Its beyond my mind how ppl think a bioware game can flop they bring ton of fans with them who dont even play mmorpg and TOR has a huge IP with Star Wars. IF this games fail than i dunno which next mmorpg can even succeed.
Do you own a copy of their Sonic RPG?
That was pretty much a flop.
MDK2 wasn't exactly gangbusters either, though that's an older game, so maybe not as fair.
Still. I mean, c'mon, Sonic has lots of dedicated fans, look at all the truly crappy Sonic games that still manage to sell somehow. Yet Bioware didn't manage to do some mystical magic that made it a guaranteed best seller.
(... not that I'm suggesting Star Wars is like Sonic... though there are a lot of crappy Star Wars games. Hmmm....)
Link doesn't go to the poll...I hope this isn't left over trash from april fools day. -.-;
Either way, they said WoW was suppose to be so awesome and this huge success yet no matter how many times I went back to give it a chance I(an avid mmoer) just couldn't get into this 'best made mmo evar!11" so I'll take it as comfort that the game(GW2) I'm looking forward to and hoping that delivers is the less popular one.
It's just like in high school and real life, the really really popular people have no souls; likewise with games.
...though I'll still be looking at TOR if for nothing else than my KOTOR III-XVIII (or w/e) like they promised.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Its beyond my mind how ppl think a bioware game can flop they bring ton of fans with them who dont even play mmorpg and TOR has a huge IP with Star Wars. IF this games fail than i dunno which next mmorpg can even succeed.
Do you own a copy of their Sonic RPG?
That was pretty much a flop.
MDK2 wasn't exactly gangbusters either, though that's an older game, so maybe not as fair.
Still. I mean, c'mon, Sonic has lots of dedicated fans, look at all the truly crappy Sonic games that still manage to sell somehow. Yet Bioware didn't manage to do some mystical magic that made it a guaranteed best seller.
(... not that I'm suggesting Star Wars is like Sonic... though there are a lot of crappy Star Wars games. Hmmm....)
Ah common you know that sonic was a cheap DS game u can´t really compare this to high budget games like kotor,da or mass effect.
And please making a rpg out of sonic is impossible thats like making a Street Fighter MMORPG.
MDK2 wasn't exactly gangbusters either, though that's an older game, so maybe not as fair.
Oh, come on. Iirc MDK2 was received pretty well in its days and in some ways even considered an improved upon the first MDK. Although you're right in that it's a bit irrelevant to mention a game of 10+ years ago. Else I might as well mention the awsomeness that the Baldur's Gate saga was.
Originally posted by Cavod
Either way, they said WoW was suppose to be so awesome and this huge success yet no matter how many times I went back to give it a chance I(an avid mmoer) just couldn't get into this 'best made mmo evar!11" so I'll take it as comfort that the game(GW2) I'm looking forward to and hoping that delivers is the less popular one.
It's just like in high school and real life, the really really popular people have no souls; likewise with games.
I think you're contradicting yourself. Look at the hype meter here, and you see that GW2 is the most popular one, also when you look at other sites and polls you'll notice that SWTOR and GW2 both are on the top of most anticipated upcoming MMO's and the most popular, leaving a large gap in expectation and popularity with other MMO's.
So, in your reasoning that'd mean that GW2 is soulless too... see the error in reasoning there?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think the biggest problem to the MMO scheme of SW:ToR is it's whole story pull, TBH... If you think about it, offering "200 hours" of "unique" game play per class is a little much. People seem to be quite excited by this fact, but not many people seem take into account how this will affect end-game population...
Where will the epic end game PvP battles take place, if once you reach the end of your story arc you feel compelled to roll a new character to see what is next on the list. Where will the battle of the Republic and the Empire be held if all of the Knights wanted to roll a smuggler, and the Bounty Hunters felt compelled to visit the Sith? This is an MMORPG that seems to be catering very much to the single-player community, and if a large part of this population is going to focus on just ripping through story after story instead of concentrating on the living world around them, I'm sorry but the community will be extremely weak and mundane, and end game will not be as populated or engaging as other games.
MMORPGs are not designed to focus on story, they should focus on developing a community, and working their way up from there. Perhaps there will be a large number of people subbing, but if the "single-player" community is not separated from the "MMO" community, the servers could be very unstable and that will lead to problems down the road...
I think you're contradicting yourself. Look at the hype meter here, and you see that GW2 is the most popular one, also when you look at other sites and polls you'll notice that SWTOR and GW2 both are on the top of most anticipated upcoming MMO's and the most popular, leaving a large gap in expectation and popularity with other MMO's.
