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A Gold Farmer's Paradise?

BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 812

When I saw the "hype" rating for this title, I started browsing the forum posts for some idea of what this MMO might entail.  I saw a lot of positive feedback, and some hopeful speculations.  However, if there is one thing I've seen plague every MMO as of late, and ESPECIALLY Korean-based MMO's, it's the massive wave of currency farmers, bots, and currency spam from sellers.

When AION was still in its beta stage, gold sellers were already in business spamming their wares, and the efforts to curb that activity were minimal at best.  While I do see some MMO developers making a concentrated effort to reduce gold seller spam and bots, I am wondering how much of an effort XL Games will make towards blocking gold sellers from annoying the hell out of their subscribers, and how bad will the bot infestation be?

Of the many MMOs I've tried either as released titles or as betas, Korean-based MMOs have been the worst at maintaining the other-worldliness of their environments by not taking their subscribers seriously, and not really making a strong effort to prohibit currency spam and bots.

Has anyone seen feedback from a developer yet that makes any mention of addressing this issue?

Comments

  • EphimeroEphimero Member Posts: 1,860

    The ammount of gold farmers will always rely on the demand. Is this a gold farmer's paradise? Hard to know without understanding how the gold demand will be, and harder to know without knowing who will be taking care of this game in the western market.

    We would need to know more about the equipment system, the economy of the game and the drop rates. Knowing where it's from says little, even if your experience says it does, you haven't played all the korean made MMOs since many of them have a low value on gold, rendering gold farmers useless.

     

    Also, I want to add that, as an avid MMO player, the efforts NCsoft did to remove gold farmers from Aion on the second month after the release were remarkable, which doesn't excuse the awfull first month, though.

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240

    Heres the problem with ANY MMO. You make a F2P add a cash shop , you can curb the gold spammers to a point. Then ppl just buy from the game company to hit that "Win" button. You make a monthy sub game then you have mass amounts of gold spammers selling gold to ppl who pay to hit that "Win" button.

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • genkidashitegenkidashite Member Posts: 41

    The dev team is fully aware of the problems gold farming creates. All I know is that they said 'We will not tolerate any botting and gold farming using such methods. We are in search of ways to techinically limit them" during a developer-gamer casual meeting couple years back. Is it possible? I dont have the answer. Probably no one does.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905

    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    When I saw the "hype" rating for this title, I started browsing the forum posts for some idea of what this MMO might entail.  I saw a lot of positive feedback, and some hopeful speculations.  However, if there is one thing I've seen plague every MMO as of late, and ESPECIALLY Korean-based MMO's, it's the massive wave of currency farmers, bots, and currency spam from sellers.

    When AION was still in its beta stage, gold sellers were already in business spamming their wares, and the efforts to curb that activity were minimal at best.  While I do see some MMO developers making a concentrated effort to reduce gold seller spam and bots, I am wondering how much of an effort XL Games will make towards blocking gold sellers from annoying the hell out of their subscribers, and how bad will the bot infestation be?

    Of the many MMOs I've tried either as released titles or as betas, Korean-based MMOs have been the worst at maintaining the other-worldliness of their environments by not taking their subscribers seriously, and not really making a strong effort to prohibit currency spam and bots.

    Has anyone seen feedback from a developer yet that makes any mention of addressing this issue?

     

    My GF tried Rift on the free weekend and the only chat (more or less) she saw in the first hour was gold spam. She walked past 3 characters standing in the tutorial area just there just to spam. It's just a sad fact in modern games, Eatern or Western, and I am sure AA will attract some if it is successful.

    Personally I am ready for them and will just ignore as I go.

    Anyhow, they are only in CB3 so it would be pretty early for them to start talking about this... what other game do you know that was addressing the issue in their CB?

  • k11keeperk11keeper Member UncommonPosts: 1,048

    It's sad but I can't remember the last game I played where that wasn't a problem on some level. The kill bots that just run around and kill everything are the worst. In other games they hoard the monsters that drop unique items, some games they spam in the chat, or spam you with whisper. That's my experience from Western and Eastern games, all have the problem. Hopefully XL games will have measures to lower the amount of this, that's really all we can hope for anymore.

  • PsycsPsycs Member UncommonPosts: 20

    As far as botting goes I think the most sophisticated bot was the Lineage 2 Walker. I don't remember how they delt with that, but Walker was on a whole another level compared to the bots you see now a days. I worry a bot like that might come out for ArcheAge when its released. But who knows :

  • KharmedKharmed Member Posts: 101

    I tried L2Walker to see how it worked and you are right. The program was very advanced. Didn't even have to open the client everything was done remotely, there was also a table that allowed you to add messages when special <events> happened. Such as a gm or player talking to you, a player getting near you and when you were getting attacked by something else than a mob. There was also the <oh shit> event where you could activate a forced log out.

     

    You could pretty much script your way to making a semi-competent human if you spent your time setting it up correctly. It helped me understand who botted and who didn't. It was easy for me to hit someone and see an auto-reply, cause most people just took the basic set up.

    image

  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Member UncommonPosts: 1,022

    give me a pk system and i will solve it my way.

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,638

    Originally posted by genkidashite

    The dev team is fully aware of the problems gold farming creates. All I know is that they said 'We will not tolerate any botting and gold farming using such methods. We are in search of ways to techinically limit them" during a developer-gamer casual meeting couple years back. Is it possible? I dont have the answer. Probably no one does.

    I hate to say it but it seems that it would be so easy to just hire someone to remove players who are spamming gold advertisements.

    I'm not even talking about banning. I'm talking about right clicking (or doing whatever) and removing them from the game so taht a higher lvl gm can make the official ban call.

    In Aion I was constantly reporting, and having removed, the players who were setting up shops with gold advertsements.

    At one point the spam itself was so bad that in one of my "Secret life of walter mitty" moments I thought "I could just remove them now and quickly and it would clear things up so nicely.




  • k11keeperk11keeper Member UncommonPosts: 1,048

    That's actually a really good idea. If you hired players or gave certain ones the power to do that it would clean things up quick. It would also be easy to keep people from abusing it because if they did they easily revoke that privilege and then you can't complain about bots because you had your chance.

  • Musket-SquidMusket-Squid Member UncommonPosts: 380

    I like  how eve has the player moderators run the noobie channel. keeps it clean and on topic for the most part and they can ban people from the channel too.

    How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

    I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,504

    Originally posted by genkidashite

    The dev team is fully aware of the problems gold farming creates. All I know is that they said 'We will not tolerate any botting and gold farming using such methods. We are in search of ways to techinically limit them" during a developer-gamer casual meeting couple years back. Is it possible? I dont have the answer. Probably no one does.

    That's mostly the norm for all game developers to say.   All mmo's have the potential to be a gold farmers paradise, regardless of where the game is made.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,638

    Originally posted by k11keeper

    That's actually a really good idea. If you hired players or gave certain ones the power to do that it would clean things up quick. It would also be easy to keep people from abusing it because if they did they easily revoke that privilege and then you can't complain about bots because you had your chance.

    the thing is I don't trust players.

    Not to say that there wouldn't be some great player moderators but when you get volunteers who are players I can easily imagine that someone is going to eventually cross over into favoritism or doing something unpofessional.

    I realize that the other poster mentioned EVE as being a game that has players moderate but would that really work in every game?

    And are there no abuses?

    I'd want someone on the payroll and full time. I'd want it to be a critical job that was part of the gm team and fully trained.

    And I'd want them to be highly professional. I have seem some forums where the company gm/cm's were saying things that I'd have issue with.




  • neonakaneonaka Member UncommonPosts: 779

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by k11keeper

    That's actually a really good idea. If you hired players or gave certain ones the power to do that it would clean things up quick. It would also be easy to keep people from abusing it because if they did they easily revoke that privilege and then you can't complain about bots because you had your chance.

    the thing is I don't trust players.

