Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
DCOL or CO
eddieg50
Member UncommonPosts: 1,809
Are there big differences among them? Is it worth paying money for the difference? Is CO a much more fleshed out mmo?
Comments
When it comes to justifying its cost that is an issue only you can answer, but for myself I'd rather pay for something that offers a bit of entertainment or fun rather than just play any old thing simply becasue it is free.
Case in point is CO which I cannot recommend over any mmo, the avatar creator is a dream but only serves as a greater contrast to the nightmare that follows and the actual 'game' is one of the blandest most sterile and uninvolving experiences it has ever been my misfortune to endure.
I personally find DCUO is tremedous fun, its involving and immersive in a manner few mmo's ever are - at least while you level but then game loses a lot of shine when you quickly hit the generic and grindy endgame - the conviction behind the IP, the rich presentation makes it a DC fans dream (its main reason for being) and its very 'casual friendly' (which again suits people like myself) but it does lack the deeper content the traditional mmo player is used.
Ultimately niether game can really be considered a true fleshed out mmo until a considerable number of expansions have been delivered (which may be never in both cases although at least a subscription game has a chance) - if you are looking for a broader and more traditional mmo experience the older CoH is probably a better bet.
IMO, I'd go for CO.
Since CO is freemium you can try it and see if you would like it. With DCUO you'll have to pay for the game and I think it's still full price. CO's population is way better since it went free and DCUO I hear is a ghost town.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
Myself and my kids started playing Champions over the weekend. I'd been away from the game for over a year but I did get involved in the beta testing for the FTP model.
Champions FTP is extremely limited. You are limited to a certain amount of classes and each of those has a set progression path. You have no choice when you level what powers your character will get, as you level you get doled out each new power in your progression tree. The only option I've seen so far is your travel power, which is limited to a choice of 4/6 (can't remember the exact figure)
When creating your Champion a VERY large selection of costume pieces are now pay to use with only a very small selection surviving the cash shop.
In summary the FTP CO runs on rails right from the start, you have no power choices past your initial choice, your costume choices are majoritively basic and even the old Crisis zones require you to buy them from the C Store (unless you had a previous subscription which enables you to enter 1 of them) otherwise you are limited to Millenium City.
In order to play CO as any kind of "decent" MMO you need to pay up, probably to a simular amount of a monthly sub would cost you.
I also played DCUO and despite the improvements that the character creator really could do with I believe DC is a much better game. TBH the only reason we played CO over the weekend is that I can't really validate paying 3 subs for DCUO (also one of the PC's is kinda low spec) but if we could manage it I reckon thats what we'd be playing instead.
Now this is based on about 3 hours play of CO over the weekend. Two of us having a previous subscription to CO and the last signing up to the pure FTP experience (IE: new account). We've played through the tutorial mission and completed a few missions in Millenium city but not much more. But both myself and my oldest son (who have both gamed before and played both games as subs) agreed that the Champions FTP was a bit of a let down.
Neither play city of heroes the best hero game on the market.
Neither DCUO or CO are completely fleshed out in my opinion. City of Heroes however has as tons and tons of content, & almost any power set you can think of.
DCUO is very limited in the amount of quests and power sets. CO has a fairly complete set of powers, (if you are not free to play) and you can combine them however you like just about. CO though still doesn't have a ton of quests etc.
But
DCUO has the best PvP in my opinion. You have PvP servers which you don't have on CO or COH.
CO has the best character creator, if you really want to create the super hero of your imagination, that is the best place to do it.
CoH has really really excellent pick up group mechanisms, the ability to make your own missions, and enough content you can end up leveling many toons without playing through the same content. Some of it however, it basically random and predictable, like AO's auto missions if you ever did that.
Speed of combat on a traditional MMO to twitch are different and in this order (slow) CoH, CO, DCUO (fast).
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
It's horrendously dated now. I loved the game for two years but the way it operates and the mechanics of the game itself are of a previous time IMO.
As for CO and it's freemium model, I'm always reminded to when the game started. Back when the game launched and the first content patch Serpent Lantern was announced. One of the devs said that it was a PAID expansion pack,(remember everyone was subbing at the time), for a game without enough content and who'd dropped a huge game/powers changing patch day of launch. Lots complained and they relented but the point of this is, I just don't really trust them.
The game itself is alright although it quickly gets repetitive and the only changes/updates Cyptic makes is to make it easier to hand over your credit card details to them :P
It also makes me laugh if you launch the game and there constantly trying to sell you bits and bobs as if it's fantastic new stuff. It's like Cryptic expect people to forget the last two years :P
As for DCUO? It's fun and makes a good use of the license but the sub bleed is very worrying as is the changes at SOE recently. Also their endgame gear grind fest didn't go down very well with most players. I think they tried to apply an Themepark-Raid-Progression structure into a superhero MMO which people found lore breaking and pointless. At the moment many are wondering how long the actual game will survive.
My short answer would be neither long term but if you can pick it up cheap, grab DCUO, as it is fun for a while
It depends on what you are looking for. I am going to try to put it as a task
If you are looking for a multiplayer action game(consolish) that happen to be a hero theme skined or you are crazy about open pvp, go for DCUO.
If not and you are looking for a superhero mmorpg then
If you want to go free CO
else
if you want character over content CO
if you want content over character CoH
My actual advice is to get a buddy key for CoH and trying free CO, keeping in mind the limitations.
There are immense differences. CO is an MMORPG, DCU is a console game with multiplayer elements.
It depends what you like. For example, I played MMO's but was never into the superhero genre. But I had been a DC fan since childhood, so when the game came out I decided to give it a try. And I loved the superhero genre, but felt fooled by the game makers. That was no MMO. The mere basics of communicating with people in the most fundamental ways were hindered. The much vaunted combat systemm is simply console style combo button mashing playstyle, nothing groundbreaking there. If you are into that kind of playstyle then thats the game for you.
Moreover, once you realize there's no room for growth in DCUO you'll get a rude wake up call. The action bar is limited to 8 actionable buttons, 6 powers, one trinket, one consumable. You can get a bunch of powers, but have active access to only 6 at a given MOMENT. Guess why. When you play with KB+M you'll get carpal tunnel because of the clicking nature of combat. The UI is an alien mess that only begins to make sense when you get a controller (since it's a game designed first for the PS3, then ported to PC.) When you get a controller then the UI makes full sense to you. 4 buttons, 2 triggers. left trigger activates 4, right trigger the other 4. What are they going to do on the next content pack, or new powers? Add more buttons to the PS3 controller? Even if they wanted to, they can't, since you cannot make more buttons on a controller before you start fat fingering stuff. Therefore the game, foerevermore, is locked into that 6 power action bar.
Next. You make a sorcery hero, a spellcaster. And now you have to fire dual guns or an M15 at your enemies to generate the energy to cast a spell. C'mon . . . why?
Because that's the type of combat used for a controller button mashing style. It's the way to artificially put more action on your hero with things top do when all you have is 6 powers to use. Combo button mash pistol attacks.
Needless to say on a whim I tried CO since it's free to play. 3 hours later I had cancelled DCUO and put that money on a gold membership of CO.
First off, you can't compare the F2P version of CO with DCUO. Compare the gold version with DCUO, since with both you pay a subscription fee.
CO is a full fledged honest to goodness MMO. The game is what you make of it, not what it makes of you. The UI is a dream. Huge community, population hopping at any time of day or night. You can design your hero from scratch or make an archetype. Your magic based hero casts spells, not fire an assault rifle. Etc.
I could say more. But it boils down to what you want. An MMORPG? Or a console game not focusing on the hero but more in a Mortal Kombat style.