Eh, MDK2 was better than MDK, but that's not saying a LOT. It was an okay game. I'm just saying that Bioware game >< Instant success, or critically acclaimed. The whole idea of 'too big to fail' is a bad one. People should like SW:ToR on its own merits (and it has plenty), not just say it'll autosucceed because it's Bioware. The idea of a game succeeding JUST because of the company is... ugh. I don't like that. I accidentally deleted what I was responding to, but that's okay, I'm sure you can remember what you were saying!
Also, I wanted to respond to the part I actually did quote and not delete... I think if you really look carefully at the hype meter, you'll find that while GW2 is higher rated, it also has considerably less ratings than SW:TOR. In fact, if you look at which part of the site gets more hits, you'll see that SW:TOR is visited a lot more than GW2. Even on this site, GW2 is not the most popular game. (PS, this has nothing to do with me thinking the most popular people are soulless, it just means I'm a stickler for exactness, and don't want people thinking GW2 is wanted by more people than SW:TOR, even on this site.)
I think the biggest problem to the MMO scheme of SW:ToR is it's whole story pull, TBH... If you think about it, offering "200 hours" of "unique" game play per class is a little much. People seem to be quite excited by this fact, but not many people seem take into account how this will affect end-game population...
Where will the epic end game PvP battles take place, if once you reach the end of your story arc you feel compelled to roll a new character to see what is next on the list. Where will the battle of the Republic and the Empire be held if all of the Knights wanted to roll a smuggler, and the Bounty Hunters felt compelled to visit the Sith? This is an MMORPG that seems to be catering very much to the single-player community, and if a large part of this population is going to focus on just ripping through story after story instead of concentrating on the living world around them, I'm sorry but the community will be extremely weak and mundane, and end game will not be as populated or engaging as other games.
MMORPGs are not designed to focus on story, they should focus on developing a community, and working their way up from there. Perhaps there will be a large number of people subbing, but if the "single-player" community is not separated from the "MMO" community, the servers could be very unstable and that will lead to problems down the road...
/$0.02
While I think you may have a point there if BioWare doesn't deliver on what they say, what they have spoken about in regards to the way questing works aids in the community and is less focused on just "single player" story after "single player" story.
The way your story is setup, you will be traveling to planets, then different areas of planets, then back again throughout your entire storyline. You won't leave your starter planet, never to return.. on the contrary, you will be back, and you'll have reasons to come back thats not only part of your storyline, but for end game content too.
Not to mention you'll be running these missions in an open world.. not in an instance where you don't see other people, and they've said that they'll never force you to reroll a character. The way they designed the game is so that you will always feel like there is something going on.
Im going to play both, so it doesnt matter for me when they launch. SWTOR for the KOTOR rollercoaster experience, but this time together with friends and GW2 for pure awesomeness and hopefully again great PVP.
EDIT: The reason I say both is because GW2 doesnt have a sub. So like I did with Nightfall campain and EotN exp for GW, I also bought those boxes while I was playing a different MMO at that moment.
While I think you may have a point there if BioWare doesn't deliver on what they say, what they have spoken about in regards to the way questing works aids in the community and is less focused on just "single player" story after "single player" story.
The way your story is setup, you will be traveling to planets, then different areas of planets, then back again throughout your entire storyline. You won't leave your starter planet, never to return.. on the contrary, you will be back, and you'll have reasons to come back thats not only part of your storyline, but for end game content too.
Not to mention you'll be running these missions in an open world.. not in an instance where you don't see other people, and they've said that they'll never force you to reroll a character. The way they designed the game is so that you will always feel like there is something going on.
I understand and applaud Bioware for their thought on having your actions impact the community, as it lends to purpose in the battle. That being said, the "community" I speak of is one of more on a social level. A "single-player" individual will be attacted to this game. He reads these forums and is drooling over the fact that someone keeps repeating the "200 hours of Bioware story" per character. He can chose to take up a spot on one of many servers, but never really interact with the community outside of his questing directly affecting the environment. Obviously, where needed, he may join a group to perform a task or do a flash point that he can't do by himself...but ultimately, within the community, he will be a non-factor.
Like it or not, these people will exist, and they will randomly chose servers in a fashion that no one can counter-balance. There is a reason many people don't like the MMO model of gaming, and believe me, it's not just the lack of non-high fantasy genre (although I'll admit that is one). Bioware attempting to lure these people into this framework will either succeed in converting them, or succeed at getting subs at the risk of server imbalance and community erosion, it doesn't seem like there is much of a middle ground there.
Community is extremely important to a game's survivability. I'd have to say Warhammer Online had probably the best community of any MMO I've ever played, and I honestly think it's due to the fact that there was a competitive nature to it, and you did feel it was necessary to invovle yourself in the social aspect of the game. Granted, the game turned out horrible, but had they been able to fix the glaring mistakes that they so obviously ignored, I think it would have been possible for WAR to be extremely successful... I think SW:ToR has the makings to possibly remake this environment, but their focus on engaging story and lurring non-MMO playing fanboys to their subscription based game is just going to lead to shills and another ho-hum community.
