Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

General: Successful Communities = Successful MMOs



  • haratuharatu Member UncommonPosts: 409

    Ironically this just occured recently to me. I was the lead recruiter in a smallish guild that had just started. I went on a two week break and upon arrival found that the big players had all left. Basically I had been the glue that was holding everything together and when I wasn't there there was dissension in the ranks.

    Ironically this is not the first time this has happened, and I have seen it with others too. There are some people that are the glue that fills the cracks in a community. They are not always obvious, but they are the ones that keep people enjoying the game/guild/community. You remove them, even temporarily and the cracks widen up till they are noticeable and just need a push to collapse them.

  • ideationideation Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by Vinterkrig

    this crap is bs, good content = successful mmos

    what complaints do you hear most often


    lack of content, lack of new content, lack of new ideas, sick of repeating , sick of collect this and that, sick of run this item to this other guy


    community? you are in a community of millions of "me me me" attitudes, rightfully so.. you are paying for YOUR entertainment


    pvp sucks without reason, pve sucks without reason, content after years and years is stagnant... rift = wow clone right? (not my opinion) , "we want something new, not another clone" 


    take a step back, you don't hear a lot of "i want to find my new bff in my next game", granted having a few in game friends is definately more fun than not, but generally speaking


    its me me me, or us (guild) and that is it.. gaming communities within the gaming community has always been segregated, all the way back from its start


    and frankly, when we were all logging into BBS systems via DOS, playing solo 1 at a time, it wasn't "community" that kept us logging into that BBS, or mulitple to play games like L.O.R.D. it was the fun gameplay.


    While I don't necessarily disagree with you, it should also be important to note that the success of an MMO is not defined by any singular aspect, whether it be the content or the community. Beyond that, success have various definitions and meanings. The author argues his point of view by community, and you through content. It should be noted that you're both right.

    Just because a game is an MMO does not mean it's group oriented. Several MMOs offer single player experiences and others emphasize community events and contests. A successful MMO in my opinion will attempt to address the majority of concerns with new/current MMOs such as pvp, pvm, content and community characteristics. Maybe even offer single and multiplayer experiences?

    However I have yet to encounter any MMO that addresses the entire niche crowd as of yet, so what you really have are give and takes/compromises to deal with when deciding to settle down on a game.

  • ideationideation Member Posts: 19

    Originally posted by Vinterkrig

    Originally posted by ideation


    While I don't necessarily disagree with you, it should also be important to note that the success of an MMO is not defined by any singular aspect, whether it be the content or the community. Beyond that, success have various definitions and meanings. The author argues his point of view by community, and you through content. It should be noted that you're both right.

    Just because a game is an MMO does not mean it's group oriented. Several MMOs offer single player experiences and others emphasize community events and contests. A successful MMO in my opinion will attempt to address the majority of concerns with new/current MMOs such as pvp, pvm, content and community characteristics. Maybe even offer single and multiplayer experiences?

    However I have yet to encounter any MMO that addresses the entire niche crowd as of yet, so what you really have are give and takes/compromises to deal with when deciding to settle down on a game.



    Sure but in a whole , a good guild is as much community that is needed by the majority player, obviously if 10 people are awesome and there are 2000 other players that can all grief you, it may not be fun because of the "major community" but not many games are able to have that effect


    So if you play WOW with 10 people, and they're awesome.. then the game will be fine regardless of all the asshats who play on your server. This doesn't mean community - success in an mmo, unless you are refering to small player guilds as community, but thats on a per person situation.

    Also, like I pointed out.. this is a Syndicate post, its an advertisment for their guild/business to draw more attention to themselves and create more revenue. 

    I'm well aware of who the Syndicate is. I was a member of an opposing guild back when they had players on UO. The good ol' days = P

    Though if you define a community, it's typically defined as a group of people who reside or live in specific place. Loosely defined that is... So whether or not you play with 2 or 3 or even 100 players, you're still apart of "that" community, and surrounding player communities. Communities are an important aspect of MMO development, however I believe in many instances exceptional players as you stated out can become self sufficient and not need to rely on the majority of the populace (therefore making it a lesser valued/important aspect). Outside of that social circle though, there are tons of community interactions and it's especially important in pvp based MMOs where you need opposing faction communities to war against; other wise you'd be bored waiting for something to happen. Which brings me to conclude like I previously stated you are both right [the author] because content is extremely important to maintain personal interest and communities are important to maintain player interaction, economic growth etc.

