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Lineage 2 vs EQ2 vs WoW, which will survive?

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  • CrazyMonkCrazyMonk Member Posts: 143

    WoW all the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::::28::::::28::::::28::::::28::::::28::::::28::::::28::

  • KurushKurush Member Posts: 1,303

    Lineage 2 is huge in Asia, having recently surpassed its predecessor, Lineage, in terms of subscribers. We have arrived at a point where WoW, Lineage, and Lineage 2 are very close to equal in terms of market share and subscribers. Everquest 2 on the other hand, is a mild success (some might call it a failure), only recently surpassing half the subscribers that Everquest has and reaching its high point of seventh place among MMORPG's, behind WoW, Lineage 2, Lineage, FFXI, Everquest, and Runescape.

    I'm probably full of ****, though, so see for yourself if you want.
    http://www.mmogchart.com/

    I thought I'd add this in an edit to put things into perspective. I don't know how many of you payed attention in econ class. Regardless, this is all blank supposition that has nothing to do with economics. WoW's success is not due to anything revolutionary in game design. People who have played it and other MMO's can vouch for the fact that it added nothing groundbreaking to the genre. It rather compiled all the previous features into an enjoyable game. WoW was a smash hit because it had the publicity, the universal appeal, and, most importantly, because it hit the market at the right time. Exactly the right time. If you think this was some coincidence, you don't give the boys and girls at Blizzard enough credit. Yes, they are owned by VU, but VU is smart enough to let them do things the way they want.

    We've reached a point where the market has "matured". Gone are the days of MMORPG's that most gamers didn't even notice (think the early days of Ultima Online). Gone are the days when MMORPG's were regarded as a fringe gaming segment and held a miniscule market share in terms of sales (think the birth of Everquest). WoW hit the American market at just the right time. Most of the most popular MMO's in the US, FFXI being the notable exception (probably due to migrants from Everquest), were losing subscribers. They delivered something fresh that took a lot of the pain out of MMORPG gaming. That alone may be counted as a revolutionary feature by some. They also delivered it with massive publicity, and they delivered it via a franchise that many gamers were familiar with. People knew, and had enjoyed, the Warcraft series immensely.

    It's hard for me to say anything about Lineage, other than the fact that it was the first quality Asian MMO. Yes, it is older than Everquest. I haven't played it, and I won't pretend to be knowledgeable regarding Korean culture. Regardless, Lineage is what gave NCSoft the power to come to America and start releasing games. City of Heroes never gathered a huge playerbase, but it was significant enough to show that they aren't stupid about catering to their market. Historically, MMORPG sequels have never done as well as their predecessors until a considerable amount of time has elapsed. I have a feeling City of Villains will bust that trend in two, however.

    As far as Everquest, it took a few months to pass Ultima Online as the biggest MMO, but it did. It remains number five, having been passed up by FFXI. Things aren't looking good for EQ2. After the initial purchasing spike, they lost 50,000 subscribers in the space of a month, and it levelled off from there. I guess people weren't too happy.

  • EduardoASGEduardoASG Member Posts: 832

    From the games you posted, its a rather easy answer.

    Lineage2 will die outside Korea. why ? Because has the worst grinding of the 3 listed games, has loads and loads of ebay farmers that will camp your favourite spot and will kill you over and over again, has the stupiest pvp system ever that doesnt really allow you to pvp since if you kill someone and go 'red' you can easly drop that bow or piece of equipment you been working for 6 months to get and you wont have another soon either..

    Its laggy as hell in big battles, and has some serious bugs.

    L2 will be the first to go down followed by Eq2 imo. Eq2 is so boring after 1 or 2 months that you wonder why you ever started playing it.

    Aion, AoC, AC, AO, DDO, Eve, Eq2, GW, MW3, L1&2, RF, RIFT, SWG, SWTOR, TR, UO, WOW, WAR
  • jimmyman99jimmyman99 Member UncommonPosts: 3,221


    Originally posted by Seasonz

    Well.. most MMO's out now are quest based..
    WoW.. EQ2...GW.Pretty soon people will get tired of questing (like me) and welcome the grind only games (lineage2,etc)
    However.. all will survive probably. Actualy EQ2 is already kinda fading, but when PVP releases it will be resurected.

    I cant imagine how a game based on grind can be successful. Maybe its because there arent many games on the market in Asia that arent grind-based. But I believe that as soon as something solid (like WoW) spreads through asia it will pull a lot of people from L2. After all, grinding suggests repetative action, and humans do get tired of doing same old stuff.

    The future of gaming is not in soloing, grinding or questing but rather in its flexibility - ability to provide mixed experience to the player, whether it be soloing, questing, grouping, raiding or grinding/farming.

    I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
    image
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
    imageimage

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    WoW and L2 will both died before EQ2.  However, they may already(by now) have earn their respective companies more then EQ2 will ever earn in the next decades!  image

     

    Blizzard wont handle the exodus nicely and the fall will be as fast as the rise, I am surprised it is still going on, was expecting it to be dead by now.

     

    EQ2 is more customer oriented, they will make sure folks who subscribe are happy, that they have a big enought server, low lag, answered their petition and so on...guilds and raiding also encourage long term and loyalty.

     

    EQ2 will prolly outlive EQ, yet will always be a shadow of what EQ is for it impact on the market.

     

    Blizzard and L2 are not customers oriented, and their average player is not really guild focused or raid oriented, all those 3 factores together will see them drop like rock in water when they will drop.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • jimmyman99jimmyman99 Member UncommonPosts: 3,221


    Originally posted by Anofalye
    WoW and L2 will both died before EQ2. However, they may already(by now) have earn their respective companies more then EQ2 will ever earn in the next decades! image

    Blizzard wont handle the exodus nicely and the fall will be as fast as the rise, I am surprised it is still going on, was expecting it to be dead by now.

    EQ2 is more customer oriented, they will make sure folks who subscribe are happy, that they have a big enought server, low lag, answered their petition and so on...guilds and raiding also encourage long term and loyalty.

    EQ2 will prolly outlive EQ, yet will always be a shadow of what EQ is for it impact on the market.

    Blizzard and L2 are not customers oriented, and their average player is not really guild focused or raid oriented, all those 3 factores together will see them drop like rock in water when they will drop.

    I must disagree with you. Although SOE does support EQ2 more then Bliz support WoW (in a quantity of expansions and new content), still, WoW is VERY casual player oriented while EQ2 is fairly group oriented. Since most people are casual players, WoW will continue rising untill it reaches its peak potential, then slowly start losing customers due to burnout or new MMORPGs and then it will stop at one point because old players keep coming back to play for 1-2 month. This is why WoW will stay on the market, its so casual player friendly, even if someone took several months off, they can rejoin at any time and get into action right away, without the need to relearn the game.

    Unfortunately for EQ2 it restricted its client base to those who have time to invest into grouping, which is not a big client base. It will continue bringing profit no doubt, but I believe EQ2 has reached its peak. It will most likely stay at this level for a while, since most of its client base are hardcore people or people with lots of time on hand, so they are less inclined to leave the game.

    I cant realy comment much on L2, Ive tried it, but it was one solid grindfest so I never played it for long. L2 reminds me of EQ in this sense, and I believe once casual friendly MMORPGs introduce themselves more aggressively into Asian market, we will see less and less people playing grind-oriented games.

    I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
    image
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
    imageimage

  • SeanConnerySeanConnery Member UncommonPosts: 34

    The answer to this question is very simple: They will all survive because all of them will always be profitable. The reason for this is because there will be enough people who get addicted to the game. They will think that they have found the best there could ever possibly be and they will continue to sink hours and hours of their lives into it. They will get to a point where quitting is out of the question because they will feel they have put too much time into it to quit.

    The only way one of these games would 'die' is if some kind of unimaginable screw up happens where every thing that could go wrong in the game, does go wrong, or if the company just wants to stop the game. The second reason is even more unlikely then the first because I am sure they would want to sell the game to someone, in which case the game would still be 'alive.'

    Further more, I don't believe the person who started this thread was thinking very much when he did so.

  • jimmyman99jimmyman99 Member UncommonPosts: 3,221


    Originally posted by SeanConnery
    The answer to this question is very simple: They will all survive because all of them will always be profitable. The reason for this is because there will be enough people who get addicted to the game. They will think that they have found the best there could ever possibly be and they will continue to sink hours and hours of their lives into it. They will get to a point where quitting is out of the question because they will feel they have put too much time into it to quit.
    The only way one of these games would 'die' is if some kind of unimaginable screw up happens where every thing that could go wrong in the game, does go wrong, or if the company just wants to stop the game. The second reason is even more unlikely then the first because I am sure they would want to sell the game to someone, in which case the game would still be 'alive.'
    Further more, I don't believe the person who started this thread was thinking very much when he did so.