We'll see, however... We'll see...
PS: I know rerolling is obviously not forced, but it is encouraged and probably one of the largest driving forces of this game (because face it, when it comes down to it, nothing positively new and gamechanging is being incorporated).
I think you're contradicting yourself. Look at the hype meter here, and you see that GW2 is the most popular one, also when you look at other sites and polls you'll notice that SWTOR and GW2 both are on the top of most anticipated upcoming MMO's and the most popular, leaving a large gap in expectation and popularity with other MMO's.
Eh, MDK2 was better than MDK, but that's not saying a LOT. It was an okay game. I'm just saying that Bioware game >< Instant success, or critically acclaimed. The whole idea of 'too big to fail' is a bad one. People should like SW:ToR on its own merits (and it has plenty), not just say it'll autosucceed because it's Bioware. The idea of a game succeeding JUST because of the company is... ugh. I don't like that. I accidentally deleted what I was responding to, but that's okay, I'm sure you can remember what you were saying!
I think the majority of reasonable and sensible people don't assume that a game of even the best of game companies will just auto-succeed: newer games may not completely fail, but they can easily be just good or ok instead of great and awesome. Look at Bullfrog or Westwood Studios, gaming history is littered with once-great gaming companies that fell into decline. What a good or great trackrecord can do is generate goodwill and a good rep, which makes it more likely to believe that they can deliver what they're striving for. Just like when you hear that Christopher Nolan or Tim Burton is making a new movie, you pay more attention to what the movie'll be than if it had been another director, or that when you buy a new BMW the reputation of sturdiness in combination with style and BMW's reputation of being decent cars work to their advantage as well.
Of course, goodwill can also be lost again.
Also, I wanted to respond to the part I actually did quote and not delete... I think if you really look carefully at the hype meter, you'll find that while GW2 is higher rated, it also has considerably less ratings than SW:TOR. In fact, if you look at which part of the site gets more hits, you'll see that SW:TOR is visited a lot more than GW2. Even on this site, GW2 is not the most popular game. (PS, this has nothing to do with me thinking the most popular people are soulless, it just means I'm a stickler for exactness, and don't want people thinking GW2 is wanted by more people than SW:TOR, even on this site.)
If you want to be exact, you should consider that there can be various reasons as to why a game section is visited more. As with tv, newspapers, sites, forums and a lot of things in real life, controversy generates a lot of attention and discussion, a good scandal or rumor about a famous star will, how sadly telling it may be of human nature, often generate a lot more and longer attention than worthier topics like famine in Africa or natural disasters in Asia.
And when it comes to controversy, then yes, SWTOR is definitely leading any list in popularity when it comes to topic of discussion
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you want to be exact, you should consider that there can be various reasons as to why a game section is visited more. As with tv, newspapers, sites, forums and a lot of things in real life, controversy generates a lot of attention and discussion, a good scandal or rumor about a famous star will, how sadly telling it may be of human nature, often generate a lot more and longer attention than worthier topics like famine in Africa or natural disasters in Asia.
And when it comes to controversy, then yes, SWTOR is definitely leading any list in popularity when it comes to topic of discussion
Yeah, but on the hype meter too, SWTOR has a lot more votes than GW2. I might be preferring GW2 personally, but I'm not under some delusion that even here at mmorpg.com that it's the more anticipated game.
I mean, to be as high as it is with that many votes, SWTOR obviously has a lot more positive votes than GW2 does for hype (It just happens to have more negative votes as well).
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
If you want to be exact, you should consider that there can be various reasons as to why a game section is visited more. As with tv, newspapers, sites, forums and a lot of things in real life, controversy generates a lot of attention and discussion, a good scandal or rumor about a famous star will, how sadly telling it may be of human nature, often generate a lot more and longer attention than worthier topics like famine in Africa or natural disasters in Asia.
And when it comes to controversy, then yes, SWTOR is definitely leading any list in popularity when it comes to topic of discussion
Yeah, but on the hype meter too, SWTOR has a lot more votes than GW2. I might be preferring GW2 personally, but I'm not under some delusion that even here at mmorpg.com that it's the more anticipated game.
I mean, to be as high as it is with that many votes, SWTOR obviously has a lot more positive votes than GW2 does for hype (It just happens to have more negative votes as well).
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
Thems fightin' words! MMO.Maverick, You punch him. You punch him right in the face!
PS: I know rerolling is obviously not forced, but it is encouraged and probably one of the largest driving forces of this game (because face it, when it comes down to it, nothing positively new and gamechanging is being incorporated).
