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Run its Course

wysongwysong Member Posts: 13

First off, this isn't a troll post, I don't have anything negative to say about WoW. 

BUT...  I see a lot of posts regarding WoW falling apart, RIFT will be great, etc etc.

So I'll break it down from the perspective of someone that played WoW mid 2006 through mid 2010, and gave Cataclsym a shot.  Either I've changed, or WoW's changed t the point where we're no longer compatible, yet I really have nothing against the game; I like the direction of development Cataclsym is taking, even got to 85 - but the community is abhorrent. 

A lot of changes have contributed to this perspective, and a lot of folks have a firm grasp on what those changes are and why they've had such an effect that I won't go into them here.  The long and short of it is that I believe WoW is losing it's older players, yet gaining newer ones at a similar if not faster rate.  Think of it as a generational swap I guess.

I know for my part, I've seen my friendslist hemmorage over the last few months - to the point where only a few remain and they never seemed to log on.  The folks I've known IRL all share a similar sentiment and no longer play.

The purpose of this post is to encourage folks that share similar feelings about the game to just let it go.  It's been real, and it's been fun, but it's not real fun anymore - and that's ok.  There's no reason to rain on the parade of the folks that are new to the game (mostly younger folks), who may be easily influenced by a few negative comments.  It seems to me that a lot of the anger in the game and out, is from folks having trouble just letting it pass on to the new guard.

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Comments

  • spookydomspookydom Member UncommonPosts: 1,782

    image. I don't want to troll wow either, not going to. There is definatly something going on with the elder players leaving the game. Out of my real life freinds who play and have played since before b.c and my ingame  guild and freindlist totaling about 75-80 players. Only two are still playing. On the other side of the coin I do know or know of a lot of young people and gamers who have never played an mmorpg picking it up. Wow is not a mess or loosing subs and money hand over fist as some claim, it has just lost a lot of its old playerbase including me.

     

     

     

    *Edit* Agreed but missed the point of what the o.p is wanting from this thread. Rationalising things is part of letting go of anything though. Wow was a fun part of my life for a good run. Had some great times and will never forget it. Now it's time to trade her in for something young and sexy or older and more experianced;)

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    Originally posted by wysong

    First off, this isn't a troll post, I don't have anything negative to say about WoW. 

    BUT...  I see a lot of posts regarding WoW falling apart, RIFT will be great, etc etc.

    So I'll break it down from the perspective of someone that played WoW mid 2006 through mid 2010, and gave Cataclsym a shot.  Either I've changed, or WoW's changed t the point where we're no longer compatible, yet I really have nothing against the game; I like the direction of development Cataclsym is taking, even got to 85 - but the community is abhorrent. 

    A lot of changes have contributed to this perspective, and a lot of folks have a firm grasp on what those changes are and why they've had such an effect that I won't go into them here.  The long and short of it is that I believe WoW is losing it's older players, yet gaining newer ones at a similar if not faster rate.  Think of it as a generational swap I guess.

    I know for my part, I've seen my friendslist hemmorage over the last few months - to the point where only a few remain and they never seemed to log on.  The folks I've known IRL all share a similar sentiment and no longer play.

    The purpose of this post is to encourage folks that share similar feelings about the game to just let it go.  It's been real, and it's been fun, but it's not real fun anymore - and that's ok.  There's no reason to rain on the parade of the folks that are new to the game (mostly younger folks), who may be easily influenced by a few negative comments.  It seems to me that a lot of the anger in the game and out, is from folks having trouble just letting it pass on to the new guard.

     

    Playing a game for 4+ years I think you got what you could out of it. You answered it yourself, you have changed. At least, in 4 years time one would hope that you've changed. If not, then you're doing something wrong :p

    These elder/vet players weren't going to stick around forever. The simple fact that new people come in to replace the older ones lets you know that it's not run it's course.

  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 893

    What wow has done is re-invent its self within the confines of what it is, the game that was Vanilla was replaced by tbc, which was replaced by LK which was replaced by Cataclysm..  Each expansion was a reinvention of the game, for better or worse.

     

    Its also a  game which does not have a great deal of depth, sure it has quantity of content but not a great deal of depth hence the need for content patches that reinvent classes at a fundamental level, and the reimagining of the game with every expansion, it slows the decay of interest that invariably happens with every game.