Been playing City Of Heroes Since 07, tried Champions and DC Universe. Both do not come close to COH, are there differences , of course. COH is much older, but Champions and DC are boring beyond belief, Champions looks horrible and DC is just action, both have horrible game mechanics. Not to mention COH has a much better population than both, seen people leave for both saying they were gone only to be back a month or two later saying what a mistake. My recommendation, give all three a shot, i bet you will choos e COH.
Honestly I have to go with CO here. I would even recommend the free "Silver" level of DCU. I know that you are limited to the archtypes in Silver which are preset power sets, but you still ahve at least as much "choice" there as DC's, what 6 power choices? Yes I know you have weapon types and "Iconic" powers, but I still think that your choices in free Champs is comparable. if you go "Gold" (ie pay the $15 you would pay to DC) then the power selection is free form and completly superior.
Additionally there really is no comparison between the character creation in DC and CO. CO has a lot more options hands down.
As far as game content goes, a lot of this will depend on your preference. I think that it is safe to say that both games have a similar amount of PvE content. I think that leveling is a bit faster in DC. DC certainly has better PvP choices since it has a hero and villian side that can both fight in the open world on PvP servers. The endgame for both games is pretty weak, and DC goes for the "Tier gear" type apprach (which i am personally sick of).
What I really feel like gives CO the edge here is that while the game had a poor launch and suffered from some pretty bad development management last year, since the F2P "relaunch" the Dev Team has been doing a lot better with communication, listening to the community and seem to have a much more solid development plan. Player housing is coming in July, and eventually CO will get a "Foundry" type mission creator like STO got. These things will add depth to the game beyond "more quests"
Meanwhile, DC launched kind of poorly, has some fundemental PC issues (chat functionality issues are just embarrasing for a 2011 game), and development has already slipped on the "Update every month" promise. I feel like I am watching a rerun of CO's launch again. Talk of population problems are concerning too. Now I do want to state that I only beta tested the game, so my personal experiences are from pre launch, and then what I have read in reviews.
So I would suggest checking out CO.
It depends what you like. If your the kind of person itching for complete freedom in character and skill customization with standard MMO questing/dungeon/crafting systems, go with CO.
If you just want a multiplayer console beat 'em up, go with DCUO.
I personally have been playing CO since release and still love it. I can never get enough of designing new characters with new powers I never used before.
CoH has the best costume creation ever made. beyond that the combat is really outdated when set next to dcuo, and considering almost all of the activities in an mmo revolve around combat, thats a big deal. it has been out many years longer though, so of course its going to have the most content available.
CO is a money sink. even if you pay a standard monthly fee for the platinum service, you still have to pay more cash on top of it for all the various cash shop items. the combat system isnt much, if any, better than CoH which is many years older. i cant speak much on the content level, as i dont feel like being ripped off so i never spent any money on the game. standard 15$ monthly fee for platinum + cash shop items on top of it = rip off.
DCUO has the best combat system in about any mmo out there and it has beautiful graphics. most people seem to feel that the game does not have enough end game content to make them happy, but it suits me fine, and its still the newest one of the three. where the game is mostly lacking is in limited powersets to choose from, and needing more content for max level characters to do. there is only 6 powersets to choose from, and many people have been sitting around for 2 months waiting on new content, which has cost them the majority of their subs.
if sony would get on the ball, get the super-servers up and running to fix the population problems a lot of servers have, and start pumping out end-game content to keep people busy, i would say its the obvious best choice.... however all of that is going to take time, like months.
if you are not willing to play through the games early stages, or just dont have faith in sony, then i would say CoH is the way to go simply because there are only 3 options and CO is a money-sink trying to take advantage of their customers.
Do you know that CoH also sells fluffy stuff? the only difference is that they call them packs(ex. the wedding pack, animal pack). As a subscriber in CO you get C-store points monthly that accounts for moreless a costume set or a travel power skin. CO would be a money sink only if you want to get all costume sets at once. Transformation devices are not bound, so most stuff can be bought by in-game currency. The main reason to recommend CoX over CO is content size and team dynamics. In customization sense, CO is superior but CoX has a good customization system(better than DCUO); so it comes down to what the player value the most and in which proportion.