While I agree with your argument that quests can stimulate a solo oriented instead of a community oriented mentality and that too much focus on that can be disruptive of the community, that frankly applies to all MMO's since WoW.
EQ had a group focused leveling process, but every MMORPG since WoW that had questing as its main leveling means also had a solo focused feature introduced with it as its main leveling process.
So what you describe is generally a problem that a lot of oldschool MMO gamers have been complaining about for years. However, despite questing all these themepark MMO's managed to hold on to a lot of their players for months to years, despite the quest focused leveling. And that brings me to the quote: what applies to questing, also applies to innovation or gamechanging features. As I said in another post, different groups of MMO gamers have different preferences, and not all MMO gamers need/want only gamechanging and new features for them to enjoy an MMORPG, as MMO's like LotrO, WoW, now Rift and other MMO's showed over the course of time.
Besides that, I find the crafting/crew skills system combined with how Companions are being used ingame quite different from the usual crafting as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
Now, why did you think I added the terms 'reasonable and sensible' to my statement, especially here on these forums?
Personally, I think the mmorpg.com community could be considered the cesspit of MMORPG oriented forums, the gathering place for all kinds of MMO gamers who've become disgruntled, jaded, disgusted and burnt out with MMORPG's or most MMORPG's that aren't their niche preference: the 4chan for MMO's, figuratively speaking, 'the place where old MMO gamers go to die'.
Well, next to the people who're interested to learn about all kinds of MMORPG's, of course
Originally posted by maskedweasel
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
Thems fightin' words! MMO.Maverick, You punch him. You punch him right in the face!
Naah, he's right. But he's talking about the OTHERS, of course, not us. Never us *insert slightly deranged laughter*
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
so won't ToR be rather heavily instanced? Maybe not to the same sort of extent as GW1, but similar to AoC?
Think they said about 85% of it is open free roaming world that you can share with others.
So that would put it at about 15% intances. Think most of that is flashpoint and areas you talk to npcs and the like.
Here is the offical quote:
Quote: For the average planet, I'd say that 85+% of space is located in open, non phased areas - Bioware
Edit: i expect, and this is just purely speculation. that being the starter worlds are mostly designed to be story driven (sort of like a tutorial/intro to your class) that this will likely be more instances with the instance material dropping off as you get more into the game.
I guess I did not explain that very well. what I meant to say is that ToR will not be a seamless persistant world, but instead be similar to AoC with multiple zones. From my understanding, GW2 will be much more of a seamless persistant world and therefore be more alike the "real" mmo, at least according to modern perception.
i can tell you for a factthe worlds are wide open and non instanced. It is a real world and all its splendor :P
That poll looks like it resembles the idiocracy that is our world. 50% retards, the rest at least have an opinion and don't follow blindly ... sounds about right to me.
I was somewhat excited for SWTOR, until I heard from a friend that worked at Bioware. He said, "Don't even bother". Pretty harsh words, but from the videos and that comment, I am fairly certain the game is going to suck. It will just have a huge fanboi following, like most games do, with no resemblance of common sense.
I honestly have not been very impressed with Bioware games as a whole. Good story and characters, most definitely. But the animations, mechanics and overall gameplay are pretty piss poor. None of the videos look that great to me, and the combat doesn't look very fluid or interesting. Only time will tell, but I don't think the game is doing enough "new" (if anything) to make it a purchase for me at this point.
The non-gamechanging issue was just an aside, I am well aware of the fact that MMO gamers have no thirst for originality. :P
The real concern I have for the game, again, is the amount of potential subscriber-shills that may offset the population/social interactivity of the servers. With so many apathetic players in the mix, I feel like it may be a turn-off for people who want to play this game on a more social/competetive edge, which I honestly think should be the only aspect of MMORPGs.
I've played several MMOs, and never once have I really cared about the story... Because you know what? It's going to end eventually, and I know I'm going to have to make up the rest in the long-run. Players who hope the community pulls through to make end-game interesting may be disappointed when so many players just want to play through the story, and then re-play through the story, ad nauseum...
That poll looks like it resembles the idiocracy that is our world. 50% retards, the rest at least have an opinion and don't follow blindly ... sounds about right to me.
I was somewhat excited for SWTOR, until I heard from a friend that worked at Bioware. He said, "Don't even bother". Pretty harsh words, but from the videos and that comment, I am fairly certain the game is going to suck. It will just have a huge fanboi following, like most games do, with no resemblance of common sense.
I honestly have not been very impressed with Bioware games as a whole. Good story and characters, most definitely. But the animations, mechanics and overall gameplay are pretty piss poor. None of the videos look that great to me, and the combat doesn't look very fluid or interesting. Only time will tell, but I don't think the game is doing enough "new" (if anything) to make it a purchase for me at this point.