     

    Wow is not dead, but like you said, its player base is changing, a lot of people who stuck with it for a long time want something new, new comers to the mmo genre like it for its accessability.

     

    Cataclysm is not the same game as Wow, TBC or WotLK though it shares a lot of the same traits, once you think of it this way, you can see a bit clearer what is happening.

     

    That said, with over 365 days /played on my rogue, and about 100 spread out over alts, I am finally done with it for good.  I am ready for pastures new like a lot of players currently its DCU as a holding mmo till Tor/Tera amaze and captivate me or fail and I find somewhere new by accident eventually.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,635

    Well, I do have a friend who recently discovered WoW in its current form and he's hooked.

    Other than that, It makes sense that people are leaving. I think very few people stay with any game indefinitely. Not always the case but oftentimes I see posts by people whow played "x" game for many years but eventually left.

    It speaks to the game that it can reinvent itself and attract new people.

  • Harbinger1975Harbinger1975 Member UncommonPosts: 244

    My personal experience with World of Warcraft:

    I remember when World of Warcraft came hot on the heels of Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne.  Back in 2004 (yes I was in the beta for it back then), it was so cool to consider playing one of the Night Elves, one of the Orcs, or Trolls.  And really, the game was a new style.  It rang with the Blizzard motto of: "No game comes out until we say its finished."  And it had the polish you would expect from a newly released MMORPG.  And the game was great back then.  You felt like part of the Warcraft universe.  People were polite, helpful.  I was on a Roleplay server so it was like really living in a breathing world of Warcraft.  Guilds were great.  Sure, you had one or two that were elitist but on the whole you were able to ignore them with no issue.  The community was something special.

    PvP was kept completely seperate from the PvE or RP servers.  That I at least remember.  Or you just never heard much about it.  You actually had to work and prove yourself.  And the bad players were completely ferretted out.  Again, the community held it together.

    Things started to change a bit with The Burning Crusade.  It wasn't bad at first.  But as time went on, the community we knew changed.  The whiners that griped about the unfairness I guess the word would be seemed to win out.  Now we had space goats and Horde mailbox dancers (Blood Elves).  The community became more crass and while still somewhat tolerable, started to show its ugly side.  The PvP'ers began to overtake the PvE'ers.  Skills changed, classes nerfed, roles lost, and entire classes being exluded regardless if you were good or not.  Everything became much more secular.

    Wrath of the Lich King arrives.  Leveling is sped up (I suppose I could see this.  There was quite a distance between start and end).  But it was no longer a game of skill.  it became a game of: Rush to the end and get l33t (*twitches*) as fast as you can.  The helpfulness was replaced by: L2P Fk'ing NOOB!  There was no sense of community and people in total became laxed players.  The entire gearscore dilemma became the be all and end all.  Min maxing was in full swing.  The game at this point had become fully secular.  Unless you knew someone, you were destined to never find a decent guild.  Or one that wasn't full of Elitist raiders. And I have no issue with those that like to raid...normally.

    When Cataclysm hit, I took a look at the game I onced loved.  I shook my head at how, to me, the game had degraded.  How the community was no longer a community but a group of "children" bashing and hating, making racial and obscene slurs to people they didn't even know.  The old servers that once were held in high regard were now laughable at best for what they had become.  The game had become something I despised.

    Last week I cancelled my two accounts.  It was a good run.  But no longer fun for me.  As you stated Wysong, Warcraft and I are no longer compatible.

    Rest well, my old friend Vanilla Warcraft. 

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  • ironhelixironhelix Member Posts: 448

    The first year of WoW was the most fun I have ever had in an online game. The random world PvP was aweseome, and the world seemed alive. I too came back for Cataclysm, after years of staying away. It's not the same, the magic is gone. It's more of a sport now than anything. 

  • wysongwysong Member Posts: 13

    So true Misles.

    Not to derail this into a discussion on the community, but a lot stems from the fact that people have a limited time to play, and ambitious goals for themselves in terms of gear and accomplishments.  The pressure to 'keep up' really started in TBC, where you didn't want to get stuck back on Kara when everyone else was in the SSC or BT.  