    My original point I was trying to make although I don't believe I stated it was that the author is in the wrong for declaring the community as the sole success of an MMO. MMOs have success for various reasons such as your opposing view needing content to maintain interest. I was indirectly agreeing with you while attempting to disprove the author : )

  • Druid_UKDruid_UK Member Posts: 58

    I HATE it that management babblese is seemingly creeping into every facet of life these days.

    "natural synergies" my arse.

    Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!

  • DignaDigna Member UncommonPosts: 1,994

    Numbers pay the bills. A really great MMO with mostly group-based content will lose (lose is a relative concept as they can lose by some standards and succeed greatly by their own measurements) the larger numbers because there are (more consistently) solo players looking  to game. A really great MMO with all (or mainly) solo able content will succeed more often because you CAN group for the game but can also succeed solo.


    Just my opinion

    I still disagree with having the Syndicate 'owner' writing here but at least I haven't seen guild self-aggrandizement since the first couple of articles.

  • renireni Member UncommonPosts: 32

    Agreed, rather pleasantly suprised there hasn't been more blatant self promotion.  But it is a valid point, going to have to give up gaming completly when my SO and I get more serious as it's what kids do, but never us adults.  And no amount of social integration is ever going to change that mindset, even if it's on facebook.........

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    I agree, an MMORPG with no or poor community is not a good MMORPG for me, regardless of other features.

    It is what makes or breaks it.

  • delta9delta9 Member UncommonPosts: 358

    I think i agree with what some have said previously, in that it is the game itself is what makes it successful, if its a good game and has been marketed at least half decently then the community will come, if not it wont

    The community in the game is a byproduct of how good the game itself is, not the other way around


    I am pretty sure I dont want to play a MMO that is interlinked to a facebook game, unless they make all actions in that facebook game completely irrelevant to the MMO im playing


    MMO companies just need to make good games at launch, not interlink with social networks, we need to get to a point where the money men arent forcing games out with such little content, unfinished, buggy etc etc but instead pushing out a polished and fun experience

  • ShinamiShinami Member UncommonPosts: 825

    Mathematical Approach:


    "The most successful communities result in the most successful mmorpgs" 


    Converse: The most successful mmorpgs result in the most successful communities.


    Are the two necessarily true? 


    We already know the converse of the statement is not true..


    Its like saying "If its a horse, then its an animal" where such a statement is true as a horse is an animal, but its converse isn't true, if we say "If its an animal, its a horse" where we know its an animal, but it can be a horse, cat, dog...etc." 


    If you guys see a backwards A in mathematic notation it means "For All X" and a backwards E means "There exists"...So I would put a backwards A and an X and then a backwards Ex and say "For all X, there exists at least one successful X (an mmorpg) where its community has not been successful.


    This is what we would need to work with the original statement. 


    Can we name MMORPGs that have had success without successful communities? Lets say Final Fantasy XI. 


    Its community is not huge, specially when compared to World of Warcraft. Its community has always demanded things...Most of the time such demands were unanswered, but eventually reached. The community is smaller with servers still merged and the game still enjoys success. The game enjoys a rather steady income though it has a declining community and has had for some kind. 


    The WoW community is not a successful community either. It has a rather notorious reputation across the internet itself and Blizzard always comments on its community to make itself seem successful where its really a marketting ploy to make it feel like the community "belongs" but WoW is pretty successful. 


    Lineage 2 has a rather divided community between private servers and public servers (just like WoW) and the game was a success for a long time. 


    From Observation the statement really does not work out in practice of on paper. 


    Of course we never quantified community success. I would assume that its a community which not just has its loyalty to the game, but also reinforces expanding and preserving the game itself...Perhaps like helping new players out and making demands when they see fit and them being powerful enough that a company would actually listen to them or lose them.


    This only truly exists in very small MMORPGs which are trying to break their foot into their door and actually make a name for themselves with a small population. The smaller the population the greater the collective voice amongs its people. If such population grows the voice of the people is actually lesser since companies think in dollar signs. 


    Would such be quantified where we find successful populations in games viewed as "unsuccessful?" 


    The statement itself needs work and when we start thinking about mixing social networks along with the fact many games have smaller communities comprised of the whole....We have a view from a majority and we end up with an X community, Y community and Z community. 


    We say X is a social network, Y is a Large community where a person has little voice but has some numbers to stand apart. How about Z be a small community where a person belongs with, has greater power in voice but its a lot smaller and overlooked, but just as important like our clans and guilds...We then start comparing results from a population sample..We may end up with something like 


    3x + 6y + 2z = 20

    5x + 6y + 3z = 27

    4x + 4y + 2z = 20


    Of course we know one of three solutions tends to exist. Either we end with one unique solution where we get one X, Y Z that can work. We end up with a free variable where we end up with infinite solutions or of course we can end up with no solutions.


    Of course I made a random set of equations, but it is my point.


    When we throw a dependency into success, we can always observe a class or group that has different parameters within the same category and find a measure of difference or a cause. We do this instinctively in our heads each time we make an argument or rationalization about something.


    The same is true to the real world, a person may be born in California and thus we say "We are United States Citizens (Larger community) but we are also Citizens of the state of California (Smaller community) and then our world comprises of all the people and places we know and interract with (even smaller community of the whole)


    We look at ourselves and at the end of things and is there a conclussion. 


    How about I throw a possibility for a conclussion.


    How about I become unscientific and state "Its what you make life out to be" and make the scientific observation that while its Important to have a large community to show visibility and attract others at times like a Bandwagon...


    What matters is really if a community and what such community represents its agreeable with you. You are the one building a computer for a game. You are the one thinking about playing a certain game and you are the one who will make the choice on the game to play and community to join.


    What matters is truly what you think. Many people may agree that a game can be "Great" due to community in MMORPGs but these communities do not MOD or Maintain the game itself. Unlike Shooters where their communities are comprised of Server Operators, Web Site Handlers (Forumboard handlers), Clan/Guild Handlers, Programmers and Modders, their gamers and finally the main company itself.


    How about I say 


    "Has it been succesful to you? Enchanting, Energetic...Riveting? And for how long has it lasted" 


    "MMORPGs can feel like an intimate relationship where you pay into it in the form of time, love, energy and money....but then what happens when it turns out to be a fling? It doesn't bring back all lost, all one has left are memories when they move on.


    If it works for you, it works for you...but I wouldn't go as far as calling a game "Successful" because a community declares if I don't play such a game I shouldn't be playing MMORPGs or even be considered a game. To me if I leave and do not play the game and/or community have failed me....


    ...and that really is what counts. Some times it really is ALL ABOUT YOU and community is really about a collection of "common ground" and the "agreable!" 


    Like half the threads of "I dont like game X because its not like Y game because I loved Y game and I can't stand game X since the company doesn't make a clone of Y game, but when it does it doesn't feel like Y game because I know "Different" != Equal, but oh how I like to think so" attitude. 

  • FikusOfAhaziFikusOfAhazi Member Posts: 1,835

    Interesting read. Though the typical WOW/EQ type mmo isnt the type of game your suggestions would work with in my opinion. That design is flawed in many ways. Any more "fixes" and there won't be a game left.

    A different type of mmorpg would fit much better, it may even be perfectly designed for such systems. I think thats why alot of people think the idea is crazy, because there is only one mmorpg design to them, and it doesnt fit together well.

    Alot of posters seem to dismiss the idea that a good community = a successful mmorpg. They seem to think it's all about the content. I disagree. Especially with themepark games. I probably disagree on what a bad community is too.

    Content only sells boxes. Community makes it a game. With no community, everyone does the content, then quits. OR They get their gear, then quit. OR They complete their goal, then quit. Then everyone wonders why the game failed, and gives 100 different reasons why.

    I assume the makers dont really want to do more than sell boxes. If they really don't know what exactly "it" is that keeps people playing and the community growing, then pay someone who does. Or ask.


    Most people that I ask to play MMORPG's that arent gamers, say no. Because after describing what you do in all MMORPG's nowadays, they think they sound friggin retarded. Trying to teach a few of  them to play over the years, I tend to agree.

    There is too much to learn. Not that they cant learn it, but that it's too rediculous to try. The artificial fluff these games are filled with, make MMORPGs into games that  people have to be dragged into by friends or family. The concept of mmo's sounds great to them however, just not the current concept.

    All my experience and opinon.

    See you in the dream..
    The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020

    First thing, i didn't really read much of this because i don't agree with the topic title in teh slightest.

    A successful community doesn't = a successful mmo no matter how you look at it. A successful community might make an mmo a nicer place, but if the mmo itself sucks, the community can be your dream community, but its not gonna make you want to play the game for a prolongued period of time if you hate actually playing it.

