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[Saddness] Nothing good about Everquest 1 in 2011

EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

I'd like to make it VERY clear for all those who would like to make their own assumptions:

Beginning at Level 1, I found a SINGLE mob to fight, which conned equal to me.

My only ability as a Paladin was Auto-Attack. My only ability as a Bard was a song which I played 24/7.

Death occured when my character would "Miss" too many times. This is entirely something I cannot avoid.

 

 

Leveling speed took 2 hours on my Paladin when I was the only person in the area.

It did not take 2-4 hours to level from 1 to 2 in Everquest when it first released. EQ players inside the game stated this before I agreed with them.

 

So I came back to the Progression server to meet with a large majority of players complaining about why it was taking 4 hours to reach level 2, why they couldn't get the old models on some of the monsters, why paladins don't get Lay on Hands anymore, and how the game is not the same as it was in the 90's.

As a game developer, I wanted to play Everquest1 to gather some ideas, game design, and level design. I was a long time Everquest1 player and some of my fondest memories were in EQ1. I loved the game, and played it for over 2 years from its release.

 

I felt the *magic* was still there, and I loved the old character models. However, the ground textures made me want to vomit, but were acceptable as I wanted the entire "old" school feel. I could not get this, however, because of the forced-new models for a lot of the monsters. Still, not a problem.

After 2 hours on one character to get to level 2, and 4 hours on the second of a different class, I began to face the reality which I tried to ignore, "This game isn't that bad. Let's just keep going." I have never died so many times in any game before. In fact, I am usually quite skilled. However, from level 1 to 2, I died more times than I ever have from levels 1 to 10 in any other MMO. And no, EQ1 was not more challenging. The entire combat at these lower levels is based on a random dice roll of hitting or missing. Bleh.

 

Continuing my gameplay with the characters I created, as well as earlier playing my higher level characters on Prexus shard, I began to see no reason as to why this game was still being played, even though I forced myself to enjoy it. I wanted to love it. I wanted the magic to return (and it did...) but was overshadowed by the overwhelming sensation of archaic design and an ever-changed alteration of what I, as well as many others playing, consider "classic EQ." (see first paragraph above).

 

Honestly, I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way. I want challenge. I want Everquest. I loved it. I hated Planes of Power, just as much as Trammel in UO. Yet, even my desperation to find good in this old classic failed.

I began to ask the community "What do you like about EQ1?" and was met with what I have always found to be the case in "dead" (not really, but considered so) MMORPG communities. DAoC veterans, EQ1 players still around after a decade.

Bitter, anti-social, nasty troll rejects. A personality I find common in "dead" communities of decade old MMO's. The type of people who make you wonder why genocide is not more common in our world (joking...lol...)

 

 

So I lay the magic of Classic Everquest to rest, picking up a new desire and appreciation for Everquest 2, as well as a disappointment and nostalgia that must be put to rest alongside what was only a great game because it was the only thing out there of its kind.

If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

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Comments

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    true there is just not enough rat to kill(or too many killing them)so we end up trying our hand on avail foe outside the city (very bad idea if you solo)i hope eq1 raise the level 1 mob spawn rate!

  • mrshroom89mrshroom89 Member UncommonPosts: 224

    I fail to see the point of this thread...

     

    Your complaining that it took you 4 hours to level... welcome to everquest go back to wow if you want ez mode.  You must have never been apart of a game or server launch if your really complaining about this, newbie zones being overpopulated happens with every release

     

    Zomg you died while going from 1 - 2.... l2p EQ, this isnt wow you cant just grab every mob you see and aoe them down...

     

    You also say "I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way."

    Thats because EQ was made in 99' and since then every game has copied their basic ideals,  Obviously somthing is going to be better when you have the foundation layed infront of you and 5 years to build on it.

     

    C

  • HurvartHurvart Member Posts: 565

    It is different in several ways. And EQ players prefer that. I think a new game could evolve and be based on old EQ... The new games evolved in a way that a lot of players dont like. It was not the only way.

    We need subgenres and games that are different. And learning from EQ is good if you want to create something like that.

    Use things that are lost in todays games. And improve the game and use new ideas.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,054

    You are not a skilled player .You have just been playing easy games .Everquest is hard and you cannot take on more than one mob and even an even con will kill you. Learn that and learn it fast. This game is for people who learnt to pay it the hard way and really took many many knocks and this is why we who played it constantly look for a challenge.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,525

    I'm really not quite sure what you are saying as you keep contradicting yourself. "Things could be better but the magic was there".

    I mean, "the magic" should be fuel enough, no?

    I don't see any issue with taking 4 hours to level especially since that was what it was in that time. Not your words of course but it seems that you want EQ to be a modern day game as opposed to "EQ".

    Players trying this new server should expect "early EQ" for the most part. I don't see the issue with that.

    Honestly, I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way. I want challenge. I want Everquest.

     

    Well you got Everquest.

    Yeah, I'm looking over the post and I see "it's got the magic", "It's not bad" and then some complaint following it. I think you are torn and not clear.

     

     

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  • EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

    Originally posted by mrshroom89

    I fail to see the point of this thread...

     

    Your complaining that it took you 4 hours to level... welcome to everquest go back to wow if you want ez mode. 

    You did fail to see the words of this thread, as I clearly stated it has nothing to do with CHALLENGE. The difficulty of challenge of a video game is not in the time sink required to advance a single level. The game got a lot more fun after level 1, but it still remained with nothing positive to show for such an archaic game. You definitely missed the point entirely.

    You must have never been apart of a game or server launch if your really complaining about this, newbie zones being overpopulated happens with every release

     What are you talking about? I never once mentioned newbie zones being overpopulated. It was like this when I played on Prexus server, alone. I saw ONE person the entire 2 hours it took me to level up my bard. The amount of mobs in the newbie zone is irrelevant to the rate at which one levels via XP gain per kill.

    Also, your assumption is dead wrong. Not only was I a part of Everquest 1 at launch, I played for the first 2 years of its release. I also played Ultima Online very close to its release for 4 years, and was part of DAoC beta testing, as well as beta testing just about every MMO as well as purchasing it at launch. Overpopulated zones is not a complaint of mine. Not at all.

    Zomg you died while going from 1 - 2.... l2p EQ, this isnt wow you cant just grab every mob you see and aoe them down...

     Clearly you didn't read anything I wrote, or used your brain.

    I picked out a single, equal level mob. This is the weakest mob I could find. I had a single ability, Auto-Attack, and nothing else. I approach the mob and attacked it. Sometimes I'd win. Sometimes I'd miss too many times and die. No, I didn't get an error message "You aren't close enough." I just missed. My bard's ability was a song I played 24/7. My paladin didnt have any other ability.

    From this situation, how do you expect me to L2P EQ?

    What could I have possibly done wrong?

    You also say "I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way."

    Thats because EQ was made in 99' and since then every game has copied their basic ideals,  Obviously somthing is going to be better when you have the foundation layed infront of you and 5 years to build on it.

     So you agree with me, despite the fact you just attacked me? Make up your mind please.

    If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

  • EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I'm really not quite sure what you are saying as you keep contradicting yourself. "Things could be better but the magic was there".

    I mean, "the magic" should be fuel enough, no?

    The magic WAS, but every other part of the game took away the magic.

    A game could be very fun and magical, but be so full of flaws,

    I don't see any issue with taking 4 hours to level especially since that was what it was in that time. Not your words of course but it seems that you want EQ to be a modern day game as opposed to "EQ".

    It did NOT take 4 hours to level from Level 1 to Level 2.

    You are entirely incorrect, and clearly didn't play Everquest originally. Everquest gave you the first 5 levels in the first day of playing. Level 1 to 2 were much faster, as many people who play Everquest and enjoy it stated before I agreed with them.

    Players trying this new server should expect "early EQ" for the most part. I don't see the issue with that.

    This is not Early EQ, as I stated in the OP.

    Honestly, I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way. I want challenge. I want Everquest.

     

    Well you got Everquest.

    Exactly...

    Yeah, I'm looking over the post and I see "it's got the magic", "It's not bad" and then some complaint following it. I think you are torn and not clear.

     

     

    If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

  • EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

    Originally posted by kitarad

    You are not a skilled player .You have just been playing easy games .Everquest is hard and you cannot take on more than one mob and even an even con will kill you.

    I only took one mob at time, at an even con. I have no idea why you would assume I did otherwise.

    Learn that and learn it fast. This game is for people who learnt to pay it the hard way and really took many many knocks and this is why we who played it constantly look for a challenge.

    Learn what? That I should do more than sit there fighting ONE equal level mob using auto-attack, my ONLY ability???

     

    Where is the challenge in this?

    If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    I logged in for a whole 10 minutes last night (I am no authority on the subject), and while I made the mistake of starting my first character from Paineel (can see that place driving away subscribers back in the day O.o), I can still sorta see with the OP is talking about.  Yes, it was old school EQ.  Yes, there were 30+ people in even one of the more unpopular newbie areas (could only imagine West Freeport or Gfay).

    The problem is that for a lot of people, myself included, I'm not sure if classic EQ is "really" what they thought they wanted.  The graphics are weak, and the current client runs badly.  The leveling is painfully slow, and combat for some classes as early as level 1 is a life and death affair.

    This is just a case of players seeing a gameworld through rose colored glasses.  Yes, if I was back in 8th grade with hours and hours of time to devote to my level 2 Erudite Necromancer, I would love to play, but I don't have that much time, and as a result, I find classic EQ1 to be archaic, time consuming, and nearly unplayable after coming from much newer MMORPGs.

  • EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    I logged in for a whole 10 minutes last night (I am no authority on the subject), and while I made the mistake of starting my first character from Paineel (can see that place driving away subscribers back in the day O.o), I can still sorta see with the OP is talking about.  Yes, it was old school EQ.  Yes, there were 30+ people in even one of the more unpopular newbie areas (could only imagine West Freeport or Gfay).

    The problem is that for a lot of people, myself included, I'm not sure if classic EQ is "really" what they thought they wanted.  The graphics are weak, and the current client runs badly.  The leveling is painfully slow, and combat for some classes as early as level 1 is a life and death affair.

    This is just a case of players seeing a gameworld through rose colored glasses.  Yes, if I was back in 8th grade with hours and hours of time to devote to my level 2 Erudite Necromancer, I would love to play, but I don't have that much time, and as a result, I find classic EQ1 to be archaic, time consuming, and nearly unplayable after coming from much newer MMORPGs.

    Thank you, you are the first to actually put thought into this and think beyond rash assumptions to actually understand what I am discussing.

    If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,525

    Originally posted by Emergence

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I'm really not quite sure what you are saying as you keep contradicting yourself. "Things could be better but the magic was there".

    I mean, "the magic" should be fuel enough, no?

    The magic WAS, but every other part of the game took away the magic.

    A game could be very fun and magical, but be so full of flaws,

    I don't see any issue with taking 4 hours to level especially since that was what it was in that time. Not your words of course but it seems that you want EQ to be a modern day game as opposed to "EQ".

    It did NOT take 4 hours to level from Level 1 to Level 2.

    You are entirely incorrect, and clearly didn't play Everquest originally. Everquest gave you the first 5 levels in the first day of playing. Level 1 to 2 were much faster, as many people who play Everquest and enjoy it stated before I agreed with them.

    Players trying this new server should expect "early EQ" for the most part. I don't see the issue with that.

    This is not Early EQ, as I stated in the OP.

    Honestly, I couldn't find a single good thing about Everquest that also was not in other MMORPG's in a better way. I want challenge. I want Everquest.

     

    Well you got Everquest.

    Exactly...

    Yeah, I'm looking over the post and I see "it's got the magic", "It's not bad" and then some complaint following it. I think you are torn and not clear.

     

     

    Well, I got that from this:

    After 2 hours on one character to get to level 2, and 4 hours on the second of a different class,

    You didn't stipulate that this progression was out of the ordinary.

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  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    Excellent post OP.  I completely agree.  I had gone into the game yesterday as a complete EQ noob and was blown away by how "old" the game truly felt.  NOt the graphics or sound, those are bad but understandable.  But like you mentioned, the dying a million times just at level 1, the archaic controls, dying while swimming because space bar doesn't make me go up, or even angling the camera up and pushing W to go forward.  No right clicking on things to interact, no hovering over spells/abilities to see what they do.

    And then I went and asked the community a million questions on what to do how to do it and why I had to do it this way and that.  I got the most horrible responses and "go back to WoW, kid" replies and nasty namecalling.  I truly felt the community was worse than even what I experience in WoW.  

    Granted, I know this is how the game was in 1999 but frankly, it hasn't aged well.  Those mechanics don't work these days.  It's akin to using MP3s compared to using records and 8 tracks.  There is a reason those things are obsolete and pointless to use now.

    I'll close with saying thank you EQ for helping the industry move along and for giving the genre such horrible tedious timesink mechanics so that other companies were able to take the same ideas and improve them.

  • quasar941quasar941 Member Posts: 159

    Yes, excellent post OP. You summed up my own experience with the progression server perfectly.

  • EmergenceEmergence Member Posts: 888

    Phew, thank you guys. I thought I would just get toasted from EQ fanbois (the first few ppl just told me to "GO BACK TO WOW THIS ISNT EZ MODE!" but obviously didn't read the OP fully.

     

    It seems like anyone who has also joined the progression servers feels this way. Those who flamed me probably have not yet went back to try out the new server.

     

    I wanted to like it... I really, really did... but honestly...

     

    EQ2 and Vanguard are amazing compared to this. In fact, I miss both of those games because of this experience...

    If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,054

    You had the wrong expectations going in. The server is for people who want to experience the game as it was in 1999. Obviously those of you who are getting a terrible shock about what the game including the controls are not interested in that. Those of you who never experienced even worse cannot get it at all why we want to go back to 1999. 

     

    Swimming is page up and down why did you not check the keyboard controls. Was it that hard for you to check that out ? Want that to be spoonfed to you like everything else. Read check . Did you by any chance question why the controls were such. This was probably to emulate what they were like in 1999. I think if you point your mouse upwards it works in the newer servers,not sure did'nt swim yet.Not excusable behaviour but if you started asking questions about why a control is like this and not that you might get some hostility. I am not condoning it though but the vets can get testy .

     

    Those of you who do not get what this server means will just not get it. All your complaints are valid but they are not what this server is about. There was room for 2,000 people on that server. Think about that and what a tiny tiny part of the MMORPG population that is. You are obviously not the target audience if this is your reaction and those who never even experienced Everquest before even less so because of everything you have written here.

     

    Get over it and move on and do not feel you have to analise this and explain it because there is no shame in not understanding. This server was meant for a very select group of players who wanted this and asked for it and clamoured for it and got it.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    like i say when you start you are supposed to kill stuff in the city .but there are so many player that you just cant!exemple rat in general are rare and spawn rate is awfull!it has nothing to do with game being hard!it is just a lvl 1 flaw.after that everything is cool!i bet soe hasnt had this many people in start area in decade.i wish soe would add lvl one spawn !

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    If i recall correctly, i think the hell levels were changed to be more like regular levels and the remaining experience was spread out across the rest of the levels.  Which might explain why it felt like it took longer to get to level 2.

    If you tried to play yesterday the common notion was to group up with others.  I started in akanon/steamfont yesterday, in one day i managed to get to level 14 (granted i moved onto places like unrest, but thats natural)

    Now one day consists of about 12 hours but there ya go.

    Yes the leveling is slow in EQ, most likely slower now then it was at lauch but then again you don't have the hell levels which slow you down at later levels. So whichever, will take you the same amount of time either way.

     

    As for the killing the even mobs at lower levels.  Most of your attacks are based off of skills, such as 1hs/offensive/defensive.  If these skills are weak, as in not many points into them or not trained.  An even level creature will beat you.  That was normal of EQ1 for a rat to kill you because you would typically miss miss miss miss miss You hit a rat for 3 points of damage, miss miss miss miss you hit a rat for 2 points of damage.  This happened a lot while you were young.  Skill ups are based on your stats as well.  i think it's wis or int, whichever one is higher.

    As for the comments in the community? well the EQ community is smashed in with the same ones that are freebies so no idea.  I saw a lot of positive feedback, except when the game got compared to wow, then it exploded but then that happens with any game really.

    If you want help in game and are on fippy, just send me a tell (it's whilan in game as well) and i'l give you all the pointers i can.

     

    Edit: Just so you know, i'm a gnome warrior (potentionally the worse race a warrior can be and i made it to level 14 yesterday, is all i'm saying)

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • neceoneceo Member Posts: 22

    someone really compared it to WoW?  hahahah

  • grratchgrratch Member Posts: 49

    I have not played Everquest since 2004 and me and my brother started the progression server yesterday. I have to say that it sounds like your experience sucked, but it sounds like it sucked for a very specific reason. You did not group.

    Yes, they slowed down the xp a lot but that was so that people could not race to 50 as fast as they did the last progression server. But if you had understood that these monsters were hard, why did you not find other people to play or group with? You got the response "go back to wow you idiot" because many classes are not able to solo in this game and you must rely on others where you are deficient. Me and my brother grouped up with 4 other people right away and we were busy killing all even and yellow cons in our path. It was a very enjoyable time with small talk and everyone was enjoyable to play with. We were even able to take on the ocassional red. I had a blast and we were able to hit lvl 6 in about 5 hours.

     

    If you are having troubles on the progression server and would like to truly experience it here are some tips:

    - Group up with others. You will kill things faster and more efficiently and you are not penalized harshly as in newer games if you get a group of 5 or 6 together.

    - Use your training skills. Did you put more points into your 1h slash on your palidan? Maybe more points in your offense? Your skill levels are awful and even 5 skill points can mean a huge difference in how often you hit or miss that horrible little rat.

    - Changing weapons requires new proficiencies in new weapon skills. That rusty 2hander sure does a lot of damage, but only if you have the skill up as high as you can make it.

     

    Hopefully this will help you enjoy the experience.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,054

    One thing I cannot understand is how could you have forgotten dying to rats. Your skills are zero you can only not miss after you get the skill up. That can only happen after you managed to hit the rat a few times. There is no auto levelling of skills so yes you will die to the rat. If you played Everquest before how could you have forgotten this ?

     

    The other thing about swimming before you get on a boat you had better get your swim up because I lost my corpse once in the Ocean of Tears and died several times trying to get it back. I maxed out my swimming on that nightmare recovery.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    whilan on average there are no rat to kill you have to go kill higher level mob!rat or whatever level 1 mob are cannot keep up with the amount of player! lol

  • NightAngellNightAngell Member Posts: 566

    If you are willing to give old school EQ1 a shot then you might as well play Vanguard. I played EQ1 for six years and i have played Vanguard for nearly 4 years. 

    I logged into EQ1 last night and within 2 hours i really said to myself "do i really need this when i can play a modern game like Vanguard" .

    I really wish players would actually give the game a second chance.

  • grratchgrratch Member Posts: 49

    If vanguard were to have a rerelease with a new server and no tutorial zone like everquest is doign with the progression server I would totally give it a try. The tutorial zone killed it for me though and the fact that it is known the game is "dead" ;(

  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437

    It's not Everquest 1 or EQ1, it's just Everquest or EQ, it is unique.  You have EQ and EQ2 (a joke)

     

    BTW EQ does no longer exist. It died in 2002.

  • DaitenguDaitengu Member Posts: 442

    Originally posted by kitarad

    You had the wrong expectations going in. The server is for people who want to experience the game as it was in 1999. Obviously those of you who are getting a terrible shock about what the game including the controls are not interested in that. Those of you who never experienced even worse cannot get it at all why we want to go back to 1999. 

     

    Swimming is page up and down why did you not check the keyboard controls. Was it that hard for you to check that out ? Want that to be spoonfed to you like everything else. Read check . Did you by any chance question why the controls were such. This was probably to emulate what they were like in 1999. I think if you point your mouse upwards it works in the newer servers,not sure did'nt swim yet.Not excusable behaviour but if you started asking questions about why a control is like this and not that you might get some hostility. I am not condoning it though but the vets can get testy .

     

    Those of you who do not get what this server means will just not get it. All your complaints are valid but they are not what this server is about. There was room for 2,000 people on that server. Think about that and what a tiny tiny part of the MMORPG population that is. You are obviously not the target audience if this is your reaction and those who never even experienced Everquest before even less so because of everything you have written here.

     

    Get over it and move on and do not feel you have to analise this and explain it because there is no shame in not understanding. This server was meant for a very select group of players who wanted this and asked for it and clamoured for it and got it.

     

    Your post reminds me that I had to have the EQ keyboard map on my desk for about 3 months till I got the controls down when I first started lol

     

    I also remember getting my direction sense up and using the world map included with the game so I could explore without getting too lost. EQ before map mods was definately scary. Falling into The Hole sucked at 20 lol. I was thanking God that a high level rogue pitied me enough to get my corpse lol

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