    So they've got a few hours to play, and they might be able to that extra heroic run in if noone slows them down by not being over geared.  They really need those last few JP to buy that thing and get it enchanted before the raid tomorrow night, and the wheel goes round.

    Some of my finest moments where just spent running around an exploring.  The little things, oddities that existed without a big neone sign telling everyone what they were - those were fun to find.  I've had similar experiences in Darkfall, but never stuck with it.

  • Harbinger1975Harbinger1975 Member UncommonPosts: 244

    In truth, it is damn near impossible nowadays to find a game that had the same.."sense of magic and wonder" that Warcraft had when it first came out.  The ORIGINAL Star Wars Galaxies had it.  And then lost it when the NGE came out.  I'm trying RIFT, but...it's a wait and see game.  For the most part I've been sticking to Single Player games until that "magic" is found again.

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  • TheFarseerTheFarseer Member Posts: 97

    Originally posted by misles

    In truth, it is damn near impossible nowadays to find a game that had the same.."sense of magic and wonder" that Warcraft had when it first came out.  The ORIGINAL Star Wars Galaxies had it.  And then lost it when the NGE came out.  I'm trying RIFT, but...it's a wait and see game.  For the most part I've been sticking to Single Player games until that "magic" is found again.

    This, to be honest. Finding that reference to Conan in the Badlands felt amazing, simply because there were so few players that knew about it etc.

    Also, does anyone have an up-to-date subscription chart on all the MMOs?

    EDIT: Doesn't matter, found one. I think they might be off a bit on subscriptions, though. They can't really say there's a drop, but I certainly think there is inbetween expansions.

  • Omega3Omega3 Member Posts: 398

    Most of the anger toward WoW is not based on the game (always changing) design, or what it gained and lost since Vanilla TBH.

    Players just cannot find any competitor with a similar lvl of polish and content, regardless of the design (pvp, pve, sim...)  and blame WoW for what other developpers are incapable of doing.

    My addiction History:
    >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
    >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
    >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    If one plays the same game over 4 years non-stop, then yes one would think you will get tired of it.

    It probably has 'run its course' for you.

    The big advantage however, is that for the general public; MMO = WoW.

    This is why Cata was such a brilliant move (business wise). Blizzard knows that WoW is the first MMO that people (general public) will try so they are doing everything they can to keep them.

    'only 30% get above lvl 10' - Blizz CEO

     

    One sad thing is that not many Ex-WoW players stay within the MMO genre.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • Castekin1000Castekin1000 Member Posts: 36

    Originally posted by wysong

    First off, this isn't a troll post, I don't have anything negative to say about WoW. 

    BUT...  I see a lot of posts regarding WoW falling apart, RIFT will be great, etc etc.


    Yes just like Vanguard was going to be great and kill wow, then Lotro then AOC, and then warhammer...oh warhammer was definitely going to be the end of wow.  All joining the ever growing list of failed mmos.  Enter the next victim err I mean wow killer, Rift. 


     


    I have got to admit, I am having a good laugh at some of the posts on this website atm its pure comedy gold.

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 376
    I suspect that the best years of WoW are behind it. It will go on for a very long time from now, but its on the decline (in my opinion.). I played since launch, and found it harder and harder to keep going. I quit in WOTLK for about 6 months, then came back for Cata, found it somewhat underwhelming and then pulled out again. Can't really see myself going back.

    I don't think there will be a WoW killer, other than age and a slow withering of blizz's dev money as they start transitioning to a new MMORPG project. People will move on and servers will merge, but it won't be due to a specific game.
  • Castekin1000Castekin1000 Member Posts: 36

    Originally posted by hayes303

    I suspect that the best years of WoW are behind it. It will go on for a very long time from now, but its on the decline (in my opinion.).

    Uh huh despite the fact that its last expansion just broke the world record for the fastest selling PC game ever.  Despite the fact that at last count it had over 12 million subscribers (that’s more than the population of some countries), which means it has more subscribers than ever. Despite the fact that not one single server has been merged yet.  When I log onto the wow euro servers during peak times I see very few low pop servers.


     


    But oh no some random person makes some unsubstantiated claim that the game is on decline so it must be.  People on this website have been saying this about wow since the BC.  If it gains a few more million subscribers hayes303 will you come and make a post about how wrong you were?........... I bet you won`t

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    Originally posted by Castekin1000

    Originally posted by hayes303

    I suspect that the best years of WoW are behind it. It will go on for a very long time from now, but its on the decline (in my opinion.).

    Uh huh despite the fact that its last expansion just broke the world record for the fastest selling PC game ever.  Despite the fact that at last count it had over 12 million subscribers (that’s more than the population of some countries), which means it has more subscribers than ever. Despite the fact that not one single server has been merged yet.  When I log onto the wow euro servers during peak times I see very few low pop servers.


     


    But oh no some random person makes some unsubstantiated claim that the game is on decline so it must be.  People on this website have been saying this about wow since the BC.  If it gains a few more million subscribers hayes303 will you come and make a post about how wrong you were?........... I bet you won`t

     

    Amen man. People seem to understand how big the universe you're dealing with in WoW is.

     

    You need to take into account that your friends list (all of what, 50 people?), and a handful of forum trolls (all of what, 50 maybe 100 to be generous) out of 12 million people, isn't that significant to indicate a decline. Especially when you consider the rate of new players...

  • garvin32garvin32 Member Posts: 160

    Originally posted by hayes303

    I suspect that the best years of WoW are behind it. It will go on for a very long time from now, but its on the decline (in my opinion.). I played since launch, and found it harder and harder to keep going. I quit in WOTLK for about 6 months, then came back for Cata, found it somewhat underwhelming and then pulled out again. Can't really see myself going back. I don't think there will be a WoW killer, other than age and a slow withering of blizz's dev money as they start transitioning to a new MMORPG project. People will move on and servers will merge, but it won't be due to a specific game.

    This.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706

    I'm tired of WoW myself, been playing on and off since sometime in 2005, the thing I like least about it is the community. I'm tired of modern MMOs in general I guess. I want to play SWTOR even thought it'll be a clone, mostly for the story.

  • marinridermarinrider Member UncommonPosts: 1,556

    Originally posted by TheFarseer

    Originally posted by misles

    In truth, it is damn near impossible nowadays to find a game that had the same.."sense of magic and wonder" that Warcraft had when it first came out.  The ORIGINAL Star Wars Galaxies had it.  And then lost it when the NGE came out.  I'm trying RIFT, but...it's a wait and see game.  For the most part I've been sticking to Single Player games until that "magic" is found again.

    This, to be honest. Finding that reference to Conan in the Badlands felt amazing, simply because there were so few players that knew about it etc.

    Also, does anyone have an up-to-date subscription chart on all the MMOs?

    EDIT: Doesn't matter, found one. I think they might be off a bit on subscriptions, though. They can't really say there's a drop, but I certainly think there is inbetween expansions.

    The WoW chart on that website has not been updated since somewhere around September/November.  So really, all that shows is the ramp up for launch, but nothing afterwards.  So for all we know it could be decreasing since the chart does not have that information.

  • Valgar1Valgar1 Member UncommonPosts: 324

    Sad part is i  been trying hard to get away from it,

    But nothing currently out holds my attention for more then a few days, then im back to WoW. I HOPE somone is making somthing i will play and stick with for a nice long while.

    image
  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    This exact same thread has been here for the last 5 years

     

    1. All of my friends have quit playing

    2.  XXXX is coming out soon, and so many people are talking about it

    3.  Blizzard has done xxxxx to wow and the players hate it and are revolting.

    The fact is, WOW is still growing... in the months BEFORE catacylsm, wow reached a new all time high score.

    Servers are still full, there are still queues to even get into some servers on weekends.   Nothing in the next two years is going to put a dent in wow.

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    It's going to happen for every player eventually, even if you just want something new and there's nothing at all wrong with the MMO you're in.

     

    That being said, and I've said before that WoW is a wonderful onramp into MMOs for gamers that are new to the genre. It's extremely (if not nauseatingly) accessible and teaches the core mechanics players are likely to see in MMOs for years and years to come. It also caters to many different playstyles, albeit to a fairly limited degree.

     

    I think a problem that we're seeing is that once players have gotten tired of the WoW merry-go-round there's not really much out there (as fantasy MMOs go) that's deeper- they all seem to be the same ubercasual, shallow fluff. Personally, Rift will work as a holdover game as I await GW2 and World of Darkness.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Azrile

    Servers are still full, there are still queues to even get into some servers on weekends.   Nothing in the next two years is going to put a dent in wow.

    While I agree that there hasn't been shown much decrease in either revenue or sub numbers, this statement reminds me of other famous ones, like that quote of that IBM guy that proclaimed 50 years ago that 'there's only a world market for 5 computers'.

    With MMO's like Rift, GW2, TERA, SWTOR, World of Darkness and Arche Age coming out plus some different flavors as The Secret World, Firefall and Xsyon I very much doubt that 'nothing is going to put a dent' in WoW. But we'll see as 2011 and 2012 progresses image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • praguespragues Member Posts: 161

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Azrile

    Servers are still full, there are still queues to even get into some servers on weekends.   Nothing in the next two years is going to put a dent in wow.

    While I agree that there hasn't been shown much decrease in either revenue or sub numbers, this statement reminds me of other famous ones, like that quote of that IBM guy that proclaimed 50 years ago that 'there's only a world market for 5 computers'.

    With MMO's like Rift, GW2, TERA, SWTOR, World of Darkness and Arche Age coming out plus some different flavors as The Secret World, Firefall and Xsyon I very much doubt that 'nothing is going to put a dent' in WoW. But we'll see as 2011 and 2012 progresses image

    {mod edit}

    I liked the blue "hasn't shown much decrease" too. Apparently going from 1.1 billion in 2009 to 1.4 billion in 2010 to some is "almost decrease". I still remember a few years ago "they will never top those $ 800 million...again".

    Talking about "hope" for the WOW warriors.

    Apparently such threads are never "locked" by the admin guys.

    It should be easy when you see that 2 out of 3 threads created by the warriors are ALL from the same nature.

    Curious :) just as if ONE player will stop playing because he read it on a warrior forum.

     

    Actually, think about active WOW players who enjoy themselves and then see "this" head banging. bah, trivial those 12.000.000 players... ain't it? Everyone just likes to be pissed on.

    Well perhaps it could have an influence, who knows, but I doubt it will be the correct one for the warriors.

  • LatellaLatella Member Posts: 189

    I played WoW ever since the day of it´s release, and now it´s 3 months ( for the very first time ) i no longer play it.

    And no, it´s not because i am "burned" , because i also play Phantasy Star Online ever since 2000,  it´s because the game has changed so much, and it has NOTHING of what it had back when i fell in love with it.

    I am not gonna say they changed to worse because numbers say otherwhise, and it´s obvious for the majority WoW has evolved into something positive, but it´s simply not what i wanted, what i expected, and what it offered me for many years.

    As many said before, i highly miss the first couple years of WoW, when people did things just because and when gear and progression were secondary.

    Furthermore, the game now is full of instant gratification ,neon signs and constant item upgrade and "accomplishement" because the hellcursed facebook crowd needs it in order to have fun and feel like they are "receiving the worth of their monthly fee".

    Nowadays, WoW feels like a facebook game, some sort of "accomplishement chart" that people compete with themselves to fullfill and complete, without caring for anything else.

    I hope when GW2 comes, i can live again the whole "People doing stuff just because it´s happening and its FUn and not to complete the achievements page to brag in guild chat"

    If not....well.... this summer they are testing PHANTASY STAR ONLINE 2.

     

    Rawr.

  • wysongwysong Member Posts: 13

    With Wrath (edit: correction: ICC) *just* now launching in Asian markets, I'm sure WoW will see continued growth - at least for the forseeable future.  I do tend to agree that with the complete re-work of the world, they've streamlined the entire game to the point where the players are funneled like sheep from place to the next.

    For obvious reasons, Blizzard never posts subscription numbers save for the peak accomplishments, but I wouldn't be suprised at all if the US market has sufferred a bit due to WotLK and Cata.  My evidence is purely anecdotal, but having been in a core group of folks that moved from Diablo II into WoW, very few if any remain.

    The point of the post however was not to rabble on about the 'fall of WoW', but more to encourage folks to move on gracefully.  While I left the game, I have a 9yo nephew that just started it - a changing of the guard has occurred and the negativity can only serve to diminish his enjoyment of the game.

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