After super-servers(should I say supermerge?), it still has a big challenge, since first impression happens only once and the SOE psn issues is not really helping. I would say that they will either going f2p after 1 year of release or they will just put it on minimal life support. Still I wish DCUO get more people since it has many qualities that should be appreciate.
Yes there are "BIG differences" among them.
Is it worth paying money for the difference? As of now, No. Not worth $5, $10, or $15 dollars a month. Given time, assuming the game can survive it's growing pains, DCUO has the potential to become a very good "action" mmo. (a good game for children in it's current state)
Is CO a much more fleshed out mmo? With CO's age the only real impressive aspect of the game is the character creator. <--- Period.
This is 100% all me here, but I feel given time and player patients DCUO has the potential to be a good action mmo until Tera's release. DCUO really could turn things around, with a few simple fixes and more lengthy end game content. As it stands now, it's too shallow for a deep IP.
Am I wrong?
i would go with CO because after it went F2P now it has more ppl to play with...
There are only 3 things i like from DCUO that CO should have (at least a similar feature with a personal twist) which are:
1- faction villain vs faction heroes (in CO you only play heroes and that sux for open pvp)...
2- acrobatics in DCUO can climb walls and glide in the air while Acrobatics in CO is lame and not exciting...
3- in DCUO you can create ur toon inspired in a real superheroe / villain from DC.
other than this, i preffer CO over DCUO
This pretty much sums it up, for my feelings on the two. It's a matter of what you want.
For me, I played CO on a Silver Account and went Gold after 2 weeks. I love the Freeform character creation, the Adventure Packs, and all the missions.
DCUO is cool for a beat-em-up with a mere 6 power sets. 85% of your combat is, sadly, weapon based. Not very "comic book-y" in my opinion.
Plus, good things coming to CO, still: http://www.champions-online.com/node/595282
Unlike those other games CO has a F2P option. Try it. Make your OWN opinion. You have nothing to lose. Mind you. Don't try and compare all the features of F2P to a full subscription game. Compare the Gold CO option with other games you have to pay the same to play. In the meantime just try it. You might find yourself surprised that some features you didn't think much are features you love. Alternatively, you may find the game is not to your taste. Then you can go back to those othr games with nothing lost.
But if you like MMO's, community, world play, you know, what makes an MMO an MMO, just try it.
Boy I bet SOE is loving the fact all their games are connected. DC being down makes the decision easier I think lol.
Don't forget about City of Heroes/Villians. CoH has more content then both other games.
DC has the best graphics, and a very reactive fighting system. Good open PVP, even a flag system on PVE servers to flag yourself attackable.
Bad part of DC is lack of end game. They expect you to repeat instances over and over and over to get gear. Open world PVP while fun, has no regional control, or open world objectives. So far DC's added content is a instance here or there.
DC is a very well done graphic action game, but it's lack of persistant world elements has lost my interest.
CO I never got into, because I didn't like it's goofy graphic style. Call me shallow, but I just don't like what I saw. Nothing good or bad to say about the game itself as I didn't get past this hurdle.
Coh/CoV while I don't play currently kept me for years. It had a ton of fun.
DCUO has really spoiled me for MMOs.
Exploits aside, the combat system is second to none.
It actually puts you inside of the combat and requires some skill vs. just a simple button click then X happens type MMO.
You are also restricted on how many powers are on your bar at once requiring careful thought on how you want to approach a certain encounter.
The PvP in DCUO is why I'm hooked. CO, CoX don't even compare.
I tried Rift at launch with some buddies and went back to DCUO because it just wasn't the same.
The combat system is exactly the same to what you would find in any given multiplayer console game. You can try any of the innumerable titles available and you might find you have just found your gaming experience nirvana. And that is fine. Each knows what is important to them. But if you love that type of combat you are denying yourself if you don't try those games.