    Not to say that there wouldn't be some great player moderators but when you get volunteers who are players I can easily imagine that someone is going to eventually cross over into favoritism or doing something unpofessional.

    I realize that the other poster mentioned EVE as being a game that has players moderate but would that really work in every game?

    And are there no abuses?

    I'd want someone on the payroll and full time. I'd want it to be a critical job that was part of the gm team and fully trained.

    And I'd want them to be highly professional. I have seem some forums where the company gm/cm's were saying things that I'd have issue with.

    I have always thought this was a real simple fix for game companies, though I have never seen one yet use this method.

     

    Step 1: Restrict all chat for trial accounts except vacinity chat - you want to chat on the world channels or whisper other players - sure thing purchase the game. (spamming a chat radius of what you can see doesn't pull in profit, not to mention GM's usually have the ability to teleport at any location within the game world, if the spammer gets reported for spamming a vacinity, GM can deal with it)

    Step 2: Since all players speaking across world chat have payed good money to play your game, that means you actaully made profit as a company from dumbass gold spammers who are going to test you anyway. You hire 5 GM's per server and pay them minimum wage, 3 work mon-fri 8hr shifts and 2 work weekends part-time 12hr shifts.

    Step 3: You wait for gold spammers to peddle the warez and watch the GM ass kicking commence with an instant right click - "Ban Dumbass" button at thier disposal, and as an added bonus the players of the game get to see a nice BIG red notice at the top of their screen each time one of these professional gold pimps hit the digital highway,

    PLAYER "INSERT SPAMMER NAME" HAS JUST RECEIVED A PERMANENT BAN FOR BEING STUPID!

    Step 4: ???

    Step 5: Profit

     

    So is it feasible, not sure, I am not great at math but I will try to break it down. This is based on California Wages where most western game companies are located.


    Hourly Paycheck Calculator - $8.00hr / 40hr week / 3 person team

    Your Pay Check Results

    Weekly Gross Pay


    $320.00

    Federal Withholding


    $33.77

    Social Security


    $13.44

    Medicare


    $4.64

    California


    $3.98

    CA SDI


    $3.84

     

    Net Pay


    $260.33

    960.00 /wk

    49,920.00 /yr


    Hourly Paycheck Calculator - 8/hr / 24hr Part-time / 2 person team

    Your Pay Check Results

    Weekly Gross Pay


    $192.00

    Federal Withholding


    $15.16

    Social Security


    $8.06

    Medicare


    $2.78

    California


    $0.00

    CA SDI


    $2.30

     

    Net Pay


    $163.70

    384.00 /wk

    19,968.00 /yr

    So for 69,888 /yr PER SERVER you can completely eradicate gold spam from the face of your game. That is less than most game programmers yearly salery. You can hire a 5 man team for the cost of 1 programmer a year.

    So let's say you have at least 10 servers at launch. That is 698,880.00 dollars a year. Small price to pay I think but I am not in the gaming financial department.

    Let's take a new game, like say Rift. As of today Rift has 56 servers world wide. For arguments sake let's say Rift only sold 250,000 copies world wide, though we know it is much more than that, we will just do it for rounding purposes.

    250,000 x 49.99 = 12,497,500.00

    69,888 x 56 = 3,913,728.00

    Not sure how cost effective that is to completely get rid of spam in a game, across every one of your servers for a full year but there it is.

    Anyway, it would work, but would be costly. Course for a company like *cough blizzard cough* this would be like chump change and not an issue at all.

    I'm tired now, going to bed :)

     

    *Edit - just thought of something, I am sure technologically a 5 man team could watch multiple servers chats at once, I mean I don't think that would be to terribly difficult, or hell even setup keyword alerts for them to zero in on chat if it is scrolling by to fast. That would cut cost on companies by a great deal making it even more feasible of an option for them. Oh well now I am really going to bed.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768

    A Gold Farmer's Paradise sounds like it should be a song by Coolio.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

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