That poll looks like it resembles the idiocracy that is our world. 50% retards, the rest at least have an opinion and don't follow blindly ... sounds about right to me.
I was somewhat excited for SWTOR, until I heard from a friend that worked at Bioware. He said, "Don't even bother". Pretty harsh words, but from the videos and that comment, I am fairly certain the game is going to suck. It will just have a huge fanboi following, like most games do, with no resemblance of common sense.
I honestly have not been very impressed with Bioware games as a whole. Good story and characters, most definitely. But the animations, mechanics and overall gameplay are pretty piss poor. None of the videos look that great to me, and the combat doesn't look very fluid or interesting. Only time will tell, but I don't think the game is doing enough "new" (if anything) to make it a purchase for me at this point.
Will be very fair , since basically ING get almost all exclusief SWTOR news .
Thus the hype of SWTOR is a lot bigger there , GW2 has different site like MMORPG where the people are more Fantasy orientated .
If MMORPG would get exclusief news , then the hype on SWTOR will be bigger .
It is all marginal , NCsoft has a beter deal with MMORPG then EA (who still doesn´t understand how audience work aside from mainstream media , that everybody understands)
So offcourse ING majority going to vote for SWTOR .
Every forum is biased , in one way or another totally unbiased forums no longer excists, cause audience do not seek unbiased opnions , but more opnions that fit there general ideas .
That poll looks like it resembles the idiocracy that is our world. 50% retards, the rest at least have an opinion and don't follow blindly ... sounds about right to me.
Ah, always interesting when someone goes so far as insulting anyone who doesn't share his/her taste, as if his taste is somehow a sign for intelligence or some of other form of perceived superiority
Usually and more often it's a sign of a lack of understanding that there can be just differences in tastes and like opinions that there can be more of them that are equally valid.
Originally posted by laikacosmo
The non-gamechanging issue was just an aside, I am well aware of the fact that MMO gamers have no thirst for originality. :P
Heh. Some. Not all
Often it's a mix with different areas of interest for different people.
The real concern I have for the game, again, is the amount of potential subscriber-shills that may offset the population/social interactivity of the servers. With so many apathetic players in the mix, I feel like it may be a turn-off for people who want to play this game on a more social/competetive edge, which I honestly think should be the only aspect of MMORPGs.
Yes, I'm wondering too how the balance will end up to be. However, LotrO was heavily quest oriented but still had a great social community. It often depends on a mix of factors.
I've played several MMOs, and never once have I really cared about the story... Because you know what? It's going to end eventually, and I know I'm going to have to make up the rest in the long-run. Players who hope the community pulls through to make end-game interesting may be disappointed when so many players just want to play through the story, and then re-play through the story, ad nauseum...
Well, it depends per player I think. Personally I think that most MMO gamers prefer a story immersive questing experience above a bland traditional questing experience. And since questing is the main meat of the leveling experience, you better make sure as a dev that it's an interesting and engaging experience.
Whether the group stimulating options BW wanted to build in will actually have the desired result, it's hard to say. Sure, it's great that you can do quests together with your friends and I'm sure people would love to tag along if only to see how the story develops for their friend next to the usual fun of grouping and questing together.
But for a really socially well-knit together community, more features are needed.
The raiding, Warzones, Flashpoints and World Arcs all might be helpful since those are all group-only activities, but me, I hoped to have seen more of an RvR situation a la DAoC or WAR. But how to create a good community is a problem that any MMORPG faces.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
"Why are you going to be outnumbered from the beginning? Because we want to make sure to feel that you are an epic hero throughout the game."
meh. Sounds like a lot of WoW-style hand-holding and rails to follow with the typical themepark gameplay.
"See the cover spots shown in green which means that this will be the first MMORPG that you can use cover while you fire!"
LOL
I would rather use cover in a game that is challenging. During most of the fight scenes during the game play the character is standing around being shot at.
Sorry but as an MMORPG gamer who wants something to play for long-term I do not see myself playing SWTOR more than a week tops (I highly doubt that I will ever purchase it actually . .. depends on if I ever see a fun looking gameplay vid) but GW2 I will most definitely play very casually for years because of the instant and unique PVP.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
so won't ToR be rather heavily instanced? Maybe not to the same sort of extent as GW1, but similar to AoC?
Think they said about 85% of it is open free roaming world that you can share with others.
So that would put it at about 15% intances. Think most of that is flashpoint and areas you talk to npcs and the like.
Here is the offical quote:
Quote: For the average planet, I'd say that 85+% of space is located in open, non phased areas - Bioware
Edit: i expect, and this is just purely speculation. that being the starter worlds are mostly designed to be story driven (sort of like a tutorial/intro to your class) that this will likely be more instances with the instance material dropping off as you get more into the game.
I guess I did not explain that very well. what I meant to say is that ToR will not be a seamless persistant world, but instead be similar to AoC with multiple zones. From my understanding, GW2 will be much more of a seamless persistant world and therefore be more alike the "real" mmo, at least according to modern perception.
i can tell you for a factthe worlds are wide open and non instanced. It is a real world and all its splendor :P
In all the gameplay vids I have seen it appears that you can onnly go one route. Can you verify that there will be an 'open world'?
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Comments
Do you own a copy of their Sonic RPG?
That was pretty much a flop.
MDK2 wasn't exactly gangbusters either, though that's an older game, so maybe not as fair.
Still. I mean, c'mon, Sonic has lots of dedicated fans, look at all the truly crappy Sonic games that still manage to sell somehow. Yet Bioware didn't manage to do some mystical magic that made it a guaranteed best seller.
(... not that I'm suggesting Star Wars is like Sonic... though there are a lot of crappy Star Wars games. Hmmm....)
Link doesn't go to the poll...I hope this isn't left over trash from april fools day. -.-;
Either way, they said WoW was suppose to be so awesome and this huge success yet no matter how many times I went back to give it a chance I(an avid mmoer) just couldn't get into this 'best made mmo evar!11" so I'll take it as comfort that the game(GW2) I'm looking forward to and hoping that delivers is the less popular one.
It's just like in high school and real life, the really really popular people have no souls; likewise with games.
...though I'll still be looking at TOR if for nothing else than my KOTOR III-XVIII (or w/e) like they promised.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Ah common you know that sonic was a cheap DS game u can´t really compare this to high budget games like kotor,da or mass effect.
And please making a rpg out of sonic is impossible thats like making a Street Fighter MMORPG.
Oh, come on. Iirc MDK2 was received pretty well in its days and in some ways even considered an improved upon the first MDK. Although you're right in that it's a bit irrelevant to mention a game of 10+ years ago. Else I might as well mention the awsomeness that the Baldur's Gate saga was.
I think you're contradicting yourself. Look at the hype meter here, and you see that GW2 is the most popular one, also when you look at other sites and polls you'll notice that SWTOR and GW2 both are on the top of most anticipated upcoming MMO's and the most popular, leaving a large gap in expectation and popularity with other MMO's.
So, in your reasoning that'd mean that GW2 is soulless too... see the error in reasoning there?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think the biggest problem to the MMO scheme of SW:ToR is it's whole story pull, TBH... If you think about it, offering "200 hours" of "unique" game play per class is a little much. People seem to be quite excited by this fact, but not many people seem take into account how this will affect end-game population...
Where will the epic end game PvP battles take place, if once you reach the end of your story arc you feel compelled to roll a new character to see what is next on the list. Where will the battle of the Republic and the Empire be held if all of the Knights wanted to roll a smuggler, and the Bounty Hunters felt compelled to visit the Sith? This is an MMORPG that seems to be catering very much to the single-player community, and if a large part of this population is going to focus on just ripping through story after story instead of concentrating on the living world around them, I'm sorry but the community will be extremely weak and mundane, and end game will not be as populated or engaging as other games.
MMORPGs are not designed to focus on story, they should focus on developing a community, and working their way up from there. Perhaps there will be a large number of people subbing, but if the "single-player" community is not separated from the "MMO" community, the servers could be very unstable and that will lead to problems down the road...
/$0.02
Eh, MDK2 was better than MDK, but that's not saying a LOT. It was an okay game. I'm just saying that Bioware game >< Instant success, or critically acclaimed. The whole idea of 'too big to fail' is a bad one. People should like SW:ToR on its own merits (and it has plenty), not just say it'll autosucceed because it's Bioware. The idea of a game succeeding JUST because of the company is... ugh. I don't like that. I accidentally deleted what I was responding to, but that's okay, I'm sure you can remember what you were saying!
Also, I wanted to respond to the part I actually did quote and not delete... I think if you really look carefully at the hype meter, you'll find that while GW2 is higher rated, it also has considerably less ratings than SW:TOR. In fact, if you look at which part of the site gets more hits, you'll see that SW:TOR is visited a lot more than GW2.
Even on this site, GW2 is not the most popular game. (PS, this has nothing to do with me thinking the most popular people are soulless, it just means I'm a stickler for exactness, and don't want people thinking GW2 is wanted by more people than SW:TOR, even on this site.)
While I think you may have a point there if BioWare doesn't deliver on what they say, what they have spoken about in regards to the way questing works aids in the community and is less focused on just "single player" story after "single player" story.
The way your story is setup, you will be traveling to planets, then different areas of planets, then back again throughout your entire storyline. You won't leave your starter planet, never to return.. on the contrary, you will be back, and you'll have reasons to come back thats not only part of your storyline, but for end game content too.
Not to mention you'll be running these missions in an open world.. not in an instance where you don't see other people, and they've said that they'll never force you to reroll a character. The way they designed the game is so that you will always feel like there is something going on.
Im going to play both, so it doesnt matter for me when they launch. SWTOR for the KOTOR rollercoaster experience, but this time together with friends and GW2 for pure awesomeness and hopefully again great PVP.
EDIT: The reason I say both is because GW2 doesnt have a sub. So like I did with Nightfall campain and EotN exp for GW, I also bought those boxes while I was playing a different MMO at that moment.
I understand and applaud Bioware for their thought on having your actions impact the community, as it lends to purpose in the battle. That being said, the "community" I speak of is one of more on a social level. A "single-player" individual will be attacted to this game. He reads these forums and is drooling over the fact that someone keeps repeating the "200 hours of Bioware story" per character. He can chose to take up a spot on one of many servers, but never really interact with the community outside of his questing directly affecting the environment. Obviously, where needed, he may join a group to perform a task or do a flash point that he can't do by himself...but ultimately, within the community, he will be a non-factor.
Like it or not, these people will exist, and they will randomly chose servers in a fashion that no one can counter-balance. There is a reason many people don't like the MMO model of gaming, and believe me, it's not just the lack of non-high fantasy genre (although I'll admit that is one). Bioware attempting to lure these people into this framework will either succeed in converting them, or succeed at getting subs at the risk of server imbalance and community erosion, it doesn't seem like there is much of a middle ground there.
Community is extremely important to a game's survivability. I'd have to say Warhammer Online had probably the best community of any MMO I've ever played, and I honestly think it's due to the fact that there was a competitive nature to it, and you did feel it was necessary to invovle yourself in the social aspect of the game. Granted, the game turned out horrible, but had they been able to fix the glaring mistakes that they so obviously ignored, I think it would have been possible for WAR to be extremely successful... I think SW:ToR has the makings to possibly remake this environment, but their focus on engaging story and lurring non-MMO playing fanboys to their subscription based game is just going to lead to shills and another ho-hum community.
We'll see, however... We'll see...
PS: I know rerolling is obviously not forced, but it is encouraged and probably one of the largest driving forces of this game (because face it, when it comes down to it, nothing positively new and gamechanging is being incorporated).
If you want to be exact, you should consider that there can be various reasons as to why a game section is visited more. As with tv, newspapers, sites, forums and a lot of things in real life, controversy generates a lot of attention and discussion, a good scandal or rumor about a famous star will, how sadly telling it may be of human nature, often generate a lot more and longer attention than worthier topics like famine in Africa or natural disasters in Asia.
And when it comes to controversy, then yes, SWTOR is definitely leading any list in popularity when it comes to topic of discussion
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, but on the hype meter too, SWTOR has a lot more votes than GW2. I might be preferring GW2 personally, but I'm not under some delusion that even here at mmorpg.com that it's the more anticipated game.
I mean, to be as high as it is with that many votes, SWTOR obviously has a lot more positive votes than GW2 does for hype (It just happens to have more negative votes as well).
... and yes, all reasonable people think that Bioware does not equal instant success, but we're talking about mmorpg.com. Can you look me in the eye and say with a straight face that it's all perfectly reasonable people here?
Quoted For Truth.
Thems fightin' words! MMO.Maverick, You punch him. You punch him right in the face!
While I agree with your argument that quests can stimulate a solo oriented instead of a community oriented mentality and that too much focus on that can be disruptive of the community, that frankly applies to all MMO's since WoW.
EQ had a group focused leveling process, but every MMORPG since WoW that had questing as its main leveling means also had a solo focused feature introduced with it as its main leveling process.
So what you describe is generally a problem that a lot of oldschool MMO gamers have been complaining about for years. However, despite questing all these themepark MMO's managed to hold on to a lot of their players for months to years, despite the quest focused leveling. And that brings me to the quote: what applies to questing, also applies to innovation or gamechanging features. As I said in another post, different groups of MMO gamers have different preferences, and not all MMO gamers need/want only gamechanging and new features for them to enjoy an MMORPG, as MMO's like LotrO, WoW, now Rift and other MMO's showed over the course of time.
Besides that, I find the crafting/crew skills system combined with how Companions are being used ingame quite different from the usual crafting as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Now, why did you think I added the terms 'reasonable and sensible' to my statement, especially here on these forums?