As for restricted to what powers you can have on your bar at a given time as good to separate good strategy? It's like saying: this little shack of a corner convenience store is far better than the supermarket because they restrict you to buy either whole milk or no milk. That forces a real strategic choice on whether you want to really buy milk or not. Having the options to buy skim, 1%, 1 and 1/2%, 2%, whole, soy, vanilla soy, chocolate vanilla soy, etc dilutes the milk buying experience.
There's no strategy there. They don't limit you to whole milk or no milk. They simply cannot provide the other milks because they simply don't have them. The PS3 controller limits what they can put on the UI. It's that simple. What that will force is - over time, if there is time for enough of a community to keep playing that - you'll get super cookie cutter specs. Play ice with these 6 powers for PvE, and these 6 for PvP. And everyone who's ice will have the same 6 powers in the action bar. While that could be said of any game, it is the shallowness of DCUO that will really aggravate that. 6 powers on the UI... period. Other games have so many more options that it is much more likely you will see far more variety in the game.
You know, DCUO is a barren wasteland for a reason. There are many many more dissatistied customers who abandoned the game than there are die hard apologizers willing to go down with the ship.
The game was well done on many levels and stuck by the DCU for those who are fans of the characters - many, myself included, really wanted to see it succeed. But Sony's insistence on making sure the game sold it's PS3 console condemened the future of the game by shackling the play experience on the PC to the needs of it's precious console.
What other MMO (Console or PC) has the same system as DCUO?
Sure there's the generic button mashers like "Super Smash Bros" but it's not a MMO.
However it does share some DCUO combat system similarities which is why everyone loves it.
I think your logic is a little off in regards to your supermarket analogy.
Applied to DCUO it would be - "Do you want to pickup Milk or do you want OJ ?"
I'm glad you listed ICE.
Sometimes you want to toss on swoop with your build. Are you going to be chasing people? Do you need to enter combat mode quickly? Do any of your other powers cancel?
Othertimes you might want to toss in 100% Supercharge frost form - Are you going ot be holding a node by yourself vs. multiple players?
There are plenty of scenarios where X power is not ideal but another X power could change the momentium of the fight so you swap it out.
The point is - true you might have 3 core abilities you use (Reflection, WW, Ice Bash) but you also have 3 non-core abilities you might be swapping out continously that can change the dynamics of the encounter depending on the circumstances. (Bitter Ice vs. Ice to eat Reflect dmg, 100% SC Ice form to guard a node, Hiberation for world PvP ganking survivability) etc. etc.
It's not the difference between milk and no milk.
It's the difference between Milk and Orange Juice.
In regards to population there are two PvP servers and two PvE server on the PC side that are modest to substaintially populated. Death and Glory hits medium pop routinely every week.
As more players from the other servers re-roll to it, it's population is only increasing. Y
ou can get pug RAIDS on D&G just about every hour of the day. Queues pop non-stop as well.
Public Enemies is the 2nd server that isn't as populated as D&G but can reach D&G numbers on certain nights.
The weekly world PvP event brings in 40v40 encounters in one small area alone.
There are numerous raid groups every day of the week, and queues routinely pop instantly on that server as well.
VnV and Zero Hour PvE servers reportedly are doing well. I can't validate this as I have never played on either of those two.
PS3 side is even more populated then the PC side according to their forums and from the dozen or so PS3 players I've spoken with on vent. It is absolutely jammed packed with players all over the place.
Don't get me wrong, it's not where it was at launch.
On the PC side all the servers routinely are listed at LOW.
There's still a tremendous amount of players on D&G even at the low listing hours but it's still considered "low" pop on the server list. This is why the mergers could be the healthiest thing for DCUO.
A lot of the casuals and core players started on other servers that are indeed completely dead.
They're not having issues with game mechanics, content, bugs, they're having issues with boredom due to population on their original server.
The reason for the population decreases was because of poor support from SoE. PC patches were linked to PS3 patches, exploits were not fixed for months, content was late, and now servers are down.
