id just like to say, that as the years go by, the graphics on games constantly increase, some games, like eq2 or l2 have great graphics and in the years to come they will be outdated(but not be totally unplayable)
yet world of warcraft, already has outdated graphics. and its not even been out a year.
don't use the old exuse "gameplay>graphics" not true anymore, graphics are now 90% of a game.
the atmosphere/effects in some of these games are amazing.. But not in WoW.
the main attack of a rogue? they just normally stab the enemy and a little purple glow appears. woooo... You level to 60 and guess what? your moves are the exact same. Even on mages, the skills are all so boring. the cast animations are you just standing there with a aura over your hands and then you shoot out a ball, or turn your enemy into a sheep. Then theres the whole overlapping items, like swords on your back that go through your cape as it swings. And the horrible look of armors and textures(so blurry).
That was my main problem with the game, no matter how much you leveled, no matter how hard you worked, your still doing the same boring swings over and over. And the spell gfx are all horrible besides cone of cold and maybe the ones where fire/ice/darkarrows rain from the sky. Other then that the game is rather sub-par on visuals.
Sure its made to have a fantasy look. But you could still acheive the same style only more refined.
the character models in WoW are almost enough to make someone vomit. (really really blocky, and ugly)
a example
the game itself is really good, but the graphics even when the game was first released, were outdated. But tell me the truth if i were to show you screenshots of lineage 2 or ultima online, and after not playing either, which would you play first?...thats right, you would play l2.
WoW and L2 will survive...EQ2 though... is horrible, the characters and areas just look bad, the combat is horrible(worst ive ever played in any mmo of all time(and thats after playing astonia 3, where you just stand there and occassionaly press buttons)). And it should be buried.
Wow Bladin I have to say you're offically retarded. Graphics are 90% of games? You must really like the Myst series then. The chracters in Eq2 look bad? What do you have a commodore 64?
No offense bladin but graphics are all that really matters in games the gameplay matters a whole lot aswell like Lineage 1 its graphics arent great but millions of people still play it because the gameplay rocks
70 % of a game are the graphics. I will stop playing a game if the art and the graphics are bad. I can't stand looking at a game with bad art. Graphic term wise it's like this: World of Warcraft > Everquest 2 > Lineage 2 Why? Because of the art lead. Both Lineage 2 and Everquest 2 have higher polygon counts and more advanced effects. But what does it mattter when the art sucks ass. I have NEVER seen more ugly eviroments than in the everquest series. I just plain sucks. Looks like something that has been put togheter in one evening. Walking around in World of Warcraft never makes you think a object is malplaced. Everything looks like it has a purpose and is ment to be where it is. While in Lineage 2 and EQ 2 it looks like objects have been placed there random, with no purpose whatsoever. Gameplay wise I like World of Warcraft the most. Less grind. Content wise I think it stands like this EQ 2 > World of Warcraft > Lineage 2 EQ 2 will probably survive longest because SOE adds alot of content all the time. But they also have the experience in this. After EQ 1.
Originally posted by MagicSky CHEATERS There will be cheaters in almost every game and I agree with the person that asked: why play at all if u need to cheat ? BETA PROBLEMS Bugs is another question and I really respect companies that does a wipe when ending beta. In many games duplication bugs and such found during beta gives some players an advantage that will be there forever if all chars arent erased when beta ends. Beta players whine, I know, but they still have a big advantage by knowing a lot of the game that others dont. BOTS Regarding bots, if ppl didnt buy in-game-items on the web the problem wouldnt exist. Look at Ebay, selling adena in L2 is big business for some. SURVIVING GAMES I think the survival of the different games will be based on gameplay. WoW Certainly WoW will survive, its a much easier game than others, no penalties. lots of quest that gives lots of exp, in partys all gets the quest item, dying is no big deal ( u loose like 2-4 min of play). 5 guys working toghether can make lvl 20 in 2 days, one guy made like lvl 50+ on a US-server in 3-4 weeks !! = game solved. This is a kids game, easy, good enough graphics and sound and a lot of players that felt L2, EQ2 and others where too hard, lots of drops and the PvP is nearly non-existent even on the PvP-servers. and you can playit running like a mindless chicken as in CS or DOOM, and you dont have to bother about frag count. WoW is going to take a lot of kids out of the other games, hopefully- LINEAGE2 L2 has outstanding graphics and character personality but the PvP system really sux. Ii is so easy to make "someone gor red" and loose his/hers gear by tricking them. I whish mmorpg developers took a look at the PvP-system in AE (Ashen Empire), it is outstanding either you like to be good or bad. Botting problem has decreased a lot but will probably always exist, companies like to have paying accounts. Not always do they see the bigger picture. But its a pretty hard game, especially if you solo EQ2 Havent tried, but been recommended. Ppl says its a really hard game for those who like to play and struggle to get forward, not just spend time in a game.