Personally, I think the mmorpg.com community could be considered the cesspit of MMORPG oriented forums, the gathering place for all kinds of MMO gamers who've become disgruntled, jaded, disgusted and burnt out with MMORPG's or most MMORPG's that aren't their niche preference: the 4chan for MMO's, figuratively speaking, 'the place where old MMO gamers go to die'.
Well, next to the people who're interested to learn about all kinds of MMORPG's, of course
Naah, he's right. But he's talking about the OTHERS, of course, not us. Never us
*insert slightly deranged laughter*
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am reasonably biased. Does that count?
My brand new bloggity blog.
i can tell you for a factthe worlds are wide open and non instanced. It is a real world and all its splendor :P
That poll looks like it resembles the idiocracy that is our world. 50% retards, the rest at least have an opinion and don't follow blindly ... sounds about right to me.
I was somewhat excited for SWTOR, until I heard from a friend that worked at Bioware. He said, "Don't even bother". Pretty harsh words, but from the videos and that comment, I am fairly certain the game is going to suck. It will just have a huge fanboi following, like most games do, with no resemblance of common sense.
I honestly have not been very impressed with Bioware games as a whole. Good story and characters, most definitely. But the animations, mechanics and overall gameplay are pretty piss poor. None of the videos look that great to me, and the combat doesn't look very fluid or interesting. Only time will tell, but I don't think the game is doing enough "new" (if anything) to make it a purchase for me at this point.
The non-gamechanging issue was just an aside, I am well aware of the fact that MMO gamers have no thirst for originality. :P
The real concern I have for the game, again, is the amount of potential subscriber-shills that may offset the population/social interactivity of the servers. With so many apathetic players in the mix, I feel like it may be a turn-off for people who want to play this game on a more social/competetive edge, which I honestly think should be the only aspect of MMORPGs.
I've played several MMOs, and never once have I really cared about the story... Because you know what? It's going to end eventually, and I know I'm going to have to make up the rest in the long-run. Players who hope the community pulls through to make end-game interesting may be disappointed when so many players just want to play through the story, and then re-play through the story, ad nauseum...
At least, I would... :
Hitting the bottom of the barrel now.
i wonder if said friend goes by EAlouse ;P
Will be very fair , since basically ING get almost all exclusief SWTOR news .
Thus the hype of SWTOR is a lot bigger there , GW2 has different site like MMORPG where the people are more Fantasy orientated .
If MMORPG would get exclusief news , then the hype on SWTOR will be bigger .
It is all marginal , NCsoft has a beter deal with MMORPG then EA (who still doesn´t understand how audience work aside from mainstream media , that everybody understands)
So offcourse ING majority going to vote for SWTOR .
Every forum is biased , in one way or another totally unbiased forums no longer excists, cause audience do not seek unbiased opnions , but more opnions that fit there general ideas .
Ah, always interesting when someone goes so far as insulting anyone who doesn't share his/her taste, as if his taste is somehow a sign for intelligence or some of other form of perceived superiority
Usually and more often it's a sign of a lack of understanding that there can be just differences in tastes and like opinions that there can be more of them that are equally valid.
Well, it depends per player I think. Personally I think that most MMO gamers prefer a story immersive questing experience above a bland traditional questing experience. And since questing is the main meat of the leveling experience, you better make sure as a dev that it's an interesting and engaging experience.
Whether the group stimulating options BW wanted to build in will actually have the desired result, it's hard to say. Sure, it's great that you can do quests together with your friends and I'm sure people would love to tag along if only to see how the story develops for their friend next to the usual fun of grouping and questing together.
But for a really socially well-knit together community, more features are needed.
The raiding, Warzones, Flashpoints and World Arcs all might be helpful since those are all group-only activities, but me, I hoped to have seen more of an RvR situation a la DAoC or WAR. But how to create a good community is a problem that any MMORPG faces.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Both games are aweful compared to Darkfall imo.
SWTOR -
"Why are you going to be outnumbered from the beginning? Because we want to make sure to feel that you are an epic hero throughout the game."
meh. Sounds like a lot of WoW-style hand-holding and rails to follow with the typical themepark gameplay.
"See the cover spots shown in green which means that this will be the first MMORPG that you can use cover while you fire!"
LOL
I would rather use cover in a game that is challenging. During most of the fight scenes during the game play the character is standing around being shot at.
Sorry but as an MMORPG gamer who wants something to play for long-term I do not see myself playing SWTOR more than a week tops (I highly doubt that I will ever purchase it actually . .. depends on if I ever see a fun looking gameplay vid) but GW2 I will most definitely play very casually for years because of the instant and unique PVP.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
In all the gameplay vids I have seen it appears that you can onnly go one route. Can you verify that there will be an 'open world'?
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA