Best Economy and Comprehensive Crafting/ Gathering Systems

Zooce

I've only been playing since Feb 3 so my opinions do not reflect anything prior to patch 1.15a, or the original dev team.  Of course there are some lacking areas at the moment such as end-game content and traditional Final Fantasy jobs, but I have been thoroughly enjoying my game-time in Eorzea.  I'm sure you've heard the same horrible opinions and seen those old video reviews from last November saying how terrible the game was.  Well, I'm here to tell you I checked out FFXIV and knew instantly this was the game for me.  (I would HIGHLY recommend using a gamepad)  I've written other reviews on this site for Darkfall and Rift, so I figured I would share some of the insights I've gained while loving my time spent so far with FFXIV.



*The economy and market wards- FFXIV has the most amazing and fun economies of any game I have played to date. There have been days where I had planned to work on ranking up my pugilist but I never made it out of the market wards. I consider myself a crafter/ gatherer at heart, but the past month I have enjoyed the profitable role of trader more than anything else. I have no experience playing the market before the addition of a search feature, but I can only imagine the horrors and time wasted. System as it stands functions beautifully and warrents no major changes other than addressing underused LL and Grid wards.



*The synthesis and gathering mini-games- FFXIV absolutely has the best crafting and gathering of any game on the market. Only system coming remotely close is from Vanguard, which was excellant as well.  I really enjoy fishing- its a really nice contrast to spend an hour reelin em in after finishing a guildleve party with my linkshell.  Best thing about all the fish I catch is I turn them into shards using alchemy and this fuels my other crafting professions.  That's the wonderful thing about the crafting system in FFXIV- there is an emphasis placed on interdependancy.  Some people are annoyed by having to interact or depend on others, but as with the repair system I love this aspect of MMORPG's and it is something you won't find emphasized anywhere else so well.

People have been making comments that without a netflix subscription, they wouldn't be able to work up their crafting skills. I definately agree the fun mini-game becomes monotonous after things slow down and the grinding begins. Once I realized mashing standard synthesis overcomes most of the obstacles the mini-game throws at you- grinding while watching a few movies didn't seem like such a bad idea. More challenge, and rewarding intelligent decisions are the key as opposed to making the process easier or faster.



*The fatigue system- I watched the FFXIVTactics video explaing the system at least 4 times before I went out and bought the game. I knew what to expect. When I experienced its impact for the first time while playing my gimpy gladiator I hung up my weathered gladius and purchased a mining pick to go see what was inside those shiny red lights I kept stumbling across. After that I bought a cross-pein hammer and made some nuggets to repair my gear. I like this system as it encourages diversification which fuels the market. A month later now that I have found which classes I enjoy the most, reaching the first few levels of fatigue doesn't bother me in the least as I continue to do battle leves for guild marks or grind parties with LS mates. Players with tunnel-vision may not like it, but they would be wise to branch out and enjoy the ride.



*The repair system- This system is great, by far the best of any game I've played!



*Frequent communication from the dev team- I was very impressed last month with the Letters from the Producer, as well as the Ask the Devs articles. When the forums were announced my immediate concern was that the quality of those front page articles would take a step down since they would be comfortably nustled inside the forums. If they remain greatly informative while becoming less flashy no harm done I suppose.



*The player polls- I actually read in one thread that someone was complaining about SE wasting time with player polls. I missed out on the first poll, but was quite impressed with the second one and eagerly awaited its results. I would like to see more frequent polls.

Eorzea is definately the place to be!  Feel free to leave questions, I'll do my best to answer them objectively. 

Disdena

Originally posted by Zooce

*The economy and market wards- Having crafters make all of the items in the game is a huge departure from MMO conventions and I think that's what made the economy so good. However, it's a bit ruined (in my opinion, anyway) by just how prevalent most of the raw materials are. You get so many nuggets from a few pieces of ore, so many dagger grips from a single log, etc. One person spending a few hours gathering will get enough logs or ores to make 100 pieces of equipment, enough for everyone he can see. One guild spending a few days gathering will get enough raw materials to make enough equipment for everyone who will ever play the game. As for the market wards, I liked them better before a lot of the finer searching went in. They've got it so close to an actual AH/broker that the differences are just annoying. If all the searching is already being done from one menu in one location, why can't you do the buying and selling and pick up your gil from there too? They pushed it so far towards an AH counter that now there's no point in not going all the way. The uniqueness of having a system of wards and retainers to browse was completely lost.



*The synthesis and gathering mini-games- The mini-games are indeed something that I enjoyed and would like to see again. I only wish that more attention was needed to do them, especially where crafting was concerned. With all of those special abilities and 3 kinds of synthesis, it would have been great if they made it so that something other than "Standard>Standard>Standard>Standard" was the most advantageous method.

*The fatigue system- I never encountered this, not even once. It's kind of a shame that there was so much negativity about it when it turned out to be nothing at all. I think if there was any way that S-E could have known how much popularity it was going to cost them, they wouldn't have put it in in the first place. Slowing down the fastest tunnel-vision players is useful, but not worth that amount of bad press.

*The repair system- I thought the repair system was okay after they made underwear indestructible and made NPCs repair to 75%, but would have been better if materials weren't such a pain. Since nobody ever offered a decent price for repairs (at least on my server), there was just no incentive to carrying around a lot of scrap materials to do repairs out in the field. And there was no easy way of offering the materials as you ask for repairs. That would have been useful.



*Frequent communication from the dev team- A lot of the articles I saw on Lodestone were about things I didn't need to know, like to change jobs and how to talk in linkshells. It seemed like information that needed to be put out before launch or at launch.



*The player polls- This was basically what caused me to lose hope in the game and stop playing. I just can't stand the idea that the new producer puts so much faith in user polls and is so willing to change so much about the game just based on what the players say they want. It can't do anything but worsen the game. The game needs a vision and the designers need to be the ones who have that vision. It's not enough for them to say "Whatever the majority says is good, that's what we will do next." A game cannot be designed by a committee of tens of thousands of players, especially if most of them are jaded and unhappy.

GPrestige

You LITERALLY like the exact things everyone else hates. I would love to visit bizarro world some day. The economy is horrendous, the fatigue system is useless, the repair system is the worst I've come across in any MMO because gear deteriorates way too fast and it literally impacts your damage/defense. It should simply be a money-sink

 

I don't know what else to say...

 

(I can't tell if you're trolling or not)

Hyanmen

Originally posted by GPrestige

You LITERALLY like the exact things everyone else hates. I would love to visit bizarro world some day. The economy is horrendous, the fatigue system is useless, the repair system is the worst I've come across in any MMO because gear deteriorates way too fast and it literally impacts your damage/defense. It should simply be a money-sink

Well, one out of three right is not too bad.

Zooce

Originally posted by Disdena

Apologies for replying in your quote like this but I can't figure out how to multi-quote cleanly.

*The economy and market wards- Having crafters make all of the items in the game is a huge departure from MMO conventions and I think that's what made the economy so good. However, it's a bit ruined (in my opinion, anyway) by just how prevalent most of the raw materials are. You get so many nuggets from a few pieces of ore, so many dagger grips from a single log, etc. One person spending a few hours gathering will get enough logs or ores to make 100 pieces of equipment, enough for everyone he can see. This is true.  Materials are constantly flowing into the market and are available for crafters to purchase and turn into parts or finished products.  The free-market system however limits the amount of finished products for sale since traders undercut each other and the price will eventually reach a point where crafters will stop producing that particular item and shift their attention to a more profitable area.  If there are 20 Brass Spears for sale currently and the profit margin is so low that I as a crafter am basically working for free- unless I already made 5 Brass Spears and just want to clear out some inventory space my production will be elsewhere, such as Maple Wand of Fire.  One guild spending a few days gathering will get enough raw materials to make enough equipment for everyone who will ever play the game.  Bit of an exageration, but I definately see your point.  Items exiting the market is an area they need to address.  Take the Maple Wand of Fire from my last example- some conjurer buys that wand from me for 58,000gil.  I make another couple wands and place them on my retainer for sale.  Turns out that conjurer was a leveling mad-man and two days later he has outgrown the wand and is now just looking to get rid of it so he undercuts everyone.  One option is to buy it back from him at the low cost and re-sell for profit.  The problem as you pointed out remains that these items never break/ exit the market unless someone quits the game. As for the market wards, I liked them better before a lot of the finer searching went in.  I strongly disagree.They've got it so close to an actual AH/broker that the differences are just annoying. If all the searching is already being done from one menu in one location, why can't you do the buying and selling and pick up your gil from there too? They pushed it so far towards an AH counter that now there's no point in not going all the way. The uniqueness of having a system of wards and retainers to browse was completely lost.  I see your point, but I don't think they are implementing an AH as we all know from other games.  The AH would be a true auction for rare and valuable items (think +3 endgame gear) not common junk.  The market wards currently operate well, but require some changes to become even more efficient.  The market stands (relic from the system you seem to prefer of potential buyers grazing over the endless sea of retainers) no longer give merchants increased visibility since the search interface doesn't differentiate between renting a stand or not.  Also, everyone congregating in Ul'dah has left the two other city markets pretty barren.  With the coming of Ishgard the developers surely have plans to implement some better travel options (chocobo, airship) and create some form of global economy to avoid neglecting parts of the world.



*The synthesis and gathering mini-games- The mini-games are indeed something that I enjoyed and would like to see again. I only wish that more attention was needed to do them, especially where crafting was concerned. With all of those special abilities and 3 kinds of synthesis, it would have been great if they made it so that something other than "Standard>Standard>Standard>Standard" was the most advantageous method.  Yep, definately agree.  While I do notice and appreciate the effects of the various crafting special abilities when attempting to synth a challenging recipe, standard spam is all it takes to grind easier ones.

*The fatigue system- I never encountered this, not even once. It's kind of a shame that there was so much negativity about it when it turned out to be nothing at all. I think if there was any way that S-E could have known how much popularity it was going to cost them, they wouldn't have put it in in the first place. Slowing down the fastest tunnel-vision players is useful, but not worth that amount of bad press.

*The repair system- I thought the repair system was okay after they made underwear indestructible and made NPCs repair to 75%, but would have been better if materials weren't such a pain. Since nobody ever offered a decent price for repairs (at least on my server), there was just no incentive to carrying around a lot of scrap materials to do repairs out in the field. And there was no easy way of offering the materials as you ask for repairs. That would have been useful.  Yeah I always keep materials on me to repair my own gear, so I check to see if I can repair others while I'm out doing leves or farming.  With the changes last month to item degredation, it takes much longer for stuff to break down and require repairs.  On top of that, they lowered the "light gear damage" debuff from 50% durability down to 35% which was another great improvement.  It is annoying when people put items in their bazaar to be repaired and offer 100gil reward when the repair material sells for 2000.  I think those are the people complaining about the repair system.



*Frequent communication from the dev team- A lot of the articles I saw on Lodestone were about things I didn't need to know, like to change jobs and how to talk in linkshells. It seemed like information that needed to be put out before launch or at launch.  Yep, most of the information on the Lodestone is aimed at the new players.  The articles I enjoy are the "Ask the Devs" and the "Letters from the Producer". 



*The player polls- This was basically what caused me to lose hope in the game and stop playing. I just can't stand the idea that the new producer puts so much faith in user polls and is so willing to change so much about the game just based on what the players say they want.  I disagree, but you aren't the only one unhappy about the polls.  Informed descisions are better than assumptions.  In his "Letter from the Producer V" Naoki Yoshida states,"These tremendously informative results will go a long way towards serving as a barometer of sorts for future content balancing." (http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=7268beda5ef81b10600f4ba07316083b634f7678) It can't do anything but worsen the game. The game needs a vision and the designers need to be the ones who have that vision. It's not enough for them to say "Whatever the majority says is good, that's what we will do next." A game cannot be designed by a committee of tens of thousands of players, especially if most of them are jaded and unhappy.  Definately agreed, but there have been some productive discussions about improving the game amongst the trolling and tears.  I feel confident in Yoshi's vision for FFXIV, but the radical changes to the battle system and introduction of Grand Companies are coming soon- so we'll see.

moguy1

Needing more people to play this game? Im sure theres a ton of folks that still have their 50 dollar worthless cd set sitting around. But then again I doubt they would resub back into the same " Updated " crap.

 

Theres other stuff out there now, ya know?

Zooce

Originally posted by moguy1

Needing more people to play this game? Im sure theres a ton of folks that still have their 50 dollar worthless cd set sitting around. But then again I doubt they would resub back into the same " Updated " crap.

 

Theres other stuff out there now, ya know?

 Well aware of the current market- nothing of remote interest till GW2 or TERA US open beta in my book.  As I stated in my OP, just sharing some insights in case others were curious.

simmihi

 just sharing some insights in case others were curious.

Thank you for that. Yes i've read tons of bad reviews, and they've turned me off from buying the game at / soon after launch. But from what you wrote, at least FFXIV seems interesting and different enough to make me try it for myself.

WSIMike

Originally posted by Disdena

O

*The player polls- This was basically what caused me to lose hope in the game and stop playing. I just can't stand the idea that the new producer puts so much faith in user polls and is so willing to change so much about the game just based on what the players say they want. It can't do anything but worsen the game. The game needs a vision and the designers need to be the ones who have that vision. It's not enough for them to say "Whatever the majority says is good, that's what we will do next." A game cannot be designed by a committee of tens of thousands of players, especially if most of them are jaded and unhappy.

An outcome of the polls, in particular, is what could be the final nail in the coffin for me - depending on how they interpret and implement the feedback of one item in particular: Instancing.

One thing I loved about FFXI was that, beyond things like BCNMs, there was no instancing in the game. It's a large, contiguous and shared world. No one gets their own "private version of Vana'diel", and yes, people have to learn to share, compromise, cooperate and learn that yes others are there and that the game doesn't revolve around them. There are people who complain about that - having to fight over resources or rare spawns. On the other hand, it's those things that made the game more interesting, more challenging (yes, competing against someone else for a prize is a challenge... look how many real world activities are based around that very concept).

They are also the thing that helped to shape the awesome community XI was known for having for so many years.

People had to cooperate, they had to compromise, they had to share... In the process, they got to know other players, some rose above the rest as being outstanding players/people, others sunk below the rest, becoming known as jackasses... You could not be an ass in those situations and not expect it to catch up with you later on. People's reputation mattered in XI, because the game relied so much on player interaction... in several areas, not only in terms of grouping.

The persistent and shared nature of Vana'diel is just one of many things that make/made it a virtual world, not merely a game.

I would bet real world money that were XI more instanced and more soloable for the first several years of its existence, it would not have developed *near* the community it did. I would also contend it would not have had the loyal following it had. It would possibly resemble the current scene more, where people jump into a game, race through everything, get to the end, get bored... and are on to the next game only a few months later, to do the same thing all over again.

This is why I will be potentially permanently driven away from XIV if they go as far with instancing as they might, based on player feedback. It's also a rather sad state of affairs to me that so many people - despite increasing complaints of people "getting tired of instanced worlds" - voted overwhelmingly for more instancing. Then, guaranteed, when the game becomes a more broken up world of isolated, private instances that resembles GW's Tyria or DDO's Eberron more than it does FFXI's Vana'diel or Vanguard's Telon, they'll be complaining about how the game is too instanced. Funny how that works, isn't it?

If they have any intention of making Eorzea anything like a massive, immersive and believable virtual world... then going too heavy on instancing would be very counter-intuitive. Heavy instancing kills the feeling of a large, virtual world. It doesn't support it. I think they already screwed the game up quite enough by making counter-intuitive decisions prior to the game's launch.

Maybe I'll be wrong and they'll restrict instancing to very specific types of content that are better suited to small groups or soloers than to the world at large... I'm hoping that's the case.

If it isn't, though, and they go all out... yeah... that would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

Lowdos

Originally posted by WSIMike

Maybe I'll be wrong and they'll restrict instancing to very specific types of content that are better suited to small groups or soloers than to the world at large... I'm hoping that's the case.

If it isn't, though, and they go all out... yeah... that would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

 

Yoshi-P sounds like he's pretty level-headed about these things. I'd be VERY surprised if full-on instancing was inclusive in their future visions for FFXIV.

A mix of both would be ideal.