    Look at WoW, most people i believe would say the community in WoW sucks. There's conflicting views as you do have the helpfuls(mainly the mathematicians who decode WoW and give people their cookie cutter builds and rotations) and sometimes you may find a guild dedicated to helping newer players, but on the whole, if you ur not a guildie, or you don't have gearscore/achievements, you're not getting into any raid no matter how easy it is.

    I could go on and on but you get the gist with just that example.

    A successful mmo = A successful mmo. Period, in case you didnt see the period.

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • GentleNovaGentleNova Member Posts: 16

    If the post had been titled something like "How Diverse Gameplay Can Increase Social Activity & Collaboration", it might not have been so reactionary.

    Even then though, many people here are correct in that something of this nature needs to be designed extremely well for it to work. If it's not designed correctly, you have a few people who enjoy it immensely because of it's depth and challenge, yet you have a lot of people who hate it because they are effectively having to sink an enormous amount of time into something that doesn't really interested them. In effect, it's no better than grinding.

    The key to adding diverse styles of gameplay is that their challenge should self-adjust based upon the interest of the individual (i.e. easy to learn, difficult to master), yet at the same time it shouldn't completely imbalance the game. For example, sure I can imagine something like a farmville component in WoW but it shouldn't be the base experience for "farming" herbs but rather the pinnacle of it for those who only want to do just that.

    So for most of the population who'd rather spend time raiding or questing, they can just farm herbs in the "wilds" like they normally do. For those who absolutely love herbology and want to spend all their time just doing that, then sure this farmville component, as a deeper metagame, can add a lot of enjoyment for them plus give them better quality herbs that normally couldn't be obtained in the wild (i.e. increases alchemy proc chance by a slight amount). Again it has to be delicately balanced in such a way that it doesn't imbalance the game, yet still provides some useful component to it.

    BTW with regards to what makes a successful mmo, I'd say it's between content and community. In effect, the social interactive experience within the content environment. So it's not just content and not just community but a collaboration of the two centered around the social interactive experience. This is why I think a lot of newer MMOs are failing even though their content may "look" great. In effect, if you just change the setting, yet the interactive experience is the same, the game still "feels" like the "same old thing". However, if you change the actual interactive experience, making it much more of a socially engaging experience (without being forced into it), then the game as a whole often feels much more enjoyable and different, even though its content and setting could be almost exactly like another game.

  • SuilebhainSuilebhain Member UncommonPosts: 57

    The last game I played in that had a truly good community, at least at one point, was SWG. The first was DAOC. We know what killed SWG, with all of the tinkering done by SOE before people finally got fed up and quit. DAOC was different.

    I think the reason was that DAOC was originally inhabited by old-school roleplayers, people who came from dice & paper games and sought the same type of experience. They were mostly adults or mature young'uns who relished the idea of good roleplay and thus made the world in which they lived as immersive as possible.

    The influx of players who looked upon MMORPGs, not as a virtual, digital world of characters but as an extended arcade game filled with "toons", initiated the decline of immersive experiences previously found in DAOC and, before that Everquest and Ultima Online. Where once these people were known as D00dz for their use of chatroom dialect known as D00dspeak and their unwillingness to join in to the roleplay atmosphere, they started to outnumber the roleplayers.

    The other thing that corresponded to this and altered the way the community functioned was the endgame, where the emphaisis was no longer on "the journey" but instead on the destination - loot, realm abilities, and status acheived through PVP kills. The feel shifted, and suddenly people were being told where to stand, what to do, what build to have, what gear to have. Granted, at first the PvP and raid content brought the community together, but as the expectations of rewards shifted, so did the approach.

    Then came WoW and an even greated influx of "video gamers".  Now, community is not so much people united for a common cause and using the game world as the millieu upon which their adventure is played but for who can say the most outrageous things on Barrens chat.


  • Mors-SubitaMors-Subita Member UncommonPosts: 517

    I'll be honest, I didn't read through all 5 pages of posts... That being said, is there anyone here who didn't miss the fact that GW2 is already working on this?


    They've announced all kinds of stuff for mobile gamers, facebookers, etc... to be part of the mmo experience. This includes an iphone/android app which will allow people to see the game map and where enemies and players are, communicate on voice chat, lead raids remotely, etc...


  • booskAbooskA Member UncommonPosts: 79

    Isn't your guild about recruiting and interviewing new members like a corporation? I don't know what you could know about communities or friendships when you basically hire new friends.

Sign In or Register to comment.