But this is my opinions only, even though Im never wrong MagicSky
lvl 50 in 3-4 weeks are u kidding with me? my friend that played the beta and everything made lvl 60! in 3,5 weeks , and heard that one in eu made 60 in about 2 weeks ,
Originally posted by Phoenixs 70 % of a game are the graphics. I will stop playing a game if the art and the graphics are bad. I can't stand looking at a game with bad art. Graphic term wise it's like this: World of Warcraft > Everquest 2 > Lineage 2 Why? Because of the art lead. Both Lineage 2 and Everquest 2 have higher polygon counts and more advanced effects. But what does it mattter when the art sucks ass. I have NEVER seen more ugly eviroments than in the everquest series. I just plain sucks. Looks like something that has been put togheter in one evening. Walking around in World of Warcraft never makes you think a object is malplaced. Everything looks like it has a purpose and is ment to be where it is. While in Lineage 2 and EQ 2 it looks like objects have been placed there random, with no purpose whatsoever. Gameplay wise I like World of Warcraft the most. Less grind. Content wise I think it stands like this EQ 2 > World of Warcraft > Lineage 2 EQ 2 will probably survive longest because SOE adds alot of content all the time. But they also have the experience in this. After EQ 1.
ok in ART, Lineage2 > WoW > EQ2
apparently you haven't gone through the different environments of Lineage2, it really is breathtaking. One memorable place was when I first went to enchanted valley... calm reflective shallow waters, gentle water falls, valleys, at the same time it seemed you were imersed in water with colorful strange plants growing and the strange water crystals here and there. Man there's tons more
Dungeons... don't get me started... very intense and thrilling.
you really haven't played Lineage2 or you haven't explored enough, graphics are freakin amazing in Lin2, don't ever rank Lin2 last, cuz that's just plain stupidity, FLAT OUT.
I was talking about the overall appearence here. Lineage 2 has some good points graphic wise (Like you pointed out) But most of the "normal" areas look way too plain and flat. They just look boring. Not much variety in models used etc.
Originally posted by Phoenixs I was talking about the overall appearence here. Lineage 2 has some good points graphic wise (Like you pointed out) But most of the "normal" areas look way too plain and flat. They just look boring. Not much variety in models used etc. Just look here:
if I put a WoW character on a flat plain grass land field, Lineage2 would still look better... come on now... plus nobody ever hangs out on a flat grass land field unless you are lvl 1-20 and getting used to the game.
Goto Lineage2.com download some vids... it doesn't show some of the best but it does give you a taste of environments for lvls 30 and up.
I've said before I didn't personally care for L2 but I did like the graphics. I agree with Bum on the fact that the higher lvl you get, the environments start to look cooler.
Originally posted by Phoenixs 70 % of a game are the graphics. I will stop playing a game if the art and the graphics are bad. I can't stand looking at a game with bad art. Graphic term wise it's like this: World of Warcraft > Everquest 2 > Lineage 2 Why? Because of the art lead. Both Lineage 2 and Everquest 2 have higher polygon counts and more advanced effects. But what does it mattter when the art sucks ass. I have NEVER seen more ugly eviroments than in the everquest series. I just plain sucks. Looks like something that has been put togheter in one evening. Walking around in World of Warcraft never makes you think a object is malplaced. Everything looks like it has a purpose and is ment to be where it is. While in Lineage 2 and EQ 2 it looks like objects have been placed there random, with no purpose whatsoever. Gameplay wise I like World of Warcraft the most. Less grind. Content wise I think it stands like this EQ 2 > World of Warcraft > Lineage 2 EQ 2 will probably survive longest because SOE adds alot of content all the time. But they also have the experience in this. After EQ 1.
