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the secret world= end of class trinity.
Furor
Member Posts: 374
Secret world will be awesome and no more class trinity YAY!
people complain about class trinity well NO more , secret world pwns 
Comments
Do you have a source for this? I havnt seen any mention of the trinity in any interviews. I hope we dont have it, but GW2 is the only mmo that goes out of its way to avoid it that I am aware of.
Every character in TSW can over time learn all skills/abilities. There still will be healing, ranged DPS and melee skills, but you can learn and use them with a single character. You just need to switch your skill-template and gear instead of leveling up yet another classed character.
Just go watch the walthrough of GDC 2011 -> Part 1 & Part 2
The explanation of the skill-system starts at the end of Part 1 and goes into detail in Part 2.
This exactly, I hear people toting that TSW has no trinity, but just because you don't pick a class at character creation does not equal no trinity.
Indeed, as in Rift, each character will have more options than most mmos, but I still think there will be standard roles, but anyway, we shall see. They are taking risks in many other areas, not sure if they want to break the trinity, still if GW2 is able to do it, maybe...
The Secret World will, indeed, be awesome. It will not, however, be free from the trinity. People will stil build DPS characters, Tanks, and healers. Certain people will still try to take the brunt of the damage while others try to deal mass damage, while still another heals the whole group. There will be some slight variations on this, but the Trinity is there because it works, and it will happen "naturally", even without premade classes.
Definitely.
Too often people make the mistake of confusing "class" with "role". I'm pretty confident this game will bring a lot of focus to the "support" role as well. Think early EQ paladins, druids, rangers, etc.. Jacks of all trades so to speak. I expect we'll see a lot of this in TSW. Mainly because the skill "deck" system seems to be taking the same (or at least a very similar) route as Rift's soul system, where you equip a group of active/passive skills, and mix and match what you're comfortable playing.
Based on what little information I've accumulated from this thread and sources, it sounds almost identical to Rifts system. As someone pointed out, just because you don't pick a class at the start, doesn't mean you have gotten rid of the Holy Trinity. If there's any type of healing in the game, you can bet someone will need a healer. Lol. Though, in retrospect, I suppose in a raid environment you could have anyone toss heals on your tanks, but that would be detrimental, and ultimately, most people will "Specialize" to ease the burden of advancement. More DPS skills = Faster leveling. More Defensive skills = Better Tanks. More Healing skils = Better Healer. Eventually people will be dumped into categories from which their skills would suggest they be.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
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I'm not sure where you come up with "Almost Identicle". Rift has classes, TSW doesn't. Rift requires you to pick skills from up to three trees within your class, TSW let's you learn skills from any tree you wish.
There are similarities, however, and the end result in both is specialization, because that's just how it works.
"Almost Identical" was perhaps not the right words. Similar would have been better. Regardless, I do find it odd that despite everything I said, you singled out what I would consider a typo by any other means =P.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
I was just seeking to clarify for those who might not be familiar with the games, nothing malicious. Don't get me wrong, I've made 100's of malicious postings on these forums, this just wasn't one of them
There are a few key points in which TSW's system goes beyond Rift's class system.
Rift had 4 archetypes, within which a player could choose the 'souls' they wanted to mix and match.
TSW has the whole range of skills, no restriction by archetype, of which to pick from.
Another major difference is that a player can only have 14 skills active at any time, 7 active ones and 7 passive ones, in sort of the same way as GW has and GW2 will have.
This will lead to players looking more into picking up several disciplines, maybe only like 15 healing oriented skills in the healing lines of skills that they think they'll use most for that, and another 20 or so based upon crowd control and tanking, and so on. Since you can't have more than 14 skills active anyway.
As for whether a natural trinity will emerge, I think it depends on several things. Like if AoE taunting will play a major role in the skills and combat, if you'll need a fully dedicated healer to survive the toughest encounters or that you could manage with a hybrid healer, for that matter if other skill builds are equally valid and effective in group combat as any pure trinity role.
Only after launch time will tell if we'll see emerging team combat that'll be wildly different from trinity setups.
I haven't played a lot of classless MMO's, but it'll be interesting to look back and see how team combat was handled in those, when every player was able to pick their own menu of desired skills.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That trinity will never be broken .. because people always have their ideal character, either if it does more damage or if it supports the class or if it stacks hp to get shmashed around.
You can't get rid of it.
it will never go away.
It haunts you in every game you play.
