The more I learn about this game the less interested I get.
No dedicated healers, we can all heal which means everyone will be soloing rather than grouping
Only consentual PvP which means no open world FFA PvP
LoL based characters which means strictly class based with a handful of abilities. Which is good for LoL because sessions last maximum of 1h and then your character is reset but for a persistant MMORPG?
No. This game wont be revolutionary in any way, it will just be another themepark with some new features like Dynamic Quests which most likely will turn out to be something like rifts in Rift.
So whats left for us looking for something new and exciting? TERA and ArcheAge?
Which both are asian themed MMORPGs which means alot of disgustingly cuteness everywhere.
*sigh*
You never were interested in GW2.. you're not fooling anyone. And you use GW2 threads only to bash the game, so if you don't like it, you can move along.
Regarding action based games.. both TERA and GW2 are obviously action oriented. Using only FPS elements (recticle, twitch) to consider a game as action based is.. well, stupid. Every game that uses real time actions to affect the combat is imo an action game. Besides, why does everything have to be black or white is beyond me..
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
The more I learn about this game the less interested I get.
No dedicated healers, we can all heal which means everyone will be soloing rather than grouping
Only consentual PvP which means no open world FFA PvP
LoL based characters which means strictly class based with a handful of abilities. Which is good for LoL because sessions last maximum of 1h and then your character is reset but for a persistant MMORPG?
No. This game wont be revolutionary in any way, it will just be another themepark with some new features like Dynamic Quests which most likely will turn out to be something like rifts in Rift.
So whats left for us looking for something new and exciting? TERA and ArcheAge?
Which both are asian themed MMORPGs which means alot of disgustingly cuteness everywhere.
*sigh*
Lol Yamota, you're a cynic and because of that the only time I'd ever listen to your opinion is when you've actually tried the game, like when you tried Rift and gave your opinion on it. The thing that irks me about your posts is they seem to just look at the surface of a subject and declare it fail or win depending on whether you like it or not but hey, these things are subjective so carry on.
Your conclusions in those 3 bulletpoints you listed are wrong in each case, if you spend a little more time getting familiar with ArenaNets design choices your interest should either return, or you'll at least be sure this isn't the game you're looking for.
The blog on the official site has several articles where they go into more detail about specific game design choices and their implications, if you actually want to know.
LoL as in League of Legends (DOTA), not "lol". Maybe a little "lol", too.
After playing around with the GW2 character creator, it became painfully obvious to me how similar GW2's system is to LoL, and how little it has in common with GW1:
- Same stats for classes, character traits, traditional stuff like crit chance etc.
- Some mechanics even ripped straight from LoL, like "X while passive, Y while active" abilites.
I played GW1, LoL, and WoW, and I'm afraid I'm starting to see where Anet is going with this. Quite frankly, I don't think this mix is going to work and it's not going to make experienced players happy. LoL without match progression is shallow. GW1 with limited customization is shallow. Mix it and PvP will be a shallow LoL with shallow customization. And PvE gameplay would play like... well, like playing LoL against AI mobs. Sounds exciting? For the first time, I'm getting a little concerned again -.-
As one of the few and proud gamers who cannot stand LoL I must say I find this revelation terrifying. Maybe I was right about GW2 all along and wrong about being wrong about GW2...
Why do you seem to be hanging on people's unplayed opinions of the game? If you want to know more about the game then go read about the game on the website or the blog and THEN make your mind if you like the ideas or not.
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
I apologize, but I didn't want to dissect your post so I just responded with the same amount of ignorance. If you look at every game like that, theres no point in making a normal conversation. It's been debated to death, why and how is GW2 different in comparison to other games, so when you say something like that, you're bound to get flamed at.
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
I apologize, but I didn't want to dissect your post so I just responded with the same amount of ignorance. If you look at every game like that, theres no point in making a normal conversation. It's been debated to death, why and how is GW2 different in comparison to other games, so when you say something like that, you're bound to get flamed at.
And the second part wasn't aimed at you.
Well seeing as the game is not released or in open beta any discussion about the game will be conjecture. Or do you honestly believe that the devs will give you the actual truth without putting some marketing spin on it?
I try to look past the devs BS and see what is actually being said and from what I read. The PvP will only be consentual (either in designated zones or instanced BGs), the devs have admitted they are fans of LoL and their character build does look strikingly similar tot he characters in that game and they have said there will be no dedicated healers in the game but rather all classes will be able to combat heal (atleast) themselves.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
I don't know about that man, they have a whole persistent area built around consensual FFA pvp but you know, until we play the game is when we will truly know how much of an afterthought it is. As of of right now though, it doesn't look that way to me.
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
I apologize, but I didn't want to dissect your post so I just responded with the same amount of ignorance. If you look at every game like that, theres no point in making a normal conversation. It's been debated to death, why and how is GW2 different in comparison to other games, so when you say something like that, you're bound to get flamed at.
And the second part wasn't aimed at you.
Well seeing as the game is not released or in open beta any discussion about the game will be conjecture. Or do you honestly believe that the devs will give you the actual truth without putting some marketing spin on it?
I try to look past the devs BS and see what is actually being said and from what I read. The PvP will only be consentual (either in designated zones or instanced BGs), the devs have admitted they are fans of LoL and their character build does look strikingly similar tot he characters in that game and they have said there will be no dedicated healers in the game but rather all classes will be able to combat heal (atleast) themselves.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
Hang on, aren't you banging on about how unfair non consensual open world pvp is in the EVE CSM thread?
Originally posted by Yamota
"Hm yeah, it always bugged me that a boxing match is 1v1 or a soccer match is 11v11. It would be much more fun if it was 5v1 and 3v11. NOT"
Originally posted by Yamota
"PvP = Player vc Player. Nowhere in there does it suggest that it has to be an uneven fight to be PvP.
And history? Man, this is a game, get over yourself.
More fitting would be to compare PvP to other sports like UFC or soccer. These gank/grief type PvP is a sub-genre of PvP and a very small one might I add as there are lots and lots of more people engaging in fair PvP than gank type PvP."
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
I apologize, but I didn't want to dissect your post so I just responded with the same amount of ignorance. If you look at every game like that, theres no point in making a normal conversation. It's been debated to death, why and how is GW2 different in comparison to other games, so when you say something like that, you're bound to get flamed at.
And the second part wasn't aimed at you.
Well seeing as the game is not released or in open beta any discussion about the game will be conjecture. Or do you honestly believe that the devs will give you the actual truth without putting some marketing spin on it?
I try to look past the devs BS and see what is actually being said and from what I read. The PvP will only be consentual (either in designated zones or instanced BGs), the devs have admitted they are fans of LoL and their character build does look strikingly similar tot he characters in that game and they have said there will be no dedicated healers in the game but rather all classes will be able to combat heal (atleast) themselves.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
Hang on, aren't you banging on about how unfair non consensual open world pvp is in the EVE CSM thread?
Originally posted by Yamota
"Hm yeah, it always bugged me that a boxing match is 1v1 or a soccer match is 11v11. It would be much more fun if it was 5v1 and 3v11. NOT"
Originally posted by Yamota
"PvP = Player vc Player. Nowhere in there does it suggest that it has to be an uneven fight to be PvP.
And history? Man, this is a game, get over yourself.
More fitting would be to compare PvP to other sports like UFC or soccer. These gank/grief type PvP is a sub-genre of PvP and a very small one might I add as there are lots and lots of more people engaging in fair PvP than gank type PvP."
Yes, and that is why I said consentual PvP is NOT all that bad. Cant you read?
My concern is rather that when games are made with only consentual PvP it will be a side attraction rather than the main game. Where for example in WAR the PvP was the main game and PvE the secondary game. I hope Guild Wars 2 will be similar, and not yet another PvE themepark bleh.
For sure I would not GW 2 to become another grief/gank fest like Eve.
Well seeing as the game is not released or in open beta any discussion about the game will be conjecture. Or do you honestly believe that the devs will give you the actual truth without putting some marketing spin on it?
I try to look past the devs BS and see what is actually being said and from what I read. The PvP will only be consentual (either in designated zones or instanced BGs), the devs have admitted they are fans of LoL and their character build does look strikingly similar tot he characters in that game and they have said there will be no dedicated healers in the game but rather all classes will be able to combat heal (atleast) themselves.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
You're not off the mark with the features of the game, you're off with the conclusions you drew from them. You might have overlooked that the devs don't just spew out feature lists, they also give very in-depth explanations on how they got to those designs, and if you have a shred of MMO experience, as you say you do, you should be able to draw your own conclusions and find they overlap very much with their ideas.
Self-heal promoting soloing - not with this combat design, and not in this heavily cooperative environment
PvP an afterthought - not likely with ArenaNets legacy of highly competitive, structurized PVP
The last point about class design is written so ambiguously I'm not sure what your criticism actually is, but it indicates you haven't really informed yourself about how abilities work in GW2.
I feel the OP failed to understand that Anet DOESN't WANT to remake GW1 but better. They stated more then once that GW2 was going to be a new kind of experience for all MMO players. Old and/or new. After reading all the customizable stuff on the official site, I think we'll be nicely served.
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
Hang on, aren't you banging on about how unfair non consensual open world pvp is in the EVE CSM thread?
Originally posted by Yamota
"Hm yeah, it always bugged me that a boxing match is 1v1 or a soccer match is 11v11. It would be much more fun if it was 5v1 and 3v11. NOT"
Originally posted by Yamota
"PvP = Player vc Player. Nowhere in there does it suggest that it has to be an uneven fight to be PvP.
And history? Man, this is a game, get over yourself.
More fitting would be to compare PvP to other sports like UFC or soccer. These gank/grief type PvP is a sub-genre of PvP and a very small one might I add as there are lots and lots of more people engaging in fair PvP than gank type PvP."
Yes, and that is why I said consentual PvP is NOT all that bad. Cant you read?
My concern is rather that when games are made with only consentual PvP it will be a side attraction rather than the main game. Where for example in WAR the PvP was the main game and PvE the secondary game. I hope Guild Wars 2 will be similar, and not yet another PvE themepark bleh.
For sure I would not GW 2 to become another grief/gank fest like Eve.
I'm reading in this thread that you want open, non consensual pvp in a game, but don't want ganks or griefing. Good luck with that one.
Whilst in the other you are just bitching about uneven numbers and extolling the merits of consensual pvp.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
So wait.... LoL is a bad game? I play HoN anyway, liked LoL but HoN is better
I think the whole passive/ direct skill (if you use it) is awesome. I dont know if the OP knows that the first 5 skills are determined by your weapon and that you can switch weapons during combat!!!
Lets grow up people. The only thing new games can do today is adopt ideas from old games and refine them. Innovation has run its course with the exception of Dynamic Events. These days innovation can only reach out in hardware such as kinect, move , and wiimote.
Refining ideas from old games is a good thing. Like in CoD where everyone likes to see that XP number come up when you kill someone. That feature is in every shooter now! So what if they copied it. Would you play the game if it didnt have it? A dumb question but you think twice about it; we all have shallow minds and are prone to conformity. That is why it has taken this long to get away from the conventional MMO.
Hang on, aren't you banging on about how unfair non consensual open world pvp is in the EVE CSM thread?
Originally posted by Yamota
"Hm yeah, it always bugged me that a boxing match is 1v1 or a soccer match is 11v11. It would be much more fun if it was 5v1 and 3v11. NOT"
Originally posted by Yamota
"PvP = Player vc Player. Nowhere in there does it suggest that it has to be an uneven fight to be PvP.
And history? Man, this is a game, get over yourself.
More fitting would be to compare PvP to other sports like UFC or soccer. These gank/grief type PvP is a sub-genre of PvP and a very small one might I add as there are lots and lots of more people engaging in fair PvP than gank type PvP."
Yes, and that is why I said consentual PvP is NOT all that bad. Cant you read?
My concern is rather that when games are made with only consentual PvP it will be a side attraction rather than the main game. Where for example in WAR the PvP was the main game and PvE the secondary game. I hope Guild Wars 2 will be similar, and not yet another PvE themepark bleh.
For sure I would not GW 2 to become another grief/gank fest like Eve.
I'm reading in this thread that you want open, non consensual pvp in a game, but don't want ganks or griefing. Good luck with that one.
Whilst in the other you are just bitching about uneven numbers and extolling the merits of consensual pvp.
No, you are confusing non-consentual PvP with griefing/ganking and "fair" PvP with consentual PvP.
Obviously where you have one you can have the other but they are not the same thing. Lineage 2 had non-consentual PvP but ganking was heaviliy penalized to avoid griefing.
Eves PvP system is not the only one in existance you know (even if you seem to think so). It is just that Eve devs dont give a damn about griefing and ganking so they are not taking any stops to prevent it.
No, you are confusing non-consentual PvP with griefing/ganking and "fair" PvP with consentual PvP.
Obviously where you have one you can have the other but they are not the same thing. Lineage 2 had non-consentual PvP but ganking was heaviliy penalized to avoid griefing.
Eves PvP system is not the only one in existance you know (even if you seem to think so). It is just that Eve devs dont give a damn about griefing and ganking so they are not taking any stops to prevent it.
Non consensual pvp necessitates that one or more of the participants hasn't actually elected to pvp at that specific time, he or she has simply been attacked whether they like it or not.
That in itself points to open world pvp, which in itself means there will be ganking.
If you have an RvR lake you may get ganked but it is still consensual. If you have a pvp 'switch' to change your status you may well still get ganked, but it is consensual.
But to advocate non consensual pvp systems and then bemoan 'ganks' it pretty odd.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
No, you are confusing non-consentual PvP with griefing/ganking and "fair" PvP with consentual PvP.
Obviously where you have one you can have the other but they are not the same thing. Lineage 2 had non-consentual PvP but ganking was heaviliy penalized to avoid griefing.
Eves PvP system is not the only one in existance you know (even if you seem to think so). It is just that Eve devs dont give a damn about griefing and ganking so they are not taking any stops to prevent it.
Non consensual pvp necessitates that one or more of the participants hasn't actually elected to pvp at that specific time, he or she has simply been attacked whether they like it or not.
That in itself points to open world pvp, which in itself means there will be ganking.
If you have an RvR lake you may get ganked but it is still consensual. If you have a pvp 'switch' to change your status you may well still get ganked, but it is consensual.
But to advocate non consensual pvp systems and then bemoan 'ganks' it pretty odd.
No, I dont think it is odd. Like I said, Lineage 2 had non consentual PvP but with consequences and WAR and AoC PvP server had it as well but the consequences for dying was virtually nil and there were lots of other PvP options so ganking was quite rare (atleast in WAR).
It all depends on what kind of model you build. Eve has very high death penalty so to mitigate the risk of dying, players generally gank so to not risk losing their ship and there is no penalty for doing so. So in essence Eve has a system that encourages ganking where as other games discourages it.
To be honest I am more against griefing than ganking but in any case it is possible to build a system where ganking is discouraged. Even if it is in a non consentual environment.
Oh yes, FFA certainly wouldn't turn GW2's dynamic content into a total & somewhat unplayerble gankfest (¬_¬).
/sarcasm
What really annoys me is that people define teamwork by having that 1 class that can do that 1 thing and only that, rather have teamwork defined as people actually working together. You know... like a team. I mean, if GW2 is so solo friendly then why did the most survivable class in the game (so far) get roflstomped in this video. Also I wouldn't call having 25+ skills at your disposal being a handful of skills. Oh well, no matter what you just can't please everyone.
*sigh*
In GW2 I don't know if it will be there. Will people really work together or will they just work alongside each other? If everyone heals then I don't need to talk to anyone or group with anyone if I want healing. If everyone has some form of control then I don't need others for that either. If I can't take out 10 mobs on my own I just wait for someone, I don't care who, to come along and take 5 of them while I take the other 5. No need to group with that person, no need to talk etc.
Snip'd...
Despite my normally low opinion of people in general, I think players will cooperate, without ever needing to type or chat a single word. If a Firewall appears on the battlefield, I think it's redundant for the caster to have to verbally communicate that information to the rest of his/her allies. The blazing wall of fire should be indication enough. And will ranged attackers gather behind it for the free damage buff? Yes. How much more is needed for that to be considered cooperation?
The only trick to it is that players need to be on the ball to benefit from much of what their allies are doing. They can't just assume that they'll be auto-buffed. They'll need to be responsible for themselves to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to them. That means moving behind an Elementalist's Firewall, or into a Ranger's Healing Spring, or behind a Guardian's ward. Cooperation in GW2 doesn't look like it will be passive. Like many other things, it will be very active and will depend greatly on the skill and awareness of the individual player.
Of course, that's for open-world events. Five-man dungeons are reported to be much more difficult content and will require more traditional group dynamics. But even though discussing a strategy beforehand will likely be rewarding (such as two Guardians creating an AoE killzone using wards to funnel), I'm guessing that much of the actual combat will still consist of knowing what your buddies are doing through in-play visual queues and reacting to it quickly.
A picture is worth a thousand words and talking is overrated. Most people do way too much of it already. ^ Case in point ^
The more I learn about this game the less interested I get.
No dedicated healers, we can all heal which means everyone will be soloing rather than grouping
Only consentual PvP which means no open world FFA PvP
LoL based characters which means strictly class based with a handful of abilities. Which is good for LoL because sessions last maximum of 1h and then your character is reset but for a persistant MMORPG?
1. There's a lot of things you can't do for yourself. I'll start with something so simple, so obvious, that you may be a little shocked when you think about it. You can heal yourself, but you can't rez yourself. Yeah. Great reason to at least go with ONE other friend. (There's reasons to go with more than a single friend, but I gave a really good reason to at least not solo.)
2. 'strue. We'll just have to see how well WvW scratches that particular need in PvP players. We just don't have enough details yet, and nobody has played it except for Arenanet employees, sooooo...
3. Let's just go with one of the most straightforward, simplest classes. A warrior has about 22 different abilities (Not including rolling, which probably should count, but whatever) they can use in the midst of combat. They have over 80,000 possible choices of skills just including the last 5 skills they have. They can choose between about 25 utility skills, 6 heals, and an unknown amount of elite skills. They can pick between several weapons, having 462 possible weapon combinations, which leads them to over a whopping 37 MILLION possible choices, just selecting the skills that show up on the 1-10 hotkeys.
This is ignoring the effect of traits and equipment.
Just... how many abilities does a class need before it doesn't count as 'handful of abilities'? Especially considering Arenanet has proven themselves pretty good at creating a fairly wide variety of skill types already.
The more I learn about this game the less interested I get.
No dedicated healers, we can all heal which means everyone will be soloing rather than grouping
Only consentual PvP which means no open world FFA PvP
LoL based characters which means strictly class based with a handful of abilities. Which is good for LoL because sessions last maximum of 1h and then your character is reset but for a persistant MMORPG?
1. There's a lot of things you can't do for yourself. I'll start with something so simple, so obvious, that you may be a little shocked when you think about it. You can heal yourself, but you can't rez yourself. Yeah. Great reason to at least go with ONE other friend. (There's reasons to go with more than a single friend, but I gave a really good reason to at least not solo.)
2. 'strue. We'll just have to see how well WvW scratches that particular need in PvP players. We just don't have enough details yet, and nobody has played it except for Arenanet employees, sooooo...
3. Let's just go with one of the most straightforward, simplest classes. A warrior has about 22 different abilities (Not including rolling, which probably should count, but whatever) they can use in the midst of combat. They have over 80,000 possible choices of skills just including the last 5 skills they have. They can choose between about 25 utility skills, 6 heals, and an unknown amount of elite skills. They can pick between several weapons, having 462 possible weapon combinations, which leads them to over a whopping 37 MILLION possible choices, just selecting the skills that show up on the 1-10 hotkeys.
This is ignoring the effect of traits and equipment.
Just... how many abilities does a class need before it doesn't count as 'handful of abilities'? Especially considering Arenanet has proven themselves pretty good at creating a fairly wide variety of skill types already.
I agree with everything you say Meowhead, just want to point out that you CAN actually rez yourself... provided you kill something while in your downed state. Not the easiest/most efficient way to get rezzed but it is possible. Completely different story if you get killed far away from mobs or they run away after knocking you down though.
I agree with everything you say Meowhead, just want to point out that you CAN actually rez yourself... provided you kill something while in your downed state. Not the easiest/most efficient way to get rezzed but it is possible. Completely different story if you get killed far away from mobs or they run away after knocking you down though.