STO rebounded from a similar crisis and AoC did as well to an extent. Both of those titles bottomed out and then gained a substainal player base. STO is still gaining but unfortunately AoC added in some flawed systems and is decreasing again.
DCUO should have fixed the easy issues that they were aware about in Beta (i.e. BOMB crashing players) and the very least fixed those issues shortly after other players complained about it during launch.
They didn't, it was game breaking, thus population decreased greatly.
Now that DCUO is over those hurdles I can see it increasing in population slowly over the next 6 months.
Especially after server queues / melds / mergers, etc.
i spent the evening playing Champions Online because soe is down, derp.
anyways, CO has nothing on dcuo at all.
CO has worse graphics, extremely worse combat, and amazingly stutters and lags all over the place when dcuo runs smooth as butter.
after an evening of CO im just dying to be able to play DCUO again because its in an entirely different league.
combat in CO is a snoozefest. set your energy builder to auto attack and you barely have to do anything except mash 2,3 or 4 once in a while and hold it while the charge builds up.... then sip your drink while your guy auto attacks to more energy.
the thing i was most offended by with CO is that its about 2 years old now and the game stutters all over the place like i have some bad computer or something... when i can run dcuo at max settings and never lag, while seeing a 10x more beautiful game world.
i mean my computer may not be the best ever, but i have dual 450gts running sli, 8 gigs of ram, 3.2ghz quad core, cable internet... and i can play any modern game with zero lag.... except champions online.
the only thing i can say is cryptics game engine is garbage.
i will say it made me appreciate how awesome dcuo really is though.
i want my weapon combos back, i want my exciting combat, i want my beautiful graphics.
sure dcuo has its faults, but in comparison, its still amazing.
i'd have to go with City of Heroes.. the graphics are a bit dated now, but still pretty good - not that DCUO's graphics are all that great, though you need a PC to really compare as the others obviously arent on a console.. COH has much better Avatar creation/customisation, and more content than DCUO could ever dream of.. even the gameplay in COH imo, is far superior to DCUO.. but that might be because COH is more a 'Team' based type of game.. which.. DCUO.. handles in a fairly rubbish way.. the other thing of course is.. Going Rogue.. you don't have to always be the good (or bad) guy in COH.. things arent so black and white anymore.. maybe this is also one of the reasons why DCUO isnt really all that popular at the minute.. though obviously Sony's latest security debacle hasnt helped matters at all.. if anything.. i would say that finding a positive reason to even play DCUO just got a lot harder..
CoH doesn't have any PvP to speak of and the combat system is the old standard MMO.
It was somewhat acceptable back in 2006 when CoV was launched but now, not so much.
It still has it's niche though for certain players.
I'll take Champions Online over DCUO any day.
If I wanted just 6 power sets and 85% of my combat to be clickly-clack weapon swings with the occassional "spell" tossed in, I would just wait for the DCUO engine to hit EQ3.
It is far better suited to fantasy than to the comic book genre.
Give me freeform character creation, where I can make my hero the way I want him to be, any day.
Give me more than 1 way to level my character.
Give me other players to play with.
Give me a company that is actually adding stuff to the game each month.
Sorry, I find nothing super-compelling about DCUO combat. Sure, it's different for an MMO, but it isn't anything I haven't played on consoles before in similar forms. The console games didn't ruin me on normal MMO combat then, and DCUO didn't do it now.
City of Heroes is still the best of the 3, despite showing its age.
I don't need console-action-combat in my MMO. I need a community, replayability, multiple levelling options, and a reason to log in.
DCUO doesn't offer that, for my tastes.
What's funny is that I made a trial account 2 weeks ago for CoX, just to see if I felt like resubscribing, and they actually have servers above "low" at prime-time.
Oh, and despite it also being heavily instanced, I encountered many players out and about on Virtue.
So, it might be niche, but it still appears to be doing better than DCUO.