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
The best we can hope for is modifications and enhancements. Even without true tanks, you'll still have melee characters that will take the brunt of the damage, and ranged characters taking on the DPS roll. Healing will be lumped in with other "Support" rolls.
Except that you don't know if there are healing skills or tank skills and neither do you know how the combat works. And Rift's skill system is an expanded form of other MMOs' talent trees which is not in the slightest how the skill system in TSW works.
This role system will be similar to the late Matrix Online role system where you can brach off into other roles but wont be as effective as another player that spec fully in that role.
The player base will wait and see if what has been promised will really be there when game launchs. Funcom has promised to much in the past and to many folks have been burned. Most will wait and see if what is hyped is there at release.
MAGA
Which is why I said and I quote "Based on what little information I've accumulated from this thread and sources, it sounds ...".
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
What are you talking about?
There most certainly WILL be healing skills available. That was made pretty clear from the GDC gameplay videos posted here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/the-secret-world/11084
In the second gameplay video, Joel Bylos clearly points out that players were using healing magic skills.
I agree, no healing skills at all would've been strange, especially with 500 unique available skills.
But healing skills present doesn't equal trinity. It doesn't exclude it as well. But it also doesn't guarantee it.
Who knows how the end result will be of team combat mechanics.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
To make this clear. TSW will have some 500+ skills as was allready shown in the GDC-walkthrough.
They also showed in much detail, that you can freely choose and, given enough time, train all of those skills available, with only very little set of skills restricted to one of the three factions. All with a single character and you're aswell free to change your setup as often as you want.
They aswell showed some templates that will help you to choose a certain path, i.e. give you an idea of how skills compliment each other, so that you can build an efficient/effective skillset.
No, there won't be classes like in most MMOs and the trinity of tank/dps/heal is basically nowhere to be found in the current information about TSW, but the trinity just works very good, even in games where there's no classes.
The duality is the part you can't do without, as there's allways two things you can't do without: damage and healing. And these two things work best, if they're done with specialized setups, especially geared towards one of those two tasks.
Tanks however are not necessarily needed, especially if there's no aggro-mechanics in PvE. You can simply have some tough guys doing damage standing infront of the healers in that case. So tank and dps become the same and that's basically how it works in PvP ever since.
The trinity makes only sense in games with aggro-management and we've to wait and see, if there's something like that in TSW. If there's no aggro-mechanics, then the duality of dps/tank + support/heal will perfectly do.
That said, I do hope that TSW will have no aggro-mechanics. Doing away with the tanks is making a game much more enjoyable and it makes combat feel more like combat against real players. Give them NPCs a good AI that tries to attack the most threatening players, as taunting NPCs to make them attack you is the most stoopid thing I've ever come across tbh. Shouting at a NPC, telling bad names and stuff isn't threatening, damage- or crowd-control-abilities are threatening.
I have heard so many games claim its gotten rid of the holy trinity but they never do, its just masked in some way though it is really still there.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I'm thinking trinity mechanics in SW might act like they do in EVE.
What, you say EVE has no trinity? Ah, you are wrong there grasshopper. EVE let's players train for any role they chose, but believe me, there are traditional trinity roles in EVE including tanking, dpsing, healing, support (buffing), debuffing and crowd control.
Difference is, the players chose how they want to approach the games challenges, and some fleets follow a traditional trinity model, while others eschew one or more elements and....(this is the important part), are still successful despite the variance.
Yep, that's right, there is no one "right" way to win in EVE, too many factors come into play to make an omni-spec for every situaiton,
So I've played every role in EVE at one time or another, and yet rarely felt shoehorned into a single role. (which is why I stayed away from Captial ships, very singular and specific role)
Hopefully SW can come up with the same sort of balance, successful progress in game using a variety of game tactics, builds and stategies, and we don't find ourselves shoehorned into a single way to win.
(and please Lord, no damn DPS meters)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If there are a lot of different group tactics and team setups that are equally effective as a trinity setup or even better, then a game isn't built around traditional trinity.
A trinity setup is merely one option in a wide range of possible, effective group setups then.
That's a world of difference compared with MMO's where the whole team combat is designed around trinity at its core, as the only or main effective way to handle encounters.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Unfortunately this game will be the next Ryzom.
Ragnar should have continued to make awesome adventure games.
everygame that has tried this has failed. Guild wars 2 is try the same thing and pretty sure it's gonna backfire there is no way u have a mmo without tank healer dps support it just doesn't work cause then either the content is way to easy or u are chuging pots the whole time.