I seriously think that you have a shallow review of Lineage2 graphics and art. Come on man, WoW is cartoonish and 70% of the graphics are copied from their existing game engine from Warcraft 3. That's like recycled and then refurbished into a new product. I'm not one bit impressed with the WoW graphics. With the grind issue, that I would say L2 definitely got a bad score on that. In terms of graphics? please.. don't get me started
Originally posted by tomtfd wow deffinetleyit has so many subscribers, it will still be going in 7 years from now
I don't think wow will still be in good contender after 7 years..... wake up ur idea... it's too soon to tell a game that lasts that long especially for p2p.
i would go with l2 even WoW is very good game l2 still has better graphics and yes if u take a pic of l2 on a flat ground and take a pic of WoW on flat ground L2 will look better and if u take a pic of l2 in hills ad WoW in hills L2 wopuld still look better but it is very tru that once u get a higher lvl the terrain gets better
You should also add that most of Lineage 2 has already left the game to play in private servers and others left to real mmorpgs like WoW. NCSoft cosed its support and community forums to non paying costumers because of players complayning and leaving. Last time I checked the forums, before my account got expired, they were talking about re-activating banned accounts of players that broke the TOS... LOL
Originally posted by sysadmin Yes, it is true. You should also add that most of Lineage 2 has already left the game to play in private servers and others left to real mmorpgs like WoW. NCSoft cosed its support and community forums to non paying costumers because of players complayning and leaving. Last time I checked the forums, before my account got expired, they were talking about re-activating banned accounts of players that broke the TOS... LOL
i left to play CoH for a couple months....and then wow until present.
I think the fact that they are all running right now has proven that they can all run. Why does only one have to survive. MMOs are not a niche market anymore.
Originally posted by ExMachina I think the fact that they are all running right now has proven that they can all run. Why does only one have to survive. MMOs are not a niche market anymore.
there can only be one, FTW!!!
kidding....competition is good for everything, lin2 made the other games step up their graphics and pvp style....i liked lin2 cuz it was hardcore and you could kill folks...but i think wow has takin that to the next stage with the pvp alliance vs horde, thing.... ganking sucks, but war is hell... and there is no such thing as fair fights.
L2 may hve better graphics but WOW is jus plain out better game battle system character develpment.(IMO) The only thing L2 has over WOW i think is graphics and number of classes. And FFXI has the worst battle system ever.
Originally posted by romulox L2 may hve better graphics but WOW is jus plain out better game battle system character develpment.(IMO) The only thing L2 has over WOW i think is graphics and number of classes. And FFXI has the worst battle system ever.
WoW battle system is better??? are you insane?! Character Development? you mean those talent points that tweak your character .0000001 a tad bit different from any other class you're in? Come up with something better if you haven't fully tried L2.
Originally posted by Vampyr if we want to look at this from a practical view L2 has not chance in hell. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUBSCRITION OR GAME FEATURES OR QUALITY. it has to do with the fact that both blizzard and sony entertainment have otehr sources of income then MMORPG's. and as we all know MMORPG's popularity fades or at least every mmorpg eventually fades. but Sony entertainment and blizzard both make other games therefore can fund to improve adn advertise game even if it is going downhill, through the sell of non MMORPG. adn we all know this market is about fads to an extent. that is to say when a game comes out with a new or improved feature people run like ducks to it. so Lineage2 is the doomed one out of the 3 but this is all LONG TERM.
Vladamir the impaler
WoW includes cancelled accounts......and 3 guilds of 60s on Boulderfist all cancelled this month alone. People are quitting WoW left and right now that there have been reviews of the honor system. WoW is a niche....less complex than L2, more complex than CoH, but without the co-operation of FFXI. WoW is fun at times, but it doesn't excel at anything....not to mention is hacked and the economy is ruined on most servers already. Items for 10k gold already sold on 2 servers that i know of.
