At the end of the day the only thing the customer - the average MMO player - should be concerned about is:
Am I happy with what I am getting for my money?
Who tripped and spilled coffee on the server box which caused the network cable to overheat which caused the memory leak which caused the delay in Epic games patch which caused the volcano eruption is and should be an irrelevant issue to the end-customer.
True in general, but at the same time it's part of the information a customer has to go on, in reckoning whether to stick with the game or not.
I'm just defending SV a bit because I've heard bad things about the Unreal engines as applied to MMOs, and I have first hand experience of how bad it can be, from playing Vanguard.
Proposed fact: neither Unreal or Cryengine are purpose-built for MMORPGs. Is this true or not?
For discussion's sake, it is entirely flawed reasoning for defending SV. Someone from SV decided to use Unreal engine, nobody forced it down their throats at gun-point.
For the end customer, it is moot point. You - as the customer - are paying the subscription for this MMO. You're not paying any subscription to Epic Games for their engine, or to Epic China for their patches, or to Iceland's Geology Department for anti-volcano measures your subscription goes to Starvault AB. Are you happy with what you are getting for your money?
For discussion's sake, it is entirely flawed reasoning for defending SV. Someone from SV decided to use Unreal engine, nobody forced it down their throats at gun-point.
For the end customer, it is moot point. You - as the customer - are paying the subscription for this MMO. You're not paying any subscription to Epic Games for their engine, or to Epic China for their patches, or to Iceland's Geology Department for anti-volcano measures your subscription goes to Starvault AB. Are you happy with what you are getting for your money?
Woah woah woah, lets not forget here that SV chose to use Unreal...
Theres nothing inherently wrong with the engine. It's a good product and does well at what it does.
Them choosing Unreal was financial ruin because it closed a market of players that would potentially be interested in the game. You can't do that when your game is already catering to a very, very small crowd.
If you say so. I doubt that SV would have come even close to where they are now without the licensing of the Unreal engine. But yes choosing it does have drawbacks.
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by cirsyndic
For discussion's sake, it is entirely flawed reasoning for defending SV. Someone from SV decided to use Unreal engine, nobody forced it down their throats at gun-point.
For the end customer, it is moot point. You - as the customer - are paying the subscription for this MMO. You're not paying any subscription to Epic Games for their engine, or to Epic China for their patches, or to Iceland's Geology Department for anti-volcano measures your subscription goes to Starvault AB. Are you happy with what you are getting for your money?
How many times is Henrik going to go to the "it was EPIC's fault not ours" well for an excuse??? I would of thought that well would of went dry already.
Actually he may not be making excuses but telling the truth. The impression I've gotten in passing, from my occasional lurkings on game developers boards, etc., is that while the Unreal 3 engine is a great fps and multiplayer fps engine (obviously), there's some stuff specific to the requirements for an MMORPG that it's not so hot for. I think Vanguard had lots of problems using an earlier version of Unreal 2 (and actually also part of the then-prototype Unreal 3).
I gather similar problems arise for MMORPGs based on Crysis 2 engine - again, look pretty great, but have some problems relating to network requirements for an MMO, on account of being an fps engine with MMORPG bits and pieces tacked on.
Sadly I guess the Hero engine, a game engine developed specifically for MMORPGs, wasn't around when SV started this idea, and Unreal 3 must have looked like a good bet at the time.
Please take the above with a pinch of salt of course, I'm not in the business and not a programmer, but it's what I can piece together from my own intel, in passing, in the course of my amatuer investigations around game design.
I agree with everything you said except the first line. A company is responsible for what THEY sell YOU. Like I said in my post above: While the programing error might be on Epics side, the decision to install the day of their Free Trial (and go home for the weekend) is 100% StarVault's.
When I go to watch a movie and the power goes out (which actually just happened to me last weekend!) the movie theater apologizes and gives you a refund. They don't go on the intercom and say "It's not our fault... it is the power companies fault.. we have been trying to get them to fix it and hope they will get to it on Monday, but please understand that they have many customers so it may not get fixed"
I would like to note.
MAG uses the Unreal 3 engine. With real time bullet physics, lighting, vehicles, and all the modern bells and whistles necessary to make it a right and proper shooter running smoothly with 256 people in the same environment, shoothing at one another in droves.
How does it work for them and not MO? Well, Sony rewrote the networking layer of the engine themselves. They had offered to do it in junction with Epic, but Epic declined and Sony went ahead by themselves.
After making MAG work, Epic demanded the source code for the networking layer from Sony, to which Sony called Epic a bunch of pricks and gave them nothing.
In some regards, I would actually believe Epic is at fault for some of this as they try to redo and learn what Sony pulled off. However, it is equally the fault of the developer when they can't write the networking layer or other parts of the engine themselves.
Hell, even Red Five rewrote parts of the engine they use along with making much of the networking layer for their game.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
For discussion's sake, it is entirely flawed reasoning for defending SV. Someone from SV decided to use Unreal engine, nobody forced it down their throats at gun-point.
For the end customer, it is moot point. You - as the customer - are paying the subscription for this MMO. You're not paying any subscription to Epic Games for their engine, or to Epic China for their patches, or to Iceland's Geology Department for anti-volcano measures your subscription goes to Starvault AB. Are you happy with what you are getting for your money?
Yes.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59607-id-like-play-some-now.html
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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If you say so. I doubt that SV would have come even close to where they are now without the licensing of the Unreal engine. But yes choosing it does have drawbacks.
and yet ANOTHER deleted thread
I do find it strange that there are many other games using the Unreal engine and none of these have to rely on blaming EPIC for things that go wrong.
I think it is time we called it a day on Mortal Online.
Such a shame as it has a lot of promise.
I would like to note.
MAG uses the Unreal 3 engine. With real time bullet physics, lighting, vehicles, and all the modern bells and whistles necessary to make it a right and proper shooter running smoothly with 256 people in the same environment, shoothing at one another in droves.
How does it work for them and not MO? Well, Sony rewrote the networking layer of the engine themselves. They had offered to do it in junction with Epic, but Epic declined and Sony went ahead by themselves.
After making MAG work, Epic demanded the source code for the networking layer from Sony, to which Sony called Epic a bunch of pricks and gave them nothing.
In some regards, I would actually believe Epic is at fault for some of this as they try to redo and learn what Sony pulled off. However, it is equally the fault of the developer when they can't write the networking layer or other parts of the engine themselves.
Hell, even Red Five rewrote parts of the engine they use along with making much of the networking layer for their game.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin