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Alchemist vs Engineer
Shroom_Mage
Member UncommonPosts: 863
Okay, so we pretty much all expect one of the remaining professions to be Mesmer, but what about the last? The two most popular I've seen are Engineer and Alchemist. Both fit into the Guild Wars lore fairly well, and would be suited to each of the races fairly well. (I've seen some people say that Engineer wouldn't suit all races, but Sylvari are curious enough to use machines, and Norn would respect a machine that could kick ass.)
What could each really bring to the table? What weapons could they use? We've had countless threads discussing the "evidence" or "hints" we've discovered or been given favoring one or the other, but the point of this thread is to discuss the more specific abilities of each. This also isn't another "What class is next?" thread. This one is strictly about the Engineer against the Alchemist, and specifically about what each could do, gameplaywise.
To start, weapons. What could they each use? These are my guesses.
Engineer
Two-Handed: Hammer, Rifle
One-Handed: Mace, Pistol
Off-Hand: Pistol?, Shield?
Alchemist
Two-Handed: Rifle
One-Handed: Pistol, Dagger
Off-Hand: Torch, Dagger, Pistol?
It was a lot easier to think of weapons for the Engineer than for the Alchemist. Thinking of off-hand weapons for either of them was difficult. Either would be able to use both guns, but for pistols, could they use them in the off-hand? It's hard to say. If they can use them in either hand, they could also dual wield them. Is this something reserved for the Thief? Should anyone who can use pistols be able to dual wield them? Melee weapons weren't hard for Engineer, but the only off-hand item I could really think of was shield. I could see it happening, but it could be a little odd. Torch seemed like a natural fit for Alchemist, but I couldn't really think of any close range weapons other than daggers, which is making this profession look more scholar than adventurer, which isn't exactly possible.
Next is skills. Both of them have some easy options for utility skills. Engineer could deploy turrets, and both could throw grenades. Alchemist could have a variety of support-oriented skills, many in the form of grenade-like potions that either target an enemy or the ground. Engineer could likely create a variety of environmental weapons that he or his allies could use.
Weapon skills are a little trickier. Alchemist could have various alchemical shots for their guns, and maybe coat their melee weapons in something as well. Either profession could have explosive shots for the rifle, giving it perhaps an AoE feel, something that isn't present in the Warrior's use of the weapon. I'm at a loss as to what most of the Engineer's weapon skills would be. I can't think of anything meaningful that wouldn't look like a nerfed Warrior's skillset or simply not make use of the weapon itself. The Engineer isn't a magical class, so giving it unexpected options like Symbol of Wrath on the Guardian's mace would be a little strange. On the other hand, it's just as easy to say that he produces these effects using technology, but how far can that technology really go? Would dropping a landmine really make sense for a hammer skill?
There would be a lot more to these professions than I could come up with, so it's a good thing it's ArenaNet's job to do that and not mine. Utility skills could be greatly varied on either, but weapon skills become difficult on the Engineer. Coming up with a varied list of weapons for Alchemist is also difficult.
What does everyone else think? Is one of these classes more viable than the other from a gameplay standpoint? Might one be too limited in what it can do? Would one simply be more fun to play?
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Comments
What about the mechanic? Warriors have adrenaline, burst skills and banners, Necros have death shroud and minions, Thieves have initiative, stealth, shadowstep and dual-weapon skills. Without a class mechanic they are just people using weapons. What sets them apart from the rest of the professions.
Oh, there's that, too. I don't know why I hadn't considered that.
If the Engineer had constructions that worked at all like they do in TF2 then they could probably be its mechanic. Otherwise, I don't know.
The Alchemist... Maybe it can store special potions up and use them in combat. Like a mini crafting discipline built into the class, but they'd go into special potions slots above the skill bar. It couldn't really require resources, though. That wouldn't exactly be fair.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Neither. Both are far too limited in scope when it comes to one area of damage/control/support.
So combine the two ideas, plus the concept of the chiurgeon (as mentioned in both books) to create something versatile and can fulfill all three roles.
Sapper
Weapons:
2H: Rifle, Hammer
mH: Pistol, Mace,
oH: Pistol, torch, Dagger
Prof Mechainc:
Active: Chanel to place an environmental weapon. Placement is different for each weapon. Sappers depend on an additional resource to place EW's; placing an EW consumes scrap. Sappers can scavenge for more scrap.
Passive: Increases the number of skills on pick-up of environmental weapons.
Sappers are skilled in the use of their environment to create obstacles for enemies and support allies through the creation of strategic barricades and weapons.
Pistol and rifle skills would be the direct damage skills. Hammer skills would focus on knocks and could create temporary earthen barricades. Mace skills could repair already placed EW's. Torch and dagger skills would include support elements, like cauterize.
Secondary skills could be along the lines of of traps, poison potions, smoke screens, bombs.
sapper , pioner or combat engienier same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper
A Sapper class seems that it would mostly sit back and help the group out with it's engineering capabilities. That would make it slightly difficult to solo with it, and GW2 claims that all classes would be able to solo.
Not a bad idea for the class, it just should have more soloable skills I think.
You know... I think we may have already seen this profession in action...
Anyone remember Kranxx for the Ghosts of Ascalon book?
He used a flash bomb in one scene of the book, and a healing potion in another, and other various devices. Similarly, there's Snaff in Edge of Destiny who also uses (albeit to a lesser extent) devices--but Snaff could also be a mesmer due to him ability to temporarily confine a dragon's mind.
As we have seen with the EoD novel, ALL of the characters who had names matched to a profession in retrospect--Magnus and Caithe both turned out to be thieves. Similarly in GoA, Dougal also turned out to be a thief; the only named character left without an explicit profession is Kranxx...
So thats it... we know what all of the professions do (at least according to my mind), we just don't have a name to go with it.
Edit: Never mind, we know the name!
Ghosts of Ascalon, page 12: "'Tactician Kranxx, of the Vigil,' said the asura, quickly introducing himself with a small bow"
So thats all the professions known... Elementalist, Warrior, Ranger, Necromancer, Guardian, Thief, Mesmer, and Tactician.
If you are actually thinking that the third adventurer may be Alchemist or Engineer, then you haven't seen the profession I had in mind:
The Baldrick.
Can throw dead animals and shoots nuclear farts.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
No one else used the devices that I can remember ATM, but one norn warrior picked up Kranxx's lighting fork, but was scolded immediately. I do remember one other scene where Kranxx asked one of the other characters to remove a device from Kranxx's satchel; I don't remember what happened after that though, I will have to go back and re-read GoA. There was also one instance where a character drank one of Kranxx's potions--whether it was an energy potion or a healing potion remains to be seen.
Kranxx was throwing potions and what not in GoA, blinding ones, explosions, healing. He also had that lightning rod thing which I think is the device mentioned above. So that could be?
Edit: Fixed some typos, it's too early xD
Interesting. Wasn't there mention before of one of the professions having specialized abilities with environmental weapons as well? A Tactician sounds like someone who could do that.
Anti-heroes ftw.
I would totally play that.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I'd like to see Enginer class that could ride a mechs/battlesuits (or whatever You name it). He would be capable of using Rifles, Pistols, Hammers, Maces and maybe Daggers, however, restricted from using second set of weapons. Instead of wapons sets, he could switch to his mech. His battlesuit could be upgradable for gold. Newer parts for his mech would be available simultaneously as he level up. With two kind of mechs:
-first oriented in melee combat with abilities for Support
-second oriented in ranged attack with high Damage
Enginer on foot could be more oriented in Control.
That would give him diversity in combat.
Unfortunately... Proffesion like this would destroy uniqueness of Asura race. So, maybe it's a bad idea.
Magnificent. I think you have got it. It has the sound of the other class names, even. Gives them a certain style, but vague enough that characters can be what you want them to be. I totally missed that in the books, but it makes perfect sense. It reads just the same way they say other classes. Of course, it could be some asura rank and not a class at all.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Obviously you would put all your stat points into Cunning ...
The wiki lists it as a rank in the Vigil, but there is no source linked to say that it is confirmed as rank and not a profession, so it could go either way.
Balders!! (It doesn't show but he has a cunning plan.)
I have to go with Engineer as the final profession simply because it sounds like it would be a lot more exciting and interesting than Alchemist. And really, assuming Mesmer takes the last scholar spot, what's left is adventurer. Does Alchemist sound like an adventurous profession, or one that brings to mind old men with white beards, hunched over a dusty books in a dimly lit rooms, surrounded by an odd and frightening assortment of beakers, bottles, tubes and squirmy things in jars. It just sounds very scholarly to me. Now an Engineer --- *that* sounds like a (literal) blast and a natural profession for the adventurous.
Of course, it could mean that there is no Mesmer and the final two are both Engineer and Alchemist, in which case, I'll be forced to throw myself off a tall bridge.