This isn't to say WoW won't survive, I just doubt it will be the top. Heck people left WoW for Matrix ><
PS...L2 is getting a rebirth right now, my WoW guild is going back for chapter 3 ^^
woah....its funny when one goes into a thread one isnt used to....ok, lin2 is kinda garbage to wow....alot of people are taking time off mainly cuz alot of us have been playing since august and october and taking a break is good.
the graphics arent necessarily shittier than lin2, they are purposely funner... graphics in lin2 are somewhat limited, especially with character uniqueness...
most wow people dont even know what mxo or anyother mmorpg is, and thats cool, a breath of fresh air^^
battlegrounds are going to be way phatter than seiges
at this moment wow owns lin2, but lin2 still has a chance to compete.
oh yea.....BLIZZARD is american boi!!!! support yur troops^^ fuck ncsoft and their puppet company ncsoft NA
Comments
id just like to say, that as the years go by, the graphics on games constantly increase, some games, like eq2 or l2 have great graphics and in the years to come they will be outdated(but not be totally unplayable)
yet world of warcraft, already has outdated graphics. and its not even been out a year.
don't use the old exuse "gameplay>graphics" not true anymore, graphics are now 90% of a game.
the atmosphere/effects in some of these games are amazing.. But not in WoW.
the main attack of a rogue? they just normally stab the enemy and a little purple glow appears. woooo... You level to 60 and guess what? your moves are the exact same. Even on mages, the skills are all so boring. the cast animations are you just standing there with a aura over your hands and then you shoot out a ball, or turn your enemy into a sheep. Then theres the whole overlapping items, like swords on your back that go through your cape as it swings. And the horrible look of armors and textures(so blurry).
That was my main problem with the game, no matter how much you leveled, no matter how hard you worked, your still doing the same boring swings over and over. And the spell gfx are all horrible besides cone of cold and maybe the ones where fire/ice/darkarrows rain from the sky. Other then that the game is rather sub-par on visuals.
Sure its made to have a fantasy look. But you could still acheive the same style only more refined.
the character models in WoW are almost enough to make someone vomit. (really really blocky, and ugly)
a example
the game itself is really good, but the graphics even when the game was first released, were outdated. But tell me the truth if i were to show you screenshots of lineage 2 or ultima online, and after not playing either, which would you play first?...thats right, you would play l2.
WoW and L2 will survive...EQ2 though... is horrible, the characters and areas just look bad, the combat is horrible(worst ive ever played in any mmo of all time(and thats after playing astonia 3, where you just stand there and occassionaly press buttons)). And it should be buried.
Wow Bladin I have to say you're offically retarded. Graphics are 90% of games? You must really like the Myst series then. The chracters in Eq2 look bad? What do you have a commodore 64?
70 % of a game are the graphics. I will stop playing a game if the art and the graphics are bad. I can't stand looking at a game with bad art. Graphic term wise it's like this: World of Warcraft > Everquest 2 > Lineage 2 Why? Because of the art lead. Both Lineage 2 and Everquest 2 have higher polygon counts and more advanced effects. But what does it mattter when the art sucks ass. I have NEVER seen more ugly eviroments than in the everquest series. I just plain sucks. Looks like something that has been put togheter in one evening.
Walking around in World of Warcraft never makes you think a object is malplaced. Everything looks like it has a purpose and is ment to be where it is. While in Lineage 2 and EQ 2 it looks like objects have been placed there random, with no purpose whatsoever.
Gameplay wise I like World of Warcraft the most. Less grind. Content wise I think it stands like this EQ 2 > World of Warcraft > Lineage 2 EQ 2 will probably survive longest because SOE adds alot of content all the time. But they also have the experience in this. After EQ 1.
ok in ART, Lineage2 > WoW > EQ2
apparently you haven't gone through the different environments of Lineage2, it really is breathtaking.
One memorable place was when I first went to enchanted valley... calm reflective shallow waters, gentle water falls, valleys, at the same time it seemed you were imersed in water with colorful strange plants growing and the strange water crystals here and there. Man there's tons more
Dungeons... don't get me started... very intense and thrilling.
you really haven't played Lineage2 or you haven't explored enough, graphics are freakin amazing in Lin2, don't ever rank Lin2 last, cuz that's just plain stupidity, FLAT OUT.
I was talking about the overall appearence here. Lineage 2 has some good points graphic wise (Like you pointed out) But most of the "normal" areas look way too plain and flat. They just look boring. Not much variety in models used etc.
Just look here:
if I put a WoW character on a flat plain grass land field, Lineage2 would still look better... come on now... plus nobody ever hangs out on a flat grass land field unless you are lvl 1-20 and getting used to the game.
Goto Lineage2.com download some vids... it doesn't show some of the best but it does give you a taste of environments for lvls 30 and up.
I've said before I didn't personally care for L2 but I did like the graphics. I agree with Bum on the fact that the higher lvl you get, the environments start to look cooler.
I seriously think that you have a shallow review of Lineage2 graphics and art. Come on man, WoW is cartoonish and 70% of the graphics are copied from their existing game engine from Warcraft 3. That's like recycled and then refurbished into a new product. I'm not one bit impressed with the WoW graphics. With the grind issue, that I would say L2 definitely got a bad score on that. In terms of graphics? please.. don't get me started
wow deffinetley
it has so many subscribers, it will still be going in 7 years from now
I don't think wow will still be in good contender after 7 years..... wake up ur idea... it's too soon to tell a game that lasts that long especially for p2p.
Hael
Oviously WoW because it has been on the market the least amount of time considering all the downtime they have been having lol!
no but really, i think WoW.
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wasnt lin2 over back in june of last year^^
the situation is, i'm not going to try and compete against some rich kid who can buy all their adena from ige....thats why i quit, fuck that.
Yes, it is true.
You should also add that most of Lineage 2 has already left the game to play in private servers and others left to real mmorpgs like WoW. NCSoft cosed its support and community forums to non paying costumers because of players complayning and leaving. Last time I checked the forums, before my account got expired, they were talking about re-activating banned accounts of players that broke the TOS... LOL
I think the fact that they are all running right now has proven that they can all run. Why does only one have to survive. MMOs are not a niche market anymore.
there can only be one, FTW!!!
kidding....competition is good for everything, lin2 made the other games step up their graphics and pvp style....i liked lin2 cuz it was hardcore and you could kill folks...but i think wow has takin that to the next stage with the pvp alliance vs horde, thing.... ganking sucks, but war is hell... and there is no such thing as fair fights.
L2 may hve better graphics but WOW is jus plain out better game battle system character develpment.(IMO) The only thing L2 has over WOW i think is graphics and number of classes. And FFXI has the worst battle system ever.
WoW battle system is better??? are you insane?! Character Development? you mean those talent points that tweak your character .0000001 a tad bit different from any other class you're in? Come up with something better if you haven't fully tried L2.
http://vod.lineage2.co.kr/lineage2/2005/2005-03-03-digitaltiger.zip
this will end this "Which game will survive" question.
This is C3 video, which is only the 3rd patch, got like 11 more coming I believe.
WoW includes cancelled accounts......and 3 guilds of 60s on Boulderfist all cancelled this month alone. People are quitting WoW left and right now that there have been reviews of the honor system. WoW is a niche....less complex than L2, more complex than CoH, but without the co-operation of FFXI. WoW is fun at times, but it doesn't excel at anything....not to mention is hacked and the economy is ruined on most servers already. Items for 10k gold already sold on 2 servers that i know of.
This isn't to say WoW won't survive, I just doubt it will be the top. Heck people left WoW for Matrix ><
PS...L2 is getting a rebirth right now, my WoW guild is going back for chapter 3 ^^
woah....its funny when one goes into a thread one isnt used to....ok, lin2 is kinda garbage to wow....alot of people are taking time off mainly cuz alot of us have been playing since august and october and taking a break is good.
the graphics arent necessarily shittier than lin2, they are purposely funner... graphics in lin2 are somewhat limited, especially with character uniqueness...
most wow people dont even know what mxo or anyother mmorpg is, and thats cool, a breath of fresh air^^
battlegrounds are going to be way phatter than seiges
at this moment wow owns lin2, but lin2 still has a chance to compete.
oh yea.....BLIZZARD is american boi!!!! support yur troops^^ fuck ncsoft and their puppet company ncsoft NA