I stand corrected! For some reason that had slipped my mind. You're right, you can rez yourself, but only under limited circumstances, like very close fights. That's usually better for a big fight where you can pick off somebody along the edges who is distracted with somebody else.
LoL as in League of Legends (DOTA), not "lol". Maybe a little "lol", too.
After playing around with the GW2 character creator, it became painfully obvious to me how similar GW2's system is to LoL, and how little it has in common with GW1:
- Same stats for classes, character traits, traditional stuff like crit chance etc.
- Some mechanics even ripped straight from LoL, like "X while passive, Y while active" abilites.
I played GW1, LoL, and WoW, and I'm afraid I'm starting to see where Anet is going with this. Quite frankly, I don't think this mix is going to work and it's not going to make experienced players happy. LoL without match progression is shallow. GW1 with limited customization is shallow. Mix it and PvP will be a shallow LoL with shallow customization. And PvE gameplay would play like... well, like playing LoL against AI mobs. Sounds exciting? For the first time, I'm getting a little concerned again -.-
Geez, after reading this, maybe I should just stay with RIFT
Geez, after reading this, maybe I should just stay with RIFT
Yes, but playing RIFT has been shown to lead to male pattern baldness.
(That was a blatant falsehood, but hey! If you're going to be dissuaded from playing a game from incomplete/inaccurate summations of gameplay, then does it really matter how absurd it seems?)
.... seriously, he wasn't even right, but I guess if you want to be easily swayed by incorrect information, that's your own prerogative. Hopefully you'll at least give the game a chance and see for yourself what's what.
SWEET!!! I love GW2 even more now! I've always thought that a LoL pvp style game mixed with an open world would kick some major ass! It would be super hard to do but from what you've said GW2's done it! Thanks for the good news!!!
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
I also picked up on the similarities, and thought of it as an entirely good thing. LoL is extremely intense and fun unlike your standard traditional MMO combat. What's the problem?
Comments
You dont know a damn thing about what I was interested in or not, like I need to fool anyone about me being interested in anything. Get over yourself.
And what has action based got to do with anything I said? I did not even mention it.
My gaming blog
Lol Yamota, you're a cynic and because of that the only time I'd ever listen to your opinion is when you've actually tried the game, like when you tried Rift and gave your opinion on it. The thing that irks me about your posts is they seem to just look at the surface of a subject and declare it fail or win depending on whether you like it or not but hey, these things are subjective so carry on.
This is not a game.
Your conclusions in those 3 bulletpoints you listed are wrong in each case, if you spend a little more time getting familiar with ArenaNets design choices your interest should either return, or you'll at least be sure this isn't the game you're looking for.
The blog on the official site has several articles where they go into more detail about specific game design choices and their implications, if you actually want to know.
Why do you seem to be hanging on people's unplayed opinions of the game? If you want to know more about the game then go read about the game on the website or the blog and THEN make your mind if you like the ideas or not.
www.guildwars2.com/en/
www.arena.net/blog/
This is not a game.
I apologize, but I didn't want to dissect your post so I just responded with the same amount of ignorance. If you look at every game like that, theres no point in making a normal conversation. It's been debated to death, why and how is GW2 different in comparison to other games, so when you say something like that, you're bound to get flamed at.
And the second part wasn't aimed at you.
Eat me!
LoL? really?
I'm sure if u zoom in max....gw2 = CoD
where u got 5 gun er...skill
and u dodge imcoming projectile while taking on BO er....big dragon....on the battlefield.
U can use medic er....rez on ur buddy to get them back into action.
Well seeing as the game is not released or in open beta any discussion about the game will be conjecture. Or do you honestly believe that the devs will give you the actual truth without putting some marketing spin on it?
I try to look past the devs BS and see what is actually being said and from what I read. The PvP will only be consentual (either in designated zones or instanced BGs), the devs have admitted they are fans of LoL and their character build does look strikingly similar tot he characters in that game and they have said there will be no dedicated healers in the game but rather all classes will be able to combat heal (atleast) themselves.
So I dont see, based on available info, I am so terribly of mark. Now consentual PvP is not all that bad but in my experience when PvP is done like that, it is often an afterthought and not the main game.
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I don't know about that man, they have a whole persistent area built around consensual FFA pvp but you know, until we play the game is when we will truly know how much of an afterthought it is. As of of right now though, it doesn't look that way to me.
This is not a game.
Hang on, aren't you banging on about how unfair non consensual open world pvp is in the EVE CSM thread?
Originally posted by Yamota
"Hm yeah, it always bugged me that a boxing match is 1v1 or a soccer match is 11v11. It would be much more fun if it was 5v1 and 3v11. NOT"
Originally posted by Yamota
"PvP = Player vc Player. Nowhere in there does it suggest that it has to be an uneven fight to be PvP.
And history? Man, this is a game, get over yourself.
More fitting would be to compare PvP to other sports like UFC or soccer. These gank/grief type PvP is a sub-genre of PvP and a very small one might I add as there are lots and lots of more people engaging in fair PvP than gank type PvP."
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yes, and that is why I said consentual PvP is NOT all that bad. Cant you read?
My concern is rather that when games are made with only consentual PvP it will be a side attraction rather than the main game. Where for example in WAR the PvP was the main game and PvE the secondary game. I hope Guild Wars 2 will be similar, and not yet another PvE themepark bleh.
For sure I would not GW 2 to become another grief/gank fest like Eve.
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You're not off the mark with the features of the game, you're off with the conclusions you drew from them. You might have overlooked that the devs don't just spew out feature lists, they also give very in-depth explanations on how they got to those designs, and if you have a shred of MMO experience, as you say you do, you should be able to draw your own conclusions and find they overlap very much with their ideas.
Self-heal promoting soloing - not with this combat design, and not in this heavily cooperative environment
PvP an afterthought - not likely with ArenaNets legacy of highly competitive, structurized PVP
The last point about class design is written so ambiguously I'm not sure what your criticism actually is, but it indicates you haven't really informed yourself about how abilities work in GW2.
I feel the OP failed to understand that Anet DOESN't WANT to remake GW1 but better. They stated more then once that GW2 was going to be a new kind of experience for all MMO players. Old and/or new. After reading all the customizable stuff on the official site, I think we'll be nicely served.
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"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
I'm reading in this thread that you want open, non consensual pvp in a game, but don't want ganks or griefing. Good luck with that one.
Whilst in the other you are just bitching about uneven numbers and extolling the merits of consensual pvp.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
So wait.... LoL is a bad game? I play HoN anyway, liked LoL but HoN is better
I think the whole passive/ direct skill (if you use it) is awesome. I dont know if the OP knows that the first 5 skills are determined by your weapon and that you can switch weapons during combat!!!
Lets grow up people. The only thing new games can do today is adopt ideas from old games and refine them. Innovation has run its course with the exception of Dynamic Events. These days innovation can only reach out in hardware such as kinect, move , and wiimote.
Refining ideas from old games is a good thing. Like in CoD where everyone likes to see that XP number come up when you kill someone. That feature is in every shooter now! So what if they copied it. Would you play the game if it didnt have it? A dumb question but you think twice about it; we all have shallow minds and are prone to conformity. That is why it has taken this long to get away from the conventional MMO.
-I am here to perform logic
No, you are confusing non-consentual PvP with griefing/ganking and "fair" PvP with consentual PvP.
Obviously where you have one you can have the other but they are not the same thing. Lineage 2 had non-consentual PvP but ganking was heaviliy penalized to avoid griefing.
Eves PvP system is not the only one in existance you know (even if you seem to think so). It is just that Eve devs dont give a damn about griefing and ganking so they are not taking any stops to prevent it.
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Non consensual pvp necessitates that one or more of the participants hasn't actually elected to pvp at that specific time, he or she has simply been attacked whether they like it or not.
That in itself points to open world pvp, which in itself means there will be ganking.
If you have an RvR lake you may get ganked but it is still consensual. If you have a pvp 'switch' to change your status you may well still get ganked, but it is consensual.
But to advocate non consensual pvp systems and then bemoan 'ganks' it pretty odd.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
No, I dont think it is odd. Like I said, Lineage 2 had non consentual PvP but with consequences and WAR and AoC PvP server had it as well but the consequences for dying was virtually nil and there were lots of other PvP options so ganking was quite rare (atleast in WAR).
It all depends on what kind of model you build. Eve has very high death penalty so to mitigate the risk of dying, players generally gank so to not risk losing their ship and there is no penalty for doing so. So in essence Eve has a system that encourages ganking where as other games discourages it.
To be honest I am more against griefing than ganking but in any case it is possible to build a system where ganking is discouraged. Even if it is in a non consentual environment.
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Snip'd...
Despite my normally low opinion of people in general, I think players will cooperate, without ever needing to type or chat a single word. If a Firewall appears on the battlefield, I think it's redundant for the caster to have to verbally communicate that information to the rest of his/her allies. The blazing wall of fire should be indication enough. And will ranged attackers gather behind it for the free damage buff? Yes. How much more is needed for that to be considered cooperation?
The only trick to it is that players need to be on the ball to benefit from much of what their allies are doing. They can't just assume that they'll be auto-buffed. They'll need to be responsible for themselves to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to them. That means moving behind an Elementalist's Firewall, or into a Ranger's Healing Spring, or behind a Guardian's ward. Cooperation in GW2 doesn't look like it will be passive. Like many other things, it will be very active and will depend greatly on the skill and awareness of the individual player.
Of course, that's for open-world events. Five-man dungeons are reported to be much more difficult content and will require more traditional group dynamics. But even though discussing a strategy beforehand will likely be rewarding (such as two Guardians creating an AoE killzone using wards to funnel), I'm guessing that much of the actual combat will still consist of knowing what your buddies are doing through in-play visual queues and reacting to it quickly.
A picture is worth a thousand words and talking is overrated. Most people do way too much of it already. ^ Case in point ^
1. There's a lot of things you can't do for yourself. I'll start with something so simple, so obvious, that you may be a little shocked when you think about it. You can heal yourself, but you can't rez yourself. Yeah. Great reason to at least go with ONE other friend. (There's reasons to go with more than a single friend, but I gave a really good reason to at least not solo.)
2. 'strue. We'll just have to see how well WvW scratches that particular need in PvP players. We just don't have enough details yet, and nobody has played it except for Arenanet employees, sooooo...
3. Let's just go with one of the most straightforward, simplest classes. A warrior has about 22 different abilities (Not including rolling, which probably should count, but whatever) they can use in the midst of combat. They have over 80,000 possible choices of skills just including the last 5 skills they have. They can choose between about 25 utility skills, 6 heals, and an unknown amount of elite skills. They can pick between several weapons, having 462 possible weapon combinations, which leads them to over a whopping 37 MILLION possible choices, just selecting the skills that show up on the 1-10 hotkeys.
This is ignoring the effect of traits and equipment.
Just... how many abilities does a class need before it doesn't count as 'handful of abilities'? Especially considering Arenanet has proven themselves pretty good at creating a fairly wide variety of skill types already.
I agree with everything you say Meowhead, just want to point out that you CAN actually rez yourself... provided you kill something while in your downed state. Not the easiest/most efficient way to get rezzed but it is possible. Completely different story if you get killed far away from mobs or they run away after knocking you down though.
I stand corrected! For some reason that had slipped my mind. You're right, you can rez yourself, but only under limited circumstances, like very close fights.
That's usually better for a big fight where you can pick off somebody along the edges who is distracted with somebody else.
Geez, after reading this, maybe I should just stay with RIFT
Yes, but playing RIFT has been shown to lead to male pattern baldness.
(That was a blatant falsehood, but hey! If you're going to be dissuaded from playing a game from incomplete/inaccurate summations of gameplay, then does it really matter how absurd it seems?)
.... seriously, he wasn't even right, but I guess if you want to be easily swayed by incorrect information, that's your own prerogative. Hopefully you'll at least give the game a chance and see for yourself what's what.
SWEET!!! I love GW2 even more now! I've always thought that a LoL pvp style game mixed with an open world would kick some major ass! It would be super hard to do but from what you've said GW2's done it! Thanks for the good news!!!
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
I also picked up on the similarities, and thought of it as an entirely good thing. LoL is extremely intense and fun unlike your standard traditional MMO combat. What's the problem?