Now, PnP RPGs weren't how I started into multiplayer RPGs, mine was the MUDs like Nightmare and Abandoned Realms (or even NuclearWarUSA or Devil's Silence). What's funny is that they were more or less automated PnP, so the real fun was getting some drama going (real or just RP) because there's nothing more fun to having a legit guild/cabal war that consumed the whole MUD. Even newbies had a stake in such things. Now, MMOs are just neutered MUDs where you can't even get into guild on guild fights. And there's no real loss either, other than time. Plus, wth is with this itemization fetish. Items in MUDs were nice, but most could do without if they knew which abilities or spells did what, and gamed them well. But without items today you can forget even PVE in most MMOs. >_>
Now, PnP RPGs weren't how I started into multiplayer RPGs, mine was the MUDs like Nightmare and Abandoned Realms (or even NuclearWarUSA or Devil's Silence). What's funny is that they were more or less automated PnP, so the real fun was getting some drama going (real or just RP) because there's nothing more fun to having a legit guild/cabal war that consumed the whole MUD. Even newbies had a stake in such things. Now, MMOs are just neutered MUDs where you can't even get into guild on guild fights. And there's no real loss either, other than time. Plus, wth is with this itemization fetish. Items in MUDs were nice, but most could do without if they knew which abilities or spells did what, and gamed them well. But without items today you can forget even PVE in most MMOs. >_>
The problem is, you simply cannot automate PnP games, they require interactivity and freedom to do whatever you want to do and reap the consequences thereof. As soon as you add a computer moderator, you've limited freedom because the computer can't handle anything outside of it's little rule set that it's outfitted with.
In a PnP game, you can do almost anything you want. If I wanted to play a complete pacifist, someone who never engages in combat, I can. In fact, I've done it several times, I've done entire campaigns where no one in the party ever resorted to combat even once. Can you do that in an MMO? Of course not, at least not and get anything from it. MMOs have a reward system that is based on combat. If you have no combat, you effectively get nowhere fast. It's like trying to play Halo without ever touching a firearm. It's a pointless waste of time. There are very, very few games you can play where you're not tied to a combat role.
I don't pretend that MMOs are role-playing games, any more than I pretend Halo is a role-playing game. Neither fit the mold.
You know as i was reading the OP on this thread, he reminded me of something that idk i even realized before. I recently have been guilty of alot of the things you said were wrong with MMO's today...and its not been since SWG that a game had held my attention for more than a month or two and you OP, in your post told me exactly why. In SWG, i dont remember any one specific item i looted, nor do i remember what i did when i first hit my first Master (not lvl cap, but close enough). I didnt do any "end game" content so to speak. SWG had the greatest community tools ever seen in an MMO in my option, because it actually allowed u to do things past just killing, questing, or crafting. You felt like you were living in a different world. MMORPG's, while are my favorite genre of games, are on a scary decent in quality. I really hope this trend changes very soon.
EDIT* - Pre NGE SWG that is...
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2 Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
Why seek role-playing from MMORPGs? Videogame RPGs have never strongly been about role-playing.
I dunno...a few years back I learned to seek entertainment where it was most efficiently found:
When I want real PVP, I play RTS/FPS games.
When I want role-playing, I play tabletop RPGs.
When I want a fun progression game, I play videogame RPGs (including MMORPGs.)
It's just not smart to look for certain types of fun where it doesn't exist, unless you're fine with the watered down version (role-playing in WOW, for example; it happens pretty frequently on RP servers, and near-constantly if you join the right guilds.)
I don't necessarily agree with the top part but the green highlighted part I do, the communities people are seeking are out there just go and find them. I put this is google "the old timers guild" and bang got a cross game guild for mature players, you can do this for alsorts of playstyles but people seem to want to whinge about the lack of gaming that suits them rather than put effort into finding a community that thinks and acts like themselves and OH! the irony, are not old MMO's all about, EFFORT? Its out there folks just go find it, but you may have to make some concessions along the way but isn't that just the reality of life?
Also I'm playing Forsaken World and I'm in a guild where I'm the old timer (in age rather than MMO experience) most of the guys and gals are early 20's in age and they are putting together RP events, grouping up, shooting the breeze, telling jokes, helping each other out crafting and such and are the most polite and happy bunch of "younger gamers" you could meet. I still feel abit too old around them but thats my problem they are just getting on and playing the game how they want and you lot of whingers could learn from TODAYS MMO PLAYER, irony again?
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yup, you are right. I don't understand you. I never played tabletop RPG or whatever cause no one did it during my time and I think it's for geeks ^_^
I like reading about the lore but there is no way in hell I am ever roleplaying. That's too geeky for me and it's wierd. WoW has its RP servers and when I tried it to see what it is, it was wierd and I don't think it was fun ^_^ I don't rush to end-game (actually I like levelling up much more than running dungeons/raids) but I don't roleplay or engage in trading or whatever because it is boooooooring
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You know as i was reading the OP on this thread, he reminded me of something that idk i even realized before. I recently have been guilty of alot of the things you said were wrong with MMO's today...and its not been since SWG that a game had held my attention for more than a month or two and you OP, in your post told me exactly why. In SWG, i dont remember any one specific item i looted, nor do i remember what i did when i first hit my first Master (not lvl cap, but close enough). I didnt do any "end game" content so to speak. SWG had the greatest community tools ever seen in an MMO in my option, because it actually allowed u to do things past just killing, questing, or crafting. You felt like you were living in a different world. MMORPG's, while are my favorite genre of games, are on a scary decent in quality. I really hope this trend changes very soon.
EDIT* - Pre NGE SWG that is...
.. SWG was great for those reasons.. adding levels was just the beginning of the end though.. but yeah.. how many times would people just setup a ranger camp so they could socialise.. SWG's biggest.. perhaps greatest aspect was the social side of the game, medical centers, cantina's starports, they were crowded, always somebody doing something.. and then there was the player created cities.. which also were the games best pvp features.. imp cities, reb cities.. TEF definitely made a difference i think .. and Jedi visibility..
Don't get me wrong guys. I am by no means an elitist. And as far as role playing goes i am not actually a hard core role player. My style of role playing is very unique. If i am in a role playing mood i guarantee i will crack you up in a group. I don't actually create my life and agendas in an MMO while rping , I merely like to joke around and have fun messing with people. I guess I just miss the days like one reply stated where I could actually get to know the entire community simply by monitoring and responding to world chat. Ryzom is a good example of this. And SWG Pre-NGE was awesome. Funny how you can imediatly tell how good a new game is by the community. If a game has a great community then everyone must be pretty happy cause happy people make a good community. If everyone is pissed off because of lame gameplay and features the chat community is gonna reflect it. Mainly i miss social activities. Try this: Greet a random stranger in a new game by using a macro or saying something like "greetings adventurer, how are you doing on this fine day?" And I guarantee most people will prob want to cuss you out or call you a weirdo or a pervert simply for talking to someone you don't know. (I have had it happen to me on more than one occasion)
I don't play like that much anymore for fear of bein ridiculed but I must say even though i still play most mainstream MMO's I certainly used to have a hell of a lot more fun than I do nowdays. I just pray that I will never lose my imagination and succumb to the harsh reality that is real life lest it drive me mad!
I don't know about "todays" MMO player. I know about myself. I've played since the first days of UO. I feel like i've seen it all. I'm not playing any MMOG atm. TOO many of the same type game....
Comments
Now, PnP RPGs weren't how I started into multiplayer RPGs, mine was the MUDs like Nightmare and Abandoned Realms (or even NuclearWarUSA or Devil's Silence). What's funny is that they were more or less automated PnP, so the real fun was getting some drama going (real or just RP) because there's nothing more fun to having a legit guild/cabal war that consumed the whole MUD. Even newbies had a stake in such things. Now, MMOs are just neutered MUDs where you can't even get into guild on guild fights. And there's no real loss either, other than time. Plus, wth is with this itemization fetish. Items in MUDs were nice, but most could do without if they knew which abilities or spells did what, and gamed them well. But without items today you can forget even PVE in most MMOs. >_>
The problem is, you simply cannot automate PnP games, they require interactivity and freedom to do whatever you want to do and reap the consequences thereof. As soon as you add a computer moderator, you've limited freedom because the computer can't handle anything outside of it's little rule set that it's outfitted with.
In a PnP game, you can do almost anything you want. If I wanted to play a complete pacifist, someone who never engages in combat, I can. In fact, I've done it several times, I've done entire campaigns where no one in the party ever resorted to combat even once. Can you do that in an MMO? Of course not, at least not and get anything from it. MMOs have a reward system that is based on combat. If you have no combat, you effectively get nowhere fast. It's like trying to play Halo without ever touching a firearm. It's a pointless waste of time. There are very, very few games you can play where you're not tied to a combat role.
I don't pretend that MMOs are role-playing games, any more than I pretend Halo is a role-playing game. Neither fit the mold.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
You know as i was reading the OP on this thread, he reminded me of something that idk i even realized before. I recently have been guilty of alot of the things you said were wrong with MMO's today...and its not been since SWG that a game had held my attention for more than a month or two and you OP, in your post told me exactly why. In SWG, i dont remember any one specific item i looted, nor do i remember what i did when i first hit my first Master (not lvl cap, but close enough). I didnt do any "end game" content so to speak. SWG had the greatest community tools ever seen in an MMO in my option, because it actually allowed u to do things past just killing, questing, or crafting. You felt like you were living in a different world. MMORPG's, while are my favorite genre of games, are on a scary decent in quality. I really hope this trend changes very soon.
EDIT* - Pre NGE SWG that is...
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2
Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
I don't necessarily agree with the top part but the green highlighted part I do, the communities people are seeking are out there just go and find them. I put this is google "the old timers guild" and bang got a cross game guild for mature players, you can do this for alsorts of playstyles but people seem to want to whinge about the lack of gaming that suits them rather than put effort into finding a community that thinks and acts like themselves and OH! the irony, are not old MMO's all about, EFFORT? Its out there folks just go find it, but you may have to make some concessions along the way but isn't that just the reality of life?
Also I'm playing Forsaken World and I'm in a guild where I'm the old timer (in age rather than MMO experience) most of the guys and gals are early 20's in age and they are putting together RP events, grouping up, shooting the breeze, telling jokes, helping each other out crafting and such and are the most polite and happy bunch of "younger gamers" you could meet. I still feel abit too old around them but thats my problem they are just getting on and playing the game how they want and you lot of whingers could learn from TODAYS MMO PLAYER, irony again?
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yup, you are right. I don't understand you. I never played tabletop RPG or whatever cause no one did it during my time and I think it's for geeks ^_^
I like reading about the lore but there is no way in hell I am ever roleplaying. That's too geeky for me and it's wierd. WoW has its RP servers and when I tried it to see what it is, it was wierd and I don't think it was fun ^_^ I don't rush to end-game (actually I like levelling up much more than running dungeons/raids) but I don't roleplay or engage in trading or whatever because it is boooooooring
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
.. SWG was great for those reasons.. adding levels was just the beginning of the end though.. but yeah.. how many times would people just setup a ranger camp so they could socialise.. SWG's biggest.. perhaps greatest aspect was the social side of the game, medical centers, cantina's starports, they were crowded, always somebody doing something.. and then there was the player created cities.. which also were the games best pvp features.. imp cities, reb cities.. TEF definitely made a difference i think .. and Jedi visibility..
Don't get me wrong guys. I am by no means an elitist. And as far as role playing goes i am not actually a hard core role player. My style of role playing is very unique. If i am in a role playing mood i guarantee i will crack you up in a group. I don't actually create my life and agendas in an MMO while rping , I merely like to joke around and have fun messing with people. I guess I just miss the days like one reply stated where I could actually get to know the entire community simply by monitoring and responding to world chat. Ryzom is a good example of this. And SWG Pre-NGE was awesome. Funny how you can imediatly tell how good a new game is by the community. If a game has a great community then everyone must be pretty happy cause happy people make a good community. If everyone is pissed off because of lame gameplay and features the chat community is gonna reflect it. Mainly i miss social activities. Try this: Greet a random stranger in a new game by using a macro or saying something like "greetings adventurer, how are you doing on this fine day?" And I guarantee most people will prob want to cuss you out or call you a weirdo or a pervert simply for talking to someone you don't know. (I have had it happen to me on more than one occasion)
I don't play like that much anymore for fear of bein ridiculed but I must say even though i still play most mainstream MMO's I certainly used to have a hell of a lot more fun than I do nowdays. I just pray that I will never lose my imagination and succumb to the harsh reality that is real life lest it drive me mad!
I don't know about "todays" MMO player. I know about myself. I've played since the first days of UO. I feel like i've seen it all. I'm not playing any MMOG atm. TOO many of the same type game....