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General: The Way Back Machine: My Ultimate MMORPG
Drew
Member Posts: 434
This week in The Way Back Machine, MMORPG.com's columnist Drew Wood takes a look back at Jeremy Star's Ultimate MMO article from July 19th of 2005. How much did Jeremy have right at the time, but how much of what he said can also be applied to today's marketplace?
Right now it is the age of the “next generation” MMORPG - or so we are told. Of course, from now until eternity it will, in fact, be the age of the next generation of our beloved games. There will always be newer, better games just over the horizon, taunting us with promises of better graphics, newer features, and more immersion than ever before.
Read more here.
Comments
Its sad to see that after five and a half years, nothing has changed in the world of MMORPG's. a few games have come and gone, players rant and rave about wow killers, and wow clones. And no developer seems to want to break the mold and advance the genre. They still seem content to sit there in their shells and churn out the same style of game over and over. Sure there ahve been little tweaks here and there, but really has anything changed?
Still in almost all mmo's limited charactarization.
Or kill 10x goblins
Or repeating quests over and over again
Or npc standing still forever with limited txt and movement.
Mobs static always spawn samw spot or waiting to be slauthred always same script.
And still many mmo's have no housing and ones who have is mainly pathtic.
Crafting is still boring and in most mmo's time sink.
No dynamic mobs or dynamic weather system.
Not much have chance in last 14 years im affraid:(
He scanned the future and saw shiny stars hehe well they have in my opinion not yet arrive and i dont see any soon comming.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I agree it's sad that it's all still going on. Though we are partially to blame since we keep buying them! O.O!
To be honest I think the future of the genre has to come from smaller companies who are willing to take chances. Now if only we get a chance to support them!
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby)
Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks
Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six.
Tried: Too many to list
Man, Meridian 59 had it all.
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"
Funny he uses Star Wars Galaxies as an example for a few things he likes and SOE trashed all of them!
I still don't get why everyone HAS to have a class/level system. Let me design my character with the skills I want! Everyone is excited about Rift, but come on, it has the silly class/level system everyone else has and the same lame combat. Might as well play Wow. Rift is an excellent example of a developer unwilling to break the Wow mold.
I always liked the design of AC1, they had levels, but the skill system was what determined the game play. AC1 also had a decent combat system very similar to what TERA is coming out with.
The really sad thing is there is NOTHING in the pipeline at all that comes even close to what the 2005 article discusses. Might just have to wait for CCP's World of Darkness and there is no guarentee that will do it.
before the year 2004/2005 the most mmorpgs provided us with some sort of nouvelle cuisine and only a small group of people were willing to spend time and work in these games. the examples every developer was looking on were such shiny games like f.e. ultima online and everquest. investors and game companies alike wanted that their next mmorpg had to be designed like them. they wanted a 4 star menue for the customers (longtivity, atmosphere, creativity and freedom), and then, then there came world of warcraft, the fast food restaurant, which got attention from a whole new group of people - the normal people from the street.
developers and especially the companies saw that it was possible to get a lot of normal people into mmorpgs and not only the 'freak' and/or 'gourment'. they saw the profit and they changed their strategy. and with this change they also targeted a complete other group of people. now the recipe of world of warcraft was the new example they wanted to cook in their kitchens. games in development had to rewritten, older games, like eqII got some patches and updates so it would feel more like wow. a lot of games after 2005 tasted like a version of 'world of mcdonalds', but none of them could challange them. also a lot of shusi-bars and korean fast food restaurant flooded the western hemisphere, coming with the 'all you can eat and pay nothing' illusion, fighting for every casual customer.
and today? well, we know that a lot of the fish on the all you can eat buffet of the asian restaurants smells and that a trout is still a trout doesn't matter if its served with french fries (amer.) or potato chips (brit.). we know that a cheeseburger from mcdonalds taste today as he tasted 6 years ago, but the people still like him and don't want any change. but we also know that not only the old players (before 2004) want back their nouvelle cuisine.
maybe it will take another 2 to 4 years before the companies will change their strategy again and start to deliver nouvelle cuisine. all we can do is wait and hope.
i usually read alot of these and never comment, but in regards to character custimization . . yeah . . the Free 2 Play MMO "Perfect World" for as many as at least 3 years or maybe longer depending on the which global version you play has had the nicest character customization available. it's only been since this game, i've seen any other game attempt to provide something better. And to be honest I don't think it's a priorty for 95% of game developers to really consider character customization yet. My view being based on body and facial features as opposed to only armors, weapons & skills.
sounds like the writer wants eve online.
charcter creation is now top of the industry
everything is player created, and valuable, even the lowest weapons are worth money
there isnt player houseing but if you are in a good alliance you can own space and build stations there.
combat isn't twitch based but it does take skill and is intense, esspeccially cause death is costly.
Funny how the review mentions SWG so many time, having just re-subbed to it I am considering another account.
Even though the NGE killed at lot of the fun, after indulging in Wurm, DFO, and many many others, I am drawn back to SWG's unique sandbox.
I just find it the most complete package.
I'm mostly with you, sort of not. I love customization, but if I don't have it, life goes on. It's a lovely perk when it's there, though. Crafting, blah...make it go away ;<
Auto-attack is irksome, yeah. I don't notice it for long, though. Normally it's only there in the beginning, but within time you're spamming your skills instead. If you're still auto-attacking though, there's a problem : I dislike games that do that, and it's a shame there are as many as there are. I would really like twitch combat, but with console control. You know games like Bayonetta, Dante's Inferno, God of War; it's twitch, but once you start attacking something your character subtley 'locks on' to it, even though its easy to jump around and switch targets on a whim. Something like that would be great.
The sword thing, I disagree with, though. Your mage can't swing a sword for the same reason a carpenter can't do open-heart surgery, I suspect. There are plenty of more 'open' games that do this well though, so I'm not saying it can never happen or that it shouldn't. But in cases where it doesn't, I think it's understandable.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I only want to say that a MMORPG with a manual Aim/FPS like control is a horror to me as it can never work in a mmo with a rpg system.
Its dumb to spend time and passion to level up a toon only to have lag negate any progress and even today the lag ranges from 50 to 500 ms i naverage in a single mmo and especially in a competitive game it makes any competition ridiculous - even more as this kind of control cries for exploiters to exploit it.
Aim is for shooters and shooters can be massive mulitplayer but never rpg!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I see nothing wrong with a mage that has slowly trained up his skills as a swordsman being able to utilize one in combat. Ok, if not a sword, then his trusty staff that can deal massive damage in real life. Customization of your toon initally is not a priority for me, but throughout the game, I would love chacnes to tweak him out little by little.
I miss my house in SWG on Rori. Just a nice out of the way place that was fun to assecorize. Mine was very utilitarian, though had a couple of beasts that I created guarding it from would be pests
.
what we need again, is a true sandbox that doesn't make things too difficult. In some ways, though I enjoyed it, EvE is a difficult game, especially to break into. You keep on hitting walls and have to way days/weeks/months to truly succeed at the next plateau. It needn't be a space mmo or whatever type of futuristic theme. As the above article, instead of a machine to make things for you, you "apprentice(s)" could do it for you. Maybe a little bit slower than you yourself could make it, but, for a little cash, and some time, it would be done while you were doing other things.
Why not create a game with it all?
The Sandnox Themepark
You have the option of joining one of the 3 nations vying for control over the explored lands. Each nation has missions and quests for you to do. Missions would be done similar to FFXI some you could so solo, others require groups. Completing missions gained you ranks of some sort in your nation allowing you to get some nice gear specific for that nation. Quests would be found in the captial and minor cities of that nation as well as out in the field raising fame. Fame would increase loot drops.
Joining one of the nations gave you classes to choose from, each having multiple paths to follow. As an example one could choose warrior and as you leveled up you could then choose to be more tank oriented or you could go the more damage oriented route maybe add a 3rd path that allows for a more middle ground style giving a little of both worlds.
You would advance your character by gaining experience points from killing foes, completing quests and missions.
Or you could choose the path of an independent that has no affiliation with any of the nations. These individuals have chosen to go out and make a name for themselves on there own accord. Instead of picking classes they use a skill system allowing them to combined different skills to create a unique character. Advancing there character is done through using said skills. Add in caps making it so that a custom template can not have more skills than that of a class from one of the nations.
Independents could not take on the missions that the nations provide but could however do quests like those aligned with a nation can. Instead of xp though they would recieve increased monetary rewards.
Balance would be hard to do but I do not believe it to be impossible (at least relatvie balance).
Gear on the other hand could be a problem but again I do not think it will be impossible. You could have it so that gear drops from mobs, chests and bosses would need to be appraised and the item becomes a usable item for whomever had it appraised (theres a gold sink opportunity right there :P). For classes it would become an item with stats and such related for that class. For the skill based char it would come with stats to complement there chosen skills. Have it somewhat randomnized so that there is potential to always get something better, by that I mean look at UO's armor and such. Finding a leather tunic with the perfect stats to fill holes left by the rest of your armor was a moment of glory in UO, finding a pair of pants that combined with the tunic well to let you trade out other pieces of your armor to better suit your template was a thing of beauty.
Allow for player homes. Independents could stake there claim relatively anywhere that wasn't under the control of the 3 nations, the nation aligned players could purchase a home in any area controlled by there nation (You could have different tiered homes based on fame ranging from 1 room cottage to mini castle.)
To make it so that independents and nationals could work together on missions you could make it so they could still recieve increased monetary gains instead of XP for completing the missions.
Endgame Focus
Endgame focus for me should not be single minded. You have PvE'rs, Raiders, PvP'rs and Large Scale PvP'rs.
Endgame for those interested in PvE.
Have an invading race that is trying to take over the world. Outposts across the world are keeping them at bay. These outposts would be attacked regularly giving players a commong PvE enemy to fight. Everyone that participates gets rewarded. Rewards could be a form of currency that can be traded in for some very pricey high end items ranging from gear to consumables to decorations and trophies for your house. Heck include mounts in the list.
Endgame for the Raiders.
These invaders have bases of operations. They have dungeons scattered about that raiders could infiltrate and decimate leading to some rare and rich rewards.
You can even have it so that on some level Raiders and PvE'rs are working together to some degree.
Lastly have a neutral city that acts as a base of operations for the united front trying to keep these invaders at bay. It could be sieged on the weekends. Important NPC's providing services could be kidnapped and taken to the dungeons of the invaders. Raiders would be needed to recover them, PvE'rs would be needed to keep them protected when they are in the city providing needed services such as repairs, transport, merchandise, etc.
PvE'rs and Raiders need each other to some extent with this type of setup.
Endgame PvP'rs
Arena's and such should be a given in this day and age. For individuals and for small groups. Wagers should be allowed as well. The rest is up for discussion.
Beyond that though there would be an area of unexplored land beyond the realms of the 3 nations and the independents. The badlands, this is the untamed wilds. Here there are towns full of thieves and thugs, the outcasts of society. No long arm of the law reaches these places. It is for the lawless and for those brave enough to try and bring order to the chaos. Safety on these roads and in these towns are not garunteed.
Endgame Large Scale PvP'rs.
A notable thing about the towns of the badlands is that each towns of ourcasts are each ruled by a clan that controls the clan city associated with it. Some will be more defensable than others. Each will offer something unique and resources nearby will vary. The town associated with the clan city will provided income and resources. Towns associated with a clan city can be raided to weaken a clans defenses, resources and hit them in there wallets. Laws can be set for the town by the clan leader (basically you can set them to attack everyone but clan members, clan memebers or allies, or be more neutral if you wish to be a trade city.
Control of said clan cities should provide some significant rewards to those that control it. Discounted prices from NPC merchants (Repairs, consumables, Mats, etc.) also some buffs and fast travel options should be available.
Combat Controls
Allow for the option of auto attack and assisted aim or Manual attack and Aim. The Manual attack and aim would have the potential to do a reasonable amount of more damage faster but comes with the caveeat they have more of a chance to miss. The auto attacker has less of a chance to miss but has a lower DPS potential. Balance would be a pain I think here as well.
In any case, this is just a convoluted mess of a sandbox themepark hybrid MMO concept lol. I do think it could work but it would take a great deal of work to make it do so imho. Not impossible but daunting. With a large team we might see it complete in a decade or so lol.
SWG is no longer a sandbox MMO, it now has a class/level system which precludes it from being considered a sandbox.
Yup.
Considering that SWG's current skill system is a carbon copy of WoW, down to the talents or expertise, it is nothing more than SWG-WoW themepark.
The few remaining sandbox elements in SWG do not make up for all the stuff that was taken out.
Er have you played it lately?
Im having loads more fun than I did in ANY of the mmo's I played recently.
It might not be like it was pre-NGE, but if you just play it, its a good title, as long as you get past all the sony hate for "ruining" it in the first place.
I mean lets face it, xsyzon is Wurm with animations, Earthrise is broke, Rift is WOW with prettier graphics. Gimme SWG any time.
Why change what rakes in the money? Companies want the $, not the players' opinion (only a small portion means something). WoW has been since its release - the prime formulae. Risking it all by challenging the standard doesn't bold well with positive net gain. It may seem like the majority of players are all hoping for that one or more MMO that breaks the mold but not many can actually leave their comfort zone permanently.
Not that I'm against having the "ultimate MMO", it just takes time for the industry to gradually grow and differ from the tried and tested. What we, as players ask for from the developers/companies may not seem like a lot (not that i know anything about programing) but having all these features fitted into one single MMO just seem like overloading on a system that is not quite mature enough to handle it all.
Make quests where you hug animals/ npcs.
Instead of collecting 10 items on the ground you litter 10 items on the ground.
2 of my best ideas for new and up coming MMORPG's since everyone else just bashes the current ideas. I thought Id toss mine out there.
Star Wars Galaxies remains (and probably always will remain) my greatest MMO experience. I spent four years literally building a community in that game with other people, many of which are still close friends to this day.
No other game has ever come close to offering as rich an experience.
Of course, it's not entirely fair to blame successive generations of games. I'm older, and my lifestyle has changed. But in the dozen or so games I've tried after SWG, nothing else ever offered the diversity and the opportunity to really build something with other people.
But then, unfortunately, SOE ballsed it all up, and we know what happened after that.
Vanguard had the potential to offer diversity and that 'virtual home-away-from-home', but it turned out to be a very pretty, but very blank, painting.
The fact that the article name is a reference to Mr. Peabody says enough for me.
"no dynamic weather system".
I remember for a while after launch there was some dynamic weather in EQ1. When I hunted baby mammoths in Everfrost there was the ever present danger of a white out snow. And what was more fun...often you could see the storm coming from eastern side of the zone. You couldn't see ten feet. Just a little thing but it added a ton to immersion, imo. Then they phased it out for some unknown reason.
I agree since that I haven't seen any mmo that has tried to have meaningful dynamic weather.
I guess if people complain about the weather, it goes away.
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
very well said. you hit the nail on the top.
i just cant believe, that they ever will go back to nouvelle cuisine. i myself criticized this type of food severely in these good old days. nevertheless, even people from the street are not as dumb as the devs and their mangaer believe. i am convinced, that there is a big market for better restaurants beyond fast food, even if without a starred chef.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
That chance is all around. There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of indie developers working on MMOs. Some just don't have a chance of making it because they are don't understand all that is required, or they don't have the funding for such a large undertaking. Others will come up with something new and bold and have the resources to pull it off. They just need the chance to prove their worth without being shot down from the start because they made it on a budget. Look beyond the low end graphics, or the combat system with a flaw or two, and you might find a diamond in the rough, just waiting for the funding to get an overhaul and become a polished gem.
Short answer? No.
I've beta tested about 7 or 8 "new" MMOs in the past 2 years. The overwhelming majority of those were Fantasy based, and pure WoW clones. Rift, the most recent one I beta'd, had a bit of expanded charcter development, the Bard soul was unique (from a WoW perspective), and the zone events (Rifts) were fun and different. But these are small changes. They all have small changes, but they're all WoW at their core.
Current exceptions (i.e. not WoW clones) that I've played are few and far between; Eve, City of Heroes, Star Trek Online, Champions Online. Of those, STO and CO lack depth.
The majority of MMO developers are still making 2nd Generation MMOs in 2011. What I consider a 2nd Gen MMO is one where the MMO trinity of meatshield, healer, DPS is required to do any real content. What i want to see is more 3rd Gen MMOs like Eve Online and City of Heroes.
I'd like to see an Ironic MMO.
Your first several quests gives you experience and items to learn how the arrow keys allow you to move, or WASD if that's how you choose to live your life.
Next, you learn what a sword is, how to hold said item, and how to tell the spikey end from the handle. Of course, with more experience and items.
Third, you learn about killing stuff and never find out why those ten rats you killed had 148 gold and a magic fire ring - it will for ever be a mystery.