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Combat Discussion using the new Sith Warrior Progression Trailer
ktanner3
Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
I can't WAIT to play that as my main 
Having said that I'm curious as to what some people's problem is with the combat system in this game. In this video you see a lightsaber blocking blaster bolts multiple times and lightsabers clashing. Basically you have lightsaber fighting very similiar to what you are used to seeing in the movies. The only other thing you could do to improve this would be to have one hit kills, but in an MMORPG that isn't going to happen. In ranged we have classes that can cover behind rocks and pop up and shoot. Bounty hunters can fire from mid air. Bodies seem to react when they are hit by something.
This is NOT the hack n slash/ boring combat that you see in WOW where two people are just standing there in front of each other and swinging an arm. So just what is it about the combat that is bad and how could it be better?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
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Not sure what problem people have but that video made me rethink my sith warrior advanced class. I did not know the marauder got a form of stealth. Makes sense since the sith assassin's in KOTOR got stealth.
I can feel your anger. This game is defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike this game down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards towards the Dark Side will be complete.
yea we just learned about that a few weeks ago, in the advanced class dev blog that was released. The ability is called force cloak and its a 6 second incombat stealth that increases run speed by 30%
http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110408
Sith Warrior Advanced Classes
Sith Marauder (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing. Wields dual Lightsabers)
Sith Juggernaut (Roles: Close Range Damage Dealing, Tanking. Wields a single Lightsaber)
As with the Jedi Guardian, we have given the Juggernaut Advanced Class access to a skill tree that focuses on damage dealing using a single Lightsaber. Previously the high damage dealing option was only available to the Marauder Advanced Class.
Similar to the Jedi Sentinel, the damage dealing-centric Marauder Advanced Class’ offensive arsenal has been significantly reworked and diversified, now allowing for several very different play styles. The Marauder also gained access to a new ability called Force Cloak, granting a short term combat stealth.
So far from what I have seen it is still basically the same type of combat as in WoW. That in itself is one of the main things I dislike about this game.
Before anyone throws a hissy fit at what I said, this is all IMO.
Its fine if its in your opinion but I think all (Most) mmo combat even the up coming GW2 combat is like WoW, as in you still have to press 1-x to use your abilities, exact game mechanics my be different but how you go about actually fighting isn't.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
One hit kills? Don't think so. LOL! This is not how the game plays. This is.
This is the combat you'll encounter. <<< clicky
Seemed fun to me.
Better then this at least.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HkkjtdUGbU
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I agree Snaylor47. I don't want 1-hit kills... I don't remember many 1-hit kills between the jedi/sith in the movies - I remember awesome battles with lots of blocked blaster bolts / saber swings /etc.
I don't want yet another SW FPS. I want a story-driven MMO.
Yeah that trailer is awesome. Animations look great. Also the secondary ones: npc's first turning their heads if they detect you, rather than facing and charging you in one go.
All in all it looks like there will be a lot of difference in how classes feel. Marauder is obviously one of the most mobile ones while an agent sniper would be a static one, relying more on positioning and tactics. Leaning towards a marauder myself at this time but both ends of the spectrum look great to me.
The cool thing though, is how classes have multiple roles, a ton of support functionality and how every class has an out of combat self-heal and a resurect. Even single player content is hard enough to need to heal yourself after engagements, (rather than relying on a fast regen) and the resurect means less downtime in group content (unless the wipes are complete of course).
p.s. is that lightsaber boomerang throw a warrior base skills or limited to jugernauts? I hope not. Sexy move that and probably a handy finisher on fleeing people on low health in pvp.
My brand new bloggity blog.
since in early videos and screenshots of knights show them using saber throwon tython, im guessing it is a base class ability(which would be the same for the warrior). however the animation between the advanced classes may end up being different because they mentioned how base skills will change depending on how you spec your skill trees. an example of this that was given was for the consulars rock throw. if you used your points 1 way , the skill would pull multiple rocks out of the ground and fling them. speced another way you would pull out a much bigger rock. ill see if i can find the dev post about it and edit in to my post.
edit: found it but i was little off in my explanation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KivanSane
I have heard that the shadow spec of the jedi consular will not be able to self heal.
But I have heard consulars get a healing spell that works on themselves and others before level 10.
So , the obvious question .
When you choose an AC , do you lose all your pre-level 10 abilities ? Do you lose some of them ? Keep them all ? What exactly happens ?
Yes, you keep all abilities from your base class, we do not believe in removing abilities due to Advanced Class choices. In fact, you will continue gaining a significant number of abilities from your base class as you advance through the game - although their detailed mechanics can very often change dramatically based on your skill choices.
Example: All Consulars have the 'Project' ability seen in various videos (using the force to throw accelerate large rock into enemies). However, depending on Advanced Class skill choices, the damage and secondary effect of those rocks may differ from Consular to Consular. Some are even capable of throwing more than one rock at a time...
As for this particular scenario, please remember that ability progression is one of those things that constantly changes until launch.
Also, just in case that wasn't clear - abilities that you gain through your base class continue to improve. They don't phase out or become useless because you chose an Advanced Class.
i know this doesn't really answer your question about saber throw but oh well. XD
Thanks for the info gaou
Good to know that.
My brand new bloggity blog.
It's not even WoW style actually, it's been done in numerous single player games before MMO's, because it's a working and popular RPG play style. You select what you want to attack or help and then you select with what skills and abilities. Kotors, Baldur's Gate's basically and a hoard of other similar titles from other devs basically use the same concept.
It's like saying Battlefield 3 is crap because it's like Quake, you aim and shoot.
It's a pity people get hate'd up of some title because they hate something else that did not even invent the similar gameplay that gets the flames, I guess that's just how MMO communities are, based on mmorpg.com and some other interwebs mmo discuss boards at least
It's good it's problem only to people who let the name of some other title bother them.
If the problem is simply the dislike of the combat system and how it works in principle, then there is very very few notable MMO titles to even go about, maybe try MMORTS if it has to be MMO game, oh and there's Firefall coming later this year.
I thought I was done with themeparks, but that looks entirely bad-ass.
Game will be 50% Sith for sure lol. Just how WoW was 50% rogues.
I always thought they could have.."one hit kills" in mmos. Especially with weapon tracking. The key would be to have the main bar.....something other than a health bar. A "defense" bar..or "tide of battle " bar..idk..call it whatever fits the game. This would be the bar that dwindles down or gets "healed" with morale potions..or recuperate potions...whatever...when this "whatever bar" is depleted and the enemy has been overcome...then health would go quickly...and with power attacks..or a decent lightsaber attack could one-hit for the win. Some classes may have constitution or endurance abilities..that might help defend against one hits...but once their "whatever bar" is depleted..it would be extremely hard to win the battle..not impossible to come back at the last minute...but not very likely either.. That would make it seem like an actually battle (with weapons tracking...parrying..shield blocking..dodging)... ending in killing blows that would actually connect to the body.
Actually if you go check TOR message boards the forum activity is quite even matched with different classes which hopefully means there wont be flood of a certain single class.
romanator0, have you ever seen an ACTUAL sword fight? I'm not talking movie crap, but a real fencing match in which the ONLY way to score points is to actually hit your opponent? I've got news for you, more than 95% of the blows are specifically directed at the opponents weapon in order to distract them and attempt to move his weapon out of your intended attack path. In other words, not every attack is a killing blow and in fact the vast majority won't be, at least not if you intend to actually win (i.e. - survive). What I am seeing in the SWTOR videos is SO realistic it is almost scarey.
Now if you don't like it, that's fine, but you may just want to stick with the statement of "I don't like the sword fighting animations" instead of complaining because the animations do not look like a completely unrealistic movie which is going for excitement, not realism.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Good point. When I think of master sword fighters and how they would fight. I see a dance of swords. A mix of deffense and offense to open holes in the opponents defense. So you will try to deflect the sword, feint an attack or defense move, dodge and block until someone makes a mistake or someone is overwellmed and the opening is there for a wound or kill move.
Obviously the word realistic shouldn't be said in the same sentance as the name Star Wars. But blaster shots being blocked by lightsabers or lightsabers hitting each other in a fight are something that should be seen in a SW game. Without it, the game would not be a SW game. So I am very happy with this video and others in the direction the combat will be taking. Especially when I think about level cap when every class has all the toys and skills to play with.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Uhm . . . so basically you think combat in a MMO should be just like it is now but with a new look to the bars for health or whatever. It already is a slow wear down and kill process with a slight chance to make a come back in the end. Instead of a whatever bar slowly wearing down though, it is the health bar that wears down. Really though, it is the same thing in the end.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Never said I had a game changing idea. I think it one that would simulate battle a bit better. Instead of wacking a body over and over...it would simulate actual blocking/parrying/dodging with maybe an occasional body hit...then when the "whatever bar" is depleted...and the target is near helpless..the animations would change where you strike down the enemy with blows that obviously hit the body the killing stroke or fianl one- shot. The depleting of the whatever bar is merely the prerequisite prior ro actually cutting down your opponent. It's really more of a visual change that occurs with a cue...instead of blade on blade..or blaster on armore...you finally get to the head shot or run them through with a sabre or sword. . AOC combos end like this but still it involves back and forth mauling to get there...this would just appear a bit more like actual sword or weapon play. That's all. If the extra bar seems too much..then just make it just as I describe combat -wise and have the animation change at 1-5% health or what ever percent leaves the off chance for a dramatic come back...while enabling animations for the final kill.
Good points. I just have to wonder if the poster has even seen a Star Wars movie. Pick any movie and you see lightsabers clashing all the time so I don't get how it doesn't look like the movies. There's nothing childish about it. It's sure a hell of a lot more realistic than the saber combat is in SWG, where players are just standing in front of each other hacking away. Then TOR would REALLY be copying WOW.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft