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Are MMORPGs becoming "Dumbed down": A Disscussion on the state of the MMO genre.
Arran105
Member Posts: 2
Hi there guys and gals, I came here to get your opinions and hopefully begin a discussion that I feel could benefit greatly from your experiences and views as seasoned gamers.
I am currently in the process of writing a paper for university/college on the MMORPG genre. The focus of which centres around the debate that “In recent years the MMO industry has come under a significant amount of criticism for “dumbing down” its content to cater for a lesser skilled, larger audience”. My research has led me to discover that there are many arguments for and against this point. However, as we are all aware MMO games are commonly home to large scale, thriving communities which are of great importance to its participants. Just like the ripples in the pond saying, a seemingly small event can have catastrophic consequences. So what I am asking here is, from your experiences do you think that there is any truth to the criticisms that MMORPGs are becoming “dumbed down” and what, if any, effect is this having on the communities?
Below are some points to consider:
Is grinding (for levels or gear, i.e. raids) becoming a more streamlined process? Or is content getting too easy?
If game content is being made too easy, do guilds suffer? And is there any point to interacting in such a way anymore? Is team play dead?
Does “dumbing down” remove a players motivation to play games? Or does easy and entertaining make for longer play time?
Reputation and Renown? Did they ever exist in a MMO world, and do they still?
Are interactions online of any actual importance? Or have any resemblance to that of real life interaction?
Is “dumbing down” turning the whole MMO community into item ninjas, cheats, and abusive idiots? Or has the community stayed the same? Or always been…well…idiots?
However these points are only guidelines and I am really interested to see what your views on the whole subject are. As well as what your predictions for the future direction of the genre may be. Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
Comments
See Eve and Ultima Online for my answer
edit: they are the only games that ever brought Player interaction to a field where others dont mimic much anymore
Is grinding (for levels or gear, i.e. raids) becoming a more streamlined process? Or is content getting too easy?
If game content is being made too easy, do guilds suffer? And is there any point to interacting in such a way anymore? Is team play dead?
Does “dumbing down” remove a players motivation to play games? Or does easy and entertaining make for longer play time?
Reputation and Renown? Did they ever exist in a MMO world, and do they still?
Are interactions online of any actual importance? Or have any resemblance to that of real life interaction?
Is “dumbing down” turning the whole MMO community into item ninjas, cheats, and abusive idiots? Or has the community stayed the same? Or always been…well…idiots?
1. The game's I've played lately are WAY to easy. In WoW I can max level in 3 weeks (less if I push it) with no deaths if I PVE. I remember that I used to fear death in games, and they frustrated the crap out of me, but they also tought me how to be a better player, and avoid death. I don't think that a GOOD game can only focus on one emotion (joy) and ignore the rest. That makes the game not an experience (like a good movie) but just a prozac to give you false excitement. They speed up your exp so much that I made it through TBC, and WotLK missing at least half of the content. (I know because I never even went in most of the areas on my map.) I remember it used to be that when you got a rare item it was AWESOME. You used to be so excited, and you would use it for as long as you could (EQ), but now whenever I get an item I don't really care because I'm just going to be outleveling it, and getting a better one in 20mins. I think their are WAY to many quests now which shows a lack of fun things to do although I do appreciate being able to get quests more easily now. (EQ days it involved finding an NPC randomly, and having a conversation with it based on Key words.) I have played a lot of games before, and since wow, but I feel it is the most representitive of the current gaming landscape (unfortunetly) so it will be the focus of my answers.
2. I actually think that guilds have the same amount of "usefulness" now, but for Different reasons. It used to be that guilds were put together to find ways to level, and form strategy in battles that would be impossible alone, or with people that didn't know how to play. Now guilds seem to work for everyone. The games are so easy that anyone can take part in end game content (unearned), and it is now more of a social tool than a useful thing.
3. This question is subjective, and everyone will have a different opinion, but to me the "dumbing down" destroys the sense of achievment. If I just did something, or found something that ANYONE else can do with minimal effort then I don't feel special in any way. I just feel like....Oh....next step in the hand holding instruction manual. I like hardships in games at low levels. It makes you appreciate the good stuff at high levels SO much more. It's like life....if you have everything handed to you it becomes expected, but if you have to fight for what you have you appreciate it WAY more.
4. Reputation used to exist. I remember my FIRST mmo ever was "The Realm" the game was before the time of secure trades and such. One thing that stands out to me as far as reputation goes is what were called Middle Men. They were actual players that if asked would help two people broker a deal. You asked in chat if there were any middlemen on, and you would get a few responses, and then you would ask in chat if was honest or not, and you would either get SCAMMER!!!, or you would get something to the effect of " is a great MM, and I've used them a lot" etc. Middle Man wasn't a class, but a player driven choice, and if you did it your rep was based on your actions. In games now if you piss to many people off you can get a race change, a name change, and a faction change and start over so it is GONE. Rep doesn't matter anymore.
5. A lot of people i've met online have become good friends in real life, and I actually care about them as people. I recently moved from my home state to another state, and one good thing about the online friends is that I was able to bring them all with me. About 2 months ago I got a message that one of my xbox-live friends had died, and we used to talk almost every day about everything, and I honestly would consider him to have been one of my best friends, and was really shooken up when he died.
6. I think the casual nature of games now along with the lack of any consequences attract a different crowd. In the old days you generally didn't mention that you played MMO's because you figured you would be considered an outcast or a dork, but now all different types of people play, and the community is no longer willing to police itself. If you acted like people do these days in EQ, or any of the games around that era you would be rideculed to the point that the game wouldn't be fun for you anymore. The sad thing is that there are now "trolls" that are dipshits for the sake of being dipshits because they finally found a place where they are as powerful as everyone else to make up for their lack of...whatever they are missing.
Edit: Dear grammer nazis I'm sure I spelled something wrong, and wrote something else worng, and I don't care. (you also fall under #6)
You could also throw in the factor that I've discovered to some extent in WoW over the years. This factor is a double-edged sword though.
The thing I'm getting at is were all getting used to (and perhaps a little burnt out on) the current formula for this MMO genre as a whole.
The farther along we go, the more we see more and more of the same cookie cutter UO/EQ/WoW/War/DAoC clone where you pick a class, pick a race, go out into the world, TAB 1,2,3 = mob dead. Go do some FedEx, kill 20 pigs, collect 20 wolf ears quests, then participate in battleground type PvP mini games, or PvE end game raids. Then along comes a gear reset, new tier of gear comes out to grind for, rinse/repeat.
Ok, back in the beginning (especially in WoW, and especially for those of us who's first MMO was WoW); the whole trinity (tank/heal/dps) thing was new, the gameplay and mechanics were new, and the learning curve for some was pretty steep.
Now that most of us have mastered this type of game, and gotten used to various boss mechanics and encounters, numerous addons have been released, and there is an enormous amount of websites out there dedicated to min/maxing the various roles in these types of games.
So I would argue that a large part of this "omfg MMO's are just so damn easy" feeling is coming from TWO equally important aspects. #1 being players have gotten a lot better and min/maxing, and gotten better at the game in general, and #2; since the current WoW clone model has proven again and again to be a large financial sucess to these companies, innovation lately has been really falling behind esp in the AAA MMO market. Sure there are always Indie games that dare to do something different, but all you have to do is play World of Warcraft to at least level 30 or so, then go play Rift for a couple weeks, and you'll see what I mean
EQ, and UO were not really cookie cutter (but I'll forgive you since your first mmo was WoW) EQ started with 14 classes (now 16) and 15 races. The quest system was way different, and the game was not easy even after playing it for years. Yes it got easier the more you played, but I wouldn't call the possibility of a sand giant just blindsiding you, and destroying you easy, or camping the Anchient cyclopse for 3 days to get a possible J boots drop. I don't mean that you had to kill him over, and over for 3 days....I mean you literally had to be the person that was there to kill him when he randomly spawned after 3 days. THAT is reward. As for WoW because I had played many MMO's before it was never what I would consider a hard game, but now it's just rediculous how easy it is....I bet I could get to level 85 just with auto attack, and no other skills fighting mobs that were atleast within a level or 2 of me.
WoW is a very double edged sword. It brough funding to our precious MMO market, but it's a lot like Wal-Mart showing up....sure it has everything you "need", but it will destroy everything you love about your town (game) It closes all the mom, and pop stores (Independent studios), or they just get bought up by other stores, and there is no personal feeling left to it. It makes your town (game) feel like it has no soul left.
MMOs aren't getting easier, just more convenient. Old ass cars had manual locks and windows. Do innovations leading to power locks and windows equate to "dumbing down" the auto?
We aren't talking about the automotive industry we are talking about gaming. At least when I referenced walmart it was in direct connection to related examples. Why don't you go ahead and answer his questions in a thought out way, and I will see what you mean. A couple lines of text about cars is not a good argument for or against the dumbing down of games.
Edit: Also if you think that power windows don't make rolling windows down any easier you have obviously never owned an older car.
All games are becoming dumbed down! They will lose out in the end though. Problem is, how long is it going to take for them to realize that and how many will still be around by then? I'm sure EA and Blizzard will still be around, but what about the smaller start-ups that bring the new ideas?
From WoW's PTR patch notes
Hunter Pets
The Happiness/Pet Loyalty System has been removed. Hunters will no longer have to manage Happiness for their pets, and the previous damage bonus for pets being happy will now be baseline for all tamed pets.
Insta-happy pets at full level. Part of playing a hunter in WoW used to be pet management.
To me this is an example of dumbing down.
That is just not consistent with evidence. WOW has become easier from Vanilla to BC to WOTLK (no more 40 man raid, no more super difficult raid like Sunwell only 2% of people will see). What happened? WOW GREW its subscriptions through those times.
So I don't think they will lose out by making games eaiser. In fact, even FPSes are becoming easier .... and they are selling a lot more than 10 years ago.
I cannot coment on all games becouse ive not played all so if i have opinion its based on what my personal experience is.
Its become alot more easy these days getting good gear then around 10-11years ago i started with AC back in '99.
These days i have feeling many play more solo and becouse gear is easy to get in some games clans/guilds suffer for this. Teamplay is not completely dead but its sure alot less then years ago.
Whole heartly YES its for many older gamers a reason to stop playing or motivation to login. But for the newer generation it seems fun getting your gear and stuff real easy if its to hard they stop playing so for many its oposite of dumb down hehe. For me easy entertaining is less play time, i want more difficult and hardcore game play.
They have on some level always exist, but reputation back then was bigger i gues then these days with millions of gamers.
No but that also has to do with how games these days are designed so ninja is less posible these days. Cheating is getting WORSE these days alot WORSE.
AC back in '99 it was alot less cheating then thesedays in game like Darkfall both sandbox hardcore free for all pvp mmo's Darkfall is MACRO/EXPLOIT/AFK skilling up a plague and devs dumb down the game becouse of that this was alot less in Asherons call talking about first 2 years dunno last 9 years hehe. Idiots where always there i remember real idiots/douchbags back when i played AC in early days so this something of all time.
Becouse these days millions play and from all over the world its hard to say if community stays the same it seems worse but i dont think it is its just that alot more gamers these days ingame give another immage of how community these days act ingame.
Well good luck with your paper hope this helps a little sorry for my english its not that good so hope you can translate it so you understand what ive typed here:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
1. Standard content is way easier and much streamlined these days.
In almost every new game there is no need to show awareness for the surroundings, you go out and beat the soul out of anything in a totally mindless way.
Group and Raid content is also easier but they fake some difficulty into it with "hard modes/epic modes/whatever it is named" for the people yawning at the standard difficulty.
Difficulty is also dumbed down by the various tools so many gamers use while telling fables about their skills when its all using sort of sherpa-tools...
A good crafted encounter does not need tools, only a players mind and awareness, so its part of a fault of both sides, player and developer.
2. Sometimes i play solo and other times with friends.
Team play is dead as far as you have expectations about random groupmates and the behavior.
Only well formed groups of known people work in a way an old time gamer can stand.
Knowing your role, your responsibility, knowing your class and show at least average skill.
These modern 15 minute groupmates be really annoying for someone who wants to do some adventure instead of looking for the next groupmate.
3. The "dumbing down" lowers the entrance barrier for people new to the stuff. this is absolute okay.
Sadly there is no diversification in most games and it stays dumb all the way.
4. Yes - but not in an ever changing crowd of mmo-hoppers anymore.
So this belongs to how sticky your population is...
5. This is a matter of context. It can be both.
6. The folks in the past were sort of enthusiasts that shared a loose mindset while today there play different generations with totally different mindsets which leads to the feeling that the idiocy has grown exponentially.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
It's interesting how often the terms 'boring' and 'repetitious' are equated with 'difficult'. Thus anytime these two things are removed from a game in any way, the game is said to have been 'dumbed down' by those unfortunate souls who had to end up slogging through months of pounding out the same combination of keys that can still be used today to accomplish the same feat, but in only a week. The difficulty is identical. The key combination hasn't changed. Only the amount of times you have to repeat it is different. So things aren't dumber in most cases, just faster.
I totally agree with these statements. This is absolutely true for video games in general not just MMO's. The MAJOR reason for this is because of the rising number of console only gamers.
-EDIT- The major issue here is accessability. It is costing more money to make successful video games and rising numbers of console gamers along with WoW's accessibility are creating a new market for ultra-casual gamers. For we long experienced gamers our only hope is to find the few and far between games made by gamers - Firefall, for example.
The primary difference between modern MMOs and the original MMOs is that today's games are no longer focused on giving the player a world to escape to, but rather provide a means of instant gratification for a casual audience. Modern MMOs are massively multiplayer singleplayer games where the player doesn't even need to interact socially with others to play the game; they log in, do a few quests, get a few new items, play around on the auction house, and maybe jump into a BG or dungeon where they don't know any of the other players, and have no obligation to adhere to basic social courtesies. In my opinion, this change isn't limited to MMOs; rather, it's an industry wide trend that reflects the current political and social climate, and will follow a relatively predicatble path over the next five to ten years.
Current MMOs tend to stick to a very standard format; they all have levels (generally 50-60), they tend to be fairly linear in the way players progress, they offer archetypes or classes rather than providing freeform character development, and they are characterised by an "end-game" (that is somehow distinct from the rest of the game) that revolves around itemisation through instanced encounters, be they PVP or PVE. The world itself may as well be a lobby through which players access the actual content of the game. It serves little purpose beyond the initial leveling phase, and even then may not be necessary (as a warrior in WoW, I tanked my way to 80 using the LFG tool, and rarely left orgrimmar. Compare this to my first character, where I had seen the better part of 2 continents on foot by the time I reached 60). Compare this to the original MMOs, for which a large persistent world was a drawcard, the hardships of which have since become legendary. High death penalties, dangerous mobs and territories, and real risk in PVP were all seen as standard gameplay mechanics. Players had to rely on one another to survive, and reputations were built on player prowess, generosity, and comedic value to the group. Nowadays, reputation means very little because of cross-server battle-groups and and dungeons. There are so many people playing, that unless you are publicly outed as David Hasselhoff, no one can possibly remember every hotshot player or asshat they encounter in a single day.
Interestingly, this change in the way MMOs are played has attracted a new kind of gamer to the industry. As one reader of this board posted in another thread, if MMOs didn't have levels and PVE progression, what would anyone do? This seems to be a common sentiment; that entertainment must be clearly provided by the game itself, rather than being conceived of by the player within the confines of the game. An example would be the difference in playstyles between games like EVE and UO, where one is left to literally find their own way in the world, and WOW, where new tiers of armor are fed to the playerbase every few months. Older MMOs created a means for the player to craft a unique persona, and live that character in a rich virtual world. They provided means for player creativity such as writing and distributing poetry, distinguishing between the quality of crafted goods, providing side games such as cards and racing, fluff professions like brewing, and allowed people flexibility in creating their own game. When was the last time you visited a player-run tavern in WOW? Never, that's when. It's ironic that as technology has improved, MMOs have actually lost features. Modern MMOs are rapidly making persistent worlds redundant, and may as well be a series of connected Skinner boxes; the only gameplay that exists is that mandated by the company.
To me, it's readily apparent that this change is driven by the rise of corporatism within gaming media. Since WOW's success, the amount of money being funnelled into MMOs has risen spectacularly (STOR anyone?), and the number of derivative games being produced has skyrocketed. More tellingly, we've seen the appropriation of MMO mechanics in other genres, such as experience in FPS', permanent internet connectivity to play singleplayer games, and a decline in sandbox-type games. This will culminate in the probable migration of most large producers over to console, as it represents a better business model (standard hardware, fewer controls, more difficulty in pirating games). The PC platform will be abandoned to the indie developers, who, as with the mod developers of the late 90s and early 2000s, will create a new batch of games made by gamers, for gamers, and become the next generation of greedy corporate overlords. Until this happens though, we are stuck with the next batch of mediocre games, made for a generation too young to have played the likes of Marathon, System Shock, the original Age of Empires, CIV, Duke Nukem/Quake/Unreal and the first (superior) Half-Life, or even Starcraft, Diablo, and Warcraft I and II. These are players who genuinely believe that Modern Warfare has better multiplayer than Counter-Strike, and who cannot see the 'consolization' of modern PC games, because that's all they've ever known.
Personally? I blame advertising.
Themeparks are just being forced back into their true form due to customer demands. Singleplayer games with some coop/ competitive endgame. If it's useless or pointless it shouldnt cost extra. If being massively multiplayer is useless or pointless it shouldnt cost extra.
MMORPG's have a reason to be an MMO. It isnt just the technical ability.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
personally i blame consoles, it seems more and more, games are being dumbed down or scaled down due to hardware limitations of the various consoles....
I blame McDonald's... no wait... really I do.
I wrote a paper on the McDonaldization of society for a project a few years ago. The theory is that people have gotten used to the concept that big corporations are their servants, and that instant gratification will be provided to anyone who can pay the fee. It has spread to virtually every industry, but it started with fast food. Drive up to the sign, order "feel good food" (salt grease sugar), drive to the first window and hand a small amount of money, drive to the second window, receive fresh, hot, fast, delicious food handed directly to you in the comfort of your auto.
Minimal effort, minimal expense, minimal waiting, cordial service, and instant gratification!
This is exactly the same pattern as is happening in MMORPGs. Fast, cheap, easy, and most of all instant gratification because I deserve it.
And we wonder why people turn into fanboys. It is normal to enthrone to deity status an entity that makes us feel good about ourselves. I mean this in a very religious perspective... WoW is God to these people. "In WoW we trust."
Yes, they are being increasingly dumbed down.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I ranted on my blog about the dumbing down of MMORPG's earlier this year. It's a sad development IMO :'(
The funny or the sad part about this is you are right. There are already Blizzard Zealots talking about how Titan is going to dominate MMOs, and no one knows anything about it. They have made Blizzard a God that can do no wrong. If I like a game I will follow its development, but as a realist and a person that owns a business I know that it is a 50/50 chance for any game being made (just like it is a 50/50 chance for any buisiness being created to survive). Anything can fail because a trend can change or a fad can change and make a product that once was popular fall to being niche.
Right now I am following the development of GW2 because I liked the first game, and I learn all the facts about it that I can. But I also can see the risk in what ANet is doing, people could reject DEs and the personal story and the game could fall flat on its face. I hope I never get to the point where I believe a company will succeed no matter what they do; I personally do not want to have that much faith in anything that was built by man. And if I ever do become like the Blizzard faithful and start preaching how great GW3 will be when the only thing I know is a name, I know for me it will be a sign to give up gaming because I am way too invested in it. Of course that is just my opinion.
In mmo's though, people playing can provide all that to other people playing as part of the game. The reason we cant is because they took that ability away.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
true enough, give players tools to do so and they make a fun game, usually far more in depth and creative than a dev team can manage, take Eve.. proof that you don't need a script to be successful.
I think this is a brilliant point to make here, and its one thats really at the centre of the debate. It is quite clear to see that both sides have credible claims. However for me as a player mmo play has always been about the social interactions, and has been my main reason to participate. I can honestly say that my social experience in the genre has totally changed since the first time i loaded up and logged in. Let me give you an example of this. As the World of warcraft is arguably at the centre of the "dumbing down" criticism ill refer to a point from its patch changes.
Back in August 2006 the patch 1.12 titled "the drums of war" was released allowing players to participate in cross realm battle grounds. personally this totally turned the way i played on its head. No longer did i need to work on my reptuation and skill within the server only battle grounds in order to keep my spot in the top pvp team on the server. In fact within a week or so i had totally lost contact with pvp buddies who before the patch i spent large amounts of time playing with and got to know well. I personally would put this interaction on a par with meeting someone in real life. Soon i was able to just leach for honor and not even participate. So for me i feel the changes to the games content that caused the removal of my own personal teamplay, Has dumbed down play for myself. regardless of the fact difficulty did not alter, as battlegrounds were still competitive zones.
Does anyone else have any experiences similar to this? or maybe the total opposite? has game changes made the social aspect better for yourself?
Just like to throw in the phrase "Learning Curve".
What ever happened to that?
I honestly can't remember the last time where I didn't know exactly what to do and how to do it. When the knowledge from one game can apply directly to any other, that itself really speaks volumes on how "dumbed-down" a genre can get. It's gotten to the point that we're able to jump into nearly any game, new or old, and play it like we have been for years without so much as even a second thought.
(This can apply to all forms of gaming too I suppose, I mean well.. most mainstream games of any genre (especially shooters) are pretty hard to tell apart from one another in terms of what you do and how you do it.)
Of course none of this discussion has anything to do with the fact that you've probably played about 10 different MMOs and they are no longer new to you, so your experience is that much easier than for someone just starting. Yes, the games have gotten more streamlined, but you can blame that on the 'I want it, and I want it yesterday' mentality that is prevalant in todays society.