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Why didn't Rift just remove classes altogether and only do soul shards???

gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

I'm wondering why Rift just didn't take their soul shard concept all the way to its logical conclusion:  that all players could select from any combination of soul shards to form their character.  I mean that is the essence of their soul shard concept, where pretty much every class can perform any role based on soul shard choices.   So why bother with classes at all?  The game does not really differ regarding the quests and events based on your class choice, and variety of starting areas are minimal.

I really don't see what the class concept brings to this game, when you boil it down to its essence...

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Comments

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,527

    Complete balancing issues. If you could be a very good tank, very good healer, and very good dps at the same time? Obviously it would just turn into everyone using the same three in pvp, everyone using the same 3 in dungeons. It's just better having it locked based on class.

  • grimfallgrimfall Member UncommonPosts: 1,153

    Warriors have no healing role, Mages have no tanking role and can't really be main healers, I've yet to see a cleric effectively tank, and the Rogue's healing role, like the Mage is more of a support healer.  Pretty much you can choose only two of the "holy trinity" with one class in a dungeon party.

    Also there are class specific mechanics, Rogues have their target combo points, the Warriors have their transferable ones and Mages have their "charge".

    Finally they followed the basic cloth, leather, chain, plate armor formula, so if you had souls across three classes you would need three complete sets of armor and weapons.

    It works pretty well, since most parties are typically 3 x DPS (which all classes can do), a tank (which two or three claesses can do) and a Healer (which only one class can do, or a mage healer and rogue healer can do in tandem).  There are, however, a lot more clerics, than in most games because clerics can be nukers or melee fighters as well, which makes them more appealing.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    I don't think it would limit the variety people choose.  They could have tied some restrictions to the shards, such as certain shards require certain types of armour.  Or certain shards warp your player into a certain look (like a werewolf shard or something).  Maybe one shard give you an extra arm, ha.  I think people would come up with even more combos than their current approach.

    I just think it would provide the ultimate flexibility.  To be honest the soul shard concept was the only thing about Rift that I really thought was intriguing.  I was kinda been there done that for most other aspects of the game.

    But completely opening up to any combination of soul shards, with implications on armour, weapons, look, etc based on which shards would I think make this game even more intriguing...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,527

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    I don't think it would limit the variety people choose.  They could have tied some restrictions to the shards, such as certain shards require certain types of armour.  Or certain shards warp your player into a certain look (like a werewolf shard or something).  Maybe one shard give you an extra arm, ha.  I think people would come up with even more combos than their current approach.

    I just think it would provide the ultimate flexibility.  To be honest the soul shard concept was the only thing about Rift that I really thought was intriguing.  I was kinda been there done that for most other aspects of the game.

    But completely opening up to any combination of soul shards, with implications on armour, weapons, look, etc based on which shards would I think make this game even more intriguing...

    But that would leave something like a darkfall class system. Without the skillups, it is pretty much the same. You choose what you want to do and make your class like that, I guess it would kinda limit it, but in darkfall everyone always had the same build.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    I don't think it would limit the variety people choose.  They could have tied some restrictions to the shards, such as certain shards require certain types of armour.  Or certain shards warp your player into a certain look (like a werewolf shard or something).  Maybe one shard give you an extra arm, ha.  I think people would come up with even more combos than their current approach.

    I just think it would provide the ultimate flexibility.  To be honest the soul shard concept was the only thing about Rift that I really thought was intriguing.  I was kinda been there done that for most other aspects of the game.

    But completely opening up to any combination of soul shards, with implications on armour, weapons, look, etc based on which shards would I think make this game even more intriguing...

    But that would leave something like a darkfall class system. Without the skillups, it is pretty much the same. You choose what you want to do and make your class like that, I guess it would kinda limit it, but in darkfall everyone always had the same build.

     Well the big difference is you can only choose three shards, not just skill up every skill.  It would fundamentally ensure people did still come up with their own versions of tanks, healers, and dps.  If you try to choose one shard from each tank/healer/dps for instance you would have a gimp that couldn't really do anything very well.  Darkfall you can max skill in absolutely everything.  The soul shard concept very nicely eliminates that.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
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    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • Scorp1usScorp1us Member Posts: 26

    In the end you would just get an acronym type "class", with an acronym type name. This way you at least get an idea of what arch-type you would like to play right out of the box.

    Emberlord ~ Defiant to the End!

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Scorp1us

    In the end you would just get an acronym type "class", with an acronym type name. This way you at least get an idea of what arch-type you would like to play right out of the box.

     Yes, and that is how they could have accomodated the newbs or those that didnt want to deal with all the possiblities up front.  Allow for choosing templates but not restrict from completely opening the shard choices later.

    And I know its just a thought and I'm actually not subscribed to Rift, but I think that complete flexibiilty might have been a big enough difference from all the other MMOs I've played that I might have given it 3 months at least...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
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  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    If there'd be no classes but everyone having access to any souls, there'd be no reason to ever level more than one character for each faction, which would cause quickly everything below max level to be void of players.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by maji

    If there'd be no classes but everyone having access to any souls, there'd be no reason to ever level more than one character for each faction, which would cause quickly everything below max level to be void of players.

     Hmmm, well how about this.  You only unlock the shards associated with the 4 classes (or templates) for your account by playing each of the 4 template types (current classes).  In fact this would get even more people to run through multiple times as it further opens the game for you.

    Just throwing out ideas.  I'm bored today...

    In games that allow it I usually try to combine rogue traits with mage traits.  Rift has a shard or two in the rogue class which brings mage like abilities, but why not just open it all the way...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,158

    I don't think that's a logical conclusion at all.

    I don't believe in this "everything but the kitchen sink" type of development where anyone can be anything they want.

    "I'm a Heavy plate wearing thief capable of walking in shadows, nimbly dodging the heaviest blow; which wouldn't be a big deal because I'm strong and burly and can take any attack that falls on my body, only to then retaliate in any number of ways, one of them being calling down the most powerful lighting from the skies to scorch my enemies. And I can heal myself continually".

    Yeah, I don't like that at all.




  • MarknMarkn Member UncommonPosts: 195

    Some of you dont know wth you're talking about.

     

    Ive seen a cleric tank 40 + dungeons with justicar soul.

    Ive seen a Chloromancer main heal this same dungeon.

     

    The bard is more of a support healer but the HOTs help so much they make it way WAY easier to keep your tank up.    Ive also seen a justicar out heal the main healer and do 3 times the overhealing the main healer did.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I don't think that's a logical conclusion at all.

    I don't believe in this "everything but the kitchen sink" type of development where anyone can be anything they want.

    "I'm a Heavy plate wearing thief capable of walking in shadows, nimbly dodging the heaviest blow; which wouldn't be a big deal because I'm strong and burly and can take any attack that falls on my body, only to then retaliate in any number of ways, one of them being calling down the most powerful lighting from the skies to scorch my enemies. And I can heal myself continually".

    Yeah, I don't like that at all.

     Actually you didn't read my idea carefully.  Certain shards would have restrictions on them.  For example a shard that had hide in shadows would restrict you to leather or cloth.  So your example above would be impossible.

    And I'm just taking what the game is already doing to its final conclusion:  it has eliminated many classes that exist in other games down to only 4.  So they have already gone halfway down this path.  There are ways to do it that dont allow plate wearing ninjas that shoot fireballs.  But maybe you can have ninjas that shoot fireballs, but they cant wear armour and maybe their strength is weakened by shooting fireballs...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,851

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    I'm wondering why Rift just didn't take their soul shard concept all the way to its logical conclusion:  that all players could select from any combination of soul shards to form their character. 

     

    This was initial plan

    I think somewhere last year they chickened out , fear of unbalancing most  probably

    Although the game is probably the most unbalancedd mmo i ever played , anyway



  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    I'm wondering why Rift just didn't take their soul shard concept all the way to its logical conclusion:  that all players could select from any combination of soul shards to form their character. 

     

    This was initial plan

    I think somewhere last year they chickened out , fear of unbalancing most  probably

    Although the game is probably the most unbalancedd mmo i ever played , anyway

     Interesting.  I does seem it would be very very easy for them to implelement with minimal patching.  Maybe they will consider it again in the future.  I am actually more intrigued not just by the things you gain by choosing certain shards, but what you lose and how it affects your appearance.  I think it would be very fun to experiment with...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,158

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I don't think that's a logical conclusion at all.

    I don't believe in this "everything but the kitchen sink" type of development where anyone can be anything they want.

    "I'm a Heavy plate wearing thief capable of walking in shadows, nimbly dodging the heaviest blow; which wouldn't be a big deal because I'm strong and burly and can take any attack that falls on my body, only to then retaliate in any number of ways, one of them being calling down the most powerful lighting from the skies to scorch my enemies. And I can heal myself continually".

    Yeah, I don't like that at all.

     Actually you didn't read my idea carefully.  Certain shards would have restrictions on them.  For example a shard that had hide in shadows would restrict you to leather or cloth.  So your example above would be impossible.

    And I'm just taking what the game is already doing to its final conclusion:  it has eliminated many classes that exist in other games down to only 4.  So they have already gone halfway down this path.  There are ways to do it that dont allow plate wearing ninjas that shoot fireballs.  But maybe you can have ninjas that shoot fireballs, but they cant wear armour and maybe their strength is weakened by shooting fireballs...

    ah but you didn't say that in your original post, your thesis of sorts, so that is what I was responding to.




  • MyPreciousssMyPreciousss Member Posts: 427

    If I understood the story and the quests giving you souls, you kill undead baddies who had a speciality, like champion, beastmaster, etc and you can absorb their knowledge with maximum three souls in you. If you had all souls available it would make you multischizophrenic.

    And in real life too, specializations exist because you can't simply do many different things at an expert level.

  • Well, then there would be paladin tanks/dps rogue or caster/sentinel healers in one character.......damn near impossible to kill.

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