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,138

    So the Cantina will be empty, or close to without mini games. That is a shame. The mini games would have been a great thing for them, and it would have been thier chance to add many game aspects to thier game to attract more people. Seems like a bad move for launch in a WoW-pwned and WoW clone market. Good luck BW, you might be our only hope.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

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