Well not even EQ harcores couldnt stand Lineage 2 So if you think you are a sup4 l33t h4x0r gamer that can finish hundreds of games in one week, then you should try Lineage2.................or maybe FFXI (but L2 is more difficult)
Honestly, to anyone that hasnt played WOW, dont listen to people in this thread, half of them are exxagerating or just misleading completely to put WOW down. Heres the truth:
1) Tradeskills - Tradeskills are very easy up until about after journeyman(around the 200~ mark). At that point alot of the rarer resources kick in, and your going to have to get lucky at the AH, or go out yourself and find alot of the components. Even then there are alot more recipes your going to have to find from drops, which is what creates the 'uniqueness' among crafters so everyone isnt making the same stuff and competing against one another. That only happens at the lower skill levels where pretty much everyone can get mass quanitities of the materials they need easily, but at higher lvls this isnt the case. I have personal experience with tailoring, leatherworking, and Alchemy to testify to this being true, the problem is half these people havent gotten too far and assume its all as easy as the start.
2) Leveling - Despite what you heard, most people cant level to 60 in a week, 2 weeks, or even a month. If your a loser like they are w/ no life and just play WOW 24/7 then you might be able to do it, even then i'd figure they'd have to sleep in between their powerlvling, so i still find it hard that they can accomplish that. These people also arent probably doing any professions or exploring the world, but rather just grinding to the top. This is one of the biggest misconceptions about WOW, since alot of people listen to the haters exxagerate their criticisms of WOW, or listen to the hardcore powergaming PvP that just grinded their way to 60 to get to the PvP but didnt do much else. There are many reasons to explain why one player may have gotten to 60 much faster than everyone else for any game, but trust me when i say the average player or the masses will take much longer than most of the examples given to get to 60. Dont listen to people that use the exceptions to exxagerate the norm.
3) WOW is nothing like CoH. CoH is shallow, its exclusively a fighting only game, you login and you kill thugs, you cant do much else but that. WOW is an mmorpg, where there are many things to do, in fact moreso than alot of other mmorpg's out there. The comparisons between WOW and CoH are way off, and so exxagerated that anyone believing these people deserve to be under their false impressions. WOW will not die out in a year, thats what the haters want you to believe so you'll go try the low pop game they enjoy instead of the one where most people are saying is a great game. Blizzard is the top gaming company in the industry bar none, anyone that knows games will tell you this. Blizzard will not be losing out to the 'next great thing' hype, dont fall for the DarknLight fanboys which is just like the way overrated Guildwars hype. I swear you get some of the worst advice on games in this forum.
Bottomline is alot of people are envious of success, and its no different when it comes to games those people dont play, so they make them out to be much worse than they are with exxagerations or just misinformation. I'd caution anyone who takes what some people say here literally, especially some of their criticisms of WOW despite the rave reviews its getting officially and unofficially, to at least try it before taking a 'haters' point of view on the game. Many havent even played it, others have barely played it like the guy who reached lvl 17 and said he explored 45% of the world which i find hard to believe since he'd be dying left and right due to aggro unless hes just taking the dirt road from town to town which means he hasnt even seen most of the areas. Theres just alot of misinformation/exxagerations being spouted to criticize WOW here, and that mostly comes from people who are envious of success. I'm not saying WOW is perfect, the endgame PvP isnt complete and is pointless, but to criticize WOW for what some people are criticizing it for shows how much misinformation is being floated out there on this forum about the game. The problem is this forum is filled with small-game lovers where the envy 'hating' factor is like ten-fold.
If by march WoW still have 250k+ subscriptions, I will be surprised.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Lugnard Since when did less time = easy? Seriously get your heads out of that warped SOE mindset. Grind =/= Difficulty. In terms of overall gameplay difficulty, WoW is probably on par with most MMORPGs and perhaps even more difficult than most due to the crazy high aggressiveness in the higher levels.
If you can breeze through the game with little challenge in a short time, the game is too easy.
If everyone can craft to top levels, the game is too easy.
What part of that you don't understand. Sure the game can be "hard" for the retarded, or the casual gamer who plays very little. But he is talking about a hardcore gamer, who puts in lots of time behind the keyboard. If you can race to the top in no time the game is too easy. Game to easy, game gets boring very fast, no matter how great the game is.
Remember when Guild Wars had that open beta, posters here where going crazy for it. Yet later on they got bored of it. You take away the time sinks and grind of MMGs then you take its life away. Might as well but WoW on a console game then because it plays like one.
There is a thing called expansions guys....you all are worried about hitting the level cap so fast but the cap will be raised numerous times with more then one expansion im sure.... Not only that but end game content along with other things to keep you busy ... like new places and land to explore will also be added.....
You can hit the level cap right now on EQ2 in less then 2 months of casual playing but its no big deal there either because they all know there will be tons of new content.....why do you people think there wont be for WoW?
Originally posted by Lugnard Since when did less time = easy? Seriously get your heads out of that warped SOE mindset. Grind =/= Difficulty. In terms of overall gameplay difficulty, WoW is probably on par with most MMORPGs and perhaps even more difficult than most due to the crazy high aggressiveness in the higher levels.
If you can breeze through the game with little challenge in a short time, the game is too easy.
If everyone can craft to top levels, the game is too easy.
What part of that you don't understand. Sure the game can be "hard" for the retarded, or the casual gamer who plays very little. But he is talking about a hardcore gamer, who puts in lots of time behind the keyboard. If you can race to the top in no time the game is too easy. Game to easy, game gets boring very fast, no matter how great the game is.
Remember when Guild Wars had that open beta, posters here where going crazy for it. Yet later on they got bored of it. You take away the time sinks and grind of MMGs then you take its life away. Might as well but WoW on a console game then because it plays like one.
your an idiot. Why are there so many people here who dont know a thing about the game they pretend to talk about?
I bet there isnt a max lvl crafter in WoW on this forum, and i'm betting there arent too many max lvl crafters in the game. You do realize Guildwars was just a world premiere event, even then its not even much of a mmorpg. Nobody got bored of it since it didnt even release yet, some people realized just how overhyped it was, just liike DarknLight is here by a handful of people, probably the same handful of people that hyped up Guildwars.
They really need to put a tag under your name that says 'clueless'
It is a good game with nice graphics. Can be free or you can deposit money into the game whenever you like ( $1USD = 10 project entropia dollars). Not impossible to play for free but damn hard. It is a hard game but many of the skilled players profit.
your an idiot. Why are there so many people here who dont know a thing about the game they pretend to talk about?
I bet there isnt a max lvl crafter in WoW on this forum, and i'm betting there arent too many max lvl crafters in the game. You do realize Guildwars was just a world premiere event, even then its not even much of a mmorpg. Nobody got bored of it since it didnt even release yet, some people realized just how overhyped it was, just liike DarknLight is here by a handful of people, probably the same handful of people that hyped up Guildwars.
They really need to put a tag under your name that says 'clueless'
Sorry but you are looking at a max crafter from WoW... And crafting is very easy in WoW. You get plenty of stuff while leveling (that is needed) for crafting and if not you could always buy it from auction house. All it takes is for you to level (cause craft level upgrades require a certain level as well) and get plenty of stuff. It's just that craft stuff is more of a backup replacement item (in most cases) then a real WOW ROCKZ gear. So far the only very nice items are the ones at 300 skill (and 300 is max). For instance I can make a mooncloth boots that takes 4 mooncloth. I have to wait 16 days if I do it solo to make it (1 mooncloth requires 2 felcloth to make and a special moonwell and has a 4 day cooldown timer to make again). Probably did that to avoid monopoly sales or whatever... Some insider view on crafting in WoW
But I do find WoW way too easy for hardcore people. And I'll expect the first quitters soon already as the PvP system ain't in yet (Battlegrounds, Hero system etc.) Not because they don't like it but because they are too anxious to wait.
I posted in my review of WoW that I didn't think the game was for "hard-core" gamers, let me explain my reasoning.
The game gives you everything you need to play. The quests are short simple,and the directions are pretty much straighfoward. There is no "deciphering" who or what to kill to complete the quest, heck they even tell you where to go.
Loot: no twinking your character. They pretty much "give" you level appropriate equipment as you progress through the game. Granted, there are those "special, desirable" items, but truth is, they are only slightly better than the normal gear.
Tradeskills: click on your "find" button and your supplies pop up on your mini screen. go mine it, then go to your tradeskills and click on your make button and viola, you've crafted an item. How much easier could they make it?
all that being said, I love the game. Of course I am a casual player.
Originally posted by rohbshop your an idiot. Why are there so many people here who dont know a thing about the game they pretend to talk about? I bet there isnt a max lvl crafter in WoW on this forum, and i'm betting there arent too many max lvl crafters in the game. You do realize Guildwars was just a world premiere event, even then its not even much of a mmorpg. Nobody got bored of it since it didnt even release yet, some people realized just how overhyped it was, just liike DarknLight is here by a handful of people, probably the same handful of people that hyped up Guildwars. They really need to put a tag under your name that says 'clueless'
Sorry but you are looking at a max crafter from WoW... And crafting is very easy in WoW. You get plenty of stuff while leveling (that is needed) for crafting and if not you could always buy it from auction house. All it takes is for you to level (cause craft level upgrades require a certain level as well) and get plenty of stuff. It's just that craft stuff is more of a backup replacement item (in most cases) then a real WOW ROCKZ gear. So far the only very nice items are the ones at 300 skill (and 300 is max). For instance I can make a mooncloth boots that takes 4 mooncloth. I have to wait 16 days if I do it solo to make it (1 mooncloth requires 2 felcloth to make and a special moonwell and has a 4 day cooldown timer to make again). Probably did that to avoid monopoly sales or whatever... Some insider view on crafting in WoW
But I do find WoW way too easy for hardcore people. And I'll expect the first quitters soon already as the PvP system ain't in yet (Battlegrounds, Hero system etc.) Not because they don't like it but because they are too anxious to wait.
well speaking from a tailoring, alchemy, and leatherworking point of view, i dont think its as easy as your making out to gain skills at higher lvls. Maybe i'm going about it wrong, since many of the components i need arent at the auctioin house and not easily available. Maybe i need to find some dropped formulas that have easier recipes, not sure. I do know going into elemental leatherworking is a major pain. I just dont see many max'd crafters, but maybe i'm not looking hard enough.
If you consider just grinding to 60 as "beating" the game then WoW is easy.
I consider myself a hardcore gamer and I am finding WoW challenging, because I am demanding everything out of the game. I am doing every quest, reading every book, getting every spell, talking to most of the NPC's, doing 5 tradeskills, trading in IF, finding every region of every zone, and exploring every single cave, oriface and building in the game.
If I were to just grind nonstop, I would be 60 in like a month, but then I would have 8 character classes and 8 races to take to 60, each with their own quests and their own backstory, and their own tactics and "template" to understand and master.
If you think WoW has no challenge, then you probably just took 1 alliance character to 60 and stopped.
Try jumping on a PvP server as a Horde character sometime, or even on the PvE server, cuz everything is harder as Horde. There's no Paladin class with 5 lives that you just keep healing yourself and escape. Also not easy is taking a tank character to 60, and then rolling a cleric or a caster, your tactics suddenly make a complete 180 degree turn.
Playing a Gnomish Mage with Engineering and Mining is a COMPLETE night and day experience compared to rolling an Undead Rogue who specializes in poison. The gameplay is %100 different.
I am sure this is the case with each class and most of the professions.
My plans at the moment are to have a server full of Alliance toons to 60, and then concentrate on the Horde side on another server, prolly PvP.
The grinding goodness is there if you want it, but I like challenges so I'm taking the long way.
Every single day in WoW feels like an adventure, and I dont see it stopping anytime soon.
Originally posted by Laibeus_Lord it's an easy game. just the open beta alone i was able to level up to 17 and explore 45% of the world map and that was less than a week of playing. also led raids in the horde towns and all that and vice versa (defended). now p2p, i still play, now explored 69% of the world map (incl. dungeons) but I'm not that regular playing the game. Once I roam the whole map and unlock every flight path there is, there's nothing more for me to do. I don't give a damn with the items, it's too easy well just easy to get. instanced dungeons are great as well. raid group and all that combined, guild, and stuff, the game is beatable in a few days or weeks.----------------- http://Holy-Order.org (Holy Order of the Light) http://PhilGaming.Com (Philippine Gaming Community) http://boards.Laibcoms.com
LOL level 17, and 45% of the world map, no way. I've had a 44 and 40 in retail and I haven't seen A LOT of stuff. Beatable in a few days or weeks? Wrong.
lvl grind in EQ2? pfft its not bad I can get a lvl+ in a given day in the mid 30s with ease in a good group. I suppose if you spend your time grouping with idiots and are constantly in exp debt then yea the grind is bad, Idiot filter, my only complaint is I have to share debt when another person dies..that is kinda stupid, which is why I do this lovely thing called Perma party..screw pickup groups of random people. If you think the level grind in EQ2 is bad you apparently never saw the atocity they called Lineage 2, not only was the game play atorcious but you basically could forget getting any reasonable level without botting or spending ungodly amounts of time online, that was a sad sad day for gamers.
Wow is a good game, alot of flaws..hardly a well thought out mmorpg though. Sorry its going to lose its replayability after 3 months tops, I already know of players dropping like crazy, got to 60 now are bored. I played it all thorough beta, I have been beta testing games since Meridian 59 and i knew before beta ended that Wow for someone like me who looks for a game to last more then 3 months that wow was not it. Wow Is more of a persistant RPG then mmorpg as far as its gameplay goes.
Originally posted by Dekoth Wow is a casual gamers game..period lvl grind in EQ2? pfft its not bad I can get a lvl+ in a given day in the mid 30s with ease in a good group. I suppose if you spend your time grouping with idiots and are constantly in exp debt then yea the grind is bad, Idiot filter, my only complaint is I have to share debt when another person dies..that is kinda stupid, which is why I do this lovely thing called Perma party..screw pickup groups of random people. If you think the level grind in EQ2 is bad you apparently never saw the atocity they called Lineage 2, not only was the game play atorcious but you basically could forget getting any reasonable level without botting or spending ungodly amounts of time online, that was a sad sad day for gamers. Wow is a good game, alot of flaws..hardly a well thought out mmorpg though. Sorry its going to lose its replayability after 3 months tops, I already know of players dropping like crazy, got to 60 now are bored. I played it all thorough beta, I have been beta testing games since Meridian 59 and i knew before beta ended that Wow for someone like me who looks for a game to last more then 3 months that wow was not it. Wow Is more of a persistant RPG then mmorpg as far as its gameplay goes.
I dont understand your mentality. You blame everyone that doesnt have a set group of friends to lvl them for having a hard time in EQ2? You blame everyone that doesnt play under the ideal scenario? You do realize there are all types of gamers out there that dont play w/ a set group of friends, that may enjoy soloing, and not everyone has the same people they play with everyday the same time they login, if anything your the exception, not the norm. And to blame people for that and not loving EQ2 because they dont play under the ideal scenario is just ignorant. In fact its funny that people have to fit in that small box of type of gamer to enjoy that game.
Furthermore, i find it laughable that your going to specifically mention your gaming history, talking about how you look for value/replayability, then criticize WOW for it while championing EQ2. You do realize EQ2 is the least replayable MMORPG to ever come out, right? You can only play it twice before your repeating the same exact progression of quests over again. Your only given 4 character slots. Debate this or tell me how i'm wrong here, WOW is like 10x's more replayable than EQ2. How can you not see this if you've played both?
I thought "hardcore" meant you didn't ever log out of the game. Maybe it means you like to PK everyone you come across? Oh wait, it means your rude to newbes. No, maybe that you play smarter and therefor level quicker than many players? Or does it mean... Who can tell, it means less than a "Live" performance by Ashlee Simpson.
But thanks for clearing up that hardcore really means, that if the game isn't painful and repetitive means it's not fun.
What is it that you expect out of a game? Endless content forever and forever just 5 weeks after it's released? Where you disappointed that the "Neverending story" had an end? What bizarre expectations we've placed on a game when you get to max level without wanting to gouge out your eyes to ice pick.
If you enjoy the grind, EQ still running. Enjoy yourself.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
If you think you level too fast, just go get some sleep. WoW is made for players who enjoy to have fun without playing 15 hours a day. WoW is made for players that have a real life.
I had two level 60 chars in L2, and it wasn't fun to see how you wasted 1 week of xping because you died 20 times in a pvp battle.
Players who play MMORPG think this way "i have to work hard to get max level and gear and only then i will have fun pvping". So why not let players work less and have more fun ?
Theres no fun leveling in L2, trust me. I just played it because I enjoyed to make fun of ebayers.
No, I think WoW is too easy because mobs go down with so little strategy.
Then again, that's the same in every MMORPG. The only MMORPG where I got a decent challenge out of fighting in a group, where you had to be in formation and be tactical, was Final Fantasy XI. The combat was great, too bad the rest of the game sucked arse.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
What strategy is in EQ1 & 2 ? What strategy is in L2 ?
Oh wait, i just saw your second pharagraph.
WoW let you do what you can do in EQ, L2 and other mmorpgs, but with not so much time lost.
Also i picked WoW 60% because of its support and not about the game itself. Im tired of of bad support.
I know that Blizzard will work their ass off to improve that game. REMEMBER that they are the only company who ran game servers and provided support FOR FREE to games released many many years ago.
If they did a great job for FREE, what can you expect now when they get payed ?
Each game serves its own purpose. If you want a game where you can level fast with pretty much no need for a group then this game seems to be it. Most people can max level playing casually in a couple of months.
Now here is the question, what then? I think that is where the issue is at. For those that want to concentrate on the 'end game' - the battlegrounds when and if they get added then this is fine. They can log in and go do that.
But what about others? What are they supposed to do? Start another character and quickly level? Maybe.
For a lot of people, at least the ones I know, an mmorpg is a time sink. It is a way to spend time with people while doing something from the comfort of your computer. It is meant to be a challenge. You are meant to spend a few hours every day or every couple of days grouping, killing, questing, raiding, etc. This is why Everquest is so popular. They made it very hard for people and they could get in the game, into the guilds, socialize, gossip, and waste years of their life leveling up characters just to level up another one.
I do not think it is too easy or hard for a hardcore gamer. I think it all just depends on what you want out of the game. For those that think it is too quick then another game would probably better meet your needs - DAOC anyone? For those of you who find leveling almost pointless and just want to do PvP then this game - or Halo2 - is probably the game for you.
Those who are interested in the PvP aspect, they won't really know if they love or hate the game until the battleground system is in. Depending on that, I think a large amount of the current fan base will be either very happy or very upset. Well I can say unless a miracle is done in 6 months those players are going to be upset because balance in PvP is something that when one person is happy, another isn't and soon as you make a change you piss off someone else.
I hope Blizzard is perpared for all of the complaints to come in the next months
Ya well, most players play grinding games because they don't have a real life, and they want to have in a game what they can't have in a real life. I played L2 for 8 months, i didn't had a life in this time, and it wasn't fun at all. no more !
If there is something bad in WoW, Im sure that blizzard will change it asap, so i dont worry about
Comments
If you think that grinding countless hours and farming lots of money is hardcore and fun, then you shoudl play Final Fantasy XI or Lineage 2
Well not even EQ harcores couldnt stand Lineage 2
So if you think you are a sup4 l33t h4x0r gamer that can finish hundreds of games in one week, then you should try Lineage2.................or maybe FFXI (but L2 is more difficult)
Honestly, to anyone that hasnt played WOW, dont listen to people in this thread, half of them are exxagerating or just misleading completely to put WOW down. Heres the truth:
1) Tradeskills - Tradeskills are very easy up until about after journeyman(around the 200~ mark). At that point alot of the rarer resources kick in, and your going to have to get lucky at the AH, or go out yourself and find alot of the components. Even then there are alot more recipes your going to have to find from drops, which is what creates the 'uniqueness' among crafters so everyone isnt making the same stuff and competing against one another. That only happens at the lower skill levels where pretty much everyone can get mass quanitities of the materials they need easily, but at higher lvls this isnt the case. I have personal experience with tailoring, leatherworking, and Alchemy to testify to this being true, the problem is half these people havent gotten too far and assume its all as easy as the start.
2) Leveling - Despite what you heard, most people cant level to 60 in a week, 2 weeks, or even a month. If your a loser like they are w/ no life and just play WOW 24/7 then you might be able to do it, even then i'd figure they'd have to sleep in between their powerlvling, so i still find it hard that they can accomplish that. These people also arent probably doing any professions or exploring the world, but rather just grinding to the top. This is one of the biggest misconceptions about WOW, since alot of people listen to the haters exxagerate their criticisms of WOW, or listen to the hardcore powergaming PvP that just grinded their way to 60 to get to the PvP but didnt do much else. There are many reasons to explain why one player may have gotten to 60 much faster than everyone else for any game, but trust me when i say the average player or the masses will take much longer than most of the examples given to get to 60. Dont listen to people that use the exceptions to exxagerate the norm.
3) WOW is nothing like CoH. CoH is shallow, its exclusively a fighting only game, you login and you kill thugs, you cant do much else but that. WOW is an mmorpg, where there are many things to do, in fact moreso than alot of other mmorpg's out there. The comparisons between WOW and CoH are way off, and so exxagerated that anyone believing these people deserve to be under their false impressions. WOW will not die out in a year, thats what the haters want you to believe so you'll go try the low pop game they enjoy instead of the one where most people are saying is a great game. Blizzard is the top gaming company in the industry bar none, anyone that knows games will tell you this. Blizzard will not be losing out to the 'next great thing' hype, dont fall for the DarknLight fanboys which is just like the way overrated Guildwars hype. I swear you get some of the worst advice on games in this forum.
Bottomline is alot of people are envious of success, and its no different when it comes to games those people dont play, so they make them out to be much worse than they are with exxagerations or just misinformation. I'd caution anyone who takes what some people say here literally, especially some of their criticisms of WOW despite the rave reviews its getting officially and unofficially, to at least try it before taking a 'haters' point of view on the game. Many havent even played it, others have barely played it like the guy who reached lvl 17 and said he explored 45% of the world which i find hard to believe since he'd be dying left and right due to aggro unless hes just taking the dirt road from town to town which means he hasnt even seen most of the areas. Theres just alot of misinformation/exxagerations being spouted to criticize WOW here, and that mostly comes from people who are envious of success. I'm not saying WOW is perfect, the endgame PvP isnt complete and is pointless, but to criticize WOW for what some people are criticizing it for shows how much misinformation is being floated out there on this forum about the game. The problem is this forum is filled with small-game lovers where the envy 'hating' factor is like ten-fold.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If you can breeze through the game with little challenge in a short time, the game is too easy.
If everyone can craft to top levels, the game is too easy.
What part of that you don't understand. Sure the game can be "hard" for the retarded, or the casual gamer who plays very little. But he is talking about a hardcore gamer, who puts in lots of time behind the keyboard. If you can race to the top in no time the game is too easy. Game to easy, game gets boring very fast, no matter how great the game is.
Remember when Guild Wars had that open beta, posters here where going crazy for it. Yet later on they got bored of it. You take away the time sinks and grind of MMGs then you take its life away. Might as well but WoW on a console game then because it plays like one.
There is a thing called expansions guys....you all are worried about hitting the level cap so fast but the cap will be raised numerous times with more then one expansion im sure.... Not only that but end game content along with other things to keep you busy ... like new places and land to explore will also be added.....
You can hit the level cap right now on EQ2 in less then 2 months of casual playing but its no big deal there either because they all know there will be tons of new content.....why do you people think there wont be for WoW?
---------------------------Desolation Guild WebSite-----------------------------
MMORPG's I Have Played:
__________________________
Everquest - 61 Gnome Warrior
FFXI - 56 Taru Warrior
Asheron's Call 2
Lineage 2 - 38 Orc Monk
Saga of Ryzom
---------------------------Desolation Guild WebSite-----------------------------
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2x 2 Tb Hard Drives
If you can breeze through the game with little challenge in a short time, the game is too easy.
If everyone can craft to top levels, the game is too easy.
What part of that you don't understand. Sure the game can be "hard" for the retarded, or the casual gamer who plays very little. But he is talking about a hardcore gamer, who puts in lots of time behind the keyboard. If you can race to the top in no time the game is too easy. Game to easy, game gets boring very fast, no matter how great the game is.
Remember when Guild Wars had that open beta, posters here where going crazy for it. Yet later on they got bored of it. You take away the time sinks and grind of MMGs then you take its life away. Might as well but WoW on a console game then because it plays like one.
your an idiot. Why are there so many people here who dont know a thing about the game they pretend to talk about?
I bet there isnt a max lvl crafter in WoW on this forum, and i'm betting there arent too many max lvl crafters in the game. You do realize Guildwars was just a world premiere event, even then its not even much of a mmorpg. Nobody got bored of it since it didnt even release yet, some people realized just how overhyped it was, just liike DarknLight is here by a handful of people, probably the same handful of people that hyped up Guildwars.
They really need to put a tag under your name that says 'clueless'
www.projectentropia.com
It is a good game with nice graphics. Can be free or you can deposit money into the game whenever you like ( $1USD = 10 project entropia dollars). Not impossible to play for free but damn hard. It is a hard game but many of the skilled players profit.
Sorry but you are looking at a max crafter from WoW... And crafting is very easy in WoW. You get plenty of stuff while leveling (that is needed) for crafting and if not you could always buy it from auction house. All it takes is for you to level (cause craft level upgrades require a certain level as well) and get plenty of stuff. It's just that craft stuff is more of a backup replacement item (in most cases) then a real WOW ROCKZ gear. So far the only very nice items are the ones at 300 skill (and 300 is max). For instance I can make a mooncloth boots that takes 4 mooncloth. I have to wait 16 days if I do it solo to make it (1 mooncloth requires 2 felcloth to make and a special moonwell and has a 4 day cooldown timer to make again). Probably did that to avoid monopoly sales or whatever... Some insider view on crafting in WoW
But I do find WoW way too easy for hardcore people. And I'll expect the first quitters soon already as the PvP system ain't in yet (Battlegrounds, Hero system etc.) Not because they don't like it but because they are too anxious to wait.
I posted in my review of WoW that I didn't think the game was for "hard-core" gamers, let me explain my reasoning.
The game gives you everything you need to play. The quests are short simple,and the directions are pretty much straighfoward. There is no "deciphering" who or what to kill to complete the quest, heck they even tell you where to go.
Loot: no twinking your character. They pretty much "give" you level appropriate equipment as you progress through the game. Granted, there are those "special, desirable" items, but truth is, they are only slightly better than the normal gear.
Tradeskills: click on your "find" button and your supplies pop up on your mini screen. go mine it, then go to your tradeskills and click on your make button and viola, you've crafted an item. How much easier could they make it?
all that being said, I love the game. Of course I am a casual player.
Sorry but you are looking at a max crafter from WoW... And crafting is very easy in WoW. You get plenty of stuff while leveling (that is needed) for crafting and if not you could always buy it from auction house. All it takes is for you to level (cause craft level upgrades require a certain level as well) and get plenty of stuff. It's just that craft stuff is more of a backup replacement item (in most cases) then a real WOW ROCKZ gear. So far the only very nice items are the ones at 300 skill (and 300 is max). For instance I can make a mooncloth boots that takes 4 mooncloth. I have to wait 16 days if I do it solo to make it (1 mooncloth requires 2 felcloth to make and a special moonwell and has a 4 day cooldown timer to make again). Probably did that to avoid monopoly sales or whatever... Some insider view on crafting in WoW
But I do find WoW way too easy for hardcore people. And I'll expect the first quitters soon already as the PvP system ain't in yet (Battlegrounds, Hero system etc.) Not because they don't like it but because they are too anxious to wait.
well speaking from a tailoring, alchemy, and leatherworking point of view, i dont think its as easy as your making out to gain skills at higher lvls. Maybe i'm going about it wrong, since many of the components i need arent at the auctioin house and not easily available. Maybe i need to find some dropped formulas that have easier recipes, not sure. I do know going into elemental leatherworking is a major pain. I just dont see many max'd crafters, but maybe i'm not looking hard enough.
Depends what your standards are.
If you consider just grinding to 60 as "beating" the game then WoW is easy.
I consider myself a hardcore gamer and I am finding WoW challenging, because I am demanding everything out of the game. I am doing every quest, reading every book, getting every spell, talking to most of the NPC's, doing 5 tradeskills, trading in IF, finding every region of every zone, and exploring every single cave, oriface and building in the game.
If I were to just grind nonstop, I would be 60 in like a month, but then I would have 8 character classes and 8 races to take to 60, each with their own quests and their own backstory, and their own tactics and "template" to understand and master.
If you think WoW has no challenge, then you probably just took 1 alliance character to 60 and stopped.
Try jumping on a PvP server as a Horde character sometime, or even on the PvE server, cuz everything is harder as Horde. There's no Paladin class with 5 lives that you just keep healing yourself and escape. Also not easy is taking a tank character to 60, and then rolling a cleric or a caster, your tactics suddenly make a complete 180 degree turn.
Playing a Gnomish Mage with Engineering and Mining is a COMPLETE night and day experience compared to rolling an Undead Rogue who specializes in poison. The gameplay is %100 different.
I am sure this is the case with each class and most of the professions.
My plans at the moment are to have a server full of Alliance toons to 60, and then concentrate on the Horde side on another server, prolly PvP.
The grinding goodness is there if you want it, but I like challenges so I'm taking the long way.
Every single day in WoW feels like an adventure, and I dont see it stopping anytime soon.
LOL level 17, and 45% of the world map, no way. I've had a 44 and 40 in retail and I haven't seen A LOT of stuff. Beatable in a few days or weeks? Wrong.
Adinion
[NonFactor]
I am a proud Blizzard Fanboy
Wow is a casual gamers game..period
lvl grind in EQ2? pfft its not bad I can get a lvl+ in a given day in the mid 30s with ease in a good group. I suppose if you spend your time grouping with idiots and are constantly in exp debt then yea the grind is bad, Idiot filter, my only complaint is I have to share debt when another person dies..that is kinda stupid, which is why I do this lovely thing called Perma party..screw pickup groups of random people. If you think the level grind in EQ2 is bad you apparently never saw the atocity they called Lineage 2, not only was the game play atorcious but you basically could forget getting any reasonable level without botting or spending ungodly amounts of time online, that was a sad sad day for gamers.
Wow is a good game, alot of flaws..hardly a well thought out mmorpg though. Sorry its going to lose its replayability after 3 months tops, I already know of players dropping like crazy, got to 60 now are bored. I played it all thorough beta, I have been beta testing games since Meridian 59 and i knew before beta ended that Wow for someone like me who looks for a game to last more then 3 months that wow was not it. Wow Is more of a persistant RPG then mmorpg as far as its gameplay goes.
I dont understand your mentality. You blame everyone that doesnt have a set group of friends to lvl them for having a hard time in EQ2? You blame everyone that doesnt play under the ideal scenario? You do realize there are all types of gamers out there that dont play w/ a set group of friends, that may enjoy soloing, and not everyone has the same people they play with everyday the same time they login, if anything your the exception, not the norm. And to blame people for that and not loving EQ2 because they dont play under the ideal scenario is just ignorant. In fact its funny that people have to fit in that small box of type of gamer to enjoy that game.
Furthermore, i find it laughable that your going to specifically mention your gaming history, talking about how you look for value/replayability, then criticize WOW for it while championing EQ2. You do realize EQ2 is the least replayable MMORPG to ever come out, right? You can only play it twice before your repeating the same exact progression of quests over again. Your only given 4 character slots. Debate this or tell me how i'm wrong here, WOW is like 10x's more replayable than EQ2. How can you not see this if you've played both?
Ughhh
I thought "hardcore" meant you didn't ever log out of the game. Maybe it means you like to PK everyone you come across? Oh wait, it means your rude to newbes. No, maybe that you play smarter and therefor level quicker than many players? Or does it mean... Who can tell, it means less than a "Live" performance by Ashlee Simpson.
But thanks for clearing up that hardcore really means, that if the game isn't painful and repetitive means it's not fun.
What is it that you expect out of a game? Endless content forever and forever just 5 weeks after it's released? Where you disappointed that the "Neverending story" had an end? What bizarre expectations we've placed on a game when you get to max level without wanting to gouge out your eyes to ice pick.
If you enjoy the grind, EQ still running. Enjoy yourself.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
WoW is too easy because you level too fast ?
If you think you level too fast, just go get some sleep. WoW is made for players who enjoy to have fun without playing 15 hours a day. WoW is made for players that have a real life.
I had two level 60 chars in L2, and it wasn't fun to see how you wasted 1 week of xping because you died 20 times in a pvp battle.
Players who play MMORPG think this way "i have to work hard to get max level and gear and only then i will have fun pvping". So why not let players work less and have more fun ?
Theres no fun leveling in L2, trust me. I just played it because I enjoyed to make fun of ebayers.
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
No, I think WoW is too easy because mobs go down with so little strategy.
Then again, that's the same in every MMORPG. The only MMORPG where I got a decent challenge out of fighting in a group, where you had to be in formation and be tactical, was Final Fantasy XI. The combat was great, too bad the rest of the game sucked arse.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
What strategy is in EQ1 & 2 ? What strategy is in L2 ?
Oh wait, i just saw your second pharagraph.
WoW let you do what you can do in EQ, L2 and other mmorpgs, but with not so much time lost.
Also i picked WoW 60% because of its support and not about the game itself. Im tired of of bad support.
I know that Blizzard will work their ass off to improve that game. REMEMBER that they are the only company who ran game servers and provided support FOR FREE to games released many many years ago.
If they did a great job for FREE, what can you expect now when they get payed ?
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
Each game serves its own purpose. If you want a game where you can level fast with pretty much no need for a group then this game seems to be it. Most people can max level playing casually in a couple of months.
Now here is the question, what then? I think that is where the issue is at. For those that want to concentrate on the 'end game' - the battlegrounds when and if they get added then this is fine. They can log in and go do that.
But what about others? What are they supposed to do? Start another character and quickly level? Maybe.
For a lot of people, at least the ones I know, an mmorpg is a time sink. It is a way to spend time with people while doing something from the comfort of your computer. It is meant to be a challenge. You are meant to spend a few hours every day or every couple of days grouping, killing, questing, raiding, etc. This is why Everquest is so popular. They made it very hard for people and they could get in the game, into the guilds, socialize, gossip, and waste years of their life leveling up characters just to level up another one.
I do not think it is too easy or hard for a hardcore gamer. I think it all just depends on what you want out of the game. For those that think it is too quick then another game would probably better meet your needs - DAOC anyone? For those of you who find leveling almost pointless and just want to do PvP then this game - or Halo2 - is probably the game for you.
Those who are interested in the PvP aspect, they won't really know if they love or hate the game until the battleground system is in. Depending on that, I think a large amount of the current fan base will be either very happy or very upset. Well I can say unless a miracle is done in 6 months those players are going to be upset because balance in PvP is something that when one person is happy, another isn't and soon as you make a change you piss off someone else.
I hope Blizzard is perpared for all of the complaints to come in the next months
If there is something bad in WoW, Im sure that blizzard will change it asap, so i dont worry about
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%