    I agree. Although one day it will happen just like it happend to Earth and Beyond, the dev team will decide that its simply not so profitable anymore to support this game and its time to move on to another project. Since WoW and EQ2 are pretty much new games, and L2 doesnt realy have much competition on Asian market, I dont think any of these games will die out anytime soon. All in all, I think L2 will go down first to clear the way for another MMORPG, more casual player friendly one.

    I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
    image
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
    imageimage

  • 92165449216544 Member Posts: 1,904

    L2 will survive with the asians that play. EQ2 will over time become a better mmorpg and survive a long time. WoW slowly decline in population.

  • nutButter123nutButter123 Member Posts: 105

    Can you justify any of that?

    Ballistic!

  • PadwannaPadwanna Member Posts: 4


    Originally posted by 9216544
    L2 will survive with the asians that play. EQ2 will over time become a better mmorpg and survive a long time. WoW slowly decline in population.

    WOW has 450 servers world wide and a player base globally of 500,000. Decline! I don't think so!

    I agree that it's current popularity won't last as it is the flavour of the month right now, and so it's being tried by every casual computer gamer the world over. But I predict that many of those will stay as regulars for years on end as the game goes through ongoing development. EQ2 has got some serious competition on its hands now. If their not worried, they should be. L2 will survive because of the Asian fanbase which is unlikely to change to radically.

    Padwanna.

  • spokeriderspokerider Member Posts: 2
    i doubt that everybody is testing it cuz it is not free and imagine that in an internet cafe of 100 PCs 5 r playing WoW ok ??? if as u say they were testing it,theN 80 pcS WOULD play WoW ok ??? the maximum number of players that will decline r (max) 10000 or 12000 somewhere around there !!!!!!! and i don´t believe EQ2 will last for more than 4 years image about L2 it will last until a better free online game is developed ok ??? wich will propably happen in the next 3-4 years,like MU image first it was very popular but then [email protected] came and the only players from MU r only the fanatics and the players with very high lvl !!!! the same will happen to L2 also imageimageimage about the Asians, they don´t have enough money ok ??? so they prefer free games ok ??? tha´t´s it  imageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimageimage
  • JukanJukan Member Posts: 328

    Ok, a reply to the post above first! First...what did you actually say...can't understand most of your English (I think). Second L2 isn't free! It costs roughly $15 a month. Third your comment about Asians being poor, was very stupid and on the boarder of racism.image

    Now back to the original post! I think WoW will probally be around for a while, depending on expansions...ect...but will decline in numbers because all MMO's do, and because WoW had so many many will also leave. EQ2 may be around too, because ppl like that kind of game type and style...ect. IMO I played EQ2 for 4 weeks and got bored. I have now been playing L2 for the past 5 or so months, and it will definately be around for at least another 5 years because of the Chronicles they release every 6 months or so.

    I have to admit I myself have never played WoW, but it dosn't look like the kind of game that would interest me, mind you I have seen people play it a lot so I have a vauge sense of what it is about.

    Lineage 2 is very different from most games, so people that play it are usually not the main market MMO or gamer! L2 has an HUGE world player base, and WoW in Asia will probally not change that. The reason for this is WoW is geared more towards American and some European game styles. Asian gamers look for a lot of different things in there games. Asian gamers generally like more of a grind/hack and slash game style. Plus graphics to most Asians is one big reason to play a game.

    L2 has free expansions, which draws ppl to it. It will probally not draw people that aren't very social in games because L2 without friends goes nowhere. No clan, can't really solo too much and have much fun, no Sieges...ect. L2 definately, IMO, has the best kind of graphic style! I am not talking about customization and whatnot. I am talking about the painted kind of effect that gives it more realism than a cartoon style WoW, or the 3D plastic look of EQ2.

    In the end, most likely all these games will be around for at least a few year. L2 I don't really see dying because of the Asian market and free Chronicle Expansions, along with its completely freedom in game...meaning no set quests..ect..player make there own game!

    All in all, after compairisons, all these games have the same chance of lasting, as long as people still like them.

    ~MMOs~
    Lineage II - Played 4 years and quit.

    GW: Factions - Boring community, quit 4 months.

    Perfect World - Free and good enough to keep playing. I enjoy it so far.

  • narrowpathnarrowpath Member Posts: 110
    i think a game that may still be in the race is DAOC it may not have the numbers in pop as these games but with its new servers, dedication to improving graphics, and listening to the players this game will outlast all three of the gamesimage
  • deathshadodeathshado Member Posts: 8

    Ever Quest 2 is a major game so is W.O.W. Lineage i've never played but i dont think it will effect all. EQII is Gargantua and WOW is addictive... but lineage might now survive if each person from it tried both EQII and WOW... if you get my jist::::02::

  • PortaPorta Member Posts: 33

    The first one to dispatch of monthly subscription fees, (although in and of itself this probably won't happen). If it were possible, and another form of revenue generation was explored (in-game advertising maybe?), I can't think of a better way to draw in and keep a large, strong player base.

    I've played all four games (DAoC, Lineage2, EQ2, WoW), and in their own right they were all good.

    DAoC: Mythic messed up royally with 2 consecutive expansions (ToA and Frontiers). So much so that they opened up "classic" servers that reverted gameplay to exclude some of the newer content. Class changes, or "nerfs" were performed regularly... too regularly, in that classes could change completely in a matter of months. The only element that made up for this is the fact that players could create and level a character to max level very quickly if the one they previously played became undesirable to them. Despite these problems, subscriber populations remained largely stable, not dropping too much but there was no growth either. Unless they do something truly amazing, this game will probably get cannibalized by other titles slowly over time.

    EQ2: Ultimately I don't think SOE listens to, or understands the needs & wants of MMOG gamers very well. The subscriber base has been consistantly declining, with very little new customer growth. It could be a combination of the constant "nickle and diming" philosophy they embrace with new content and bonus web tools, making this one of the most (if not the most) expensive MMOG on the market today. More likely however, the loss is probably a result of the overwhelming lack of continuity and reliability of the game's content. The complete overhaul to the combat system was (IMHO) a huge mistake, as through this SOE undermined their subscribers by changing classes players had spent months learning, and enjoyed playing. On the raid-level, guilds who had spent months learning how to accomplish game goals together had the system completely re-written for them, and ultimately, players' characters were no different to them if they had picked up a max-level character on EBAY. Finally, despite the extra costs of updated content, it is consistantly riddled with bugs, many of which render these newer elements (and sometimes older elements), completely unrewarding or sometimes, unplayable. I don't see this one lasting much longer, unless SOE cleans up their act, and wakes up to smell the coffee.

    Lineage 2: This is a fantastic game in its' own right, but hasn't done enough to control the for-real-world-profit farming to increase its' appeal to North American markets. The very slow level/grind process of levelling up does repel a certain type of gamer, which is both a good and a bad thing. While it may not attract a certain kind of gamer, it will keep another style of gamer by being true to this style of gameplay without "dumbing it down". They could have more character customization, particularly in terms of player differentiation, but most who do play it don't seem to mind because the races are all very beautiful. I don't expect to see a lot of growth for this game, because due to the very harsh nature of it's PVP implementation it is very difficult for newcomers to establish themselves.

    WoW: Blizzard understands the needs and desires of gamers rather well, and has (IMHO) succeeded in creating an attractive, modern game that does not require a total system overhaul for most people to play. The result of doing this may mean some gamers feel it isn't "realistic" enough to play, but in its' own right the graphical environment is appealing in a stylistic sense. I once was guilty of saying the game was "too cartoony" before I played it, and now I prefer the look of the game over more realistic games like EQ2. Character variety may be somewhat lacking, and player communities a bit too transient for long-term gameplay, but despite the games few shortcomings one cannot debate the constant and substantial growth in popularity of WoW... 5 million subscribers worldwide is unprecidented. WoW's growth factor could largely be a result of new servers being introduced regularly, allowing anyone new to the game a chance to have a "fresh start". This also appeals to subscribers who have been around a while, but would like to enjoy the feel of a "fresh start" all over again, thusly holding on to subscribers longer than they would if they did not introduce new servers regularly. Whatevery they're doing, they're doing something (or several things) right, and game developers everywhere should be taking notes. I can't see this one slowing down any time soon. I'm certain it's already responsible for cannibalizing much of the competative MMOG market.

    That's my opinion. We may not yet have seen many MMOG game closures, but because there are so many titles out today, and more coming out every quarter, we're bound to see server closures more often in the future.

    .........................................................
    Addicted to MMO's since '98.

    No point listing my game titles, classes & levels. Accomplishing anything in an MMO these days is so bloody common that nobody really gives a crap.

  • Cuj0Cuj0 Member Posts: 81

    Great necroposting btw O.o

    L2 will survive. For me, WoW is incert.. but, unfortunately, it will survive cuz of many blizzard fanboys.

    ..hax..

  • PortaPorta Member Posts: 33

    Thanks!

    I love posts like this one. Speculation is always so much fun =D

    .........................................................
    Addicted to MMO's since '98.

    No point listing my game titles, classes & levels. Accomplishing anything in an MMO these days is so bloody common that nobody really gives a crap.

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