Okay if they dont need to talk to the scouts then the dynamic events happen anyways? What I mean is, if I do talk to him and he tells me some Shrine is under attack, it would have been under attack regardless right?
So why not have these guys just repeat the message "Onro Shrine to the east is under attack". "Can someone go help!?" or something.
People casually walking by will see this being yelled in their chatbox and get the idea of where to go and what to do. Yes, the text will repeat until the event ends, but they could mix up what he says, and the time in between saying it.
Anyways, just a thought from someone that isn't real clear on how scouts affect the starting of an event
You are correct; the shrine is under attack whether or not you talk to anyone. While there ARE events in the world that can be triggered by talking to an NPC (not a scout), the majority of them carry on without player initiation, or are started due to time of day, or season, or some other factor.
What you suggest might be a way of going about it, as I don't know exactly what options ANet tried in their iterations of the scout NPC idea (you should probably suggest it via one of ANet's means of contact), but judging from what they said in last year's GDC presentation on Dynamic Events, some people just didn't "get" that they could act to affect the progression of events without NPCs with things over their heads and an explicit direction to go to. I'm not sure a chat box would be enough for those folks, but what do I know?
Meowhead and arenasb, I too wish it ANet didn't find it necessary to put in the scouts and the "New Event Nearby" text and hope I can turn it off in the UI. I was a bit disappointed to find that this was in the game when I saw the first footage last year, and would kind of love ANet to stick it to people who don't grasp the whole "you don't have to talk to anyone!!" idea - especially since it seems to serve as fuel to people who see NPCs with doohickeys over their heads and think "aha! Quest! ANet isn't doing anything differently after all!"
But, I want the game to be welcoming, too? So, oh well.
I also don't like the scout system, even though I see the reason for it being there. Maybe if they made the scouts only for the startin areas it would be ok just to give those that need it a feel for whats what. Then again maybe ANET will have the option to turn it off. Not knowing where and what all the dynamic events are adds to the exploration of the game and will allow for events to go further into the "if we fail to rescue or save" scenarios. The featurre doesn't comcern me in the least. If given the choice I will just turn it off and take pleasure in figuring the game out myself and just play.
First i will say i do agree on their philosophy for doing the quests.These are actually just quests triggering each other.They cal lit a story i call it a questline,really no different,the difference is how they are going to do it.
Instead of specualating,just read what A-Net says they are doing,they are trying to eliminate reading text from a NPC and then doing some killing that lies about the "WHY" you are doing the killing.
A-net is trying to convey a realistic quest system,they are using NPC's to deliver the text/messages,example guards scouts whatever are going to ask for help.They have openly admitted that nobody wants to read text from a NPC with a marker over his head ...I AGREE.
Problems with this system??Don't even go there trying to say there is no problems,don't need any fanbois telling how everything is perfect..ok got that out of the way.First i am just specualating,becuase that is all anyone can do at this point.
1 What happens for players that are offline and miss out on the events?
2 There can be only so many events coded into the game,so what happens for new players that maybe lag behind the crowd or join the game a couple weeks later?Do they run out?
3 Are they going to have some sort of timer to delay triggering every event in the first two weeks of the game?How long could they delay it,i mean players wait months or does it basically finish up fast ,game over?
I "think" i see what they are trying to do,they are basically delivering a pile of single player games,each one can deliver a different storyline.I am not so sure this is a good system, i am sure the player base will determine that,and of course to each their own,everyone is not the same in their wants,needs from a game.
Also since the OP did say to watch the videos,and i DID do that,open them in full screen,watch the hotbar ...spamming button 111/2/3...1111/2/3.It happens over and over,never changes,doesn't look like very good combat.However to be fair[we want to be fair correct?] it "might" have been a clueless tester that didn't want to venture outside of pressing 3 buttons[everytime].I HOPE combat is better than what those two videos showed for combat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For the poster above me. No the content doesn't just run out, they will eventually reset and the events will play out again, though they can end differently and lead to completely unique outcomes to that you had experienced when you first played through the game, meaning that you can play through on an alt and have a completely unique experience to that you just had. Also the combat , the starter area and beginning few levels only allow for 2-3 skills to be used (or it could be all 5 weapon skills I'm not 100 percent sure and if thats the case the tester was just a noob) also the healing skill.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
First i will say i do agree on their philosophy for doing the quests.These are actually just quests triggering each other.They cal lit a story i call it a questline,really no different,the difference is how they are going to do it.
Instead of specualating,just read what A-Net says they are doing,they are trying to eliminate reading text from a NPC and then doing some killing that lies about the "WHY" you are doing the killing.
A-net is trying to convey a realistic quest system,they are using NPC's to deliver the text/messages,example guards scouts whatever are going to ask for help.They have openly admitted that nobody wants to read text from a NPC with a marker over his head ...I AGREE.
Problems with this system??Don't even go there trying to say there is no problems,don't need any fanbois telling how everything is perfect..ok got that out of the way.First i am just specualating,becuase that is all anyone can do at this point.
1 What happens for players that are offline and miss out on the events?
2 There can be only so many events coded into the game,so what happens for new players that maybe lag behind the crowd or join the game a couple weeks later?Do they run out?
3 Are they going to have some sort of timer to delay triggering every event in the first two weeks of the game?How long could they delay it,i mean players wait months or does it basically finish up fast ,game over?
I "think" i see what they are trying to do,they are basically delivering a pile of single player games,each one can deliver a different storyline.I am not so sure this is a good system, i am sure the player base will determine that,and of course to each their own,everyone is not the same in their wants,needs from a game.
Also since the OP did say to watch the videos,and i DID do that,open them in full screen,watch the hotbar ...spamming button 111/2/3...1111/2/3.It happens over and over,never changes,doesn't look like very good combat.However to be fair[we want to be fair correct?] it "might" have been a clueless tester that didn't want to venture outside of pressing 3 buttons[everytime].I HOPE combat is better than what those two videos showed for combat.
Concerning your concerns:
1. Events cycle
2. Events cycle
3. Events cycle
How did you figure they are basically delivering a pile of single player games? Dynamic Events are a very group-orientated aspect of the game. Even though there is no formal grouping, there is still natural grouping. All aspects of GW2 are group-oriented with the exception of the personal storyline.
Yes, there is a lot of skill bar spamming but there is also a lot of standing still while Anet said movement, positioning, dodging etc are very important. These are people who never played before playing the demo so you can't base anything on that.
Edit: @Stydus I'm not sure if Anet itself called GW2 'seamless' or only 'persistent'. I thought they only said persistent. However, it's true that from what we've seen GW2 will not be seamless.
I would like to see the following in the options menu:
-toggle mouseover outlines on/off -disable overhead map quest icons -show/hide quest tracker -disable text alerts for events -a slider scale for the skill bar
that would clear the screen up a lot for me. too much text happening on the monitor. too much highlighting on mouseovers. the bottom bar needs to be about half the size. get rid of that quest tracker on the right. and i'll be a happy gamer.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
Have they said seamless? Can you provide a source for that because I've never heard it. They have said persistent a bunch because that is what is as opposed to GW1 which wasn't. But I don't ever remember them saying it would be seamless.
I never said they shouldn't have added scouts and reminders. All I'm saying is that they make the gameplay look "pretty questy".
What's your frame of reference? "Pretty questy" compared to ... what?
Compared to a game which prides itself on having done away with all questing.
Look, it's necessary to eeeeease folks off the breadcrumb trails that they are so dependent upon right now. You can't just throw them into a world without signposts and expect them to know what to do and where to go next when they've spent years being conditioned to getting explicit instructions from questgivers, along with complimentary arrows pointing to where they need to go next. ArenaNet tried that during their earliest tests and they had players ignoring events that were happening right in front of them because no one told them they were supposed to be involved. Scouts bridge that gap.
Another thing that they discovered that after a while, players started skipping the scouts and just going right into events once they learned that they no longer needed 'permission' from an NPC to get involved.
Using the scouts to get get tips will always be optional. And it should also be mentioned that scouts don't 'give quests', they simply point to areas of the maps that are hotspots of event activity. I'm guesing that it's possible that even when the player arrives at a designated location, the event may be dormant, so it's not something they can completely rely on to hold their hand while they level. And if there is an event active, the player still needs to decide whether they want to participate or not, and exactly what their participation entails. A pretty elegant solution, I would say.
As for traditional quests vs. dynamic events, the personal storyline (which apparently encompasses the tutorials for each race) appears to be mainly quest-based while everything that takes place in the open world is dynamic.
NPCs with doohickeys over their heads are for personal story. Has to be someway to let players know they may continue their personal story if they wish.
First i will say i do agree on their philosophy for doing the quests.These are actually just quests triggering each other.They cal lit a story i call it a questline,really no different,the difference is how they are going to do it.
Instead of specualating,just read what A-Net says they are doing,they are trying to eliminate reading text from a NPC and then doing some killing that lies about the "WHY" you are doing the killing.
A-net is trying to convey a realistic quest system,they are using NPC's to deliver the text/messages,example guards scouts whatever are going to ask for help.They have openly admitted that nobody wants to read text from a NPC with a marker over his head ...I AGREE.
Problems with this system??Don't even go there trying to say there is no problems,don't need any fanbois telling how everything is perfect..ok got that out of the way.First i am just specualating,becuase that is all anyone can do at this point.
1 What happens for players that are offline and miss out on the events?
2 There can be only so many events coded into the game,so what happens for new players that maybe lag behind the crowd or join the game a couple weeks later?Do they run out?
3 Are they going to have some sort of timer to delay triggering every event in the first two weeks of the game?How long could they delay it,i mean players wait months or does it basically finish up fast ,game over?
I "think" i see what they are trying to do,they are basically delivering a pile of single player games,each one can deliver a different storyline.I am not so sure this is a good system, i am sure the player base will determine that,and of course to each their own,everyone is not the same in their wants,needs from a game.
Also since the OP did say to watch the videos,and i DID do that,open them in full screen,watch the hotbar ...spamming button 111/2/3...1111/2/3.It happens over and over,never changes,doesn't look like very good combat.However to be fair[we want to be fair correct?] it "might" have been a clueless tester that didn't want to venture outside of pressing 3 buttons[everytime].I HOPE combat is better than what those two videos showed for combat.
THEY AREN'T QUESTS!!!! Traditional quests are one and done. You do them once and that is it. The events will cycle, some will restart on a timer, some will be triggered by players, some will be triggered by other events, etc.
I do agree with you on the button spamming however. I think its complete bullshit how they only give you 3 skills from the start. I really hate it when in the beginning of the game I'm stuck spamming my only skill(s) over and over again.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
Have they said seamless? Can you provide a source for that because I've never heard it. They have said persistent a bunch because that is what is as opposed to GW1 which wasn't. But I don't ever remember them saying it would be seamless.
This is from that Eurogamer article posted awhile back
"The word ArenaNet's staff keep returning to when discussing the game is "seamless", and it's not hard to see why. It's equivalent to what Naughty Dog achieved for the action-adventure with Uncharted 2, but on a far grander logistical scale. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO where you almost can't see the joins."
I remember reading this and getting excited, but I think they either don't know precisely what the word means or its due to its alpha stage, but I for some reason doubt this.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
Have they said seamless? Can you provide a source for that because I've never heard it. They have said persistent a bunch because that is what is as opposed to GW1 which wasn't. But I don't ever remember them saying it would be seamless.
This is from that Eurogamer article posted awhile back
"The word ArenaNet's staff keep returning to when discussing the game is "seamless", and it's not hard to see why. It's equivalent to what Naughty Dog achieved for the action-adventure with Uncharted 2, but on a far grander logistical scale. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO where you almost can't see the joins."
I remember reading this and getting excited, but I think they either don't know precisely what the word means or its due to its alpha stage, but I for some reason doubt this.
Will Guild Wars 2 be an MMO?
Yes. Guild Wars 2 provides a massive, online persistent world.
"Playing it, Guild Wars 2 doesn't seem as radical as you might think, or as ArenaNet and its owner NCsoft might suggest. The biggest step the series makes in this sequel is to move from a largely instanced game with social hubs to a full-scale persistent world, with all players on a server sharing the same adventuring maps."
They weren't talking about the world when they said seamless, they were talking about how all the features and systems work together.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
Have they said seamless? Can you provide a source for that because I've never heard it. They have said persistent a bunch because that is what is as opposed to GW1 which wasn't. But I don't ever remember them saying it would be seamless.
This is from that Eurogamer article posted awhile back
"The word ArenaNet's staff keep returning to when discussing the game is "seamless", and it's not hard to see why. It's equivalent to what Naughty Dog achieved for the action-adventure with Uncharted 2, but on a far grander logistical scale. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO where you almost can't see the joins."
I remember reading this and getting excited, but I think they either don't know precisely what the word means or its due to its alpha stage, but I for some reason doubt this.
From that quote it's easy to see that seamless in that article means something entirely different from what we were discussing but you're right, they did mention it.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Jump to conclusions much? I never said they shouldn't have added scouts and reminders. All I'm saying is that they make the gameplay look "pretty questy".
Nope, I do not! And if you look I said that post was meant sarcastically. OH and here is a quote from a different thread, after you responded to me.
Originally posted by DarkPony having dynamic quests but still going with loads of handholding and guidance by scouts and ui reminders.
Is this where I say “Jump to misinformed conclusion much”? LOL
I know you are a Star Wars fan, if I went on there and said that TOR is a trinity based game where they turned Jedi into Clerics from EW and WoW. You would respond and tell me the context that makes what I said misinformed, that TOR is a soft trinity. That 3 classes can play as healers and that even when you play a Jedi as a healer you are going to have to do more than just be a heal bot. Do you see how the context changes the whole dynamic of what is said, and in fact makes TOR look a lot different than the first statement I said at the start of this!
So where is the context here? If you would do it for one game why would you not do it for another? If someone that knows nothing about GW2 reads your statement are they going to get an accurate representation of the game, or is it going to give them a misguided view of the game? So maybe what I said sarcastically was not jumping to conclusion after all, unless you want to actually start giving the actual facts about the game.
Now if you would have said, I understand why ANet added the Scout System and the UI reminders to help people learn how to play the game, but my personal opinion is that it feels like to much handholding. See context, it makes a world of difference and it lets people ask question instead of leading them to false conclusions.
That is all for now folks, tune in next week and we discuss more of how context is important.
Originally posted by Wizardry
1 What happens for players that are offline and miss out on the events?
2 There can be only so many events coded into the game,so what happens for new players that maybe lag behind the crowd or join the game a couple weeks later?Do they run out?
3 Are they going to have some sort of timer to delay triggering every event in the first two weeks of the game?How long could they delay it,i mean players wait months or does it basically finish up fast ,game over?
1. Then they get to see other events when they are online, when events continually chain off of each other I don’t really see how this is a problem. Oh no I missed an event, well then maybe on my alt I will get to see the event, it is not the end of the world here.
2. No they do not run out! Tell me how this makes any rational sense! OK lets Barney style this, when you kill of the leader of the Mafia does that make the mafias of the world go away forever? When you kill the general of an enemy army, does that make the whole army disappear? The answer for both is NO, it case you are wondering. So here is a brilliant thought, why can’t ANet make it so an event would trigger, after you kill the bandit leader or centaur general, that would make a new leader come to power. Starting the struggle for the zone all over again, oh my god that almost seems logical and like a world. How can this be, whoever would of thought to make events trigger off other events? That is just too logical after all we all know what cause and effect is, but applying that to a game is beyond belief.
3. I am just going to answer this by saying look at the answer for your second question. I would also recommend watching the PAX west event panel (watch all 10 videos) where the fans get to design an event; it might help you understand how events actually work. That information kind of helps so you do not come to some weird conclusion like this question.
Originally posted by Foomerang
I would like to see the following in the options menu:
-toggle mouseover outlines on/off
-disable overhead map quest icons
-show/hide quest tracker
-disable text alerts for events
-a slider scale for the skill bar
that would clear the screen up a lot for me. too much text happening on the monitor. too much highlighting on mouseovers. the bottom bar needs to be about half the size. get rid of that quest tracker on the right. and i'll be a happy gamer.
I hope these options are in for UI customization too, although I do not know why ANet would not let you change the UI that has been a feature of MMOs for a long time. Also ANet listens to their fans, they just added support for 7 heros in a group because some of their fans wanted it for GW. So I do not see them saying No you cannot have these options, if the fans request it.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Yup. Those large loading portals aren't exactly seamless :<
Another thing to consider is that they spoke of the world offering totally different content depending on your personal single player story / class with other dynamic events, and:
That could mean a certain amount of phasing of the world itself. *shivers*
I really hope they will restrict phasing to dungeon bits rather than public zones or at least restrict it to certain stages of your personal story if it has to be public zones. I hated phasing in AoC.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Yup. Those large loading portals aren't exactly seamless :<
Another thing to consider is that they spoke of the world offering totally different content depending on your personal single player story / class with other dynamic events, and:
That could mean a certain amount of phasing of the world itself. *shivers*
I really hope they will restrict phasing to dungeon bits rather than public zones or at least restrict it to certain stages of your personal story. I hated phasing in AoC.
He says a completely different personal story. He doesn't mention dynamic events in that context.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Yup. Those large loading portals aren't exactly seamless :<
Another thing to consider is that they spoke of the world offering totally different content depending on your personal single player story / class with other dynamic events, and:
That could mean a certain amount of phasing of the world itself. *shivers*
I really hope they will restrict phasing to dungeon bits rather than public zones or at least restrict it to certain stages of your personal story. I hated phasing in AoC.
He says a completely different personal story. He doesn't mention dynamic events in that context.
He does mention them, romanator0. But I guess it is open for multiple interpretations. Like I said, I hope it doesn't mean phasing of the open world.
"... when you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience a completely unique, different personal story if you want. When you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience completely different dynamic events as a result of that as well, as you go through maps you have gone through already you gonna have different content going on"
I guess the key bit is "maps". Could mean dungeon / personal instance maps / open world maps. I don't know.
only phasing that occurs, occurs in your home instance (which is a lab for some race section of a city for another etc.)Hence the name home instance.
what they mean by "If you go through maps you have gone through already you have different content going on" is related to some misunderstanding.
First time you wander an area you visit a small village buy some potions etc, then wander off. Later with an alt or with the same character you revisit only to find that its razed down by centaurs.
Or you come to a place where some workers are working on a bridge and ask for your protection. You wander off and find that bridge destroyed later. Some time later you see that bridge repaired and working. Its dynamic.
only phasing that occurs, occurs in your home instance (which is a lab for some race section of a city for another etc.)Hence the name home instance.
what they mean by "If you go through maps you have gone through already you have different content going on" is related to some misunderstanding.
First time you wander an area you visit a small village buy some potions etc, then wander off. Later with an alt or with the same character you revisit only to find that its razed down by centaurs.
Or you come to a place where some workers are working on a bridge and ask for your protection. You wander off and find that bridge destroyed later. Some time later you see that bridge repaired and working. Its dynamic.
ps. hilarious signiture darkpony. gz
Thanks for the compliment
Still in this bit I quoted they are speaking about "maps" offering different content specifically related to class / personal story.
But phasing only occuring in your home instance like you say is very good to hear. Do you have a link to that?
p.s. I know that the gameworld itself is dynamic with loads of public dynamic events going on though.
Only concern i have at the moment is related to this Q&A:
Will a player who doesn't participate much in a dynamic event get all of the rewards?
Johanson said that it only works if you actively participate. You can't just shoot one bullet and sit back. "It's pretty intelligent AI," he said. You can earn bronze, silver and gold participation, which affects your rewards.
Will actions I take in the dynamic events system affect or interact with my personal story?
Affect, no. Interact with, yes. Sometimes, your personal story is taken from the same point of plot. The centaurs are attacking human lands, for example. There may be events to drive off the centaurs from Nebo Terrace, or to attack the centaur camp and kill a leader in their army. Separately, there may be a storyline that follows the path of a lost soldier, tracking him through said centaur camp to find clues as to his whereabouts. Those are interlinked, but they do not directly affect each other. Our intention with this is to make the world real and to show that the things happening all over the world are not isolated or self-contained incidents; they affect everyone in the area, both in large and small-scale ways.
Mechanically, a personal story will never change the outcome of an event. The storylines are personal, individual acts of heroism, while dynamic events are designed to be larger, multi-player activities that allow everyone to get involved. Events do not impact story, either, although you may have to participate in an event on the way to a story
Edited to add info, after I finally found the answer.
Will actions I take in the dynamic events system affect or interact with my personal story?
Affect, no. Interact with, yes. Sometimes, your personal story is taken from the same point of plot. The centaurs are attacking human lands, for example. There may be events to drive off the centaurs from Nebo Terrace, or to attack the centaur camp and kill a leader in their army. Separately, there may be a storyline that follows the path of a lost soldier, tracking him through said centaur camp to find clues as to his whereabouts. Those are interlinked, but they do not directly affect each other. Our intention with this is to make the world real and to show that the things happening all over the world are not isolated or self-contained incidents; they affect everyone in the area, both in large and small-scale ways.
Mechanically, a personal story will never change the outcome of an event. The storylines are personal, individual acts of heroism, while dynamic events are designed to be larger, multi-player activities that allow everyone to get involved. Events do not impact story, either, although you may have to participate in an event on the way to a story
Edited to add info, after I finally found the answer.
Thanks, I've read all the articles you linked initially first and couldn't really find an answer but the bit you added later suggests the storyline content which is situated in the world itself is happening in the persistent world as well, which is a good thing.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Yup. Those large loading portals aren't exactly seamless :<
Another thing to consider is that they spoke of the world offering totally different content depending on your personal single player story / class with other dynamic events, and:
That could mean a certain amount of phasing of the world itself. *shivers*
I really hope they will restrict phasing to dungeon bits rather than public zones or at least restrict it to certain stages of your personal story. I hated phasing in AoC.
He says a completely different personal story. He doesn't mention dynamic events in that context.
He does mention them, romanator0. But I guess it is open for multiple interpretations. Like I said, I hope it doesn't mean phasing of the open world.
"... when you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience a completely unique, different personal story if you want. When you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience completely different dynamic events as a result of that as well, as you go through maps you have gone through already you gonna have different content going on"
I guess the key bit is "maps". Could mean dungeon / personal instance maps / open world maps. I don't know.
Events cycle. This was stated the first time we heard about the events. You can see completely different events if you run through an area more than once. It is not a static world.
Only concern i have at the moment is related to this Q&A:
Will a player who doesn't participate much in a dynamic event get all of the rewards?
Johanson said that it only works if you actively participate. You can't just shoot one bullet and sit back. "It's pretty intelligent AI," he said. You can earn bronze, silver and gold participation, which affects your rewards.
Intelligent AI he says. there is no such thing.
I hope they make the npcs AI more intelligent. At least make them on par with what Tabula Rasa. I'm so tired of playing in games where the enemy is so stupid, my cat is smarter than them.
Comments
You are correct; the shrine is under attack whether or not you talk to anyone. While there ARE events in the world that can be triggered by talking to an NPC (not a scout), the majority of them carry on without player initiation, or are started due to time of day, or season, or some other factor.
What you suggest might be a way of going about it, as I don't know exactly what options ANet tried in their iterations of the scout NPC idea (you should probably suggest it via one of ANet's means of contact), but judging from what they said in last year's GDC presentation on Dynamic Events, some people just didn't "get" that they could act to affect the progression of events without NPCs with things over their heads and an explicit direction to go to. I'm not sure a chat box would be enough for those folks, but what do I know?
Meowhead and arenasb, I too wish it ANet didn't find it necessary to put in the scouts and the "New Event Nearby" text and hope I can turn it off in the UI. I was a bit disappointed to find that this was in the game when I saw the first footage last year, and would kind of love ANet to stick it to people who don't grasp the whole "you don't have to talk to anyone!!" idea - especially since it seems to serve as fuel to people who see NPCs with doohickeys over their heads and think "aha! Quest! ANet isn't doing anything differently after all!"
But, I want the game to be welcoming, too? So, oh well.
I also don't like the scout system, even though I see the reason for it being there. Maybe if they made the scouts only for the startin areas it would be ok just to give those that need it a feel for whats what. Then again maybe ANET will have the option to turn it off. Not knowing where and what all the dynamic events are adds to the exploration of the game and will allow for events to go further into the "if we fail to rescue or save" scenarios. The featurre doesn't comcern me in the least. If given the choice I will just turn it off and take pleasure in figuring the game out myself and just play.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
First i will say i do agree on their philosophy for doing the quests.These are actually just quests triggering each other.They cal lit a story i call it a questline,really no different,the difference is how they are going to do it.
Instead of specualating,just read what A-Net says they are doing,they are trying to eliminate reading text from a NPC and then doing some killing that lies about the "WHY" you are doing the killing.
A-net is trying to convey a realistic quest system,they are using NPC's to deliver the text/messages,example guards scouts whatever are going to ask for help.They have openly admitted that nobody wants to read text from a NPC with a marker over his head ...I AGREE.
Problems with this system??Don't even go there trying to say there is no problems,don't need any fanbois telling how everything is perfect..ok got that out of the way.First i am just specualating,becuase that is all anyone can do at this point.
1 What happens for players that are offline and miss out on the events?
2 There can be only so many events coded into the game,so what happens for new players that maybe lag behind the crowd or join the game a couple weeks later?Do they run out?
3 Are they going to have some sort of timer to delay triggering every event in the first two weeks of the game?How long could they delay it,i mean players wait months or does it basically finish up fast ,game over?
I "think" i see what they are trying to do,they are basically delivering a pile of single player games,each one can deliver a different storyline.I am not so sure this is a good system, i am sure the player base will determine that,and of course to each their own,everyone is not the same in their wants,needs from a game.
Also since the OP did say to watch the videos,and i DID do that,open them in full screen,watch the hotbar ...spamming button 111/2/3...1111/2/3.It happens over and over,never changes,doesn't look like very good combat.However to be fair[we want to be fair correct?] it "might" have been a clueless tester that didn't want to venture outside of pressing 3 buttons[everytime].I HOPE combat is better than what those two videos showed for combat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For the poster above me. No the content doesn't just run out, they will eventually reset and the events will play out again, though they can end differently and lead to completely unique outcomes to that you had experienced when you first played through the game, meaning that you can play through on an alt and have a completely unique experience to that you just had. Also the combat , the starter area and beginning few levels only allow for 2-3 skills to be used (or it could be all 5 weapon skills I'm not 100 percent sure and if thats the case the tester was just a noob) also the healing skill.
My biggest concern is the fact Anet is calling GW2 Seamless (of course there is the exception of personal story) but from what I am seeing there seems to be quite a few uh.. seams...
Concerning your concerns:
1. Events cycle
2. Events cycle
3. Events cycle
How did you figure they are basically delivering a pile of single player games? Dynamic Events are a very group-orientated aspect of the game. Even though there is no formal grouping, there is still natural grouping. All aspects of GW2 are group-oriented with the exception of the personal storyline.
Yes, there is a lot of skill bar spamming but there is also a lot of standing still while Anet said movement, positioning, dodging etc are very important. These are people who never played before playing the demo so you can't base anything on that.
Edit: @Stydus I'm not sure if Anet itself called GW2 'seamless' or only 'persistent'. I thought they only said persistent. However, it's true that from what we've seen GW2 will not be seamless.
I would like to see the following in the options menu:
-toggle mouseover outlines on/off
-disable overhead map quest icons
-show/hide quest tracker
-disable text alerts for events
-a slider scale for the skill bar
that would clear the screen up a lot for me. too much text happening on the monitor. too much highlighting on mouseovers. the bottom bar needs to be about half the size. get rid of that quest tracker on the right. and i'll be a happy gamer.
Have they said seamless? Can you provide a source for that because I've never heard it. They have said persistent a bunch because that is what is as opposed to GW1 which wasn't. But I don't ever remember them saying it would be seamless.
Look, it's necessary to eeeeease folks off the breadcrumb trails that they are so dependent upon right now. You can't just throw them into a world without signposts and expect them to know what to do and where to go next when they've spent years being conditioned to getting explicit instructions from questgivers, along with complimentary arrows pointing to where they need to go next. ArenaNet tried that during their earliest tests and they had players ignoring events that were happening right in front of them because no one told them they were supposed to be involved. Scouts bridge that gap.
Another thing that they discovered that after a while, players started skipping the scouts and just going right into events once they learned that they no longer needed 'permission' from an NPC to get involved.
Using the scouts to get get tips will always be optional. And it should also be mentioned that scouts don't 'give quests', they simply point to areas of the maps that are hotspots of event activity. I'm guesing that it's possible that even when the player arrives at a designated location, the event may be dormant, so it's not something they can completely rely on to hold their hand while they level. And if there is an event active, the player still needs to decide whether they want to participate or not, and exactly what their participation entails. A pretty elegant solution, I would say.
As for traditional quests vs. dynamic events, the personal storyline (which apparently encompasses the tutorials for each race) appears to be mainly quest-based while everything that takes place in the open world is dynamic.
NPCs with doohickeys over their heads are for personal story. Has to be someway to let players know they may continue their personal story if they wish.
THEY AREN'T QUESTS!!!! Traditional quests are one and done. You do them once and that is it. The events will cycle, some will restart on a timer, some will be triggered by players, some will be triggered by other events, etc.
I do agree with you on the button spamming however. I think its complete bullshit how they only give you 3 skills from the start. I really hate it when in the beginning of the game I'm stuck spamming my only skill(s) over and over again.
This is from that Eurogamer article posted awhile back
"The word ArenaNet's staff keep returning to when discussing the game is "seamless", and it's not hard to see why. It's equivalent to what Naughty Dog achieved for the action-adventure with Uncharted 2, but on a far grander logistical scale. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO where you almost can't see the joins."
I remember reading this and getting excited, but I think they either don't know precisely what the word means or its due to its alpha stage, but I for some reason doubt this.
Edit: Here is the link, this is stated at the bottom of the first page http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-23-guild-wars-2-hands-on?page=2
PS I suck at HTML
Will Guild Wars 2 be an MMO?
Yes. Guild Wars 2 provides a massive, online persistent world.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#five
"Playing it, Guild Wars 2 doesn't seem as radical as you might think, or as ArenaNet and its owner NCsoft might suggest. The biggest step the series makes in this sequel is to move from a largely instanced game with social hubs to a full-scale persistent world, with all players on a server sharing the same adventuring maps."
They weren't talking about the world when they said seamless, they were talking about how all the features and systems work together.
From that quote it's easy to see that seamless in that article means something entirely different from what we were discussing but you're right, they did mention it.
What I think Anet means by seamless is smooth gameplay or something like that.
Nope, I do not! And if you look I said that post was meant sarcastically. OH and here is a quote from a different thread, after you responded to me.
Is this where I say “Jump to misinformed conclusion much”? LOL
I know you are a Star Wars fan, if I went on there and said that TOR is a trinity based game where they turned Jedi into Clerics from EW and WoW. You would respond and tell me the context that makes what I said misinformed, that TOR is a soft trinity. That 3 classes can play as healers and that even when you play a Jedi as a healer you are going to have to do more than just be a heal bot. Do you see how the context changes the whole dynamic of what is said, and in fact makes TOR look a lot different than the first statement I said at the start of this!
So where is the context here? If you would do it for one game why would you not do it for another? If someone that knows nothing about GW2 reads your statement are they going to get an accurate representation of the game, or is it going to give them a misguided view of the game? So maybe what I said sarcastically was not jumping to conclusion after all, unless you want to actually start giving the actual facts about the game.
Now if you would have said, I understand why ANet added the Scout System and the UI reminders to help people learn how to play the game, but my personal opinion is that it feels like to much handholding. See context, it makes a world of difference and it lets people ask question instead of leading them to false conclusions.
That is all for now folks, tune in next week and we discuss more of how context is important.
1. Then they get to see other events when they are online, when events continually chain off of each other I don’t really see how this is a problem. Oh no I missed an event, well then maybe on my alt I will get to see the event, it is not the end of the world here.
2. No they do not run out! Tell me how this makes any rational sense! OK lets Barney style this, when you kill of the leader of the Mafia does that make the mafias of the world go away forever? When you kill the general of an enemy army, does that make the whole army disappear? The answer for both is NO, it case you are wondering. So here is a brilliant thought, why can’t ANet make it so an event would trigger, after you kill the bandit leader or centaur general, that would make a new leader come to power. Starting the struggle for the zone all over again, oh my god that almost seems logical and like a world. How can this be, whoever would of thought to make events trigger off other events? That is just too logical after all we all know what cause and effect is, but applying that to a game is beyond belief.
3. I am just going to answer this by saying look at the answer for your second question. I would also recommend watching the PAX west event panel (watch all 10 videos) where the fans get to design an event; it might help you understand how events actually work. That information kind of helps so you do not come to some weird conclusion like this question.
I hope these options are in for UI customization too, although I do not know why ANet would not let you change the UI that has been a feature of MMOs for a long time. Also ANet listens to their fans, they just added support for 7 heros in a group because some of their fans wanted it for GW. So I do not see them saying No you cannot have these options, if the fans request it.
Well the way its worded it doesn't make it seem that they are talking about features it seems to imply the world is seamless.
Yup. Those large loading portals aren't exactly seamless :<
Another thing to consider is that they spoke of the world offering totally different content depending on your personal single player story / class with other dynamic events, and:
"If you go through maps you have gone through already you have different content going on" It's in the answer to the first question.
That could mean a certain amount of phasing of the world itself. *shivers*
I really hope they will restrict phasing to dungeon bits rather than public zones or at least restrict it to certain stages of your personal story if it has to be public zones. I hated phasing in AoC.
My brand new bloggity blog.
He says a completely different personal story. He doesn't mention dynamic events in that context.
He does mention them, romanator0. But I guess it is open for multiple interpretations. Like I said, I hope it doesn't mean phasing of the open world.
"... when you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience a completely unique, different personal story if you want. When you're doing that, you're playing through the game, you're going to experience completely different dynamic events as a result of that as well, as you go through maps you have gone through already you gonna have different content going on"
I guess the key bit is "maps". Could mean dungeon / personal instance maps / open world maps. I don't know.
My brand new bloggity blog.
only phasing that occurs, occurs in your home instance (which is a lab for some race section of a city for another etc.)Hence the name home instance.
what they mean by "If you go through maps you have gone through already you have different content going on" is related to some misunderstanding.
First time you wander an area you visit a small village buy some potions etc, then wander off. Later with an alt or with the same character you revisit only to find that its razed down by centaurs.
Or you come to a place where some workers are working on a bridge and ask for your protection. You wander off and find that bridge destroyed later. Some time later you see that bridge repaired and working. Its dynamic.
ps. hilarious signiture darkpony. gz
I need more vespene gas.
Thanks for the compliment
Still in this bit I quoted they are speaking about "maps" offering different content specifically related to class / personal story.
But phasing only occuring in your home instance like you say is very good to hear. Do you have a link to that?
p.s. I know that the gameworld itself is dynamic with loads of public dynamic events going on though.
My brand new bloggity blog.
http://www.guildfans.com/story.html?story=25621&storypage=1
there is a page 2, which goes in a little bi detail. Also;
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Home_instance
Only concern i have at the moment is related to this Q&A:
Will a player who doesn't participate much in a dynamic event get all of the rewards?
Johanson said that it only works if you actively participate. You can't just shoot one bullet and sit back. "It's pretty intelligent AI," he said. You can earn bronze, silver and gold participation, which affects your rewards.
Intelligent AI he says. there is no such thing.
I need more vespene gas.
Here is a few links that go into detail about the personal story.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-stories/personal-story-overview/
http://www.unwinnable.com/2011/03/24/massive-guild-wars-2-reinventing-a-genre
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/05/29/guild-wars-2-personal-story-massivelys-interview-with-ree-soes/
If you do not want to read them all here is the part that really deals with your question about maps and personal story:
Ree Soesbee Answers Your Questions About GW2 Personal Storylines
Will actions I take in the dynamic events system affect or interact with my personal story?
Affect, no. Interact with, yes. Sometimes, your personal story is taken from the same point of plot. The centaurs are attacking human lands, for example. There may be events to drive off the centaurs from Nebo Terrace, or to attack the centaur camp and kill a leader in their army. Separately, there may be a storyline that follows the path of a lost soldier, tracking him through said centaur camp to find clues as to his whereabouts. Those are interlinked, but they do not directly affect each other. Our intention with this is to make the world real and to show that the things happening all over the world are not isolated or self-contained incidents; they affect everyone in the area, both in large and small-scale ways.
Mechanically, a personal story will never change the outcome of an event. The storylines are personal, individual acts of heroism, while dynamic events are designed to be larger, multi-player activities that allow everyone to get involved. Events do not impact story, either, although you may have to participate in an event on the way to a story
Edited to add info, after I finally found the answer.
Thanks, I've read all the articles you linked initially first and couldn't really find an answer but the bit you added later suggests the storyline content which is situated in the world itself is happening in the persistent world as well, which is a good thing.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Events cycle. This was stated the first time we heard about the events. You can see completely different events if you run through an area more than once. It is not a static world.
I hope they make the npcs AI more intelligent. At least make them on par with what Tabula Rasa. I'm so tired of playing in games where the enemy is so stupid, my cat is smarter than them.