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Technically human "nature" would be to find a suitable mate...not easiest mate that can give the highest probablilty to reproduce. That is why animals tend to shy away from reproducing with disabled, young, or too old animals. Satisfaction of lust would be with the easiest. There is a difference.
Plenty of people did. Still...
There's plenty of difference between the amount of common sense and intelligence we expect out of an 11 year old and an 18 year old.
I mean, seriously, if there's an 11 year old with an 18 year old babysitter, and the house catches on fire because they were cooking some food and then they both got bored and left the stove on and went to watch TV...
... people gonna' blame the 18 year old. A 7 year age difference is pretty extreme for 'levels of not being stupid' you come to expect from a person, specifically where 7 years of age is nearly =2/3rds= of the lifespan of one of the two people.
Society is also there the make sure you're not able to. You guys all like to talk big in hypothetical discussions but when it comes down to it cold blooded murder isnt as easy as you people make it sound. I have 2 daughters, both grown wi husbands and kids of thier own. would I have killed for them? most definitly but only if that was the only option availble, which it never is. you would do the same thing I'd do in that situation, call the cops.
This guys biggest crime that will get him the prison time will be transporting or facilitating the transport of a minor across states lines without consent of the parents...aka...Kidnapping.
There is a possiblity that they will only charge him with a federal Teir I sex crime...which can be commuted to counseling and registration for 15 years as a sexual offender. Violating the condition would make it a 25 year registration. There is the possiblity of 1-5 years in jail, but Teir I's usually do not spend time.
The Kidnapping can be much more serious....but the Feds also have the right to turn the case over to the home state of the juvenile for the kidnapping charges. US Marshalls would transport the 18 year old.
No matter what the 18 year old did not have the right to entice a minor to leave or house a peron he knowingly was hiding or facilitated hiding from their parent or legal guardian unless the child is emancipated.
I do not believe you have seen felines mate. They target specifically the ones that have the least likely to attack. Same with chimps.
The smaller ones with the smallest claws.
LARGELY because society is in the way! I realize that there is a jail sentence waiting if I step wrong. The whole original point is that I was just saying that somebody should be GLAD there is only a jail sentence and being roughed up in jail waiting for them, when the ALTERNATIVE (What I would have to do as a parent with no other recourse) would be if society was not protecting them thusly. Though I think you're drastically underestimating how willing I'd be to injure somebody.
Awkward things in life? Finding out your new supervisor is somebody you're FAIRLY sure you strangled when you were younger. ... except you're not totally sure if it was him or his cousin.
... but how do you ask your supervisor 'Excuse me, did I make you cry like a little girl and choke on the ground? Because I'm wondering if you hold that against me.'
Of course, I have more to lose nowadays, so I don't break bones anymore, but that doesn't mean I CAN'T. It just means I'm a responsible citizen.
... and my whole point was not "I'm going to go killing everybody', my original point (Which I'll admit, I got off track), was that the kind of things people were advocating happening were actually mostly mild compared to the non-civilized option could be. ... and my true point is IDEALLY, that everybody pays attention to the contract, and nothing has to go horribly wrong. Because things can go wrong.
I'm not saying I'd drive 1000 miles (probably) to maim some 18 year old... but if I walked in on him in the same situation the cops did?
Yeah. I actually think I could probably get off with justifiable homicide. No. Seriously. I'm not even kidding. Somebody would have to be pretty cold hearted and inhuman to not see how something could go REALLY TRAGICALLY BAD in a situation like that.
(PS. Yeah, cold blooded murder is a lot harder. It requires calculation. Forethought. Planning. Not so much a justifiable homicide there. Which is part of why what the guy did was so bad... forethought, planning, calculation... sure, it was RETARDED forethought, but being stupid doesn't make somebody less wrong automatically.)
(edit: Yeah. Actually, in case you haven't noticed, I'm technically kind of a horrible person on the inside. I am EXCEEDINGLY violent in my thoughts, and previously actions. I'm not the world's nicest person. I am filled with all sorts of hateful thoughts that sometimes make me wonder what's wrong with me. Luckily, society is here to save us all! I am an exceedingly lawful person. Since I dont' actually hurt people, that makes me a good person! Not a sociopath at ALL.)
Cats are a different species...in the fact that the female cat is the one that picks a mate. If a female cat does not like the male she usually kicks his ass or escapes. The male must wait for a female to be willing and allow the male then the male jumps on. The male does not get to select the female.
Chimps will not mate with a female that has not had her first first estrous cycle and is more likely to reproduce. Also a Chimp will mate for lust with multiple partners during the year, but tend to have one mating partner a fertile cycle.
Can find that stuff easy on internet...cats I know my cousin breeds them...things are worth a lot...I would never pay $400 for a cat.
yeah I was just noting how REALLY well balanced you are, lol
As much as I understand where you are coming from, that sounds like something a teenager would say. If that's how you feel, you may not be so different from Mr. Trowell in your lack of restraint.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I would say the difference is in saying you might do it or even would do it and actually doing it when the opportunity presented. Trowell did it. Most talk a good talk, but do not walk the walk.
Like others such as you may say to opposing arguments on parental matters.
'Obviously you aren't a killer.'
Around ~30% annual unsolved has been the standard for a while, not including those that couldn't be cleared in court or otherwise.
Granted arson and violence are statistically easier to get away with still.
Mostly it just boils down to timing and preparation to avoid unnecessary contamination (creaton of evidence). Post crime processing of evidence can be relegated to disposal and that ain't hard either.
Not condoning it or anything, just saying good forethought makes little chance for repercussion.
Likewise though, that applies to legal actions too. Good forethought can help prevent many problems. In the case of this there was equal parts slip up and sneaking. The parents did work towards resolution on the matter and it would only have been by extaordinary means that they'd have barred some of this from taking place.
Yes, they could have gone so far as monitoring the daughter to make sure that she didn't go anywhere or do anything like say hop on a plane, but what would it have taken for them to do so? I assume the daughter waited on this to some degree, even for an opportunity as simple as when they're asleep. Hard to monitor something when you're asleep unless you're abusive and lock them in a cage.
Pretty much they would have had to have been very witty in their maneuverings and put more forethought into locking down the two's interaction, most likely by geeting to the guy. I don't mean threats or 'talks'. More so by locking down his ability to interact with the daughter, or via replacing his presence online with another by mild tampering with her account.
Like for example, while she's not online you squelch the guy before they get to the out of game talking?
Or do that and spin a new character with as close a name as possible to the guy's character so that you have a means of letting the girl down off the relationship?
Or if it progresses that far, get his number blocked through your carrier.
Or again swap numbers on her phone with that of another (not your own) and get her to let go of the relationship.
Can ban e-mails from him to her as well.
You don't have to force anything on her directly, but you can sway the environment without beating anything with a stick. Just be a subtle puppetmaster?
Er, parent.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You're right, my point was, if we keep at your example and set those two into the house, then the 11year old is running into the fire to save the guys playstation -no instinct to keep herself save at all.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Last try:
Your daughter is now your son. Bit of a shy nerd, plays too much WoW, no girlfriend although he's already 18. Loveable guy tho, just needs to get out a little more. But then, surprise: He meets a girl on WoW that is totally into him for whatever reason. He says she's 14 and he wants to meet her because he likes her as well. Awesome! Was about time, too.
A few days later, some doctor calls and tells you that your son will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair - Yep, the girl's father, that f*cking lunatic, beat your son half-dead for no reason other than that the girl turned out to be 12, not 14. He doesn't even show any regrets.
Come on - don't you hate that lunatic guy who did that to your son? There is NO excuse for what he did.
Hype train -> Reality
Absolutely not. I've gone 34 years of my life without seriously injuring people (... for a given value of the word seriously), despite constantly thinking it would actually be pretty interesting.
I am the very model of restraint. I constantly resist my baser impulses! I'm basically like Buddha.
If you don't have any bad impulses, you're not really a good person, you're just a person doing the stuff you want.
In fact, I'm actually remarkably restrained in the way I communicate with people too! Like I have a friend who I used to always talk about torture techniques with, but =I= never told somebody 'I'm thinking what it would feel like to put this cigarette out in your eye' when they asked what I was thinking (PS. Need to break up with a girlfriend fast? Apparently this technique is AMAZING.). I don't threaten to hurt people, or tell them what I'm thinking about them.
So how would I be anything other than the epitome of what everybody should strive for with restraint?
In fact, I'm actually fairly sure I'd even act this way even IF the alternative of being arrested wasn't being enforced. Because I've thought through the moral implications of being a bad person. The whole 'treat others like you'd want to be treated' kind of thing.
I'm actually really confused (Still), that people can't tell the difference between proactive and reactive inappropriateness.
It's hard to even CONCEIVE of the concept of Mr. Trowell doing what he did reactively... maybe if nuclear war happened and society collapsed and in the hideous, mutant-strewn wastelands of America, he found this young girl with pure genetic material, and was like 'Well, shoot, I always kept it in my mind, but we've totally got to repopulate the planet in this underground bunker, but it's not MY FAULT, I was pushed into this by forces well beyond my control'
(PS. Penis does not, or should not at least, count as 'forces well beyond my control'. Cold showers.)
If she was my daughter.........I would have taken bereavement leave from work lol.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I'm sorry, but if my son was like 'Look dad, it seemed like a REALLY great plan, she'd convince her parents she died, I'd ship her across state borders to squat in our next door house, and she was 14 dad. =14=. Not even 12, like that other guy', I would feel really bad, and apologize to the dad.
I wouldn't even ask the man to pay for the wheelchair.
I'd also wonder why my son is so stupid. Yet not quite stupid enough due to the level of planning he showed, so I can't even feel better with the 'Well, my son is actually mentally handicapped and incapable of making any rational decisions' excuse.
Seriously, context man. CONTEXT. It makes a huge difference.
You forgot parts of the story like the part where my son tells me 'Hey, her mom has been telling me to leave her the hell alone for 8 months, so I tried driving over there and the cops made me turn around'.
Context. Uhm. Hey! Did I mention context?
Don't use your totally different example.
That's like me saying 'Imagine that this murderer... just had a really bad fungus infection. This of his axe as this bottle of foot spray'
Meeting a 12 year old girl you thought is 14 (For platonic reasons) is COMPLETELY different from what he did.
... and yes. Yes, I would tell my son that being romantically involved with even a 14 year old girl is really inappropriate and going to get him in a world of trouble, and I had a friend who went to jail for that so I'm pretty familiar with the concept that it's a bad idea. Maybe try to get the two of them to talk. It could be awkward bonding time for them! He could realize that he couldn't play WoW once he's viewed as a sex offender who's into minors. That should get him to man up and do the responsible thing... ditch the girl and get another level 85 hunter from scratch.
(In case you couldn't guess, I'm not really cool with my theoretical son being a creepy 18 year old who is breaking the law. I'd feel BAD for him that his legs were broken, but I wouldn't be clutching my head and screaming 'Oh god why? WHY?', I'd be like 'I know why. I really thought my genes were a little better than this.' _
I just have to inject that the above reply was amazing.
I'd have to first note the legal age of consent where I live (16) and that the legal rammifications are not to be trifled with. I would have to then also note that meeting some one online, while it has lead to happy couplings, is equally offset by the amount of marriages annually that fail due to them being based on love and no deeper or more rational sense of compatibility and relation.
I'd also have to know why he's taken such a fancy to another, the motives, and rationale.
It'd result in a meeting of the minds as far as parents are concerned beforehand, to be sure everyone is on the same page. If not the parents, i'd at least have to get in contact with the girl to verify.
If things don't check out, then I couldn't approve of the relationship and if my child kept pressing the matters beyond sane means, i'd have to take some degree of leniency over the repercussions of his ignorance in spite of warnings.
If this all happened without my consent, then I'd have to wonder what kinda moron every one participating is, including myself for not having a daft damn clue before hand. Sure I'd feel much wrath over whoever just did that to my kid, but I'd have equal parts ire towards my own child, the girl, and myself for the lies, deceit, and lack of information disseminated that resulted in such a poorly managed indicent and resulting fiasco.
Ignorance is not an excuse for wrongdoing.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I wasn't referring to the risk involved. sure any rational, intelligent individual could plan it to minimise the chance of getting caught. I was talking about actually doing the deed. looking someone in the eyes then ending thier life. its not the laws that stops most people from doing such things, its the reason such laws were put into place. when you kill someone you take everything from them, everything they could have been is gone, yet some of these posts make is sound as esy a decision to make as shutting off a leaking faucet.
To be honest, even if the parents were okay with it, I probably would not be so cool with my 18 year old son dating a 14 year old girl.
That's not an equal relationship. 14 year olds and 18 year olds are at pretty different places in their life. I'd tell him to scale it back to friendship, and wait at least a couple years. If it can't last 2 years, it was a bad idea in the first place.
... wait, maybe the problem is me. I just look at behavior like this and think 'Wow, that's really desperate and pathetic, where's your self control?', not 'It's wuv! True wuv! He couldn't help himself!'. What kind of love are you getting on WoW between an 18 year old and a 14 year old? :T
He is 18, she is 12 => pedophile. People like him should be locked up...
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Well that's an entirely different problem.
People have this lovely habit of dehumanizing anything that they don't like. The les spersonal it is, the less likely they put it anywhere's near on par with themselves as far as a free thinking living organism goes.
The key to doing such a thing is by dropping it into particular mental categories. That's part of why there's so many murder crimes that are considered 'acts of passion'. They are on the spot emotional responses that drives another to extreme physical response. In this case that results in death.
That's also why there's this lovely status and statistic regarding the ever present and in fact not at all reduced status of post tramuatic stress in troops and people who are involved in violence and murder under emotional duress.
I'd be perfectly willing to believe that every person that says they would kill under these circumstances actually could and would. It truly is like shutting off a leaky faucet, only in this regard the faucet happens to be the one dripping sanity into that sponge we call a brain.
Granted, I'm one of those people that believes you need to be at peace with one's actions. Your resolve needs to be centered on accepting that you are about to take another living thinking being that is very much your equal as far as cosmic scale goes and remove them from this world.
More or less, it's premeditated versus responsive. People here would just respond. Considering the results comes after, and I'm sure many would actually agree with you post blood haze that it was a pretty terrible idea.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
If I had an 18 year old son under your premise. He tells me he wants to drive acrossed state lines or better yet fly the girl acrossed state lines. That even if she lied and said "14" she'd be under age of consent...
and at no time do I explain to him about child molestation laws. what being a registered sex offender for the rest of his life would mean. That I wouldn't explain to him what would happen to him when he went to prison with that specific conviction...
and I'm supposed to be worried about whether or not the girls parent was responsible or had an excuse to beat him into a coma? I'd say I must not give a crap about my own kid.. if he was gonna tell me all this.
and all the while the main flow of this thread is.. nobody gives a crap that a child who isn't expected to make adult decesions.. is taken advantage of by someone who is legally an adult.
Sad beyond belief.
Excuse me but the one with the asinine comments here is you.
I am a divorced parent and when i have my little girl over my place I DO watch her internet activities. I know every moment what she is doing and when she plays her huntress in WoW i keep a close eye, discrete but close. When i say "time to log off", that's exactly what happens. In case i don't have the time to be near her while she is at the pc i check the browsers history index and cookies. There are easy, one button to use, utilities for this stuff you know.
And how on Earth did a 11 year old girl purchase an airplane ticket? Obviously she used a credit card which of course was not hers. So please, spare me the sorry excuses and that karma BS. Yes, being a parent these days is not easy, sometimes it gets quite overwhelming. But it is not supposed to be a walk in the park. Bottom line: It IS the girls parents fault. End of story.
Yeah, but that's also why I mention the legal age of consent thing.
And also yes I agree there's too much of a discrepancy in maturity (as far as how mature they're 'supposed' to be) for me to readily condone most relationships like that. I'd have to know they're both amazingly level headed for their age before being able to agree with a relationship like that, and I'd still be wary.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin